Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

wp_rathead · 24-11-2015 6:52pm

Be even better without:
LIFE
STYLE
SPORTS

b.gud · 24-11-2015 6:55pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

Be even better without:
LIFE
STYLE
SPORTS

How did you get hold of their design assets? :eek:

typhoony · 24-11-2015 7:29pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

Be even better without:
LIFE
STYLE
SPORTS

it must have taken you hours to replicate the Font and design:D:D:D

ClanofLams · 24-11-2015 7:47pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Splitting hairs I'd suggest.

Either way I can't see any possibility of Henshaw playing for Connacht next season.

Tisn't splitting hairs at all. Henshaw is in complete control of where he plays. Of course the IRFU/Joe Schmidt can have a word and it might be persuasive but at the end of the day it's Henshaw's call as to where his future lies.

"I've decided to stick with Connacht"

"I'm afraid that not's on the table Robbie, it's Leinster only"

"Right let me just give my rep a call and see if one of the other 20 clubs interested might like a chat"

"Actually you can stay with Connacht, no worries!"

I think Leinster are favourites but it's not as easy a decision as people are making out. He's settled at Connacht obviously and it's an exciting time to be at the province whereas the glory days at Leinster are over for the next few years anyway. Before anyone reacts, I mean that in comparison to winning three heinekens in four years. Realistically the Champions Cup is set for a long stay in France with maybe the odd visit to England.

With or without Henshaw, it's very difficult to see Leinster winning the Champions cup in the next 3-4 years. Of course they'll still be leading contenders for the Pro12 but with the track record of success Leinster have had that isn't exactly gonna be historybook stuff for them.

thomond2006 · 24-11-2015 8:27pm

It would be pretty damaging to Connacht to lose Henshaw. At least Mike McCarthy was coming to the end of his career and Connacht eventually got a replacement in Quinn Roux. Having a young and homegrown starting international is a boost on and off the field. I would love to see a long term deal for Henshaw, say 4 years, and for fairness' sake give him a release clause after 2 years that he can leave Connacht if they fail to qualify for Europe. All the other provinces would benefit if Henshaw signed but they don't need Henshaw like Connacht do. IMO it's time to really back Connacht to make the Champions Cup in the next season or two. Even compensating Connacht with cash to sign a top quality star wouldn't heal the wound. Imagine if something similar happened to Keith Earls and Munster back in 2009 or Conor Murray in 2012.

former total · 24-11-2015 8:41pm

b.gud wrote: »

We also need to look outside of Ireland for a minute and ask ourselves are players like Warburton, Tuilagi, Faletau and Hidalgo-Clyne who are all playing in the challenge cup going to be limited by it.

Tuilagi?

Faletau is also bailing on his home province so not sure he's a great role model for your argument.

Warburton has played loads of rugby at Champions level and beyond.

Hidalgo-Clyne? Meh, he's not really in the same league as the others.

But it's totally unknowable. He's doing fine by playing with Connacht, but would he be better if he moved? Very possibly, maybe it would make no odds, no one knows. I'll bet the IRFU want him playing more regularly with international standard players though.

wp_rathead · 24-11-2015 9:07pm

former total wrote: »

Warburton has played loads of rugby at Champions level and beyond.

Warburtion (27) has 16 Starts and 4 Sub Appearances in the European Cup
Henshaw (22) has 12 Starts and 1 Sub Appearances in it
Don't see the Welsh saying he should move..
..and it certainly hasn't hindered his development

former total wrote: »

But it's totally unknowable. He's doing fine by playing with Connacht, but would he be better if he moved? Very possibly, maybe it would make no odds, no one knows. I'll bet the IRFU want him playing more regularly with international standard players though.

I'd imagine IRFU are happy where he is- they have invested decent amount in the Connacht academy and he is the shining light of it..
But like has been said - it is professional sport and is his call where he goes when his contract is up..
Which kind of makes things worse - if he leaves it is because he feels Connacht aren't matching his ambition.. (although the narrative in some of the press is rather frustrating at times in regards him moving)

Henry Ford III · 24-11-2015 9:17pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Tisn't splitting hairs at all. Henshaw is in complete control of where he plays...

I can't agree.

Nucifora has a massive degree of control in all this assuming Henshaw wants to stay contracted to the IRFU.

He has to approve all central contracts, renewal of IRFU/provincial contracts, and the recruitment of niq players for all the provinces. He recently (and probably unwisely) didn't allow Munster to sign Stepehn Moore for example.

If he decides that Henshaw must play regular CC rugby, and I'm told that he has, then the choice is narrowed, and Connacht are no longer an option.

porterbelly · 24-11-2015 9:22pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I can't agree.

Nucifora has a massive degree of control in all this assuming Henshaw wants to stay contracted to the IRFU.

He has to approve all central contracts, renewal of IRFU/provincial contracts, and the recruitment of niq players for all the provinces. He recently (and probably unwisely) didn't allow Munster to sign Stepehn Moore for example.

If he decides that Henshaw must play regular CC rugby, and I'm told that he has, then the choice is narrowed, and Connacht are no longer an option.

I agree

I don't think he'd be offered the same central contract to stay in Connacht as to move to Leinster financially wise. It's ludicrous and unfair but that's the balance of power.

Hagz · 24-11-2015 9:23pm

I don't see how they can force him to play for a province he doesn't want to play for other than preventing Connacht from re-signing him. In which case he can always jet off to France or England. Seems unlikely that they would use such a tactic.

Henry Ford III · 24-11-2015 9:31pm

Hagz wrote: »

I don't see how they can force him to play for a province he doesn't want to play for other than preventing Connacht from re-signing him. In which case he can always jet off to France or England. Seems unlikely that they would use such a tactic.

He'd still have a choice of 3 theoretically. In reality however it's probably 2.

ClanofLams · 24-11-2015 9:44pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

He'd still have a choice of 3 theoretically. In reality however it's probably 2.

In reality it would be one, if he moves to another province it will be Leinster.

However posters are dramatically under estimating the power Henshaw and his team have, if he wants to stay at Connacht he will. He has all the bargaining power even if he has admitted he would be reluctant to go to France at this stage, the threat alone is enough.

Imagine the PR disaster the IRFU would have if Henshaw moved to England and did an interview afterwards stating he would have been happy to remain at Connacht but was being pressured otherwise.

It's an entirely different situation than Stephen Moore, where there is a reasonable argument ( albeit not one I agree with) that he would have been blocking the pathway of Casey & co.

ClanofLams · 24-11-2015 9:54pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I can't agree.

Nucifora has a massive degree of control in all this assuming Henshaw wants to stay contracted to the IRFU.

He has to approve all central contracts, renewal of IRFU/provincial contracts, and the recruitment of niq players for all the provinces. He recently (and probably unwisely) didn't allow Munster to sign Stepehn Moore for example.

If he decides that Henshaw must play regular CC rugby, and I'm told that he has, then the choice is narrowed, and Connacht are no longer an option.

Also Henry you posted last April that you had been told he was off so you'll have to excuse me if I take your above post with a grain of salt.

Henry Ford III · 24-11-2015 10:28pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Also Henry you posted last April that you had been told he was off so you'll have to excuse me if I take your above post with a grain of salt.

Please do. I hear a few titbits from time to time. Not all of them are correct.

GDSGR8 · 25-11-2015 12:01am

He mightn't be playing 'cc' if he moves to Leinster next season.

CatFromHue · 25-11-2015 12:23am

ClanofLams wrote: »

In reality it would be one, if he moves to another province it will be Leinster.

I'm not so sure, Munster's centre depth isn't that deep and prob shallower than Leinster's.

I'd say Foley would be very interested in Henshaw.

former total · 25-11-2015 12:38am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not so sure, Munster's centre depth isn't that deep and prob shallower than Leinster's.

I'd say Foley would be very interested in Henshaw.

Munster currently 12/1 to be his new club. Fill your boots!

(Leinster 1/9)

ClanofLams · 25-11-2015 1:07am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I'm not so sure, Munster's centre depth isn't that deep and prob shallower than Leinster's.

I'd say Foley would be very interested in Henshaw.

I'd imagine he is but I don't think Henshaw is too interested in them and despite what some people believe the IRFU can't dictate where Henshaw plays.

former total wrote: »

Munster currently 12/1 to be his new club. Fill your boots!

(Leinster 1/9)

It's a pity that market is on his next club, would have been interesting to see what price they gave on him being at Connacht next season.

Robbo · 25-11-2015 11:57am

2 year contract extension for Marmion. ****ing yes.

S12b · 25-11-2015 11:58am

Marmion extends contract until 2018!

MarinersBlues · 25-11-2015 12:09pm

It's great to see players staying, and Marmion is important for us, but I wouldn't have been terribly upset if he had left.

We have loads of depth at scrum half but can be found short in the centre.

Leinster are going to be short on scrum halves very shortly, but have plenty of centres.

It can't make much sense to leave Marmion and move Henshaw.

The next few weeks are going to be very telling.
Whatever happens I hope there is a cohesive plan for both developing and strengthening the national team and ALL provinces (yep, even the other three).
I do get the feeling it is an important round of contract deals for Ireland as a whole.

typhoony · 25-11-2015 12:21pm

the strange thing is even though Henshaw is Quality if you asked me which player leaving would leave a bigger hole then I probably would have gone with Marmion.

Lets face it we have plenty of options in the backline.

connachta · 25-11-2015 12:23pm

As expected, or pretty much
Roux back for Cardiff
Marshall is the only uncertainty of the pack if he recovers, competing with Dillane/Muldowney/SOB 2.0
Healy's back!!!!!!!

www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pat-lam-p...t&utm_medium=twitter

Lam gave an updated medical briefing after the “big physical game” against Brive last Saturday. They are awaiting the outcome of a scan on Kiwi openside Nepia Fox Matamua and whether, as feared, he suffered an anterior cruciate ligament or a medial collateral ligament injury. If the former, he’s liable to miss six or eight months, whereas with the latter it would be six or eight weeks.

Scrumhalf John Cooney will be sidelined for three months after shoulder surgery, Fionn Carr (calf) is out for three to four weeks and Danie Poolman is still rehabbing his hamstring. Eoin McKeon and Ben Marshall, as well as Dave McSharry from the Connacht Eagles game, sustained concussion and are undergoing the return to play protocols.

Andrew Browne (lacerated hand) will miss the Munster game but along with Quinn Roux should return for the game away to Cardiff on Friday week, while winger Matt Healy is available again.

“Obviously, it’s not ideal,” admitted Lam. “You want a full complement to select from, but the thing that I’m pleased with is the way that we have trained as a squad.”

Citing the way James Connolly and Eoghan Masterson have filled the void left by the long-term injuries to Jake Heenan and now Fox-Matamua as examples of their improved academy production line, Lam maintained: “As long as guys are performing it makes things much easier.”

former total · 25-11-2015 12:39pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

I'd imagine he is but I don't think Henshaw is too interested in them and despite what some people believe the IRFU can't dictate where Henshaw plays.

I don't think anyone believes that. Not on this forum anyway.

ClanofLams wrote: »

It's a pity that market is on his next club, would have been interesting to see what price they gave on him being at Connacht next season.

All bets void if he stays at Connacht, so it's hard to call, but yeah it would be good to know how the bookies see it.

If I was throwing out probabilities, I'd say it's 70-30 he'll move on.

wp_rathead · 25-11-2015 12:57pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

It's great to see players staying, and Marmion is important for us, but I wouldn't have been terribly upset if he had left.

We have loads of depth at scrum half but can be found short in the centre.

Leinster are going to be short on scrum halves very shortly, but have plenty of centres.

It can't make much sense to leave Marmion and move Henshaw.

The next few weeks are going to be very telling.
Whatever happens I hope there is a cohesive plan for both developing and strengthening the national team and ALL provinces (yep, even the other three).
I do get the feeling it is an important round of contract deals for Ireland as a whole.

I actually disagree and think Marmion staying is massive
Cooney will probably move back East after his contract is up I feel
With Henshaw being out we have seen that we have quality young centre's in our squad- Parata been a bit of a revelation for us

MarinersBlues · 25-11-2015 1:04pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

I actually disagree and think Marmion staying is massive
Cooney will probably move back East after his contract is up I feel

I suppose it was always going to be between Cooney and Marmion for Leinster in the long run.

The difference between Parata/Robb etc and Henshaw in terms of current and potential ability is greater than Blade and Marmion IMO.

Although, they all do look very exciting.

typhoony · 25-11-2015 1:18pm

MarinersBlues wrote: »

I suppose it was always going to be between Cooney and Marmion for Leinster in the long run.

The difference between Parata/Robb etc and Henshaw in terms of current and potential ability is greater than Blade and Marmion IMO.

Although, they all do look very exciting.

the question should be is the difference between Ronaldson\McSharry\Aki and Henshaw greater than the difference between Cooney\Porter\Blade and Marmion

no in my opinion in the centres we are ok but at scrum-half Marmion brings much more than his replacements, admittedley he had a dip in form at the end of last season but is back to his best again this season

wp_rathead · 25-11-2015 1:34pm

Afaik these are the guys who's contract end in 2016 :
Tiernan O'Halloran
Matt Healy
Jake Hennan
John Muldoon
Aly Muldowney
Dave Heffernan
Jason Harris Wright
Rodney Ah You
JP Cooney
Danny Qualter
Andrew Browne
George Naoupu
Ian Porter
John Cooney
Craig Ronaldson
Shane O'Leary
Robbie Henshaw

Year 3 Academy :
James Connolly
James Dever
Saba Meunargia
Rory Moloney
Sean O'brien
Rory Parata
Jacob Walshe

Bazzo · 25-11-2015 1:58pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

Afaik these are the guys who's contract end in 2016 :
Tiernan O'Halloran
Matt Healy
Jake Hennan
John Muldoon
Aly Muldowney
Dave Heffernan
Jason Harris Wright
Rodney Ah You
JP Cooney
Danny Qualter
Andrew Browne
George Naoupu
Ian Porter
John Cooney
Craig Ronaldson
Shane O'Leary
Robbie Henshaw

Year 3 Academy :
James Connolly
James Dever
Saba Meunargia
Rory Moloney
Sean O'brien
Rory Parata
Jacob Walshe

Jesus that is a big list and I'd be hoping we'd hold on to most(if not all!) of those players.

connachta · 25-11-2015 3:16pm

Afaik these are the guys who's contract end in 2016 :
Tiernan O'Halloran
Matt Healy
Jake Hennan
John Muldoon
Aly Muldowney
Dave Heffernan
Jason Harris Wright
Rodney Ah You
JP Cooney
Danny Qualter
Andrew Browne
George Naoupu
Ian Porter
John Cooney
Craig Ronaldson
Shane O'Leary
Robbie Henshaw

Year 3 Academy :
James Connolly
James Dever
Saba Meunargia
Rory Moloney
Sean O'brien
Rory Parata
Jacob Walshe

John Muldoon
JP Cooney
Danny Qualter
George Naoupu
Shane O'Leary
1 academy prop
are the only ones we COULD possibly release (I don't say we have to or we will)
the rest should ABSOLUTELY re-sign

ClanofLams · 25-11-2015 3:34pm

Muldoon is still playing very good rugby and has at the very least one season left in him. Madness to suggest releasing him.

Marmion renewal is massive for Connacht. At 23 he still has huge scope for improvement. I expect him to be a regular feature in the match day 23 going forward for Ireland however so need quality back ups.

connachta · 25-11-2015 4:06pm

ClanofLams wrote: »

Muldoon is still playing very good rugby and has at the very least one season left in him. Madness to suggest releasing him.

Marmion renewal is massive for Connacht. At 23 he still has huge scope for improvement. I expect him to be a regular feature in the match day 23 going forward for Ireland however so need quality back ups.

I insisted on the fact i've never said we SHOULD release Muldoon. But we could, with Masterson + Marshall + Browne + Muldowney + Dillane + SOB 2.0 all able to play blindside flanker. No more in my list than possibilities, I didn't judge opportunities

Evil_g · 25-11-2015 4:08pm

Speculating about who could lose their job is crass.

ClanofLams · 25-11-2015 4:24pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Speculating about who could lose their job is crass.

I agree it's distasteful so I'll finish with saying that Muldoon is captain and first choice 6 for a reason. He will be at Connacht next season. None of the players Connachta named are better than Muldoon at 6, McKeon and Masterson are good backups but both best at 8.

connachta · 25-11-2015 4:25pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Speculating about who could lose their job is crass.

That's not what I did, I just targeted the positions where Connacht is better filled. + some of the released guys can find another club, that's all we wish to them each year

Evil_g · 25-11-2015 4:30pm

connachta wrote: »

That's not what I did, I just targeted the positions where Connacht is better filled. + some of the released guys can find another club, that's all we wish to them each year

It's precisely what you did.

Hagz · 25-11-2015 4:34pm

Speculating who might be released in professional sport isn't crass. Get a grip.

connachta · 25-11-2015 4:35pm

Evil_g wrote: »

It's precisely what you did.

Oh FFS, I didn't intend to be disrespectful for whoever, and you know it.

errlloyd · 25-11-2015 4:39pm

Hagz wrote: »

Speculating who might be released in professional sport isn't crass. Get a grip.

Moneyball has a great scene where Brad Pitt gets Jonah Hill to drop someone and effectively this is what it comes to.

ClanofLams · 25-11-2015 4:42pm

Hagz wrote: »

Speculating who might be released in professional sport isn't crass. Get a grip.

I would agree that's it unnecessary (I'm sure some players browse these boards too and it's not exactly a nice thing to see) but Connachta wasn't being disrespectful, no need to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Evil_g · 25-11-2015 4:42pm

Hagz wrote: »

Speculating who might be released in professional sport isn't crass. Get a grip.

I doubt if any of the players he named are earning even six figures. We're not talking about people who live in gated mansions and collect sports cars.

S12b · 25-11-2015 4:56pm

Evil_g wrote: »

Speculating about who could lose their job is crass.

Hagz wrote: »

Speculating who might be released in professional sport isn't crass. Get a grip.

Exactly, it's professional sport.....there are limited spaces in a squad and if players are not good enough, they will be released. That's not crass, it's reality. The original poster took no glee in suggesting these players would be released or was not malicious in any way......come off your high horse a mac.

I do however disagree with the original poster when he said we could release Muldoon. A player should only be released if there better players in his position, not simply because he's 30+ and there's a few lads who can play his position. Plus back row is a very tough position, we need all the depth possible there.

connachta · 25-11-2015 5:11pm

S12b wrote: »

Exactly, it's professional sport.....there are limited spaces in a squad and if players are not good enough, they will be released. That's not crass, it's reality. The original poster took no glee in suggesting these players would be released or was not malicious in any way......come off your high horse a mac.

I do however disagree with the original poster when he said we could release Muldoon. A player should only be released if there better players in his position, not simply because he's 30+ and there's a few lads who can play his position. Plus back row is a very tough position, we need all the depth possible there.

I'm the original poster. Yes I get your point about Muldoon. That's why i've made the distinction between Should and Could release him. We could because a lot of guys may break through as 6, but we should keep him because it's uncertain and he's a decent player. All in all, it entirely depends on our European qualification. We'll be able (or not) to have a wider/more expensive squad

flouncer · 25-11-2015 7:23pm

S12b wrote: »

Marmion extends contract until 2018!

I'm honestly surprised and also delighted by this. With reddan and boss heading towards retirement I really see a fantastic future for kieran and I assumed that would be at Leinster. If you read all the media articles about Robbie, the common trend is the need for sexton and Robbie to play more game time together. If the logic of this is true then it makes 10 times more sense for kieran to be playing on the same team as sexton. So that argument does not hold true. Its a real boost for Connacht and also is a statement by a player who has every right to believe he has a huge international future in front of him, that he will achieve that success at Connacht. I would like Robbie to do likewise. I do think if Connacht beat Munster at the weekend he does have a bit of a head scratcher to deal with. I would love him to stay. He could even bide his time and take a further one year extension with Connacht to see how things play out. Is it the norm to have so many players up for contract renewal at this point of the season? This could be a worry when you hear mention of madigan being offered 500,000 a year in england. I would say many of the listed players earn less than a 1/4 of that sum. I do expect cooney to return to Leinster now that marmion is staying. Leinster need the cover. Really looking forward to seeing the green lantern outfit on Saturday. Its a strange thing but things like that really lift the players and the team as a whole never mind the fans. We are now invincible :-)

flouncer · 26-11-2015 2:54am

My list of different combinations for the weekend. Let's go with 1 to 8 as there are no combinations. Buckley, delahunt, white, muldowney, dillane, Muldoon (c), connolly, Masterson. So then it gets interesting.

Back line 1: marmion, jack, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh predictable lineup
Back line 2: marmion, ronaldson, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh preferred lineup
Back line 3: marmion, aj, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh, interesting lineup
Back line 4: marmion, aj, Healy, ronaldson, aki, toh, henshaw adventurous lineup

Looking forward to this call.

Sorry connachta, no matter the choice it is niyi/parata/ronaldson backup so no space for darragh as I see it.

connachta · 26-11-2015 9:53am

flouncer wrote: »

My list of different combinations for the weekend. Let's go with 1 to 8 as there are no combinations. Buckley, delahunt, white, muldowney, dillane, Muldoon (c), connolly, Masterson. So then it gets interesting.

Back line 1: marmion, jack, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh predictable lineup
Back line 2: marmion, ronaldson, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh preferred lineup
Back line 3: marmion, aj, Healy, henshaw, aki, parata, toh, interesting lineup
Back line 4: marmion, aj, Healy, ronaldson, aki, toh, henshaw adventurous lineup

Looking forward to this call.

Sorry connachta, no matter the choice it is niyi/parata/ronaldson backup so no space for darragh as I see it.

COM-PLE-TLY disagree 1) Heff and JHW above Delahunt 2) Masterson ahead of Connolly and Naoupu/McKeon (if fit) as n°8 3) Of Course Leader will play fullback, with Healy 11 and TOH 14

Utopia Parkway · 26-11-2015 2:20pm

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/off-the-ball-henshaw-moving-east-could-be-a-real-winwin-34231869.html

Just had a laugh reading this from the Indo yesterday. Apparently Connacht will be winners if they lose Henshaw to Leinster.

Also don't understand this logic of let him to to Leinster so he can "build his relationship" with Sexton. Sexton is 30. Robbie is 22. Sexton is very possibly already on the downward slope of his career and highly unlikely he'll be Ireland's 10 by the time the next World Cup comes around. Don't see this as a vaild reason to move at all.

Zzippy · 26-11-2015 2:27pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/off-the-ball-henshaw-moving-east-could-be-a-real-winwin-34231869.html

Just had a laugh reading this from the Indo yesterday. Apparently Connacht will be winners if they lose Henshaw to Leinster.

Ger Gilroy hasn't a clue about rugby. And it's the Indo... 'nuff said!

its_phil · 26-11-2015 2:40pm

Zzippy wrote: »

Ger Gilroy hasn't a clue about rugby. And it's the Indo... 'nuff said!

Really poor stuff. Off The Ball coverage of rugby is usually good but only when it comes to Munster, Ulster and Ireland. Go outside that and it really is token novelty stuff.

Joe Molloy last night saying Connacht were given money to go sign Aki and Heenan as a means to offset the inevitable departure of Henshaw. Really poor stuff, especially considering Heenan wasn't a big name signing, just a big signing. Lam spotted him much like Nepia-Fox. Thornley was quite good though, but didn't understand Toland points on how it should be a two way road between Leinster and Connacht in terms of player traffic.

Cronin, Carr, McCarthy, Henshaw, Kearney for Carr, Cooney, Marshall, White, Roux isn't exactly screaming one way traffic. Refuse to count McSharry, Ronaldson, Healy, JHW on the basis they were all signed from elsewhere.

ClanofLams · 26-11-2015 2:45pm

I liked Rob Murphy's (Galway Bay Fm/craggy island rugby podcast) on it.

"I'm always a little skeptical when I read articles suggesting what is best for Connacht penned by people I never see at the Sportsground."

Connacht Rugby Thread - Part III - The Violence of the Lams

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