Redevelopment of the docklands/port area

Maskhadov · 29-10-2006 1:56pm #1

There seems to be growing political backing to the idea of relocating Dublin port out of the city and redeveloping the whole area. I just started a thread outlining what needs to be done to build the mini Manhattan.

The port is going to reach capacity in a year or so, rather than infill anything more they can simply send the freight to the other ports (Cork, Galway, Waterford, Belfast). Meanwhile A body needs to be set up as to how best to move existing faculties out of Dublin Port.

No new plan for a mini Manhattan could be built in Dublin without Dykes due to global warming and rising water levels. Building a dyke around Dublin would no doubt bring down insurance for offices etc around the city. The attached image outlines a dyke for Dublin.

The M 50 could be extended around Dublin on top of the dykes and making use of the port tunnel, opening up the howth area and the east side of the city.

The poolbeg generation station and the sewage works may have to be moved to another location but the upshot is that residents don’t have a smell of sh1t in their noses every day . A suitable location needs to be found for both.

By the time they clear the docklands of all the industry and facilities there would be enough time for the public have their say and architects to draw up plans for the new buildings. I just hope that anything that is built is impressive and tall. There is only one shot at designing them and they may well be impressive now but in 5 years time they may look very ordinary. Spencer dock is such an example

Chris_533976 · 29-10-2006 2:12pm

Great idea, however I dont think it would happen because the way I see that diagram, the Port Tunnel is more or less useless with the dyke motorway. Also, the dyke motorway would not have any offramps, making it pretty empty most of the time, IMO.

The idea is good though, if you remove the right hand side of the loop above - maybe make that part of the dyke into a tourist attraction of some sort.

Unfortunatly we all know how quickly things get done here, so global warming would probobly have sunk most of Dublin before the legal battles over the dykes would have gotten through the High Court

Ham'nd'egger · 29-10-2006 4:09pm

Regardless of the merits and cons of this Dyke idea (Which I think is not bad on the flesh), there is no reason at all why, with some investment made into them, that the many regional ports around Ireland cannot be utilised and expanded. Far too much comes through Dublin Port as it is, with the immediate consequence that Dublins infrastructure is straining to cope with this.

Drogheda, Dundalk, Arklow, Rosslare and Greenore are all on the east coast and within 2 hours of Dublin and the Euroroute E 1; New Ross, Waterford, Cork, Foynes and Limerick are logical access points from France and Spain while the West has ports in Sligo, Galway and Killybegs. Granted, not all of these ports will be capable of taking all and sundry, but many of them are in areas that are nautically nearer to foreign ports than Dublin so time (and perhaps money) would be saved using the south over Dublin all the time.

SeanW · 29-10-2006 10:15pm

Why would we put a bunch of skyscrapers in a land area that might be lost if sea levels rise? there'd need to be a dyke plan.

Victor · 30-10-2006 3:33am

Maskhadov wrote:

The M 50 could be extended around Dublin on top of the dykes and making use of the port tunnel, opening up the howth area and the east side of the city.

Open them up for what?

The poolbeg generation station and the sewage works may have to be moved to another location

For example?

By the time they clear the docklands of all the industry and facilities there would be enough time for the public have their say and architects to draw up plans for the new buildings.

And what about decontaminating soil after hundreds of years of chemical factories, fuels, power stations, landfill.....

Maskhadov · 30-10-2006 11:49am

Open it up the area west of dollymount for higher density office, retail and apartments as opposed to the current semi detached disgrace in our capital city. Also to relive gridlock in the city.

Poolbeg and the sewage works are only dealing with natural waste, it isnt sellafield.

they should take a look at the great job they did in Melbourne. But the tall buildings in the docks should be just that TALL. The new U2 130 meter tower is nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Melbourne_Docklands_-_Yarras_Edge_-_marina_panorama.jpg

Seth Brundle · 30-10-2006 12:11pm

A motorway along Dollymount & Sandymount? Im sure the EU would have something to say about it regarding it being an SAC under the birds directive.

Bull Island is a delicate man made island (or at least the result of mans actions). Any interference could end up damaging the entire area.

Also building a motorway between the port area and Bull island would give the port company an excuse to get their infill aspirations done!

There would be absolutely huge opposition from so many angles (environmentalists, residents, etc).

Maskhadov · 30-10-2006 12:57pm

well the dykes will have to be built sooner or later. If there are any problems with the eastern motorway near bull island etc they can just do what the spanish are doing with all their motorways in madrid and put them underground. Tunnels cost a few bob extra but it clears the whole environmental issue up.

OTK · 30-10-2006 2:56pm

An urban motorway to combat global warming.

Because the most sensible way to get around a city is by car. And because induced demand is fiction. And because we won't have multi-billion euro Kyoto fines in 2012. And because our public transport system is adequate.

Victor · 30-10-2006 7:26pm

Oh, what does one do with the outflows from the rivers and canals? Given that flood tides are associated with low pressure weather systems and low pressure weather systems are associated with rain?

mackerski · 31-10-2006 12:19am

Victor wrote:

Oh, what does one do with the outflows from the rivers and canals?

Without offering any judgement on the plan presented...

One builds sluices into the dyke, which one opens to release the buildup of water inside. As you'd imagine, one does this at low tide. This is how things happen with the Afsluitdijk in the Netherlands, though there they have the convenience of regulating the level of a (large) lake. In the case of Dublin, you'd probably have to place your dykes far enough into where the sea now is to allow all rivers to empty into a body of water large enough to allow this kind of regulation. As with the IJsselmeer, this would, over time, become a freshwater lake.

Dermot

Maskhadov · 02-11-2006 2:11pm

The dykes aren't much of an engineering problem. We can the dutch to help out. And we also tunnel from the port tunnel across the bay to south dublin.

A metro line should serve the new mini manhattan area. Maybe the orbital line could be continued east.

D'Peoples Voice · 02-11-2006 2:43pm

Maskhadov wrote:

The dykes aren't much of an engineering problem. We can the dutch to help out.

Or indeed the people of New Orleans

Maskhadov · 02-11-2006 6:27pm

the dykes in new orleans were a botched engineering job right from the start. They failed to head the warnings and didn't implement enough safe guards.

The job that needs to be done around dublin is completely different to that of new orleans. we are only facing increased tidal levels for a few hours per day, like landon.

John R · 02-11-2006 7:44pm

This is quite possibly the worst idea I have ever read on this board, it may even pip the tuskar tunnel in the insane fantasy stakes.

dowlingm · 02-11-2006 8:12pm

add wind and/or tidal flow generators along the dyke?

Navan Junction · 02-11-2006 9:01pm

I can see it in years to come..

The lost city of DockLandtus

Maskhadov · 02-11-2006 9:07pm

nothing fantastic about it. Its just infastructure we need and will happen.

Lennoxschips · 02-11-2006 11:22pm

interesting, however i forsee a few major problems:

1. we don't need dyke by dun laoghrie (or however you spell it) or most of the southside for that matter, this area is well above sea level

2. nobody wants a motorway slicing through dublin bay, including me, and i don't even live there. i doubt the people living on the dublin coast will be any more sympathetic

3. the areas served by this road already have ample infrastructure (DART, port tunnel, N11)

Maskhadov · 03-11-2006 9:13am

we need to keep tunnelling from the port south of the liffey and meet up with the m50. The motorway doesn't have to be put near a dyke.

Lennoxschips · 03-11-2006 12:39pm

why? because it's cool to have a motorway or because it's needed

i can think of better things to spend a billion euro on

steve-o · 03-11-2006 1:01pm

They could build a dyke from Howth to Killiney with a motorway on top, then build a new port and airport next to it on an artificial island. The port tunnel could be extended to there, and onwards to Wales. Eventually they could reclaim all of Dublin Bay and build a new Dubai and be the envy of the world!!!

Metrobest · 04-11-2006 5:17am

Look, it's time for radical solutions here and the Port project is one.

It makes sense for the Port Tunnel to be linked up with the M50, forming a full orbital motorway. It would do away with a lot of the congestion that blights our city.

You know it's funny. A lot of the commments on this thread are examples of why Dublin is in the situation it is - lack of vision. Rather than embrace Mashkadov's vision and provide helpful suggestions, you just try and shoot it down.

Other cities all over the world have redeveloped their Port sites. They've realised the value of this prime land close to the city. And in an era of unprecedented car usage, it makes sense to have high density office/residential close to the city where high quality transport, (motorways and metros) can service it. We have this opportunity in Dublin. Why not seize it?

Mashkadov mentioned Melbourne and that's interesting. Twenty years ago, Melbourne was a complete backwater and Sydney was the star city of Australia with her gleaming harbour and world-famous Opera House.

Melbourne had to catch up. Enter a new Mayor and city planners, who came up with a vision for the city. That vision is starting to be realised. Ugly railway lines and roads running along the river Yarra have been put underground and fabulous new public spaces like Federation Square have been installed.

http://www.sen.com.au/web_images/OB_Fed_Square_044.jpg [500kb - Victor]

http://lambcutlet.org/albums/Melbourne/Flinders_Street_Station_and_Federation_Square_from_the_Melbourne_Observation_Deck.jpg

Imagine if we did the same in Dublin: put a road tunnel under the Liffey to connect to the Port Tunnel and created a new city park on the North Quays running all the way from Heuston to the new Port Tunnel. The other Quay would become a two-way bus/tram lane. Office workers would be able to lunch by the Liffey and the car-free Quays would be a cyclist's dream.

These aren't crazy ideas. They are do-able and they are being done in cities all over the world. For once why can't Dublin be a leading city. With MetroNorth and Port project and luas and more, we can become a world class city. We've all worked hard to make Ireland a prosperous place; this prosperity and confidence must now be put on full public display in terms of showing the world that we have the vision to deliver a world class city with the best of modern architecture and public spaces.

Redevelopment of the docklands/port area

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