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Poor driving on the M7 M9 upgrade

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24567

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    #32
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Drove it today at 60 km/h. Was quite easy driving on CC given everyone was overtaking.
    No problem doing that speed given the state of the road surface and the possibility of workers being around.


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    #33
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    Its a pity you have the inability to read and understand posts.

    Yes indeed I do have the ability to read.

    Unlike you doing your 90kph in a 60kph zone which you call "reasonable". Did you not read the signs? You saw them alright but you chose to ignore them.

    Sorry but there is nothing reasonable about the speeding you have already admitted to doing on here.

    You are very arrogant to be deciding how fast you shall drive when there are roadworkers working just a few metres away from your speeding car.

    Perhaps you might slow down so you can actually see them ??? Perhaps you might cop on and just leave your house 4 minutes earlier instead of putting peoples lives at risk by doing 90kph in a 60kph zone?

    Would it really hurt you to just slow down?


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    #34
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    What I don't get is why go over the limit here ; is it that ingrained into people that massive amounts of big red and white circles with the number 60 inside doesn't register

    Yes it used to be 120 but theres people working possibly at any hour of the day and theres no hard shoulder

    It takes 5 minutes extra to drive at 60 vs 120 on the limited stretch ( and no more, if all is flowing OK ).

    Flying past at 120 ( or usually worse ) causes massive issues as the reduced lane width makes it a very near miss , especially if someone in the inner lane is doing 45-50 and you want an overtake


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    #35
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Yes indeed I do have the ability to read.

    Unlike you doing your 90kph in a 60kph zone which you call "reasonable". Did you not read the signs? You saw them alright but you chose to ignore them.

    Sorry but there is nothing reasonable about the speeding you have already admitted to doing on here.

    You are very arrogant to be deciding how fast you shall drive when there are roadworkers working just a few metres away from your speeding car.

    Perhaps you might slow down so you can actually see them ??? Perhaps you might cop on and just leave your house 4 minutes earlier instead of putting peoples lives at risk by doing 90kph in a 60kph zone?

    Would it really hurt you to just slow down?

    You see your argument is all predicated on the assumption/ acceptance that 60 kmh is the correct limit because thats what the big signs say

    In my view having driven the section is its not and its too low.

    It should be 80 in my view and I stick cc to 80 and it works well


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    #36
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #37
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I dont "want to speed"

    I want to drive at a speed thats reasonable for the conditions

    60 kmh limit on that section of the motorway is too low in my view

    It should be 80 kmh and that in fact is what I set my cruise control to


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    #38
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #39
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    McCrack wrote: »
    I dont "want to speed"

    I want to drive at a speed thats reasonable for the conditions

    60 kmh limit on that section of the motorway is too low in my view

    It should be 80 kmh and that in fact is what I set my cruise control to

    You may not "want" to speed but you are speeding, what difference does this make? If you were facing a judge and told him you didnt "want" to speed but XYZ forced you to speed you would be laughed out of court. Only you are responsible for your own actions.

    Obviously some engineer with a degree of knowledge of road safety and risk assessment has said that it needs to be 60kph for the duration of the works and they have good reasons for doing so. It is his call to decide what is reasonable, not individual drivers who have no expertise in this area.


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    #40
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    No the law is right on theft

    Thow shall not steal

    Equating theft to the topic at hand demonstrates you really dont have any argument


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    #41
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    You may not "want" to speed but you are speeding, what difference does this make? If you were facing a judge and told him you didnt "want" to speed but XYZ forced you to speed you would be laughed out of court. Only you are responsible for your own actions.

    Obviously some engineer with a degree of knowledge of road safety and risk assessment has said that it needs to be 60kph for the duration of the works and they have good reasons for doing so. It is his call to decide what is reasonable, not individual drivers who have no expertise in this area.

    You would think there was some kind of expert risk assessment carried out

    In fact im sure there was

    Doesn't make the decision to limit speed to 60 kmh right

    I mean there are plenty of boreens around me with a 80 kmh posted limit and you can barely get two cars passed

    No I drive to the conditions, not what some sign tells me


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    #42
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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    #43
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,953 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    iwillhtfu wrote: »
    I've no issues with those doing 60 it's the ones that religiously do 10-20 under the posted speed limit that drive me nuts...
    Regardless of the posted speed limit, some vehicles are restricted to 65km/h. If the posted speed limit is 120km/h, they would be legally obliged to do 55km/h less than the posted limit so I don't understand your argument.

    You suggested that another poster shouldn't be on the road if they find that section challenging. The same could be said of you if you find motorists doing 10-20km/h challenging.


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    #44
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    You would think there was some kind of expert risk assessment carried out

    In fact im sure there was

    Doesn't make the decision to limit speed to 60 kmh right

    Your qualifications for carrying out your own independent risk assessment we can all take a look at ?

    Just because you don't think its right, its not just you on the road; its workers and other vehicles as well and neither is it a fixed set of roadworks - it will move several times during the course of the next two years and do so overnight without warning - thats part of the reason for 60 kph.


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    #45
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Well clearly I havent carried out my own "risk assessment" but ill tell you this - I tried sticking cruise control to 60 kmh and it was ridiculously slow for the conditions

    Therefore I will use my judgement and common sense and drive at a speed suitable to the conditions and thats 80 kmh in my view


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    #46
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Therefore I will use my judgement and common sense and drive at a speed suitable to the conditions and thats 80 kmh in my view

    If the next poster on this forum suggested that in their view 110 kph was appropriate, would you agree or be violently in disagreement ; what would be your grounds for your judgment being better than theirs ?


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    #47
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,953 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    McCrack wrote: »
    ..I will use my judgement and common sense and drive at a speed suitable to the conditions and thats 80 kmh in my view
    That doesn't really work with road traffic regulations though.

    Sure I'll drive to the pub tonight and have 5 or 6 pints and use my own judgement regarding driving home.


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    #48
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Do they still have the average speed cameras there from last year that nearly everybody seemed to ignore. Prehaps put them back, maybe every 500-1000 meters, and activate them.

    A few points and fines, and people will learn. Drove through motorway road works in the UK a couple of years ago, average speed cameras for miles, not one went over the signposted 50mph.


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    #49
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Serious question, the speed limit is 50mph (80km/h) or 60mph (100km/h) during UK roadworks.
    Our limit is 60km/h.

    If the limit is based on science, what's with the 20km/h difference? They're even talking about upping it to 55mph (90km/h) as they've found it may be the best compromise between driver and worker safety.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41704392


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    #50
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    That doesn't really work with road traffic regulations though.

    Sure I'll drive to the pub tonight and have 5 or 6 pints and use my own judgement regarding driving home.

    We are not discussing drink driving

    It does work with speed limits

    As I said twice before there are posted 80 kmh limits near me on what can be described as a country lanes, you would need somewhat a death wish to drive at 80 kmh along them, bad surfaces, twists and barely room for two cars to pass.

    Therefore I use judgement and common sense and drive to the conditions ie considerably slower than the limit

    The opposite is in fact the case on the M7

    The posted limit of 60 kmh is too slow for the conditions, 80 kmh is reasonable therefore I drive at that


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    #51
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    You havent answered my question.

    If the next poster on this forum suggested that in their view 110 kph was appropriate, would you agree or be violently in disagreement ; what would be your grounds for your judgment being better than theirs ?


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    #52
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Mint Sauce wrote: »
    Drove through motorway road works in the UK a couple of years ago, average speed cameras for miles, not one went over the signposted 50mph.

    And guess why?

    Because 50mph is a reasonable speed to do within roadworks that have very good safety barriers and therefore is respected.

    Btw, in case you don't know, 50mph is just over 80kmh

    Also the safety barriers installed are able to withstand an impact of 70mph / 112kmh


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    #53
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    It is very possible that in perfect daytime conditions on a dry surface, more than 60 Kph through the roadworks may (note MAY) be possible without significant risk.

    Now take a night with heavy traffic, wet roads, a bit of mist or fog, and a broken down vehicle in the nearside lane without lights as a result of the nature of the breakdown. I wonder how many vehicles will be involved in the multiple collision that will almost certainly occur as a direct result of tailgating, impatience, and exceeding the speed limit that has been put in place to try and ensure that an accident of this nature does not occur.

    While the roadworks are taking place, there is no hard shoulder to enable a vehicle with a failure of any nature to get out of the way of the traffic, and the speed limits have to be set with that eventuality in mind.

    If obeying the limit is inconvenient, then either find another route, or another job that means you can avoid the area for the next couple of years, it IS that simple. Clearing up the mess after a major accident is NOT a pleasant job, much better to put appropriate controls in place to try and prevent them happening in the first place. People choosing to ignore the limits that have been put in place for good reason just make it more likely that they will be spending a lot longer getting through that section as a result of their ignorance.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #54
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,953 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    CeilingFly wrote: »
    ... safety barriers installed are able to withstand an impact of 70mph / 112kmh
    A pointless statistic without knowing the weight of the impacting vehicle.

    1 tonne car v. a 40 tonne truck.


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    #55
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Irish Steve wrote: »
    It is very possible that in perfect daytime conditions on a dry surface, more than 60 Kph through the roadworks may (note MAY) be possible without significant risk.

    Now take a night with heavy traffic, wet roads, a bit of mist or fog, and a broken down vehicle in the nearside lane without lights as a result of the nature of the breakdown. I wonder how many vehicles will be involved in the multiple collision that will almost certainly occur as a direct result of tailgating, impatience, and exceeding the speed limit that has been put in place to try and ensure that an accident of this nature does not occur.

    While the roadworks are taking place, there is no hard shoulder to enable a vehicle with a failure of any nature to get out of the way of the traffic, and the speed limits have to be set with that eventuality in mind.

    If obeying the limit is inconvenient, then either find another route, or another job that means you can avoid the area for the next couple of years, it IS that simple. Clearing up the mess after a major accident is NOT a pleasant job, much better to put appropriate controls in place to try and prevent them happening in the first place. People choosing to ignore the limits that have been put in place for good reason just make it more likely that they will be spending a lot longer getting through that section as a result of their ignorance.

    How does any of that account for a 20km/h difference.

    Which of the differences require us to have a slower speed limit.
    Is it the drivers, the road, the roadwork safety equipment, the climate, or the emergency services.

    Something must be substantially different to account for a 33% difference in road work speeds.


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    #56
    HonalD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭HonalD


    liamog wrote: »
    Irish Steve wrote: »
    It is very possible that in perfect daytime conditions on a dry surface, more than 60 Kph through the roadworks may (note MAY) be possible without significant risk.

    Now take a night with heavy traffic, wet roads, a bit of mist or fog, and a broken down vehicle in the nearside lane without lights as a result of the nature of the breakdown. I wonder how many vehicles will be involved in the multiple collision that will almost certainly occur as a direct result of tailgating, impatience, and exceeding the speed limit that has been put in place to try and ensure that an accident of this nature does not occur.

    While the roadworks are taking place, there is no hard shoulder to enable a vehicle with a failure of any nature to get out of the way of the traffic, and the speed limits have to be set with that eventuality in mind.

    If obeying the limit is inconvenient, then either find another route, or another job that means you can avoid the area for the next couple of years, it IS that simple. Clearing up the mess after a major accident is NOT a pleasant job, much better to put appropriate controls in place to try and prevent them happening in the first place. People choosing to ignore the limits that have been put in place for good reason just make it more likely that they will be spending a lot longer getting through that section as a result of their ignorance.

    How does any of that account for a 20km/h difference.

    Which of the differences require us to have a slower speed limit.
    Is it the drivers, the road, the roadwork safety equipment, the climate, or the emergency services.

    Something must be substantially different to account for a 33% difference in road work speeds.
    There are a multitude of factors that are considered when looking at speed limits at roadworks. It is misleading to state that there are set speed limits in use in the UK.
    Narrow lanes and contraflow arrangements result in lower speed limits at roadworks,m for example.


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    #57
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The standard UK motorway roadwork limit is 50 mph (80km/h)
    The standard Irish motorway roadwork limit is 60km/h

    It is not misleading to state that there are set limit in use in the UK, anymore than it is misleading to say that the Irish standard motorway speed limit is 120km/h despite a couple of locations where the limit is 100km/h or even 80km/h.


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    #58
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Having driven on both UK and Irish Motorways on a regular basis for over 40 years, (and on European and other international high speed roads less often) one of the major factors in the difference in speed limits is the Irish attitude towards limits and rules, which results in a very much poorer attitude and compliance with them.

    The standard Irish response to almost any rules goes something like "feck ye and yer rules", so there's a strong probability (almost certainty) that a significant number of drivers (as already confirmed earlier in the thread) will see 60 and automatically decide that 80 is about right, in the UK, the levels of compliance with motorway speed limits, lane discipline and similar is much better, probably also influenced by tighter monitoring and enforcement.

    While the posted limits may be 20 K/ph different, I suspect the actual speeds and elapsed times for similar distances in the UK and Ireland will be very similar. That doesn't make either of them "right", and I am aware that the UK is intending to raise their limits as it seems that analysis of the limits has resulted in a finding that slightly higher is actually less dangerous. As for what will happen here, that will be down to the people in power and the RSA, and neither of those entities have been good performers over a long period of time.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #59
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We seem to have a habit of setting a rule, not enforcing it, noticing that compliance with the unenforced rule is low, so we tighten the rule.
    It's been seen with speed limits, drink driving rules, tax/insurance, bus lanes.

    The biggest problem I see is that enforcement of rules is so low.


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    #60
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,856 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Couple of things.

    1 Those barriers currently in use on the upgrade are temporary barriers designed to be moved around. I doubt they are full motorway spec.

    2. I drove in today from Maynooth to city centre on the M4, usual messing at high motorway speeds - yet as we got to Lucan everyone nailed it to the posted limit * by and large * , no comparison though to the M7 M9 upgrade . Why the difference


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    #61
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,076 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    trellheim wrote: »
    Couple of things.

    1 Those barriers currently in use on the upgrade are temporary barriers designed to be moved around. I doubt they are full motorway spec.

    2. I drove in today from Maynooth to city centre on the M4, usual messing at high motorway speeds - yet as we got to Lucan everyone nailed it to the posted limit * by and large * , no comparison though to the M7 M9 upgrade . Why the difference

    More urban area, not a motorway and heavily policed.


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