What has happened to some of our recent Walker Cup heroes that have turned pro

Claregaafan18 · 25-11-2017 1:03pm #1

I'm wondering what has happened to some of Ireland's recent Walker Cup participants. In particular there are 3 players that have either taken a break from the game or not playing competitively anymore. The golfers in question are Jack Hume, Alan Dunbar and Paul Cutler.

In 2011-12 Alan Dunbar was at the top of his game. In September '11 he and Paul Cutler competed in the Walker Cup guiding the GB&I team to success over the US. In June 2012 Dunbar won the British Amateur Championship and competed in the Open Championship 2012 and US Masters in 2013. However when he turned pro after his participation in Augusta National he found that transition from the am to the pro game was extremely challenging to say the least. I don't think he has played competitively for around 2 years now so does anyone know what he is up to these days?

Paul Cutler like Dunbar competed in that successful GB&I team that beat their US counterparts in 2011. He won the 2010 Lytham Trophy and successfully made the cut and played all 4 rounds in the 2011 Irish Open in Killarney. However after turning pro in 2011 and having tried to secure his European Card at Q-School on a couple of occasions sadly Cutler seemingly lost love of the game and hasn't played competitively for 3 years now. Again if anyone knows what he is up to then that will be most welcome.

As for Jack Hume he was undoubtedly our most consistent amateur during the last few years. He won the 2014 West Of Ireland, 2014 Nassau Invitational and secured his place on that successful GB&I Walker Cup team in 2015. In 2016 he won the South African Amateur and the individual European Nations Cup. He also was runner-up in the Irish Amateur Open. He turned pro in October 2016 but after missing the cut in the Alfred Dunhill in South Africa in December '16, he has not played competitively since. Does anyone know whether he just took a break from the game or was he injured? The big question is will the Naas clubman return playing competitive golf in 2018? He had a handicap of plus 6 in his amateur days so we know the man has talent.

The 3 players that I have mentioned are proof that regardless of how good an amateur you are, it does not mean instant success in the pro game. Other players who turned pro after recent Walker Cup's like Kevin Phelan and Gary Hurley who have great talent have currently no status on any tour in 2018. It is a very hard game. Only the few have successful careers and there is also the perception that some are going to the paid ranks with less than stellar amateur careers far too easily. It is a very interesting topic and something that I take great interest in. Here's hoping that we will see the emergence of new Irish stars in the new year.

But if the same underlying problems like a lack of major funding for aspiring pros and more players turning pro and not being ready continue to resurface then don't expect much paddy's on the European tour anytime soon. To conclude France is the role model for promoting and supporting their players who aspire to and compete on the European Tour. That is where we should copy their model as it works for them big time even despite the huge resources they have available to them. Could a sugar daddy here be another answer re more funding for Irish golf. Here's hoping.

ShivasIrons · 25-11-2017 6:08pm

Funding is not the answer, advice and mentorship is the answer. Unfortunately the system here doesn't provide that so you end with a whole pile of golfers lost at sea and no idea where to go, some find their way but most don't

Claregaafan18 · 25-11-2017 6:57pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Funding is not the answer, advice and mentorship is the answer. Unfortunately the system here doesn't provide that so you end with a whole pile of golfers lost at sea and no idea where to go, some find their way but most don't

I know that Des Smyth is doing that father like role for aspiring Irish pros on behalf of Team Ireland Golf. I still think that players seeking a way onto the European Tour and beyond should go to Asia, Africa for Q-school there in order to seek more playing opportunities. However this is where funding is lacking.

If more funding was given to Irish golfers they should go abroad and seek status on the likes of the Asian Tour and Sunshine Tour in South Africa. That is the way forward for any pro but with a flock of Irish golfers turning pro in 2017 then really playing more events abroad should be encouraged more as golfers are always desperate to get more playing opportunities.

tommypepper · 25-11-2017 7:47pm

Claregaafan18 wrote: »

If more funding was given to Irish golfers they should go abroad and seek status on the likes of the Asian Tour and Sunshine Tour in South Africa..

They've turned professional, you think public money should continue to support them?

ShivasIrons · 25-11-2017 8:08pm

Claregaafan18 wrote: »

I know that Des Smyth is doing that father like role for aspiring Irish pros on behalf of Team Ireland Golf. I still think that players seeking a way onto the European Tour and beyond should go to Asia, Africa for Q-school there in order to seek more playing opportunities. However this is where funding is lacking.

If more funding was given to Irish golfers they should go abroad and seek status on the likes of the Asian Tour and Sunshine Tour in South Africa. That is the way forward for any pro but with a flock of Irish golfers turning pro in 2017 then really playing more events abroad should be encouraged more as golfers are always desperate to get more playing opportunities.

I repeat again, it's not a funding issue, Team Ireland provides funding, it's an advice issue. There are plenty of coaches in Ireland, guys who have tried the playing route and not succeeded, these are the guys who should be sought out.

They know the pitfalls. I know that these professional golfers haven't been asked anything about why they failed and what they would have done differently. If you want to know why there aren't more Irish golfers succeeding, ask these guys. It's not funding

thewobbler · 25-11-2017 8:33pm

Must just be me who thinks that a country the size of Ireland consistently having 3-5 players in the world top 100 for as long as I can remember, is actually overachieving.

Claregaafan18 · 25-11-2017 9:01pm

ShivasIrons wrote: »

I repeat again, it's not a funding issue, Team Ireland provides funding, it's an advice issue. There are plenty of coaches in Ireland, guys who have tried the playing route and not succeeded, these are the guys who should be sought out.

They know the pitfalls. I know that these professional golfers haven't been asked anything about why they failed and what they would have done differently. If you want to know why there aren't more Irish golfers succeeding, ask these guys. It's not funding

As I said in my earlier piece in this thread France is the role model for Ireland to aspire to. Looking at their system in detail they provide not just funding but also give them advice and invest on their coaching programmes not just for players to improve but coaches also. I just think that the rate in which players are giving up the game here is just a bit too high when you compare to the likes of France.

Finally what do you think ShivasIrons would you ask to for advice if you have just turned pro and what type of resources would you expect at least in order to prepare for the paid ranks? What needs to be done do you think or should be done differently to make that transition from amateur to pro that bit easier from an Irish perspective?

FixdePitchmark · 25-11-2017 9:16pm

thewobbler wrote: »

Must just be me who thinks that a country the size of Ireland consistently having 3-5 players in the world top 100 for as long as I can remember, is actually overachieving.

I'm not trying to be controversial.

But I always considered our record terrible. The last 10 years have turned things around incredibly.

And, things look very bright right now.

But prior to Padraig - the south had zero majors. participation rates are very high in Ireland. We are part of the history of the game being part of Britain during its formation. We have course here from 1880s. Yet we won no majors (the south) , none in all of the 20th century.

We had great golfers in that time and won zero.

Countries with very few players and far less history, like,

Fiji 3

Argentina 3

Zimbabwe 3

Now the North - treating them alone are punching way above their weight. Helped significantly by Rory.

Combined we are respectable.

But growing up - 80s/90s most of 2000s - watching majors was hard work if you were an Irish fan.

So - only for Rory , would there be much up the top of majors at present ?

There is always hope in Shane,
Now Paul Dunne.
Rory we never know.
We are grasping at straws for Paddy.

And this is us doing very well at present.

There are always great golfers on the way - but very few get to a major level.

So - I don't agree, considering our participation , history and courses - we are very poor - but massively improved in last 10 years.

Ignoring Rory (major outlier) we shoudl have been where we are now for the 60s/70s/80s/ and 90s and 2000s.

We had 50 bad years.

thewobbler · 25-11-2017 9:31pm

I kind of get what you’re saying Fixd.

But it still smacks of confirmation bias.

There are 35,000 odd golf courses in the world. So we own approximately 1%.

It might be an unusually popular game here compared to other countries, but simple maths should indicate that having over 1% of the world’s best golfers is a sign that we are punching, not failing.

—

Btw your Fiji, Argentina, Zimbabwe comparisons really aren’t fair.

The performances of Singh, Cabrera and Price versus just about everyone else from their countries, are anything but proof that a nation’s golf union is capable of nurturing professionals.

WH BONNEY · 25-11-2017 9:49pm

I believe Alan Dunbar is now Assistant Pro @ Elm Park.

ShivasIrons · 26-11-2017 11:37am

Claregaafan18 wrote: »

As I said in my earlier piece in this thread France is the role model for Ireland to aspire to. Looking at their system in detail they provide not just funding but also give them advice and invest on their coaching programmes not just for players to improve but coaches also. I just think that the rate in which players are giving up the game here is just a bit too high when you compare to the likes of France.

Finally what do you think ShivasIrons would you ask to for advice if you have just turned pro and what type of resources would you expect at least in order to prepare for the paid ranks? What needs to be done do you think or should be done differently to make that transition from amateur to pro that bit easier from an Irish perspective?

What rate are golfers giving up the game in France? What rate are they giving it up here?

The reason that funding isn’t that important is money is won playing professional events. If you play well enough you win enough money to keep going. If you don’t it’s very unlikely you’ll be good enough to progress. So some funding is required but not masses of it.

Looking at the funding model here all you need to look at is the funding given last year. Paul Dunne received big funding from Team Ireland after he had won over 100k on the US Tour and received other substantial sponsorship money. He did not need any funding. Team Ireland only want to shout about successes and are completely ignoring all the golfers they’ve funded and didn’t make it.

Golfers turning pro need two pieces of advice, one how good is their game now and where does it need to improve to to be successful on tour and two how to manage time, which is avoiding burnout etc.

Most have no clue about the first one and throw a whole pile of mud against a wall hoping something sticks. Not very efficient. They know less about the second one as elite amateurs have nearly all their travel arrangements done by a golfing union.

thewobbler · 26-11-2017 3:08pm

Okay, please explain to me why the French system is worth benchmarking?

Do we wish to underachieve?

golfguy1 · 26-11-2017 11:09pm

Don't see too many French on the major tours either
If your good enough u will make a living on tour funding or not

Claregaafan18 · 02-12-2017 9:05pm

Jack Hume will tee it up in an Algarve Pro Golf Tour event starting tomorrow. He hasn't been in action since December 2016. However it is great that this fine talent from Naas is returning to golf after a 12 month hiatus to the game. Best of luck to him.

Claregaafan18 · 20-02-2018 5:04pm

Great to see that one of Ireland's elite amateurs over the last few years, Stuart Grehan claimed his 1st pro title in an Algarve Pro Tour event in Portugal today. Grehan claimed the 1st prize of 2,000 euros when winning the Palmares Classic on 10 under. He finished a shot clear of the field. Congrats to Stuart. The Tullamore man looks to have a bright future in the game.

ready4liftoff · 15-12-2018 4:34pm

Naas Golf Club has produced a production line of golfers that is the envy of Irish golf. From Jack Hume, Conor O'Rourke to 2018 West of Ireland champion Rob Brazill all seriously good golfers. Now Jonathan Yates is forging his own path on the pro game. Yates who won the 2016 West of Ireland has successfully navigated Alps Tour Q-School and by finishing Tied 6th at 6 under (the top 35 and ties secure full Alps tour playing privileges for 2019) he can look forward joining fellow Alps Tour and Naas member Conor O'Rourke on the same tour for next season. The top 5 players from the order of merit at the conclusion of the season, secure their European Challenge Tour cards for the following season.

Congrats Jonathan!

ready4liftoff · 19-01-2019 10:23am

Conor Purcell from Portmarnock has qualified for the final of the Australian Amateur Championship. Purcell won both his 1/4 and semi final matches this morning, with both matches going to the 18th. He now faces Australian Nathan Barbieri in the final. Conor who reached the semi-final of the British Amateur last year before losing to another Irishman Robin Dawson, is an outstanding young talent. He is expected to make the GB&I Walker Cup team later on in September against the US. Best of luck to Conor in the final. Could be a great 24 hours for Irish golf with whats going on in Abu Dhabi!

Trampas · 19-01-2019 11:15am

Should amateurs be allowed to collect fedex or dubai points when they play on tours?

When they get an invite they could be asked if they wish to join and pay whatever it is and be allowed to collect points.

British champion can’t turn pro until after a few majors otherwise they lose their spot. Why not be allowed collect points along the way.

Maybe ever the champions allowed ?

ready4liftoff · 20-01-2019 8:31am

Conor Purcell from Portmarnock has won the Australian Amateur Championship. He defeated Nathan Barbieri of Australia in a sudden death play off. All square after 36 holes, Conor won the 37th to win this prestigious event. Congrats Conor and surely a GB&I Walker Cup cap awaits this fine talent come September.

Donald Trumped · 25-02-2019 1:22pm

Looks like the European Challenge Tour is in huge trouble. Only 23 events this year, I believe, compared to 29 in 2018. It appears that there will be no Northern Ireland Open in Galgorm Castle. No Irish Challenge also, which was played in Concra Wood in Monaghan last October. The official schedule has not been fully announced yet, but the signs are not good for the main gateway tour to the European Tour. No Challenge tour event in the UK for 2019 too.

My advice for any fledgling Irish player, who are considering turning pro is stay amateur, for as long as possible. Worrying times for the Challenge tour indeed, who are currently drip feeding info on their website, about the 2019 schedule, over the past few days.

slave1 · 25-02-2019 1:53pm

Trampas wrote: »

Should amateurs be allowed to collect fedex or dubai points when they play on tours?

When they get an invite they could be asked if they wish to join and pay whatever it is and be allowed to collect points.

British champion can’t turn pro until after a few majors otherwise they lose their spot. Why not be allowed collect points along the way.

Maybe ever the champions allowed ?

You must be a member of a tour to gain FedEx/Dubai points, in order to be a member you must qualify (sub tours, win whilst on invites etc.) e.g. when Lowry won the WGC a few years back he was not yet a PGA member so got zero points, but the win allowed him to qualify to become a member...

By definition amateurs will therefore not be allowed collect points and their winnings will go to the professionals depending on how each tournament handles it e.g. Lowry winning the Irish Open, I think the money defaulted to Rock

Donald Trumped · 25-02-2019 5:37pm

Looks like the Irish Challenge will be on the European Challenge Tour schedule for 2019 after all. The tournament is set to be played on October 10th to 13th. The prize fund has increased by 20,000 from last year to 200,000 euros this year. A venue has yet to be confirmed. In all there are 23 full Challenge tour tournaments (not including additional events i.e the Open, US Open championship, where reduced points will be available for Challenge tour members, that take part on those two events and the Jordan Mixed Open).

27-02-2019 10:52am

Donald Trumped wrote: »

Looks like the Irish Challenge will be on the European Challenge Tour schedule for 2019 after all. The tournament is set to be played on October 10th to 13th. The prize fund has increased by 20,000 from last year to 200,000 euros this year. A venue has yet to be confirmed. In all there are 23 full Challenge tour tournaments (not including additional events i.e the Open, US Open championship, where reduced points will be available for Challenge tour members, that take part on those two events and the Jordan Mixed Open).

So your original post was FAKE NEWS

Donald Trumped · 10-05-2019 2:43pm

Looks like that the players completing at the Alps Tour this week, one of the main third tier professional golf tours in Europe, will have to be double digit figures under par to make the cut. At the moment the cut is a staggering 8 under in the Alps de Las Castillas, where the top 40 and ties qualify for the third and final round tomorrow. However with half the field yet to complete their 2nd rounds, it appears that anyone from 10 under or better will be secure. Jonathan Yates from Naas is on 10 under. The leader is at 19 under after 36 holes!!!!!

However those at 9 under or worse are set for an early weekend off. Naas' Conor O'Rourke finished his 2nd round on 9 under for the tournament, but can't be certain whether he will have a pay day tomorrow, at this stage of the tournament. It's incredible the standard of golf in these professional events, no matter how big or small they are. Pro golf is tough. Here is the current leaderboard in the link below.

https://alpstourgolf.com/report/?tourn=ESP1&report=http://info.alpstourgolf.com/tic/tmscores.cgi?tourn=ESP1~season=2019~params=P*2ESC02~

Donald Trumped · 11-05-2019 12:17pm

Donald Trumped wrote: »

Looks like that the players completing at the Alps Tour this week, one of the main third tier professional golf tours in Europe, will have to be double digit figures under par to make the cut. At the moment the cut is a staggering 8 under in the Alps de Las Castillas, where the top 40 and ties qualify for the third and final round tomorrow. However with half the field yet to complete their 2nd rounds, it appears that anyone from 10 under or better will be secure. Jonathan Yates from Naas is on 10 under. The leader is at 19 under after 36 holes!!!!!

However those at 9 under or worse are set for an early weekend off. Naas' Conor O'Rourke finished his 2nd round on 9 under for the tournament, but can't be certain whether he will have a pay day tomorrow, at this stage of the tournament. It's incredible the standard of golf in these professional events, no matter how big or small they are. Pro golf is tough. Here is the current leaderboard in the link below.

https://alpstourgolf.com/report/?tourn=ESP1&report=http://info.alpstourgolf.com/tic/tmscores.cgi?tourn=ESP1~season=2019~params=P*2ESC02~

Jonathan Yates shot 61 (11 under) for his third and final round in the Alps Tour today. The Naas clubman finished the tournament on 21 under after 3 rounds. But that still won't be good enough to win the tournament. He might not finish in the top 5 either!!!!

The Alps de las Castillas tournament has seen record low scoring this week and lots of questions have been asked on social media about how easy the golf course has played this week. But in fairness it just shows how standards in European golf has improved immensely over the past 5 to 10 years or so.

gaa goes · 16-09-2023 8:57am

Walker cup players Alex Maguire and Mark Power inside the top 12 ahead of the final round of the DP world tour q school first stage qualifier in Austria. I think that around the top 20 will secure a place at stage 2 q school to be played in Spain in early November.

gaa goes · 16-09-2023 1:14pm

Alex Maguire and Mark Power successfully qualified from first stage DP World tour Q-School qualifier in Austria today. Both players will head to second stage Q-School in Spain in early November.

gaa goes · 05-11-2023 4:35pm

Mark Power facing a 4 from 7 play off to qualify for the final stage DP World Tour Q-School. All seven players that are playing in this play off are outside the top 1000 in the World Rankings. Best of luck to him.

gaa goes · 05-11-2023 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328224#Comment_121328224

Now the DP World Tour website saying that there's no play off in Fortanals GC so it would appear that Mark has qualified for the final stage commencing next Friday.

gaa goes · 05-11-2023 5:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121328346#Comment_121328346

The latest info is that Mark is in a play off. Here's hoping for some good news very soon from Spain.

gaa goes · 05-11-2023 5:50pm

Mark Power will join Irish golfers Ruaidhri McGee, Jonathan Caldwell and Conor Purcell in next Friday's 108 hole DP World Tour Q School final stage after coming through the play off.

What has happened to some of our recent Walker Cup heroes that have turned pro

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