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Is organic farming sustainable in Ireland?
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24-12-2010 1:09pm#1One of the great projects of Trevor Sargent when he was Minister for Horticulture was a push on farmers markets and the expansion of Organic Food production in Ireland. But with the current economic downturn and our climate is it really sustainable or a pipe dream?
My opinion is that organic farming has its merits but its too exclusive and limited to sustain the majority of the Irish population. Apart from Dairy and Meat(96% of our organic land is under pastures and meadows) the other organic areas are too limited to have an impact and the Irish climate limits us. Bord Bia have come out with reports like the below in recent years but I would never consider them the most reliable source and they seem to have a fondness of finding results that the Minister at the time wishes to read. So is Irish Organic Farming another policy failure of the Greens?
Bord Bia 2008Organic sales increase by 82% - from €57 million to €104 million
45% of Irish grocery shoppers bought organic produce in the last month
According to new research announced today at Bord Bia’s National Organic Food Conference, organic sales in Ireland have increased by 82%, reaching a value of €104 million in the year to July 2008, compared to €57 million in the year to July 2006*The research also revealed 45% of Irish grocery shoppers purchased an organic product in the last month, a significant increase from 20% in 2003.
During his address Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries & Food Trevor Sargent T.D., said “Organic farming has a major role to play in meeting the ever increasing challenges of depleting oil supplies, climate change and the provision of a sustainable supply of food. More farmers producing organic food here in Ireland would mean more jobs at home and less energy used worldwide.The future is bright for organic food and farming in Ireland and I am totally committed to helping the organic sector grow and develop to its full potential.”
Latest Eurostat Figures on Organic Farming in EU & Norway
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Organic_farming_statistics0
Comments
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Corsendonk wrote: »One of the great projects of Trevor Sargent when he was Minister for Horticulture was a push on farmers markets and the expansion of Organic Food production in Ireland. But with the current economic downturn and our climate is it really sustainable or a pipe dream?
My opinion is that organic farming has its merits but its too exclusive and limited to sustain the majority of the Irish population. Apart from Dairy and Meat(96% of our organic land is under pastures and meadows) the other organic areas are too limited to have an impact and the Irish climate limits us. Bord Bia have come out with reports like the below in recent years but I would never consider them the most reliable source and they seem to have a fondness of finding results that the Minister at the time wishes to read. So is Irish Organic Farming another policy failure of the Greens?
Bord Bia 2008
Latest Eurostat Figures on Organic Farming in EU & Norway
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Organic_farming_statistics
Do the stats at the link you provide contradict the Bord Bia figures? Have you some analysis to hand that someone has done on the viability of organic farming, or is this just your personal impression of the industry?0 -
Corsendonk wrote: »One of the great projects of Trevor Sargent when he was Minister for Horticulture was a push on farmers markets and the expansion of Organic Food production in Ireland. But with the current economic downturn and our climate is it really sustainable or a pipe dream?
My opinion is that organic farming has its merits but its too exclusive and limited to sustain the majority of the Irish population. Apart from Dairy and Meat(96% of our organic land is under pastures and meadows) the other organic areas are too limited to have an impact and the Irish climate limits us. Bord Bia have come out with reports like the below in recent years but I would never consider them the most reliable source and they seem to have a fondness of finding results that the Minister at the time wishes to read. So is Irish Organic Farming another policy failure of the Greens?
Bord Bia 2008
Latest Eurostat Figures on Organic Farming in EU & Norway
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Organic_farming_statistics
I've seen farmers markets all over the place. It's all foreign cheese, olives, and I'd be surprised if 10% of the goods sold there have anything to do with Irish Farmers. Might you be confusing Country Markets with Farmers Markets?
If you are trying to revert to a situation where the Irish Population is fed by Irish farmers, and we are reduced to eating only produce grown in Ireland, I'm afraid that battle was lost years ago, thankfully. Irish Farmers export much more foodstuffs than we import, and it would be a terrible step ro return to an isolationist society where we were not able to import oranges from lemons, olive oil, macadamia nuts and a whole host of wonderful foods which make all our lives more interesting and worthwhile.
I wonder how much support Trevor Sargeant and his fellow greens have for their exciting and innovative plans for us all? I'm sure we'll see the full extent of support in the country after the upcoming elections.0 -
I'd personally love to see more organic community supported agriculture in this country, especially in the east. On a local level it works very well for everyone involved.
For anyone unfamiliar with the model, you pay a farm a set sum of money at the start of the year, and each week during harvest season you pick up or get delivered your share of that week's produce. It gives some peace of mind and security to the farm while fostering a good sense of community and friendship. It also cuts out the worst stage of production, the reseller.
But on a national level? Is organic farming sustainable in Ireland? Well you'd need a LOT of land, capital and labor to make it work. I'm not sure we meet any of those three requirements right now.0 -
Do the stats at the link you provide contradict the Bord Bia figures? Have you some analysis to hand that someone has done on the viability of organic farming, or is this just your personal impression of the industry?
Nope because the Bord Bia stats are retail/consumer stats and the Euro stats are agricultural/production stats if you read them. It was just to provide further information for people with a poor undestanding of the organic food sector in Ireland. Why would I use totally different subject stats to contradict one another?
Its my opinion thats why I started the paragraph "In my opinion". Sorry if it wasn't more obvious for you. Basically the greens had a vision to increase organic production in Ireland with farmers markets selling local produced organic products but the industry is heavily skewed towards animals and their by products. Their are one or two large organic growers of produce, small local suppliers but as one poster here points out alot of the products sold at these venues is either/and- isn't Irish
- isn't organic
- isn't local
Farners Markets don't seem to be regulated in the way supermarkets are inspected by the Dept of Agriculture to ensure they correctly display country of origins. People sometimes assume that when carrots have soil on them and tops they must be organic or local.
Secondly the vast majority of us still buy are groceries in the major multiples and even when times were good have you ever seen anyone with a full basket of organic products at the checkout? Typically organic food costs 10%-40% more than the conventional line. Google it and you will get any number of cost models that organic farming is more expensive mainly due to the extra labour costs and poorer yields.
The majority of shoppers that can afford organic like to buy one or two lines to feel that we are doing are bit or the store ran out of conventional product and we ended up buying the organic ones or that we actually like the organic product above its conventional competitor lines. Thats why I would take the Bord Bia data with a pinch of salt.
The consumer can also be vague on what they see as organic, A well know NI potato supplier sells a Fertilser Free Brand of potatoes in shops and supermarkets throughout Ireland, Several people I have questioned that bought this line assume its organic.0 -
OctavarIan wrote: »I'd personally love to see more organic community supported agriculture in this country, especially in the east. On a local level it works very well for everyone involved.
For anyone unfamiliar with the model, you pay a farm a set sum of money at the start of the year, and each week during harvest season you pick up or get delivered your share of that week's produce. It gives some peace of mind and security to the farm while fostering a good sense of community and friendship. It also cuts out the worst stage of production, the reseller.
But on a national level? Is organic farming sustainable in Ireland? Well you'd need a LOT of land, capital and labor to make it work. I'm not sure we meet any of those three requirements right now.
Climate is essential too.0 -
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Corsendonk wrote: »... provide further information for people with a poor undestanding of the organic food sector in Ireland. Why would I use totally different subject stats to contradict one another?
Its my opinion thats why I started the paragraph "In my opinion". Sorry if it wasn't more obvious for you. Basically the greens had a vision to increase organic production in Ireland with farmers markets selling local produced organic products but the industry is heavily skewed towards animals and their by products. Their are one or two large organic growers of produce, small local suppliers but as one poster here points out alot of the products sold at these venues is either/and- isn't Irish
- isn't organic
- isn't local
Farners Markets don't seem to be regulated in the way supermarkets are inspected by the Dept of Agriculture to ensure they correctly display country of origins. People sometimes assume that when carrots have soil on them and tops they must be organic or local...
It seems you are still confused about the diference between "Farmers Markets" and "Country Markets", so perhaps your claim that "people" have a poor understanding is more widespread that even you realise!
Farmers markets in ireland clain to have;- Organic Fruit & Vegetables (Largest selection on display anywhere in Ireland - over 200 varieties)
- Organic & Free Range Meats
- Organic Eggs
- Organic Bread & Speciality Cakes
- Organic & Farmhouse Cheeses
- Organic Herbs, whole food, Craft Bakeries
- Islamic Food & Gourmet Pies
- Chatuturie & French Paterise
- Fresh Fish & Shellfish
- Free Trade Coffee beans and teas, Juice Bar
- Artisan foods including oils, olives, salads, chutneys, pasta, nuts, jams, chocolates, home made fudge, wine.
- Mexican, Japanese, Italian, French, German, Lebanese, Indian and Malaysian Foods Stalls
- Craft Stalls: Toys, Linen, Jewellery, clothes & Jewellery
- Massage, bottled waters, Plants & Fresh Flowers
Just because it's called "Farmers markets" might conjure up an image of Irish farmers toiling the soil, but don't be deceived by the name. The people involved in the "Farmers Markets" are generally traders who, for example, buy fruit and vegatables in the dublin markets and, just like any other retailer in ireland, sell them to consumers. Just because they do it outside in supermarket car parks, or wherever else, does not mean they have any connection to "farmers" and the name is just a clever piece of marketing.
The Country Markets Ltd was established in 1946 by the Irish Homespun Society and the Irish Countrywomen’s Association. Country Markets Limited was established as a totally independent registered co-operative Society and was affiliated to I.C.O.S. (Irish Co-operative Organisation Society) in early 1947.
The aim of Country Markets Limited is to market, by co-operative means, producer members’ good fresh quality farm, garden and home produce and traditional crafts using our natural resources. Marketing co-operatively in this way it is hoped to enhance, in a small way the family income.
Generally speaking, the members of the Country Markets, themselves, grow the produce they bring to the markets for sale. It's important to understand the difference. If you are in any doubt, go to a "Farmers market" and then go to a "Country Market" (http://www.countrymarkets.ie/our-markets).
The Greens are no doubt well intentioned, but the Country Markets have been going for decades before the Green Party was even a twinkle in the eye of Christopher Fettes.0 -
It seems you are still confused about the diference between "Farmers Markets" and "Country Markets", so perhaps your claim that "people" have a poor understanding is more widespread that even you realise!
Farmers markets in ireland clain to have;- Organic Fruit & Vegetables (Largest selection on display anywhere in Ireland - over 200 varieties)
- Organic & Free Range Meats
- Organic Eggs
- Organic Bread & Speciality Cakes
- Organic & Farmhouse Cheeses
- Organic Herbs, whole food, Craft Bakeries
- Islamic Food & Gourmet Pies
- Chatuturie & French Paterise
- Fresh Fish & Shellfish
- Free Trade Coffee beans and teas, Juice Bar
- Artisan foods including oils, olives, salads, chutneys, pasta, nuts, jams, chocolates, home made fudge, wine.
- Mexican, Japanese, Italian, French, German, Lebanese, Indian and Malaysian Foods Stalls
- Craft Stalls: Toys, Linen, Jewellery, clothes & Jewellery
- Massage, bottled waters, Plants & Fresh Flowers
Just because it's called "Farmers markets" might conjure up an image of Irish farmers toiling the soil, but don't be deceived by the name. The people involved in the "Farmers Markets" are generally traders who, for example, buy fruit and vegatables in the dublin markets and, just like any other retailer in ireland, sell them to consumers. Just because they do it outside in supermarket car parks, or wherever else, does not mean they have any connection to "farmers" and the name is just a clever piece of marketing.
The Country Markets Ltd was established in 1946 by the Irish Homespun Society and the Irish Countrywomen’s Association. Country Markets Limited was established as a totally independent registered co-operative Society and was affiliated to I.C.O.S. (Irish Co-operative Organisation Society) in early 1947.
The aim of Country Markets Limited is to market, by co-operative means, producer members’ good fresh quality farm, garden and home produce and traditional crafts using our natural resources. Marketing co-operatively in this way it is hoped to enhance, in a small way the family income.
Generally speaking, the members of the Country Markets, themselves, grow the produce they bring to the markets for sale. It's important to understand the difference. If you are in any doubt, go to a "Farmers market" and then go to a "Country Market" (http://www.countrymarkets.ie/our-markets).
The Greens are no doubt well intentioned, but the Country Markets have been going for decades before the Green Party was even a twinkle in the eye of Christopher Fettes.
Did I ever mention country markets? While you have twice, are you connected to them?
I am more specifically talking about the organic sector and the green policy that farmers markets would supply the irish consumer directly with organic produce. Is it sustainable?0 -
If Trevor Sargent, the failed minister for carrotts, had his way the whole world would change to organic food production.
There would mass starvation and famines within a few years. Only the rich would be able to purchase food!
Of course the consequent collapse of the worlds population, would lead to less fossile fuel consumption, less pollution, less plastic bags, less of all the stuff the greens don't like.
Hey presto ............. one of the great desires of the greens would have been achieved. A greener, cleaner, world.
This organic food thing is a sinister plot coming form the bicycle clip brigade:mad:0 -
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Less of the conspiracy theories and pejorative language please.0 -
The real question would be is inorganic farming sustainable?
How much more fertiliser, pesticides and antibiotics can we throw at the environment before we run into serious problems?0 -
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I think we need to have a look at the work of Joe Salatin. His farm called Polyface Farm is beyond organic, it's efficient and profitable too. It mimics nature in every way possible. It's local, he only sell to those within a two hour drive. This is what we should really be promoting.0
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Ghost Estate wrote: »The real question would be is inorganic farming sustainable?
How much more fertiliser, pesticides and antibiotics can we throw at the environment before we run into serious problems?
Should have thought we had long past that point.
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I think we need to have a look at the work of Joe Salatin. His farm called Polyface Farm is beyond organic, it's efficient and profitable too. It mimics nature in every way possible. It's local, he only sell to those within a two hour drive. This is what we should really be promoting.
There is always space for one or two model farms like the Salatin model but your not exactly going to feed Ireland or have a sustainable organic industry. To have a successful organic farm you need one a lot of land for rotation purposes and a good mix of livestock and horticulture production. Climate as we have said before is a major restriction in Ireland so if you wish to over come that you need a cheap and sustainable energy source to provide heating otherwise the range of fruits and vegetables avaliable to the consumer throughout the year ebbs and flows or can not be grown in Ireland. Are Irish consumers prepared to live with seasonality?
Would the carbon footprint of growing organic food abroad in a thirdworld/ or warmer climate country and shipping to Ireland be less than trying to grow in Ireland? Some experts think so.0 -
Ghost Estate wrote: »The real question would be is inorganic farming sustainable?
How much more fertiliser, pesticides and antibiotics can we throw at the environment before we run into serious problems?
At the end of the day farms are a business so if the farmer can limit the inputs of pesticides, fertiliser and antibiotics they save themselves money. Fertiliser prices have shot through the roof in the last few years and supermarkets now are paying less than they did 5 years ago.
Biological controls have been used in the last 15 years to reduce pesticide usage and the Irish farmer has less pesticides at his disposal because he can only use whats licensed on the Irish market and chemical companies are unwilling to pay for the license for such a small customer base.0 -
Is organic farming sustainable in Ireland?
If the Greens climate change bill passes
Them kiss goodbye to a large chunk of farming, organic or otherwise in Ireland.0 -
Corsendonk wrote: »There is always space for one or two model farms like the Salatin model but your not exactly going to feed Ireland or have a sustainable organic industry. To have a successful organic farm you need one a lot of land for rotation purposes and a good mix of livestock and horticulture production.
Why not? Ok there's no vegetables produced but what about the:
40,000lbs of beef,
30,000lbs of pork,
25,000 dozen eggs,
20,000 broilers,
1000 Turkeys and 1000 Rabbits produced all on only 100 acres.
In a similar set up Castlemaine Farm, of Co.Roscommon have blended livestock and Arable systems successfully. It really depends on the quality of land. Grazed beef and Dairy are most popular and easy to do in Ireland given our climate so why not just intensify that grazing with more species?
Livestock and Horticulture systems as you mentioned above will work in the good vegetable land of north county Dublin,Wexford or around Cork City here vegetable production could be emphasized to counter the lack of production in other areas.0 -
Why not? Ok there's no vegetables produced but what about the:
40,000lbs of beef,
30,000lbs of pork,
25,000 dozen eggs,
20,000 broilers,
1000 Turkeys and 1000 Rabbits produced all on only 100 acres.
In a similar set up Castlemaine Farm, of Co.Roscommon have blended livestock and Arable systems successfully. It really depends on the quality of land. Grazed beef and Dairy are most popular and easy to do in Ireland given our climate so why not just intensify that grazing with more species?
Livestock and Horticulture systems as you mentioned above will work in the good vegetable land of north county Dublin,Wexford or around Cork City here vegetable production could be emphasized to counter the lack of production in other areas.
I live in North Co Dublin actually and I know a little about the horticulture side. If you have to ship in Organic FYM from the west of Ireland it doesnt really work. Much more sustainable if you have mixed farms as you can feed the waste veg to the animals and use the FYM to fertlise the fields or use as plant feed or hot beds or as an energy source. Also with conventional farming along side organic your going to have spray drift. Remember more organic products fail pesticide testing than conventional because organic have no acceptable MRL. So you need to have a sustanial block of land, this area is a patch work quilt of different land owners or turn the whole area organic.0 -
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What nonsense. Where's the evidence for such a claim?If the Greens climate change bill passes
Them kiss goodbye to a large chunk of farming, organic or otherwise in Ireland.0 -
Ghost Estate wrote: »The real question would be is inorganic farming sustainable?
How much more fertiliser, pesticides and antibiotics can we throw at the environment before we run into serious problems?
Interesting quote from the Green Party when you consider the rant about farmers using pesticides.Pesticides
It is now known that the most damage by pesticide and herbicide residues to waterways is done by councils and amateur gardeners spraying along the verges of paths and roadways, where the runoff goes directly down the drains. Certain pesticides and herbicides should no longer be available straight over the counter but should only be purchased with a licence from designated outlets, as in Germany.0 -
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Corsendonk wrote: »Anyone got a link to the climate change bill draft and not a ranting newspaper article?
http://www.environ.ie/en/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,25002,en.pdf
If you read it, you'll note the clear absence of sector-specific targets.0 -
http://www.environ.ie/en/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,25002,en.pdf
If you read it, you'll note the clear absence of sector-specific targets.
Then who pays for it :rolleyes:0 -
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Atilathehun wrote: »If Trevor Sargent, the failed minister for carrotts, had his way the whole world would change to organic food production.
There would mass starvation and famines within a few years. Only the rich would be able to purchase food!
Of course the consequent collapse of the worlds population, would lead to less fossile fuel consumption, less pollution, less plastic bags, less of all the stuff the greens don't like.
Hey presto ............. one of the great desires of the greens would have been achieved. A greener, cleaner, world.
This organic food thing is a sinister plot coming form the bicycle clip brigade:mad:
Yeah - thank God for Monsanto and DDT:rolleyes:0 -
The market for organics continues to increase worldwide on the back of among other things food scares like the one recently in Germany, problems with contaminated milk in China etc.. Unfortunately this country has failed to capitalise on this (Ireland is at the bottom of the EU league for land under organic production) due to hostilty from vested interests in big-agri business and the failure of state bodies like Teagasc to move with the times:(0
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The market for organics continues to increase worldwide on the back of among other things food scares like the one recently in Germany, problems with contaminated milk in China etc.. Unfortunately this country has failed to capitalise on this (Ireland is at the bottom of the EU league for land under organic production) due to hostilty from vested interests in big-agri business and the failure of state bodies like Teagasc to move with the times:(
Ah, the oul "hostility from vested interests in big agribusiness". Organic farming is also an "agri business" and run by those with a "vested interest" in making it work. Both organic, and conventional, forms of agriculture are valuable and worthwhile, and to imply that we'd all be better off with only organic farming, seems to be avoiding some realities.0 -
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The market for organics continues to increase worldwide on the back of among other things food scares like the one recently in Germany, problems with contaminated milk in China etc.. Unfortunately this country has failed to capitalise on this (Ireland is at the bottom of the EU league for land under organic production) due to hostilty from vested interests in big-agri business and the failure of state bodies like Teagasc to move with the times:(
I think you mean its not sustainable in our climate on any large scale. Of course the organic market will increase worldwide as certain areas of the world economy experience booms, As I explained before apart from the odd fruit and vegetable grower most of our organic sector is dairy/meat due to our climate. Italy, Spain and Greece sit on top of the organic production table because they have good sunny climates needed to produce crops all year round.
Who are these big vested interests in big agr business? I never actually hear any names mentioned.0 -
http://www.environ.ie/en/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,25002,en.pdf
If you read it, you'll note the clear absence of sector-specific targets.
Has any research been done to quantify what emmission levels each sector of industry produces in Ireland?0 -
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Corsendonk wrote: »
Who are these big vested interests in big agr business? I never actually hear any names mentioned.
Monsanto, Bayer, Novartis to name but a few etc.0 -
Corsendonk wrote: »Italy, Spain and Greece sit on top of the organic production table because they have good sunny climates needed to produce crops all year round.
.
Actually Austria has the highest % of land under organic production - the likes of organic beef, poultry, lamb could all be produced here, adding major value to Irish food exports0 -
Genetically modified crops are the key to human survival, says UK's chief scientistMoves to block cultivation of genetically modified crops in the developing world can no longer be tolerated on ethical or moral grounds, the government's chief scientist, Sir John Beddington, has warned. He said the world faced "a perfect storm" of issues that could lead to widespread food shortages and public unrest over the next few decades. His warning comes in the wake of food riots in north Africa and rising global concern about mounting food prices.
"A number of very important factors are about to change our world," said Beddington, an expert in population biology. "Its population is rising by six million every month and will reach a total of around 9,000 million by 2050. At the same time, it is estimated that by 2030 more than 60% of the population will be living in cities and will no longer be involved in growing crops or raising domestic animals. And on top of that the world's population is getting more prosperous and able to pay for more food."
Beddington said these factors indicated that the world was going to need 40% more food, 30% more water and 50% more energy by the middle of the century – at a time when climate change was starting to have serious environmental impacts on the planet, flooding coastal plains, spreading deserts and raising temperatures. "We could cut down tropical rain forests and plant crops on the savannahs to grow more food, but that would leave us even more vulnerable to the impact of global warming and climate change. We needed these regions to help absorb carbon dioxide emissions, after all."
Beddington said humanity had to face the fact that every means to improve food production should now be employed, including widespread use of new biotechnological techniques in farming. He stressed that no harm should be inflicted on humans or the environment. His remarks were made in advance of publication tomorrow of a major report, "The Future of Food and Farming".
His office's report is a specific attempt to highlight moves that could halt devastation of the planet. Crucially, the report will be presented tomorrow not just to the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra), but also to the Department for International Development, which directs UK foreign aid. Beddington said he would present details of his office's report in Washington next month. He also hoped it would be debated at other events, including the G8 and G20 summits.
He emphasised the role of modern biotechnological techniques, including GM crops, in the future of global food production. "There will be no silver bullet, but it is very hard to see how it would be remotely sensible to justify not using new technologies such as GM. Just look at the problems that the world faces: water shortages and salination of existing water supplies, for example. GM crops should be able to deal with that."
Cutting CO2/Methane will hit farmers In ireland of all kinds, or worse force them to buy tax credits with money they dont have
While trying to make Ireland "GM Free" would cut us out of a large market where "smart and green" jobs can be created
I hate this "Luddite" streak in the environmentalist movement, its selfish, short-sighted and will result in misery, already several african countries blocked food AID which was from GM crops with the result of their people starving :rolleyes: thats ****ing insane0 -
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ei.sdraob, this is not a thread about GM foods in Africa, it is a thread about organic production in Ireland. Try to keep it on topic.
And this is the last time you will be asked to stop making sweeping derogative statements about environmentalists. It's rude, agressive and entirely unnecessary.0 -
Genetically modified crops are the key to human survival, says UK's chief scientist
Cutting CO2/Methane will hit farmers In ireland of all kinds, or worse force them to buy tax credits with money they dont have
While trying to make Ireland "GM Free" would cut us out of a large market where "smart and green" jobs can be created
I hate this "Luddite" streak in the environmentalist movement, its selfish, short-sighted and will result in misery, already several african countries blocked food AID which was from GM crops with the result of their people starving :rolleyes: thats ****ing insane
I suggest you do some research on why there are food shortages in Africa before you go promoting the agenda of the likes of Monsanto - for a good example start with the Situation in Zimbabwe.0 -
And this is the last time you will be asked to stop making sweeping derogative statements about environmentalists. It's rude, agressive and entirely unnecessary.
Fair enough let me explain where I am coming from before you slam me.
I was expressing my anger at the environment/green movement being responsible for turning away food aid which resulted in deaths. Not everyone might be aware of the ugly reality of being "green".
People need to know that their "green" ideology sometimes results in misery. And not just when it comes to GM foods .
I am not promoting Monsanto's agenda for gods sake. Turning away food aid because it comes from GM food is perverted and dangerous, its good enough for americans to eat but not good enough for starving people being given free aid?I suggest you do some research on why there are food shortages in Africa before you go promoting the agenda of the likes of Monsanto - for a good example start with the Situation in Zimbabwe.
http://www.just-food.com/news/authorities-turn-away-gm-food-aid_id71090.aspxAs 1.75 million Zambian people face starvation, the country's officials have turned away a shipment of maize sent as part of an international emergency relief effort, because the maize is genetically modified.
The drought stricken country in southern Africa has suffered severe food shortages as crops failed. Rural populations are meanwhile finding it more difficult to recover from hunger due to a 20% infection rate from HIV/AIDs. Zambia's President Levy Mwanawasa declared a national emergency with regard to the food shortages in May.
Zambia fears however that importing GM maize could potentially damage its ability to export agricultural products to markets with strict GM restrictions. Many critics also suggest that the US is using situations such as this to increase global tolerance towards GM foods.
Newstead Zimba, Zambia's minister of information, is quoted in the Financial Times as explaining: "We have taken into consideration the scientific advice about the long-term effects of the GM foods and all related grains and we are rejecting it."
The move by Zambia echoes those made recently by Zimbabwe and Mozambique, where officials have also rejected GM maize sent from the US.
It is sickening that politicians could make a decision that would let people starve based on advice of the anti-GM lobby0 -
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To echo a mod note of the Irish Economy, if you've got a gripe, get a blog. This forum is for measured discussion not pushing your personal agenda. Final warning.I was expressing my anger at the environment/green movement being responsible for turning away food aid which resulted in deaths. Not everyone might be aware of the ugly reality of being "green".
People need to know that their "green" ideology sometimes results in misery. And not just when it comes to GM foods .
Everyone please get back on topic on farming, organic or otherwise, in Ireland.0 -
The lack of presence of these companies in Ireland is a direct result of the Irish government's policy of no GMO crops.
As it stands, these companies' products can be bought in any gardening store, especially the (in)famous Round Up.
But what they're after isn't specifically the Irish market but the European market and Wikileaks gave a rare insight into their best ally: the US government:
http://www.euractiv.com/en/global-europe/us-lobbied-eu-back-gm-crops-wikileaks-news-500960
Emmm you know I am talking about commercial growers and farmers here, your first statement is like saying Aer Lingus IT dept buy their PCs in PC World. I think if you check the Bord Bia grower figures, the cost of licensing in Ireland and the cost of the product you will quickly work out its market economics and not some false boast from the Greens about GM crops.
Plant Protection Products
The main provisions of the legislation (S.I No. 320 of 1981 as amended, S.I. No. 83 of 2003 and S.I. No. 624 of 2001), are as follows: -
Before a plant protection product (PPP) can be placed on the market or used, it must conform to rigid controls specified in accordance with the legislation. That legislation is designed to ensure that no harmful effects arise for human and animal health and that there is no unacceptable impact on the environment.
An extensive dossier of information and data must be generated for each product to demonstrate compliance with the very high level of protection enshrined in the legislation.
Plant protection products, on the market prior to the introduction of the current regulatory system, are gradually being reviewed to ensure compliance with current standards.
Only PPPs which can be used safely are authorised for marketing and use. The conditions of authorisation are selected to minimise risks for consumers, workers and the environment. The use of a PPP in a manner other than specified on its approved label is illegal. The labelling provisions that must be complied with by farmers, growers and other users include: -- hazard symbols, risk warnings and safety recommendations
- personal protective equipment which must be worn during handling and application
- the maximum individual dose
- the maximum number of applications and the maximum total dose
- timing of applications and spray interval between applications
- pre-harvest interval following last application
- crops on which the PPP may be used
- harmful organisms for which the PPP may be used
- other relevant conditions
Source: http://www.pcs.agriculture.gov.ie/Default.htm
Fees in 2003 for registration of Pesticide in IrelandApplication and Annual Fees payable in accordance with the European Communities (Authorization, Placing on the Market, Use and Control of Plant Protection Products) Regulations 2003 (S.I. No 83 of 2003)
Annual Fees
Annual Fee – minimum €90.00
Annual Fee – reduced €150.00
Annual Fee – full * €275.00
Annual Fee - late * €400.00
Annual Fee - reduction threshold (professional use)1 €20,000.00
Annual Fee - reduction threshold (amateur use)1 €6,500.00
1 Reduced fees may apply to a plant protection product already on the market for a period of a year or more prior to the calendar year for which the annual fee is payable. The fee may be reduced on the basis of an auditor's certificate showing that wholesale sales of the plant protection product during the previous calendar year did not exceed the thresholds shown. In all cases, the minimum fee payable shall be €90.
Application Fees
Reduction threshold for existing product (specialised use)2 €6,500.00
Reduction threshold existing product (specialised use)2 €13,000.00
Reduction threshold existing product (specialised use)2 €26,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €13,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €26,000.00
Reduction threshold new product (specialised use)2 €52,000.00
Trivial Amendment Fee €275.00
Parallel Import Approval Fee - sale and use €275.00
Parallel Import Approval Fee - use only €100.00
Extension in Field of Use Fee €275.00
Notification Fee (adjuvants & macro-organisms) * €275.00
Fee for Certification of Inclusion on Register €275.00
Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €275.00
Renewal of Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €60.00
Variation of Authorization for Trials Purposes Fee €60.00
Trials Permit Fee €1,300.00
Trials Permit Renewal Fee €275.00
Variation of Trials Permit Fee €275.00
Fee for Modification of an Authorization - minor €750.00
Fee for Modification of an Authorization - major €2,000.00
Permission to Market Fee * €1,300.00
Authorization Fee - (mutual recognition of an Annex III A dossier) * €1,625.00
Authorization Fee - (mutual recognition of an Annex III B dossier) * €200.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex III A dossier) * €2,000.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex III B dossier) * €250.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex II A dossier) €5,700.00
Authorization Fee - (based on assessment of an Annex II B dossier) €250.00
2 Reduced fees may apply to a plant protection product that is placed on the market exclusively for a specialised use or specialised uses.
Existing products are defined as those already on the market for a period of three or more years prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable. The wholesale sales of such a product during each of the three calendar years immediately prior to the year in which the fee or fees are payable must not have exceeded the thresholds given. Any claims for a fee reduction must be supported by an auditor's certificate. (continued on next page)
2 (continued) New products are defined as those on the market for a period of less than three years prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable. Any claim for a fee reduction must be supported by a market survey showing that the potential annual wholesale sales of the plant protection product are unlikely to exceed the thresholds given. In cases where the plant protection product has been on the market for one or two years immediately prior to the calendar year in which the fee is payable, any application made for a fee reduction must be supported by an auditor's certificate relating to the wholesale sales of the plant protection product during each such year.
Where reduced fees are applicable, the percentage of the full fee payable shall be 10%, 25% or 50% in the case of the lower, middle and upper thresholds respectively for both existing and new products.
Fees for work on behalf of EFSA & the European Commission
Dossier receipt, registry and completeness check €2,000.00
Co-ordination of examination of dossier and editing of monograph €13,300.00
Examination of physical and chemical properties and analytical methods €13,300.00
Examination of residues profile €26,600.00
Examination of fate and behaviour in the environment €26,600.00
Examination of ecotoxicological profile €26,600.00
Examination of toxicological profile €33,300.00
Peer review and 15 MS evaluation process €63,300.00
Total Fee for Annex I inclusion of an active substance (single dossier) €205,000.00
Co-rapporteur Fee €35,000.00
* In the case of all fees followed by the symbol *, some €25 will be transferred to the Poisons Information Centre to cover the cost of maintaining the Poisons database
If you browse the PCS website you will see the limited range of products available to growers of minor crops.
Horticulture Figures 2007
http://www.bordbia.ie/industryinfo/hort/pages/productionofhorticulturalcrops.aspx0 -
Update of Sales figures from Europe largest Organic Market
ISNOrganic food sales in Germany, the largest European market for the sector, were "stagnant" in 2009, according to the latest industry data. Figures from Germany's organic food federation, the BÖLW, said there had been particular losses in food retailing and discount stores.
Estimated turnover in the sector amounted to around EUR5.85bn (US$8.52bn), which BÖLW said was "roughly the same" or even "slightly less" than last year.
"The reason is price declines and range reductions in discount stores," said Hans-Christoph Behr, director of agricultural information company AMI.
"This has led to a smaller range of goods in the affected stores. Targeted price reductions by the discount stores did not lead to the desired effect of a higher sales volumes."
Despite these losses, the organic sector outperformed the wider food market in Germany, the trade organisation said today (13 January).0 -
Corsendonk wrote: »Climate is essential too.
most imported food can be grown in an Irish climate.
There is little difference in the production costs. Most Irish farmers are just greedy and reckless. They cant be bothered with crop rotation, they much prefer to mass produce everything, spray it down with every possible chemical to control pests and maximise production. Meanwhile, this is all seeping into our groundwater. The problems associated with artificial fertilizers and pesticides are only beginning to show their effects now. Many effects may not become apparent for decades to come. In England, studies have shown that fish are changing sex in the Thames river. It is not clear whether this is directly associated with the use of the pill or the hormones added in fertilizer that seeps into the rivers.
In 2006 the European Commission stated: ‘Long-term exposure to pesticides can lead to serious disturbances to the immune system, sexual disorders, cancers, sterility, birth defects, damage to the nervous system and genetic damage.’
Here is another interesting link:
http://www.soilassociation.org/Whyorganic/Health/tabid/59/Default.aspx
any argument that says that there isn't a big enough market for organic food is nonsense. We currently import over 90% (I think it is closer to 96%) of our organic food.0 -
True, but the question is it sustainable? Energy costs, labour etcmost imported food can be grown in an Irish climate.
You haven't much of a clue on production costs, climate and how much retailers mark up before reaching the consumer?There is little difference in the production costs. Most Irish farmers are just greedy and reckless.They cant be bothered with crop rotation, they much prefer to mass produce everything, spray it down with every possible chemical to control pests and maximise production.
Chemicals cost money, a good farmer wishes to have as little inputs as possible, Farmers are businesses after all. True crop rotation calls for mixed farms. Consumers demand 356 days of the year supply so retailers encourage farmers to specialise in one or two crops.
.’In 2006 the European Commission stated: ‘Long-term exposure to pesticides can lead to serious disturbances to the immune system, sexual disorders, cancers, sterility, birth defects, damage to the nervous system and genetic damage
In what context was this? Where they talking about consumers or farmers who applied pesticides?any argument that says that there isn't a big enough market for organic food is nonsense. We currently import over 90% (I think it is closer to 96%) of our organic food.
Have you a breakdown of what organic products we import? Bananas? Avocados? French Organic Cheeses? Org new season potatoes? Biscuits?0 -
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The climate in Ireland is excellent for growing organic produce.0
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Organic in the US soon became another rule to dance around and moved into commercial production quite quickly. Here, red tape buckled the grassroots push that would have been required as the prerequisite. If you're running a homestead here in Ireland then the key is diversity in production.
I think it would make sense to get Irish farmer's behind regenerative beef and dairy systems. In theory it would have the least amount of labour, education and investment input requirements. Checks a lot of boxes for our EU green obligations, particularly reduction in fertilizer usages (-20% by 2030).
Any farmers able to comment on beef / dairy markets atm?0 -
I can't see why more organic produce can't be grown here. Unfortunately, I usually have to make a trade-off between either organic (usually from Spain or the Netherlands) or Irish-grown. I very rarely find locally grown organic fruit or veg in my local shop.
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Dividing the Question in two,
- Can we produce more organic food = certainly yes
- is it financially viable? = probably not since farmers rarely get a premium for their organic produce and they are normally price takers than price setters
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Have the organic people ever considered or quantified what atmospheric inputs fall on their crops? After my first big blizzard years back in NY state, I was struck by the residue that was on the cars when the snow thawed. Made me wonder what it had brought down with it.
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