Interview advice - where am I going wrong?

Snapgal · 16-06-2020 11:18pm #1

Just did an Zoom interview today and have a feeling was not success. Went for two other in school interviews as they were in my county - one job share and another other interview where I was told the school was not sure of hours yet. I received emails saying I was not successful.

Just feeling a bit low as left a CID job after 13 years to move closer home in the West - gaeilge/MFL are my subjects.This is my sixth summer and nowhere close to CID. I love the school where I was teaching last year - lovely principal/staff but no hours available for me - just cover for teachers plus a two hour round trip.

I went to a person for interview advice two years ago but for the €200 I paid for the hour consultation I feel I learned nothing. Have done lots of extra and co curricular activities , got great feedback from
inspectors over the years during MLL/subject inspection, work as an SEC examiner for orals/written exams, achieved recognition of various schemes in schools, worked on student council, set up a coach to 5km - I could go on as an teaching a long time. I regularly do CPD courses especially in online teaching/improving digital learning within a school.

It’s just what do principals want? Anytime I look for any constructive feed back I get full marks for qualifications and experience. I don’t get full marks in an area called “suitably”. What do schools mean by suitability? I work well with staff and am a very open person and always have a positive attitude. Students through the years have not just praised me for helping them achieve high grades/scholarships but how kind I am and how inclusive I am of ALL students and inspire them to speak the language I teach.

It’s just becoming very disheartening after all the work I done over the years. I don’t want to but just wondering should I just pack up and leave the profession.

sullivlo · 16-06-2020 11:27pm

Snapgal wrote: »

Just did an Zoom interview today and have a feeling was not success. Went for two other in school interviews as they were in my county - one job share and another other interview where I was told the school was not sure of hours yet. Got emails saying I was not successful. Just feeling a bit low as left a CID job after 13 years to move closer home in the West - gaeilge/MFL are my subjects.This is my sixth summer and nowhere close to CID. I love the school where I was teaching last year - lovely principal/staff but no hours available for me - just cover for teachers plus a two hour round trip. I went to a person for interview advice two years ago but for the €200 I paid for the hour consultation I feel I learned nothing. Have lots of extra curricular, got great feedback from
inspectors over the years during Mal/subject inspection, work as an SEC examiner for orals/written exams, achieved recognition of various schemes in schools, worked on student council, set up a coach to 5km - I could go on as an teaching a long time. I regularly do CPD courses especially in online teaching/improving digital learning within a school. It’s just what do principals want? Anytime I look for any constructive feed back I get full marks for qualifications and experience. I don’t get full marks in an area called “suitably”. What do schools mean by suitability? I work well with staff and am a very open person and always have a positive attitude. Students through the years have not just praised me for helping them achieve high grades/scholarships but how kind I am and how inclusive I am of ALL students and inspire them to speak the language I teach. It’s just becoming very disheartening after all the work I done over the years. I don’t want to but just wondering should I just pack up and leave the profession. Saw a post earlier about how some staff rooms are becoming a lonely place and I have to agree. I was lucky the school I taught in last year staff were very open but I have witness in the past total disregard some teachers have for some other teacher. It’s absolutely crazy to think that in this day and age that is still happens. When I was in the school I’d which I spent most of my teaching career I always made sure to be friendly and inclusive of any person especially the person who was new to a school - the students notice this also. it is basic social skills to just be civil to a person and costs nothing to be kind.

Do you know what else costs nothing? Paragraphs.

How do you approach interviews? What research do you do on the school?

Who do you have as your referees? Could they give you some feedback?

Have you considered recording a mock interview with a trusted friend to see yourself how you come across? You obviously have a great CV etc, but sometimes less is more.

Snapgal · 16-06-2020 11:29pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Do you know what else costs nothing? Paragraphs.

How do you approach interviews? What research do you do on the school?

Who do you have as your referees? Could they give you some feedback?

Have you considered recording a mock interview with a trusted friend to see yourself how you come across? You obviously have a great CV etc, but sometimes less is more.

Yes, I should have done paragraphs - apologies.

Thanks for advice

sullivlo · 16-06-2020 11:30pm

Also, jobs being interviewed for now might not actually exist. It could be a readvertisement for someone who was in the job last year.

Furthermore, schools genuinely don't know the situation for timetabling for next year, so they have to be mindful of that too.

smallgarden · 16-06-2020 11:31pm

A lot of interviews at this time of the year are re interviews where there's already someone in the job but they have to re interview them for the position. Don't be disheartened. It could be nothing to do with you at all.

Snapgal · 16-06-2020 11:35pm

If anybody could recommend any interview coach in the west/mid west preferably for teaching interviews who would take me for a mock interview would really appreciate any recommendations. Thank you

TheValeyard · 16-06-2020 11:48pm

Can be tough, but usually interviews around now are already filled by staff currently in the school. You've probably done a great interview but job was basically gone to a staff member who management already know.

killbillvol2 · 17-06-2020 1:13am

To be honest if you didn't feel you learned a lot from the interview coach you probably weren't doing a lot wrong in the first place. If you were terrible at interviews it would have been obvious to you then.

Like others have said, you might just be unlucky in that the jobs are already gone.

Newbie20 · 17-06-2020 1:22am

Like others have said, a lot of the jobs in June are jobs that somebody in the school has already and they just have to officially re-interview for it. You are much more likely to have success with the jobs that come up later in the summer, usually August. With your experience you’ll get something then.

williaint · 17-06-2020 9:42am

You have great subjects and lots of experience! I honestly don't believe it has anything to do with you. I understand you have already left a permanent post in the East of the country, but I'm sure if you were looking for a post there you would have (had) much more success.

Once you start looking for a post in smaller towns or less densely populated areas, it is increasingly about your connection to the area. Jobs in the West of Ireland seem particularly difficult to come by as they don't seem to give CID to "outsiders" who have no connections to the school. I have colleagues from the West who also want to move home but just can't secure a post.

Please don't be hard on yourself, you were in a permanent post for 13 years so you have done it before and can do it again! Some teachers never manage to secure a CID!

Would you consider teaching abroad once the Covid situation calms down?

RealJohn · 17-06-2020 10:11am

smallgarden wrote: »

A lot of interviews at this time of the year are re interviews where there's already someone in the job but they have to re interview them for the position. Don't be disheartened. It could be nothing to do with you at all.

They really need to do away with this requirement. It’s very unfair on teachers who go to interviews in good faith. I understand that it was done to give the impression that it wasn’t a ‘closed shop’ and that everyone had an equal chance of getting jobs, but the truth is that it hasn’t changed anything in terms of the same people getting the jobs - it’s just added extra expense for unnecessary interviews, and extra frustration for those who go to the interviews with no chance of actually getting the job.

fed_u · 17-06-2020 1:57pm

I have nowhere near the same experience as you OP but this year I am finding it very disheartening! I have applied to everything suitable in my area/commute zone and nothing. Two rejection emails without being called for interview - one of which was a school I previously subbed in!! Any courses people would recommend to add to CV??

Postgrad10 · 17-06-2020 4:58pm

You are doing nothing wrong. It’s the way it’s been for years. Often management want newly qualified teachers over those with experience and are confident and have a voice. Do not punish yourself worrying about whether you are doing wrong, you are a good teacher with invaluable skills and someone will see that soon.

Treppen · 17-06-2020 9:57pm

Ahhhh the old "suitability for the school" clause. I got that twice before and find out the successful candidate.
Basically OP you probably are doing everything right, someone who is more "suitable" would more than likely be :

Already working in the school.
Went to the school.
Taught in a very similar school (gender, ethos, similar population etc.)
GAA
Rugby
Related

Time to talk to your second cousin who's married to a principal.
Seriously though give the nepotism a shot.
Go back to your old principal at the school you went to, they all know each other.

TheDriver · 19-06-2020 4:54pm

This is an annual discussion and OP, none of us know you so it is impossible to offer any advice to be honest.
There's the usual talk of nepotism (everyone has an example of it occurring but it does seem rare overall) and year 1 jobs gone (in the majority of the time, the person in situ is reappointed but not always. In my experience, about 2 out of ten don't get their own job so to speak)
I have seen CVs which look amazing but unfortunately doesn't translate into a great teacher. I have seen plenty who do lots, get involved in lots, SEC work etc etc but as a person, they don't come across well.

Like I said, I don't know you and no one here knows you but it's only someone who actually knows you can advise you accordingly.

TheDriver · 19-06-2020 4:59pm

RealJohn wrote: »

They really need to do away with this requirement. It’s very unfair on teachers who go to interviews in good faith. I understand that it was done to give the impression that it wasn’t a ‘closed shop’ and that everyone had an equal chance of getting jobs, but the truth is that it hasn’t changed anything in terms of the same people getting the jobs - it’s just added extra expense for unnecessary interviews, and extra frustration for those who go to the interviews with no chance of actually getting the job.

It's either this or back to the EPT days. The jobs are not always gone but majority would see the person in the job reappointed. If the school is growing, they may take on a 2nd person from the round of interviews or in an ETB, another school may use the panel.I have seen plenty secure posts because they were impressive even though they didn't get the main job.
e.g. School appoints Mary as Irish teacher in June. Mary tells school in Aug that she's actually going elsewhere. School advertises again but selection isn't great. Appoints John for the year. When they advertise the following year as the year 2, the field of candidates is open again and the candidates are far more impressive than John. Hence John doesn't get reappointed. If Mary had stayed on , she probably would have gotten reappointed.
It would be very bad if people secured CID from the first interview, it wouldn't serve any of our schools well.

Snapgal · 19-06-2020 7:52pm

TheDriver wrote: »

This is an annual discussion and OP, none of us know you so it is impossible to offer any advice to be honest.
There's the usual talk of nepotism (everyone has an example of it occurring but it does seem rare overall) and year 1 jobs gone (in the majority of the time, the person in situ is reappointed but not always. In my experience, about 2 out of ten don't get their own job so to speak)
I have seen CVs which look amazing but unfortunately doesn't translate into a great teacher. I have seen plenty who do lots, get involved in lots, SEC work etc etc but as a person, they don't come across well.

Like I said, I don't know you and no one here knows you but it's only someone who actually knows you can advise you accordingly.

Thank you. I must not be a great teacher so - will have to look into a new career so

s1ippy · 19-06-2020 8:07pm

TheDriver · 19-06-2020 9:15pm

Snapgal wrote: »

Thank you. I must not be a great teacher so - will have to look into a new career so

OP I never said that.

mtoutlemonde · 19-06-2020 9:29pm

Snapgal wrote: »

Thank you. I must not be a great teacher so - will have to look into a new career so

That's not true! I'm surprised at the above comment by TheDriver who is always informative to us from a management point of view. You have been in constant employment and that stands to you. I'm in the same area as yourself and it is very difficult to get an interview let alone a job. You have a lot to offer a school and it will come around. Principals don't understand how difficult job seeking is and then when you get that interview, the nerves can get to you as the job would mean so much to you and that can impinge on your performance. Also some jobs are gone and interview boards have a great time making interviewees squirm. There is plenty of time yet. I think a CV drop to schools in the area was the best thing I did. A foot in the foot in the door is worth it's weight in gold.

Truthvader · 19-06-2020 9:38pm

Maybe its not you;its them.

F them all. Be yourself and don't second guess anything or exhaust yourself researching what "they" want or expect. Do your thing as best you can. Everything else is nonsense

killbillvol2 · 19-06-2020 10:11pm

Snapgal wrote: »

Thank you. I must not be a great teacher so - will have to look into a new career so

How you could take that interpretation from The Driver's post is beyond me.

Treppen · 19-06-2020 10:32pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

How you could take that interpretation from The Driver's post is beyond me.

Ah shur I can imagine they're just getting frustrated. It's a tough gig.
Listening to all the medical folk today on the radio, came back/graduated , now they are wondering why they aren't being offered contracts.
Don't tell us about it, ask us about it.
The long term,ad hoc subbing nature of teaching stinks.
Since the croke park S&S hours were introduced it really put the squeeze on teacher who might have been able to survive on more frequent 'random' days subbing. That's more or less gone now.

No matter what circumstance a teacher is out these days, the S&S is the first port of call, and i'll bet a lot of schools claim the sub hours for it, despite subs not seeing a penny of it.

Blush_01 · 19-06-2020 10:43pm

killbillvol2 wrote: »

How you could take that interpretation from The Driver's post is beyond me.

I thought the same, I had to re-read it a few times to see if I'd missed something.

OP, I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time. Hopefully the right thing will come.to your attention soon and you'll forget all about this frustration.

AndrewJRenko · 20-06-2020 10:09am

Was your interview coach experienced in the education sector? If not, they may not have added a whole lot of value.

Have you any friendly principals or chairpersons experienced in teacher interviews who could advise you, or better still, who would participate in a mock interview for you and give you feedback?

It's not a great time of year to be looking for favours from principals, but give it a shot.

strawberrie · 20-06-2020 12:08pm

None of us know you personally here, so all we can do is offer our personal experience of interviews and encourage you not to get disheartened. I firmly believe that what is meant for you won't pass you by and would say don't give up.
Every interview panel and school is different, some may have staff reinterviewing, some may need a bit of extra help in a niche area that they are keeping an eye out for...who knows!
I'm at primary level, but my approach to interviewing is that it's the qualifications that get you the interview but it's the person that gets the job. Looking for someone who comes across as friendly, smiles, shakes our hands, makes eye contact. If they are nervous it's ok for them to acknowledge it..it is clear to us that this job and interview mean a lot to them. Have good answers to key questions on Child Protection and following school policies if incidents arise. Someone who has clear interest in teaching and who I'd be happy having my own children taught by. When you are asked if you have any questions at the end do say something, even if it's just to articulate how this job in this school because of x is your ideal position and thank the interviewers for giving you the opportunity to meet them today.
Believe it or not I have often been more nervous on the interview panel than as a candidate. Getting the right person for our school, children and staff is crucial and a 15-20 minute interview is a terribly short time to get to know someone.
Best foot forward, the summer hasn't even started at primary yet so still loads of interviewing time before Sept.
Good luck!

funkypumpkins · 20-06-2020 2:08pm

I have been in this situation but I was a NQT in the UK in Languages. Had so many rejections and scrutiny at interviews. Schools are very political and vary greatly. In other words, what one school considers you great at, the other school will think you are crap. One of my first NQT schools said I was great at planning and engaging, yet the school I went to after that had never anything nice to say about me. Planning was crap, could not engage students. However, it was very clear they did not want me long term at the school and were making my life harder so that their student teacher trainee would be a shoe in for next year.

I guess what I am trying to say is schools are rife with bullying, nepotism and subjective ideas on what a good teacher is. Despite it all, I still aim to stay teaching in languages. I buy the books, do CPD, fight the teaching council for reg, apply to schools that are looking for Spanish teachers whole TC number is temporary...I try to keep my self worth in that I can make a good teacher and that resilience really is a skill to master in a profession where people will take you down for that own ill benefit.

You sound like a great teacher who, like me has just been unlucky to work in school that don't value you and politically the law of land didn't go in your favour. But you are still in teaching so it is for you. It's just unfortunately there are a lot of bad eggs who hide behind their reputations. It really is a question of knowing your value, even if that means that you value better working conditions to continue working in teaching, in another area of education ( I am a SNA too so another option if I can't get teaching here, for example) or a clean break.

Snapgal · 20-06-2020 7:39pm

strawberrie wrote: »

None of us know you personally here, so all we can do is offer our personal experience of interviews and encourage you not to get disheartened. I firmly believe that what is meant for you won't pass you by and would say don't give up.
Every interview panel and school is different, some may have staff reinterviewing, some may need a bit of extra help in a niche area that they are keeping an eye out for...who knows!
I'm at primary level, but my approach to interviewing is that it's the qualifications that get you the interview but it's the person that gets the job. Looking for someone who comes across as friendly, smiles, shakes our hands, makes eye contact. If they are nervous it's ok for them to acknowledge it..it is clear to us that this job and interview mean a lot to them. Have good answers to key questions on Child Protection and following school policies if incidents arise. Someone who has clear interest in teaching and who I'd be happy having my own children taught by. When you are asked if you have any questions at the end do say something, even if it's just to articulate how this job in this school because of x is your ideal position and thank the interviewers for giving you the opportunity to meet them today.
Believe it or not I have often been more nervous on the interview panel than as a candidate. Getting the right person for our school, children and staff is crucial and a 15-20 minute interview is a terribly short time to get to know someone.
Best foot forward, the summer hasn't even started at primary yet so still loads of interviewing time before Sept.
Good luck!

Thank you for advice but I have done exactly all of what you have said in your advice - I am in the last few years not nervous especially during interview and even made effort to talk to person who brings me to interview so there is no no awkward silence. Always think of poor students I have examined for the SEC orals through the years and I know they are so nervous that I have a quick chit chat with a bit of humour in the target language to put them at ease.

Its very hard to tell the interview board in 30 minutes all that I have done in seventeen years. I am also well used over the years in receiving very positive feedback from inspectors - I was a subject coordinator for many years and was coordinator during one inspection. Students who never told me but made sure to tell an inspector during an MLL inspection of how much I inspire them - inspector told me that. I have volunteered teaching in India and Nepal and have helped students from these countries - I became a teacher to not just teach my subjects but to also inspire and help children from different cultures and backgrounds.

Even told after last interview by principal that I did a fantastic interview.
I dont know - just looking at other career options with Gaeilge and MFL. I just cannnot face every summer especially at my age with such job uncertainty. If I had had a choice again I would never havd left my CID position. I just thought by listening to media Irish and MFL teachers were sought highly after and thought with all my expertise and I could bring so
much to a school.

Seaandwind · 20-06-2020 7:41pm

I have been teaching for a number of years and this year finally got CID. I think a lot of it (unfortunately) comes down to some luck with people just being in the right place and the right time for a position. I know myself I worked incredibly hard but wasn’t lucky. But I didn’t give up.
I always asked for feedback after an interview and found I learned from this.

I did a lot of CPD every year in a range of different things (subject specific, wellbeing, SEN)
I know that the local education centres in each county are running courses online so that might help. As far as I can see you can do courses from any centre. I have signed up to Hibernia for their summer courses. Some of them are more primary focused (I am secondary) but I did some in the past and was told it was the difference between me and the next candidate and I got the job - so CPD is definitely looked at. I go to my local subject branch meetings. Teachercpd has courses too.

Not sure if it makes a big difference really but it was advice I was given - I had my CV on really good quality paper, slightly thicker than the ordinary paper. I always sent my application as soon as I could after the advertisement went up as well - not leaving it to the last minute or day.

Good luck.

Snapgal · 20-06-2020 7:46pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Was your interview coach experienced in the education sector? If not, they may not have added a whole lot of value.

Have you any friendly principals or chairpersons experienced in teacher interviews who could advise you, or better still, who would participate in a mock interview for you and give you feedback?

It's not a great time of year to be looking for favours from principals, but give it a shot.

Yes, the interview skills coach was in area of education. I dont know of any friendly principals who would do a mock interview with me. I did an intense interview preparation and mock interview with the principal and deputy of school where I left my CID job to move home. Gave me positive feedback and areas where I could improve but back then I had not done an interview in over 13 years.

Snapgal · 20-06-2020 7:59pm

Seaandwind wrote: »

I have been teaching for a number of years and this year finally got CID. I think a lot of it (unfortunately) comes down to some luck with people just being in the right place and the right time for a position. I know myself I worked incredibly hard but wasn’t lucky. But I didn’t give up.
I always asked for feedback after an interview and found I learned from this.

I did a lot of CPD every year in a range of different things (subject specific, wellbeing, SEN)
I know that the local education centres in each county are running courses online so that might help. As far as I can see you can do courses from any centre. I have signed up to Hibernia for their summer courses. Some of them are more primary focused (I am secondary) but I did some in the past and was told it was the difference between me and the next candidate and I got the job - so CPD is definitely looked at. I go to my local subject branch meetings. Teachercpd has courses too.

Not sure if it makes a big difference really but it was advice I was given - I had my CV on really good quality paper, slightly thicker than the ordinary paper. I always sent my application as soon as I could after the advertisement went up as well - not leaving it to the last minute or day.

Good luck.

Thank you.Well done on getting CID.

Yes I do CPD in local education centres during the year, am doing a few at the moment for summer, go to annual subject meetings (hard to do all language meetings as they are all in november on a saturday a long commute from where I live) and go to branch meetings of MFL. I even was on committee of school I was in two years ago to set up a digital learning plan and did lota of extra CPD training during my free time.
I must look at Hibernia CPD - what turned me off last time I looked was how much you had to pay. I must look again - only if the CPD course is what would principals want I would pay for it.
I turned down an offer for a job where principal was offering me to do resource and would have got free training as a SEN teacher in a local university. She thought that i came across as a very caring person and have volunteered with both adults and teenagers with mental disablities.I should have accepted it. I turned it down as got an offer from a closer school where principal told me that teacher was retiring - one year forward in that school i didnt get job as a someone related to principal got the job. You learn the hard way.

Interview advice - where am I going wrong?

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