Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

Adamocovic · 12-12-2017 12:52pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

So Sirotkin was quicker in testing and brings a big pile of cash. Bit of a no brainer for Williams so.

I would agree that the team is going nowhere without a top experienced driver. Stroll shouldn't be in F1 based on ability and I don't know the first thing about Sirotkin.

Always feels like a team that is biding its time until the stars align for them.

I've been quite critical of Stroll, mainly because I don't like him.

But surely he's shown enough potential to have earned his spot? I imagine Williams see him as the driver to build around.

boardsuser1 · 12-12-2017 1:05pm

Adamocovic wrote: »

I've been quite critical of Stroll, mainly because I don't like him.

But surely he's shown enough potential to have earned his spot? I imagine Williams see him as the driver to build around.

Bar a lucky 3rd place in Baku thanks to Vettel (penalty) and Hamilton (loose headrest) he wouldn't have stood on the podium.

Monza was a lucky front row due to the weather.

I don't like Stroll either, i believe drivers should be there based on talent before money, but sadly it's the reverse and will become increasingly more common.

Now maybe if he were in a Mercedes alongside Hamilton,something he wanted at Williams,or alongside Vettel at Ferrari could it then be somewhat gauged properly.

Schorpio · 12-12-2017 1:27pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

So Sirotkin was quicker in testing and brings a big pile of cash. Bit of a no brainer for Williams so.

I would agree that the team is going nowhere without a top experienced driver. Stroll shouldn't be in F1 based on ability and I don't know the first thing about Sirotkin.

Always feels like a team that is biding its time until the stars align for them.

I do and I don't understand William's position.

I mean, yes - the testing times are meaningless to us. But Kubicia was pretty confident after his testing. He said that he was happy, and that his standards are high. And I believe his take on that. He has been so incredibly determined to get back into the car at all, that he clearly is setting the bar high. Hell, some people probably told him that even aiming to get back into one of these cars at all was setting the bar unrealistically high.

What I (and I'd imagine everyone else) want to know is, by how much do Williams think Sirotkin is faster? If there isn't much between them, and the money was the thing which was the deciding factor, then I think Williams are making a big mistake. The coverage of Robert's return, the inevitable documentary, the clamor for sponsorship - all of that would do nothing but good things for Williams.

Nevermind the fact that there would probably be some kids who would get swept up in Robert's hype and become lifelong Williams fans.Just look at all the Senna 'fans' who weren't even alive when he was racing.

On the other hand, maybe Robert was just that slow.....:(

skipper_G · 12-12-2017 5:04pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Bar a lucky 3rd place in Baku thanks to Vettel (penalty) and Hamilton (loose headrest) he wouldn't have stood on the podium.

Monza was a lucky front row due to the weather.

I don't like Stroll either, i believe drivers should be there based on talent before money, but sadly it's the reverse and will become increasingly more common.

Now maybe if he were in a Mercedes alongside Hamilton,something he wanted at Williams,or alongside Vettel at Ferrari could it then be somewhat gauged properly.

Was he lucky in Baku? Yes, but you still have to bring the car home.
Did he deserve to be on the front row in Monza? No, it was penalties for Red Bull that did that, but he was still 4th quickest in wet weather while more experienced drivers ended up in barriers (Grosjean) or 2 seconds slower than their teammates (Hello Bottas)

I think he improved as the season went on, and still has potential to be a decent driver. I wouldn't say special based on what we've seen so far in F1 but in his rookie year in F3 he was sandwiched between Charles Leclerc & George Russell in 5th (both highly rated). He then won the F3 title second time around, he was in F1 too soon but some of the criticism he gets about the money is OTT in my opinion.

muckwarrior · 12-12-2017 5:52pm

Even the worst drivers have the odd decent drive. At the end of the day he was comprehensively beaten by an already retired driver who was never quite top-tier even at his peak. Even taking his rookie status into account, he was sub-par this year.

mickdw · 12-12-2017 6:16pm

I'd say he did far better than either Williams or himself expected for year one.
Looks decent enough.
If I remember right, he was under a fair bit of pressure when fighting for second in tricky conditions and did very well. Many drivers have stuck their car in the wall in such circumstances.

Cool_CM · 13-12-2017 12:38am

mickdw wrote: »

I'd say he did far better than either Williams or himself expected for year one.
Looks decent enough.
If I remember right, he was under a fair bit of pressure when fighting for second in tricky conditions and did very well. Many drivers have stuck their car in the wall in such circumstances.

And many much better drivers have stuck their car in the wall in far less testing circumstances!

Harika · 13-12-2017 9:04am

Stroll did well in two chaotic circumstances, he did really well here to get through the havoc twice well. As F3 champ he should have the basics while F1 was quite possible to early for him. A season GP2 would have been good for him. Let's see how he does this year, but as long as he keeps this performance up/improves and the sponsorship money is running he should be fine.
Williams could do with a super quick driver as they now have a lot of funding, Sirotkin was not really someone I saw as winning driver. 3rd three times in GP2 makes him just average.

Schorpio · 13-12-2017 9:47am

Cool_CM wrote: »

And many much better drivers have stuck their car in the wall in far less testing circumstances!

Stroll is okay. Not exceptional, but okay. Yes, he did reasonably well twice this year, but at every other race he was well beaten by Massa.

I know lots of people say that you have to disregard the money he brings (to an extent), but I'm still confident that if that well dried up, Stroll would be out in the cold faster than you could say 'Frank Williams', and that says it all for me really.

I know that 'buying' your seat is fairly standard for young drivers, but most do it by being good at the junior stuff and getting sponsors on board. The fact that his family is ridiculously wealthy, which can get him into F1 at the expense of other drivers who have 'earned' the right has always kind of irritated me.

Infoanon · 13-12-2017 12:33pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

So Sirotkin was quicker in testing and brings a big pile of cash. Bit of a no brainer for Williams so.

What has become of Williams - where the likes of Senna/Prost/Piquet once drove their cars we now have the possible scenario of two novices with money driving the Paddy Lowe inspired Mercedes powered cars.

It appears the best choice for 2018 was Massa - alas he retired before being fired, while Stroll - who was totally outclassed by Massa far too often and if any doubt look at Abu Dhabi - is for all intensive purposes a novice and certainly not a team leader.

Renault - where Sirotkin was a test driver - was rated behind Kubica, indeed Kubica was significantly quicker in his first test which started the possible road to a F1 return.

Ignore the BS about who was fastest if times adjusted - this is all about the money Stroll and Sirotkin can bring - and if not Sirotkin its widely reported that Kvyat will get the ride - he's got money to !

Sad times for Williams - with McLaren powered by Renault on the face of it Williams will continue to fall in the rankings.

boardsuser1 · 13-12-2017 5:22pm

The adjusted times say Kubica was 1.6 & 1.3 seconds slower respectively.

I don't know whether i should believe this article in its entirety.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/891836/Robert-Kubica-F1-riddle-Williams-Sergey-Sirotkin-linked-Russian-billionaires-and-Putin

Infoanon · 13-12-2017 5:57pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The adjusted times say Kubica was 1.6 & 1.3 seconds slower respectively.

I don't know whether i should believe this article in its entirety.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/891836/Robert-Kubica-F1-riddle-Williams-Sergey-Sirotkin-linked-Russian-billionaires-and-Putin

I don't think you should be over reliant on that article - apart from the money aspect.....sad state of affairs

boardsuser1 · 13-12-2017 6:02pm

Infoanon wrote: »

I don't think you should be over reliant on that article - apart from the money aspect.....sad state of affairs

This and Vladimir Putin is what it comes down to basically.

boardsuser1 · 15-12-2017 5:46pm

WIlliams will announce second Driver in January

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133570/williams-driver-announcement-set-for-january

Harika · 15-12-2017 5:52pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

This and Vladimir Putin is what it comes down to basically.

The Russian promoter wants a Russian driver so you can expect the outcome.

boardsuser1 · 15-12-2017 6:11pm

Harika wrote: »

The Russian promoter wants a Russian driver so you can expect the outcome.

Sirotkin or Kvyat.

Infoanon · 15-12-2017 6:46pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

WIlliams will announce second Driver in January

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/133570/williams-driver-announcement-set-for-january

Felipe Massa has been quoted as saying ''William's driver path is financial'

Which unfortunately I would agree with - if rumours are true the back up plan is Kvyat.........

boardsuser1 · 15-12-2017 6:49pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Felipe Massa has been quoted as saying ''William's driver path is financial'

Which unfortunately I would agree with - if rumours are true the back up plan is Kvyat.........

Kvyat might be the reserve driver.

Can he do Friday running if that’s the case?

Putin will probably threaten to pull the race unless there’s a Russian driver every year.

flazio · 18-12-2017 8:46am

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Kvyat might be the reserve driver.

Can he do Friday running if that’s the case?

Putin will probably threaten to pull the race unless there’s a Russian driver every year.

Don't think I'd miss it much. Sochi hasn't really set the scene alight with classic races.

MuddyDog · 18-12-2017 8:51am

Updated odds on this are interesting now given the stories that are around:

https://www.betstars.eu/#/motor_sports/outrights/6444182

Jordan 199 · 19-12-2017 3:08pm

Ferrari to launch their new car on the 22nd of February.

LEIN · 19-12-2017 6:08pm

I bit the bullet and ditched virgin media for Sky.

Can't wait for the new season now.

Jordan 199 · 19-12-2017 6:34pm

LEIN wrote: »

I bit the bullet and ditched virgin media for Sky.

Can't wait for the new season now.

Will you still be watching half the races on C4?

LEIN · 19-12-2017 6:43pm

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Will you still be watching half the races on C4?

Might mix it up at times, I do like Ben and David.
The 5-minute adverts kill me in the build-up and the post-race stuff.

ELM327 · 19-12-2017 6:45pm

From a longtime skyf1 subscriber (and f1 regular viewer since the early 90's) you won't go back to C4 once you start watching sky. The gulf in coverage quality is massive.

Sometimes the commentary and the old boys club "crofty" etc gets a bit drawl but the actual "product" is first class

skipper_G · 19-12-2017 7:43pm

LEIN wrote: »

I bit the bullet and ditched virgin media for Sky.

Can't wait for the new season now.

The package is great, I enjoy being able to watch all the races live, also I pay less than before. Turns out Virgin were robbing *******. I still watch live on C4 when I can as some of the Sky coverage is annoying.

Schorpio · 19-12-2017 7:57pm

LEIN wrote: »

Might mix it up at times, I do like Ben and David.
The 5-minute adverts kill me in the build-up and the post-race stuff.

I've just ditched Sky. Going to miss the coverage, but I really decided that the f1 was the only reason I was keeping it at all, and it was too much per month.

Interestingly though, I would always choose C4 over Sky. The only thing I missed from the Sky coverage was Ted and Martin - give me Ben and DC on commentary over Crofty any day. Also, watching Herbert and Hill can be like watching paint dry.

Cookie_Monster · 19-12-2017 8:59pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Sometimes the commentary and the old boys club "crofty" etc gets a bit drawl but the actual "product" is first class

Are you serious

The sky product is pure tabloid low end rubbish. I'll admit 2017 had slightly more technical pieces which was a plus but the whole thing is feels like it's aimed at simpletons with no real depth to anything. Then add in the likes of Ted Kravitz, how he has a job is utterly beyond me, they also tend to ignore anything non British happening and this is getting worse and worse, it may as well be the Hamilton show these days.
Their use of the big TV is really shoddy as well, it rarely works smoothly with a single press and doesn't look great when the presenter is pressing it multiple times to get it to do anything.

Crofty is also shockingly bad, I sometimes wonder if he only watches the data screens and not the races, he misses everything

boardsuser1 · 19-12-2017 10:21pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Are you serious The sky product is pure tabloid low end rubbish. I'll admit 2017 had slightly more technical pieces which was a plus but the whole thing is feels like it's aimed at simpletons with no real depth to anything. Then add in the likes of Ted Kravitz, how he has a job is utterly beyond me, they also tend to ignore anything non British happening and this is getting worse and worse, it may as well be the Hamilton show these days.
Their use of the big TV is really shoddy as well, it rarely works smoothly with a single press and doesn't look great when the presenter is pressing it multiple times to get it to do anything.

Crofty is also shockingly bad, I sometimes wonder if he only watches the data screens and not the races, he misses everything

“It’s lights out and away we go”

My most hated phrase sang by David Croft.

Oh come back Murray Walker.

mickdw · 19-12-2017 11:48pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

“It’s lights out and away we go”

My most hated phrase sang by David Croft.

Oh come back Murray Walker.

I dont like crofty but to be fair, most commentators develop a phrase at the lights out to allow them have a look at whats happening and put some order on things before they start to speak in detail.
I think it was brendan foster the athletics commentator who spoke about that before saying he was making a hash of commentary until he started using an opening phrase to get his bearings.
Croft does miss everything though, its almost laughable.

boardsuser1 · 19-12-2017 11:56pm

mickdw wrote: »

I dont like crofty but to be fair, most commentators develop a phrase at the lights out to allow them have a look at whats happening and put some order on things before they start to speak in detail.
I think it was brendan foster the athletics commentator who spoke about that before saying he was making a hash of commentary until he started using an opening phrase to get his bearings.
Croft does miss everything though, its almost laughable.

Murray Walker had a different one for most races.

Croft and co. Are so sickeningly In love with Hamilton that they miss everything else around them.

James Allen is another Hamilton lover.

Brundle isn’t as bad but could be better.

British channel yes, British grid no.

ELM327 · 20-12-2017 9:04am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Are you serious The sky product is pure tabloid low end rubbish. I'll admit 2017 had slightly more technical pieces which was a plus but the whole thing is feels like it's aimed at simpletons with no real depth to anything. Then add in the likes of Ted Kravitz, how he has a job is utterly beyond me, they also tend to ignore anything non British happening and this is getting worse and worse, it may as well be the Hamilton show these days.
Their use of the big TV is really shoddy as well, it rarely works smoothly with a single press and doesn't look great when the presenter is pressing it multiple times to get it to do anything.

Crofty is also shockingly bad, I sometimes wonder if he only watches the data screens and not the races, he misses everything

I disagree, compared to the other offerings it's the best show in town by some distance IMO. I remember watching on Eurosport, ITV, BBC, Channel4, Sky, Setanta.
With the obvious exception of Murray Walker I can't think of anything that beats the sky product.
I actually like Ted's notebook as a feature and the amount of "F1 derived programming" that they offer is also unmatched. The occasional britishisms are annoying alright but it is a british channel so it's to be expected. Above all else I pay for the HD sports pack only for F1 and NFL and I can't see that changing.

muckwarrior · 20-12-2017 10:51am

The sky presenters make me cringe. They act like they're a bunch of strangers that someone has instructed to pretend they're all best friends. The result is stupid nicknames for each other and forced unfunny jokes. My Google Home has more of a personality than Simon Lazenby and whenever I see Jonny Herbert I get the urge to kick him in the face.

The channel 4 presenters on the other hand seem like a genuine team. I disliked Steve Jones at first, but I think he's really settled into the role. Coulthard and Webber also have a good rapport.

Ron Burgundy II · 20-12-2017 11:55am

Agree with Channel 4 team, I enjoy watching their coverage.

Harika · 20-12-2017 1:12pm

BBC were best with Brundle-Allen and then Brundle - coulthard. 2010 to 2012? Also when competing in the first year with sky. Since then the quality went downhill, still good but not as good as it was. I think as channel 4 phases out there is no need to compete anymore.
There is only the Austrian commentary team Hausberger Wurz that competes with them. Still the pre show is nowhere better

boardsuser1 · 20-12-2017 1:15pm

Harika wrote: »

BBC were best with Brundle-Allen and then Brundle - coulthard. 2010 to 2012? Also when competing in the first year with sky. Since then the quality went downhill, still good but not as good as it was. I think as channel 4 phases out there is no need to compete anymore.

Jonathan Legard was rubbish on the BBC.

James Allen was the same on ITV.

Walker/Brundle was for less than 4 years but fantastic.

James Hunt went too soon.

boardsuser1 · 20-12-2017 4:14pm

I reckon Kimi Raikkonen will be heading for retirement in 2018.

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/12/raikkonen-risking-ferrari-seat-inconsistency-continues-2018-marchionne/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCheckeredFlag+%28The+Checkered+Flag%29

boardsuser1 · 20-12-2017 4:17pm

Kubica 7 race trial for $7M?

http://en.f1i.com/news/288688-kubica-tables-7m-offer-williams-seven-races.html

MuddyDog · 20-12-2017 4:27pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Kubica 7 race trial for $7M?

http://en.f1i.com/news/288688-kubica-tables-7m-offer-williams-seven-races.html

Wow, I'd say there could be truth to that hence the delay....

boardsuser1 · 20-12-2017 4:30pm

MuddyDog wrote: »

Wow, I'd say there could be truth to that hence the delay....

The bit that confuses me though is in relation to insurance.

He got a massive payout after the rally accident, if he races in F1 again that has to be repaid it seems.

If after 7 races he is dispensed with, will be be bankrupted by it?

Also if it's the first 7 races, that takes in Russia, no Russian on the grid won't please Putin.

Schorpio · 20-12-2017 4:56pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I reckon Kimi Raikkonen will be heading for retirement in 2018.

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2017/12/raikkonen-risking-ferrari-seat-inconsistency-continues-2018-marchionne/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCheckeredFlag+%28The+Checkered+Flag%29

Daniel Ricciardo will be a Ferrari driver from the 2019 season.

....you heard it here first. :pac:

Infoanon · 20-12-2017 5:54pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Kubica 7 race trial for $7M?

http://en.f1i.com/news/288688-kubica-tables-7m-offer-williams-seven-races.html

The word from normally very reliable journalists is that Kubica is the preferred driver but SMP offered double the money for Sirotkin to drive. The stories put out about Kubica being slower where to avoid the accusations of Williams accepting pay drivers over ability - again reported by reliable journalists.

The delay in announcing a driver for 2018 is to allow Kubica to raise more money - CVC (yes that CVC) are indirectly the main backers of Kubica.

An additional complication is that SMP has issues with authorities in America and Canada - SMP Bank is blacklisted . Williams is these days a quoted company....

Putin is a close associate and old friend of Boris and Arkady Rotenberg - the owners of SMP bank - thus the murmurings of a Russian driver in F1 at any cost.

The New Year will be interesting and will certainly mould the future of Williams

Jordan 199 · 24-12-2017 4:44am

Sebastian-Vettel-Ferrari-Formel-1-fotoshowBig-49c4442d-1136762.jpg

Nice photo.

LEIN · 24-12-2017 11:07am

Sky have the full 2017 season on demand...

My Sunday morning is sorted.

boardsuser1 · 27-12-2017 1:14am

Hamilton upto no good again.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/26/lewis-hamilton-accused-of-humiliating-his-young-nephew-online

mickdw · 27-12-2017 12:12pm

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Hamilton upto no good again.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/dec/26/lewis-hamilton-accused-of-humiliating-his-young-nephew-online

To be fair he was hardly telling a lie.
Nephew taking dress sense from lewis.

boardsuser1 · 27-12-2017 12:52pm

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair he was hardly telling a lie.
Nephew taking dress sense from lewis.

I agree, his personal thoughts on family should be separate to public image though.

Is it any wonder he’s not the most likable of people.

27-12-2017 3:46pm

I never thought I'd see the day when I stuck up for Hamilton but talk about a ****in mountain out of a molehill.

AMKC · 27-12-2017 8:18pm

Maybe Hamilton should think and say the words in is mind first before speaking. You would think he would be good at thinking seen as he has such a job that requires a lot of very fast thinking. I say fair play to his nephew he sounds adorable and there is no harm in it at all if he wants to wear a dress. Men done it for years and wore heels too. I think its great.

Cookie_Monster · 28-12-2017 5:20am

LIGHTNING wrote: »

That's modern society for ya. You can't say anything without somebody getting offended.

How dare you say such a thing!!

:pac:

Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

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