Doctor Who Christmas Special [Spoilers]

exaisle · 25-12-2017 7:33pm #1

Yup....typical woman....she pressed that button that says "DO NOT PRESS THIS"..... -)

OK episode though...I liked the Lethbridge-Stewart reference. David Bradley made an excellent Doctor and looked very much like William Hartnell...

ebbsy · 25-12-2017 7:44pm

Good episode until the regeneration..Capaldi will be remembered as one of the greats by me.

coffee_cake · 25-12-2017 7:56pm

that was great.

he really looked like hartnell and got the diction fairly right and all
not massively au fait with those ones - found the 'you need a jolly good smack bottom' while watching highlights on youtube. it really was a quote! lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgGFdxODsQU

Busi_Girl08 · 25-12-2017 8:04pm

As much as I loved Bradley I don't low why they rewrote One as a bigoted prick. He was a grumpy fecker most of the time but he was never against women or thought they were better serving men brandy. Stilted way of comparing then to now considering we are talking about a 2000 year old time traveling alien who just regenerated into a woman.

All in all it was a little underwhelming. I loved the Silent Night sequence, and the regeneration. But other than that...Meh.

Looking forward to seeing what Jolie Whittaker will bring to the console though!

Avatar MIA · 25-12-2017 8:15pm

Did this actor play the Doctor in a dramatisation of Doctor Who for a 50th BBC special.

Busi_Girl08 · 25-12-2017 8:22pm

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Did this actor play the Doctor in a dramatisation of Doctor Who for a 50th BBC special.

He did - An Adventure in Space and Time and he was incredible in that. He played William Hartnell and to a slightly lesser extent Hartnell playing the 1st Doctor, and he played it incredibly.

Incidentally

I was a little disappointed they didn't reconstruct the 1st regeneration scene. A bit of a fan service, but we have the Polly and Ben actors,
and we have Reece Shearsmith for Troughton, it would have been a good moment, or they could have at least made the scene look a bit less rushed

exaisle · 25-12-2017 8:29pm

Yeah...nice touch to have Mark Gatiss play Captain Lethbridge-Stewart....he wrote "An Adventure in Space and Time".....

All getting a bit incestuous perhaps...*LOL*

Mr E · 25-12-2017 9:55pm

Insert "women drivers" joke here.

The Master · 25-12-2017 9:57pm

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

As much as I loved Bradley I don't low why they rewrote One as a bigoted prick. He was a grumpy fecker most of the time but he was never against women or thought they were better serving men brandy. Stilted way of comparing then to now considering we are talking about a 2000 year old time traveling alien who just regenerated into a woman.

I might be savaged for this but here goes...

This old school bigoted behavior was rumored to be part of this episode months ago, apparently leaked by someone from the show.
The second part of the rumor was that this was to soften the blow for Jodie's introduction by showing the viewers how far the show has "progressed" since the 60s.
Appalling stuff to change the first doctor just to suit the new agenda

As above he was never actually like that, so why change him?

Not my favourite episode but enjoyable enough.
No doubt the glass people will be used again to bring back any character the new show runner wants

server down · 25-12-2017 10:42pm

What was the strange talk about not telling anybody but children the name. He has already told an adult. Then the wedding ring fell off....

martingriff · 26-12-2017 2:58am

They should have left the Clara bit in till the end rather then the Tardis making his mind up

Doctor DooM · 26-12-2017 12:12pm

I haven't seen too much of Hartnell but while the series was clearly a product of the 60s and the women were definitely in the panic-scream-get saved mode I didn't see the character engage in much sexism. Not sure I liked seeing that too much, if I understand Hartnell cared very much for how the character was perceived, and that leaves me with an uneasy feeling. They could have done a throwaway line where he was only talking like that because he'd not gone to future earth too much yet and thought talking like that kept humans comfortable and from feeling he's strange because they all do it. I did enjoy the "I know we have a professor/ student thing going on" joke from it though.

Overall I liked that the episode was a little different, no real bad guys, a recreation of a genuine poignant moment in history, and it's great seeing David Bradley back. As always no way to tell yet if the new Doc is good or bad, only one word of dialogue written probably by Moff on his way out the door

I wonder are we going to have a Tardisless season? Been a long time since the Doctor was stranded for a good while...

SparklersJo · 26-12-2017 1:33pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

...
I wonder are we going to have a Tardisless season? Been a long time since the Doctor was stranded for a good while...

Oh I hope not! The Tardis is a character in and of herself. One of the main characters! I’d miss her if she’s not in the whole next series.

Doctor DooM · 26-12-2017 2:33pm

SparklersJo wrote: »

Oh I hope not! The Tardis is a character in and of herself. One of the main characters! I’d miss her if she’s not in the whole next series.

Honestly I don't think it's likely, I'd say the thought of a non Tardis Doctor Who would strike icy cold fear into the hearts of the BBC's marketers.

Stark · 26-12-2017 2:40pm

Also they released promotional pics of a newly redesigned Tardis alongside Jodie Whittaker's new costume a while back. Guessing the exploding Tardis at the end is another excuse for a Matt Smith style rebuild.

Edit: link : http://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2017-11-09/doctor-who-jodie-whittaker-tardis/

jasonb · 26-12-2017 2:55pm

I enjoyed it, I also liked there being no bad guys and no real threat, just a plot around the characters.

I thought Mark Gatiss was quite good in it, and I like how they saved him just by doing something really subtle, not a big change, which showed the 1st Doctor that he can make a difference.

I enjoyed some of Moffat’s trademarks, while still being a bit too aware of them and wishing I hadn’t spotted them. Clara coming back was the perfect example, it was great to see her, and great to see the 12th Doctor’s joy at remembering her again. But it was also typical of Moffat to give everyone a happy ending, and bring her back, just like Amy came back for the 11th Doctor.

I haven’t seen enough of the original episodes to know how over the top the 1st Doctor’s attitudes were, or how much they exaggerate them. They were funny, and made their point, but if it was done at the expense of the 1st Doctor’s legacy then that’s a bit disrespectful I think. I thought Bradley was excellent, just like he was in the ‘Documentary’.

I did think the scenes with the 12th Doctor and Bill and Nardole were nice, but they dragged out the regeneration itself a bit too much, and gave him too much of a speech, even though he delivered it well. Was he basically leaving advice for the 13th Doctor? If so, he could have mentioned that, once again, regenerating while the Tardis is in flight is a bad idea, even I know that. At least land the bloody thing first!

All in all, it was good, a nice change from the world at threat, and a lovely realistic tie-in to Christmas. Not much to say about the 13th Doctor yet, other than I like her accent (and have thought she’s cute for a few years now, so that’s a new dimension for me with the show!).

Do we have any idea when the next season is?

Stark · 26-12-2017 4:20pm

jasonb wrote: »

Do we have any idea when the next season is?

Autumn 2018 by the sounds of it

FunLover18 · 26-12-2017 4:44pm

That was possibly the worst Christmas Special I've ever seen. I'm all for a plot that doesn't have a villain with an evil plan (I enjoyed Capaldi's reaction) but you need to have something to drive the episode forward and this didn't have that. I was bored throughout because I just didn't care about what was happening, because there wasn't anything happening to care about.

I've never seen any of the Hartnell stuff and after that I have no interest; I don't know if it was how he was acted or the writing but it was terrible - were Bradley's hands glued to the lapels of his coat? As a multi-Doctor story it didn't even work as No 1 was essentially playing the role of a companion.

Capaldi deserved to go out on a stronger note.

CastorTroy · 26-12-2017 8:37pm

I enjoyed it. Nice way to bring his old companions back.
As has been said, why travel when regenerating?

And i like the story of the Christmas truce

pixelburp · 26-12-2017 9:05pm

Watched under the lens that nearly ALL the Xmas specials are tosh, and nearly ALL regeneration stories in Who are equal tosh, this turned out much better than it could have been (never forget End of Time). Capaldi gave a great final performance and the story itself was a bittersweet subversion of the 'evil plan'.

The goodbyes were extended but didn't overstay their welcome, and the little nods like Lethbridge Stewart were a nice touch. That said the reconning of Doctor #1 into a sexist grandad stereotype was borderline shameful to the series as a whole IMO. It's hard not to speculate this was Moffat 's heavy handed attempt to wink towards Whittakers position as the new Doc - look how far the doctor has come, even if Moffat has admitted he didn't want a female doc iirc - but to do so at the expense of an incarnation was a terrible move. Bradley still did stellar work all the same and it's be nice to somehow contrive a return, albeit one that didn't involve him telling number 13 to serve the brandy.

SimonTemplar · 27-12-2017 1:04am

Capaldi was great and I will miss him. TBH, it is very difficult for me to rank Tennent, Smith and Capaldi because they all brought a lot to the role.

Overall, I loved Capaldi's first season, I thought his second season suffered from a lot of very poor writing and his final season was above average. I thought Bill made a great companion for him, and in fact Clara was vastly improved as a companion for Capaldi as opposed to Smith. Amy was always Smith's true companion.

The Christmas special was OK, although season 10's finale felt like the real ending of Capaldi's doctor and the special just felt like a coda. If you ignore the commercial reasons for needed a Christmas special, I would have preferred the regeneration to happen in that finale. Really didn't like One behaving like a sexist oaf. It is indicative of a lot of Moffat's writing which doesn't stand up to much criticism.

Looking forward to the new era with Whittaker and Chibnall.

Angron · 27-12-2017 1:32am

When Bradley was just being a grumpy sod, I thought he was great. It's just a shame that Moffat couldn't resist screwing with an old character for no real reason. I'm glad Moffat is gone, good riddance.

SirLemonhead · 27-12-2017 2:29am

Not even Doctor Who is safe from the Hollywood 'Teal and Orange' colour grading epidemic

Snow is meant to be white, lads...

flazio · 27-12-2017 9:03am

Angron wrote: »

When Bradley was just being a grumpy sod, I thought he was great. It's just a shame that Moffat couldn't resist screwing with an old character for no real reason. I'm glad Moffat is gone, good riddance.

I kind of hope that history is kinder to the Moffat era because overall it really was a good era for the show. OK Capaldi's first season in my mind damaged the character somewhat but he got there in the end.
I have to agree somewhat that the First Doctor was never so sexist as he was portrayed here. He never had his companions dusting the TARDIS and the only person he ever threatened with a smacked bottom was his granddaughter, which indeed would have been acceptable back then, but never threatened to raise a hand against a stranger unless threatened himself.

Doctor DooM · 27-12-2017 10:42am

flazio wrote: »

I kind of hope that history is kinder to the Moffat era because overall it really was a good era for the show. OK Capaldi's first season in my mind damaged the character somewhat but he got there in the end.

People are being very selective about how they think about Moffat.

There are episodes of RTD era Who that put friends of mine off for life. The Doctor became a parody of himself,and the series often crossed the line from child friendly to childish. Plastic Mickey. Farting alien invasions. Dobby Doctor. No one will ever be able to convince me they look at both eras objectively and think this one is worse.

I would say though, I think the highs of the RTD era were better than Moffat's, but considering they were usually written by Moffat, I don't know if that's a great argument

I do think history will gradually get kinder to the Moff's era. It gave us River Song's story, a lesbian victorian silurian, Bill Potts, Nardole, Missy, closed off the time war, re established Gallifrey as a going concern (another thing that annoyed me about RTD's era was "yeah I'm so sad the Time Lords are all dead I killed them... well when I say killed, they're all frozen away... well when I say frozen away, they're actually able to manipulate reality through the Master". The Time Lords being dead or at least the Doctor really believing they were was the key driving point to RTDs version and he couldn't stick to it!).

On the downside, some of his characters did appear very stock, as did a lot of his plots, and he did rely very much on forgetting inconvenient storylines and timeywimey to solve things (that was fun when it was used once or twice only). Amy tried to cheat on Rory on their wedding night for example... she never seemed to show even a seconds remorse for that.

So yeah overall I think Moffat, and both 11 and 12 will be fondly remembered (and I really hope some day we'll get a conversation between 10 and 12. That could be... fantastic

)

FunLover18 · 27-12-2017 11:35am

Doctor DooM wrote: »

flazio wrote: »

I kind of hope that history is kinder to the Moffat era because overall it really was a good era for the show. OK Capaldi's first season in my mind damaged the character somewhat but he got there in the end.

People are being very selective about how they think about Moffat.

There are episodes of RTD era Who that put friends of mine off for life. The Doctor became a parody of himself,and the series often crossed the line from child friendly to childish. Plastic Mickey. Farting alien invasions. Dobby Doctor. No one will ever be able to convince me they look at both eras objectively and think this one is worse.

I would say though, I think the highs of the RTD era were better than Moffat's, but considering they were usually written by Moffat, I don't know if that's a great argument

I do think history will gradually get kinder to the Moff's era. It gave us River Song's story, a lesbian victorian silurian, Bill Potts, Nardole, Missy, closed off the time war, re established Gallifrey as a going concern (another thing that annoyed me about RTD's era was "yeah I'm so sad the Time Lords are all dead I killed them... well when I say killed, they're all frozen away... well when I say frozen away, they're actually able to manipulate reality through the Master". The Time Lords being dead or at least the Doctor really believing they were was the key driving point to RTDs version and he couldn't stick to it!).

On the downside, some of his characters did appear very stock, as did a lot of his plots, and he did rely very much on forgetting inconvenient storylines and timeywimey to solve things (that was fun when it was used once or twice only). Amy tried to cheat on Rory on their wedding night for example... she never seemed to show even a seconds remorse for that.

So yeah overall I think Moffat, and both 11 and 12 will be fondly remembered (and I really hope some day we'll get a conversation between 10 and 12. That could be... fantastic )

I think the difference for me is that RTD definitely had a few clunker episodes but you can skip over them whereas Moffat had story arcs that were so complicated they we're silly, it can be harder to ignore. I for one hate River and the idea that she's The Doctor's wife, the whole name of The Doctor/Trenzelor arc was tied into the Clara/impossible girl story the resolution of which just didn't land for me. Don't get me wrong, season 5 was my jumping on point and I think it's by far the best series as a whole but after that he got too tied up in mysteries and the history of The Doctor.

I wrote earlier that this was the worst Christmas special, it's not objectively bad, the writing is fine, the acting is fine but it's the definition of a 'meh' episode and i think in a few years it will be remembered for how absolutely forgettable and perfunctory it was.

pixelburp · 27-12-2017 1:24pm

I think Moffat is a good example of that line from The Dark Knight; you either die a hero, or live long enough to be the villain. It was interesting to cast ones mind back to the announcement of Moffat as the replacement to RTD & how it met universal praise and excitement. Arguably RTD left later than he should have, his last output being pretty low standard, knocking out a sequence of farcically escalating threats and were a bit of a 'Greatest Hits' of all his strengths and weaknesses. It's not without reason that Season 5 felt like a bit of a soft reboot, culminating in 'The Big Bang' that kind reset the whole universe.

Moffat's scripts were generally considered the high watermarks of the RTD era, the prospect of him being in charge extremely enticing. And personally I think his tenure has been a success overall, introducing many new & interesting ideas, characters or stories. Like most writers though, Moffat has his quirks and eccentricities but I dare anyone to find any that doesn't, and while some of those idiosyncrasies got a little grating (eg his propensity to draft plots as puzzle boxes) or are held against him as some form of universal truth / constant (eg, that he can't 'write' women), on balance I suspect his contribution will be looked on more favourably than RTDs (once you strip out the caveat that the latter brought back the show in the first instance). I also suspect with Moffat & RTD, there's the extra factor of having to write for a family show with a lot of management / marketing scrutiny.

It's an interesting changeover, because unlike his predecessors, Chibnall doesn't come with any excessively positive baggage or preconceptions. The success of Broadchurch notwithstanding (which I haven't seen), his contributions to Who have been ... fine, really. Never terrible but never that level of consistently great that Moffats stories were before taking the top job. Expectations are arguably pretty low, albeit offset by fact that all eyes are on Jodie Whittaker as the first female Doctor. Whether you believe her casting is a breath a fresh air or a harbinger of doom, either way there's going to be a LOT of focus on Chibnall's first few stories - I'd go so far as to say as much as there has been since the show returned in 2005.

Doctor DooM · 27-12-2017 2:28pm

Regardless of how you feel about the Moffat era, it is a shame that someone who does the likes of this all the time is moving on.

Tennant and especially Smith clearly loved kids, and certainly went above and beyond, but this guy really makes the Doctor real.

https://twitter.com/BrianMcGilloway/status/945951773046595584

SimonTemplar · 27-12-2017 7:59pm

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Regardless of how you feel about the Moffat era, it is a shame that someone who does the likes of this all the time is moving on.

Tennant and especially Smith clearly loved kids, and certainly went above and beyond, but this guy really makes the Doctor real.

https://twitter.com/BrianMcGilloway/status/945951773046595584

I saw that in work and it almost brought a tear to my eye. What an fantastic guy he is. That child will cherish that letter for the rest of his life.

ebbsy · 27-12-2017 8:26pm

A good actor will always be able to turn average scripts into something good. Baker, Tennant and Capaldi had that ability and that is why they are my favourite 3.

ixoy · 30-12-2017 10:20pm

Really enjoyed it but I'll agree they went OTT on the sexist comments. If anything, it was always Pertwee who struck me as most likely to make those comments...

Doctor Who Christmas Special [**Spoilers**]

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Doctor Who Christmas Special [Spoilers]