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Nest Thermostat Question

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  • 08-04-2020 9:54am
    #1
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭


    I am currently looking at moving over to Electric Ireland for dual fuel and they have a promotion at the moment for a Nest thermostat for €130.

    In terms of the house, its a small 3 bedroom semi so is there a need for zoning? Or would it be worthless just using the Nest to essentially turn the heating on and off etc. Or are the other features that are beneficial?

    Thanks in advance


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    #2
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Sure that's the purpose of it! To turn the heating on and off. The joys of the nest is that it "learns" what temperature you like your house at at certain times and it makes the adjustments automatically. If you just want to turn the heating on and and off then you're probably better off with a climote.


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    #3
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Main benefit is that it keeps the heating off if the house is empty as opposed to regular timers that will have it on if you end up going away or staying out longer.


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    #4
    T-b0n3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭T-b0n3


    I use Nest thermostats in my 3 bed semi. Our house was zoned for upstairs and downstairs and had climote installed previously. Climote is very limited.

    I'm very happy with Nest. I have the learning features disabled but it's easy to set schedules and adjust on the fly as required. Heating only comes on if required to reach set temps, the ensures the house remains at those temps etc.

    I also signed up to electric Ireland and got the deal, bit was over a year ago.


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    #5
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭PCros


    T-b0n3 wrote: »
    I use Nest thermostats in my 3 bed semi. Our house was zoned for upstairs and downstairs and had climote installed previously. Climote is very limited.

    Did EI zone this for you or was it already done?

    Also is it a big job to zone?


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    #6
    T-b0n3
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭T-b0n3


    PCros wrote: »
    Did EI zone this for you or was it already done?

    Also is it a big job to zone?

    Mine was already zoned so not sure on that to be honest. I'd imagine it's a bit of a job.

    EI did install them for me though.


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    #7
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    PCros wrote: »
    Did EI zone this for you or was it already done?

    Also is it a big job to zone?

    EI wont zone. They will only replace like for like. So if you have a timer they will remove the timer and plug in a nest. That's what happened here. I had to get a plumber out to do the rest. I got the house zoned and i have a nest upstairs and downstairs.


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    #8
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭PCros


    peteb2 wrote: »
    EI wont zone. They will only replace like for like. So if you have a timer they will remove the timer and plug in a nest. That's what happened here. I had to get a plumber out to do the rest. I got the house zoned and i have a nest upstairs and downstairs.

    Thank you.

    Can I ask if you don't mind how much it was to zone off upstairs and downstairs?


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    #9
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    PCros wrote: »
    Thank you.

    Can I ask if you don't mind how much it was to zone off upstairs and downstairs?

    Just got this done in our house. There was no thermostats and only a single zone with on/off. We had new water system (hot and cold) installed and then added 3 zones (upstairs, downstairs and hot water) installed using 2 Nest thermostats.

    The cost of the zones and thermostats (not including purchase of thermostats) was €1,300.

    We live in Limerick and didn't price around so not sure if that's good or bad. I do know there was a fair amount of work running pipes with attic motorised valves running from boiler downstairs to new system in attic. The electrician was working on it for a good while too.


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    #10
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    PCros wrote: »
    Thank you.

    Can I ask if you don't mind how much it was to zone off upstairs and downstairs?

    Didnt cost me anything. I spoke to a plumber and it was done under upgrading heating controls or carbon credits or something. He applied to the SEAI and a BER assessor was out.

    We had two stats in the house already, upstairs and downstairs but when i had the gas boiler serviced when we bought the place last year, they said the stats were both dead and useless. and it wasnt zoned at that point.


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    #11
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Worth pointing out that you had the necessary wiring and plumbing for multiple zones though. That's where the work/cost is when adding retrospectively.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What drives me potty is that there's no boost function on the app. I don't use the timer, I just ask Alexa to boost for 2 or 3 hours when I feel it getting chilly. If I'm coming home and I want to turn it on remotely I have to set a recurring timer, unless I'm missing something obvious.


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    #13
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    John_Mc wrote: »
    Worth pointing out that you had the necessary wiring and plumbing for multiple zones though. That's where the work/cost is when adding retrospectively.

    Not according to the fella servicing my gas boiler. And not according to the EI fella who was happy to just plug my nest into a socket on the wall and walk away from the thing!! :mad:


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    #14
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What drives me potty is that there's no boost function on the app. I don't use the timer, I just ask Alexa to boost for 2 or 3 hours when I feel it getting chilly. If I'm coming home and I want to turn it on remotely I have to set a recurring timer, unless I'm missing something obvious.

    Nope/ The joys of the nest is to keep the house at the defined temp. So you have it at 19 it will pre-heat to have it at 19 for that time. No boost.


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    #15
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What drives me potty is that there's no boost function on the app. I don't use the timer, I just ask Alexa to boost for 2 or 3 hours when I feel it getting chilly. If I'm coming home and I want to turn it on remotely I have to set a recurring timer, unless I'm missing something obvious.

    There is a boost. You just turn up the the thermostats. Forget about On off , it’s temperature based, set the temperature to what you want it to be.


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    #16
    RunDMC
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭RunDMC


    ted1 wrote: »
    There is a boost. You just turn up the the thermostats. Forget about On off , it’s temperature based, set the temperature to what you want it to be.

    I agree on the boost; that's just not how it works. But I do get frustrated by the Home/Away thing sometimes. I have to remind myself to switch it back to home when I'm half-an-hour away from home so it's up to temperature when we arrive.

    I haven't found a way around this.

    R


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    #17
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    RunDMC wrote: »
    I agree on the boost; that's just not how it works. But I do get frustrated by the Home/Away thing sometimes. I have to remind myself to switch it back to home when I'm half-an-hour away from home so it's up to temperature when we arrive.

    I haven't found a way around this.

    R
    Have you got geo fencing turned on ? Once I’m on the way home mine has learned to turn it on


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    #18
    RunDMC
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭RunDMC


    ted1 wrote: »
    Have you got geo fencing turned on ? Once I’m on the way home mine has learned to turn it on

    Yes, but it doesn't turn on till I actually get home.

    R


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    #19
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    I had a nest for about a year, then shipped it on. Too many frustrating points.

    1. Our house isn't zoned, so the lack of a "boost" as previously mentioned would of been handy to give some extra heat to other rooms when needed. Turning up the thermostat temperature a) set the livingroom (where I had the nest) to too high a temperature, and b) "educated" the nest to say I wanted the room warmer, when in fact I didn't.

    2. The thresholds above and below the set temperature were too great for us, and the nest too ages to sense the current temperature. Setting the room to 18.5 degrees would end up having the house at 20 degrees easily. This caused us to let the heating run, then flick the thermostat down to 18 degrees to turn off the heating when we felt it was warm enough, and then back up to 18.5 so it would learn that's the temperature we wanted. In doing this, the temperature would then level off in the room around 19-19.5 degrees. Why not set the temperature to 18 degrees I hear you say. Because doing so meant the room would have to fall to 17.5 degrees (actually 17.7 according to the nest manual), which because of the slowness of the nest to adapt to the actual temperature, meant we would be frozen in the room, begging the nest to flick the heating on.

    3. Home/Away. Didn't work. We'd be in the pub a 20 minute walk away, well outside our geo-fenced zone and the heating would be belting away at the house.

    Replaced it all with a sonoff basic and xiaomi wireless temperature sensors, controlled by home assistant. Can't fault it now this last 2 years


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    #20
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Number 1 makes no sense.
    You have 1 zone. Boosting / increasing the temperature would both cause the temperature to increase.


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    #21
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    ted1 wrote: »
    Number 1 makes no sense.
    You have 1 zone. Boosting / increasing the temperature would both cause the temperature to increase.

    Yup. It did. But then nest would assume I want the living room hotter and "learn" that it should schedule the room a bit warmer, when in fact, I just wanted the bedrooms to heat up a bit before heading to bed.

    Point 2 exacerbated point 1. I know I want to boost the heating for 20 minutes, but the nest will take 40 minutes to recognise it has heated up by that half a degree, then turn off, and then slowly realise it has overheated the room (ie. the slowness of the nest getting the actual room temperature).

    Since i've installed our new system, i've barely had to touch the thermostat.


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    #22
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I don't get the issue, use your phone or tablet, on the way home hit the temperature up....

    House be nice and cozy when you get home.

    You can set schedule too for whatever time you like.


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    #23
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    I don't get the issue, use your phone or tablet, on the way home hit the temperature up....

    House be nice and cozy when you get home.

    You can set schedule too for whatever time you like.

    I'm not talking about on my way home. I'm saying I would be in my house, a room without the nest is a bit nippy, I want to get a boost of heat. I don't want the nest thinking "hey, this guy wants 20 degree heat in his house" because I don't.

    Points 2 and 3 were the main issues for us.

    As a side note, with my DIY system, I can set it to automatically turn on the heating when I leave work. I've not bothered because it's not been needed, but it's something the nest can't do - though the nest couldn't do the basics right either.


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    #24
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Yup. It did. But then nest would assume I want the living room hotter and "learn" that it should schedule the room a bit warmer, when in fact, I just wanted the bedrooms to heat up a bit before heading to bed.
    .

    But with 1 zone, to heat the bedrooms you do need to heat the living room. Unless you split the zones, that’s always going to be the case.

    Maybe you should have just moved the thermostat to a different location. Sounds like that was the issue.

    I have mine in the hall and haven’t had any of the issues you had.

    As for taking so long to heat the house. Mine is fairly responsive and cuts off once temperature is achieved. Again it may be an issue of where it’s placed or you may have simply had it set to high.

    Geo fencing works for me without any issue it’ll turn off when I leave. How did you know it was on? Might it have turned in when you started to come home. Or did you or whoever else have the app turned off location services ?


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    #25
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    ted1 wrote: »
    Maybe you should have just moved the thermostat to a different location. Sounds like that was the issue.

    I have mine in the hall and haven’t had any of the issues you had.

    I did. Moved it around a bit, but never found a best place for it (multiple places in the living room, the bedroom, kitchen). Granted, since i've dumped it we've replaced our front door (hall was always freezing) and that's helped keep the house from losing heat.
    ted1 wrote: »
    But with 1 zone, to heat the bedrooms you do need to heat the living room. Unless you split the zones, that’s always going to be the case.
    Correct. I'm ok with that, but having to bump up the thermostat and then remember to drop it back down 20 minutes later is a pain. A simple 20 minute "boost" would do so. I implemented this in my own setup, but actually haven't used it in probably over a year.


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    #26
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    ted1 wrote: »
    As for taking so long to heat the house. Mine is fairly responsive and cuts off once temperature is achieved. Again it may be an issue of where it’s placed or you may have simply had it set to high.

    Geo fencing works for me without any issue it’ll turn off when I leave. How did you know it was on? Might it have turned in when you started to come home. Or did you or whoever else have the app turned off location services ?

    I've my new sensor in the same place as the old nest, and it picks up the current temperature much quicker. Heating set to the same temperatures as the nest was set to. It wasn't an issue of the house taking too long to heat up, it was an issue of the nest taking too long to cop on to the actual temperature in the room.

    Wife and I had the app. Both in the pub, both location services turned on. I opened the app and it said the house was heating. Our status was "home".
    I integrated my home automation setup with Nest, which was aware of my (and my wifes) location and used that to tell Nest when I was home/away. This worked much better than Nests out of the box setup.


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    #27
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Get a nest upstairs and one downstairs....


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    #28
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Get a nest upstairs and one downstairs....

    Think about that one for a second... :rolleyes:


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    #29
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Black_Knight wrote: »
    Think about that one for a second... :rolleyes:

    No just saying, obviously can get trv set up where each room can be controlled separate...

    I you had 2 thermostat already what I said would be perfect.


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    #30
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    No just saying, obviously can get trv set up where each room can be controlled separate...

    I you had 2 thermostat already what I said would be perfect.

    If I had 2 thermostats, yes. But this would mean I had a zoned house. Without zoning both thermostats would be acting upon the one boiler, one conflicting with the other.

    If I was starting from scratch, without knowledge of my own setup, i'd likely have gone the Tado route, with individual smart TRVs on each rad. Pricey, but more suited to my 1 zone house. That said, having had my current setup for 2 years now, I couldn't justify the price of all those TRVs. My clearest endorsement of my DIY system is that my wife doesn't complain about it.


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    #31
    PCros
    Registered Users Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭PCros


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Get a nest upstairs and one downstairs....

    So two questions from the last few posts...

    1) @Black_Knight - Why were you trying to heat a cold room upstairs when your house isn't zoned? Apologies if I'm reading it wrong...

    2) @punisher5112 - What advantages does having two Nest's if the house is not zoned?

    TIA


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