Taxi Company 20% Off

Spook_ie · 15-02-2009 8:06pm

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Maybe the drivers need to move towards a co-operative structure? I'm old enough to remember when Co-op Taxis (phone 777777) were the biggest taxi firm in the city, owned and managed by drivers.

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

Taxipete29 · 15-02-2009 8:15pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

They are affiliated with National Radio Cabs

antoinolachtnai · 15-02-2009 11:27pm

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

Taxipete29 · 16-02-2009 12:25am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

The fundamental problem is we have too many taxis period. There is no time day or night when there is an undersupply of taxis so I dont see how trying to manage what times they are working would do anything added to that taxi drivers are self-employed and as such choose their own working hours.

the boss of me · 16-02-2009 12:35am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The fundamental problem with the taxi industry, surely, is that there are too many taxis on the road at particular times of the day, no? No amount of messing with the prices is going to sort out that problem.

What really needs to happen is that supply has to be managed on a day-to-day basis. Capping the number of cabs will not do that.

If the industry is not prepared to manage the supply (so far it hasn't) then the regulator should do it.

TR won't do that.. she will just repeat her mantra "it's not within my remit". This is the line she uses to the media to the unions and to the Oireachtas.
She is the ministers whipping boy, just once I would like to hear her say " it is not within my remit to limit the number of taxis. However I believe it is the right course of action and I have recommended that the minister place a moratorium on the issuing of taxi plates immediately."
This would put the ball back in Dopey Dempseys' court, but will Kathleen Doyle rock the boat ? No way.. this incopetent regulater gets €130,000 pa.
In the private sector she would be out on her ear. So she will continue to do what Dempsey wants and he is the worst sort of politician ie. vain, stupid and stubborn.

antoinolachtnai · 16-02-2009 8:46am

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The fundamental problem is we have too many taxis period. There is no time day or night when there is an undersupply of taxis so I dont see how trying to manage what times they are working would do anything added to that taxi drivers are self-employed and as such choose their own working hours.

Have you any statistics to back that up? I know that there are times when there is an undersupply of taxis. For example, on a weekday morning at the rank in Ranelagh, it is certainly not unknown for there to be a ten or twenty-minute wait.

If drivers could book hours ahead and know that there would only be a proportionate number of taxis on the road at that time, surely it would make sense?

Taxipete29 · 16-02-2009 10:16pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Have you any statistics to back that up? I know that there are times when there is an undersupply of taxis. For example, on a weekday morning at the rank in Ranelagh, it is certainly not unknown for there to be a ten or twenty-minute wait.

If drivers could book hours ahead and know that there would only be a proportionate number of taxis on the road at that time, surely it would make sense?

I dont need stats to back up what I can see everyday when I go to work and you cant say there is an undersupply based on experience at one very small rank. Walk around the corner and I guarantee you will get one quicker.

Do you realise there is roughly 15, 000 taxis in Dublin, it would be logistical nightmare to even contemplate trying this, to say nothing of the fact its totally unnecessary.

antoinolachtnai · 16-02-2009 10:40pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

I dont need stats to back up what I can see everyday when I go to work and you cant say there is an undersupply based on experience at one very small rank. Walk around the corner and I guarantee you will get one quicker.

Do you realise there is roughly 15, 000 taxis in Dublin, it would be logistical nightmare to even contemplate trying this, to say nothing of the fact its totally unnecessary.

The rank is beside the corner. If there was oversupply and there were drivers going by they would have come around and picked up.

You said there was always oversupply. I gave an example of a time when there wasn't oversupply.

There was also a queue at the taxi rank on St Stephen's Green on at least one occasion over Christmas.

Putting a cap on taxi numbers at this stage isn't going to make any difference to the fact that there is oversupply, if there is indeed oversupply.

Many other cities have systems where the number of taxis on the road is adjusted to meet the demand. Singapore comes to mind, I'm sure there are others. It's logistically challenging, but it's not impossible.

baloonatic · 16-02-2009 10:45pm

In my view, under no circumstances should taxis be allowed to advertise cheaper fares on their vehicles. It would inevitable result in bedlam, undercutting and a general reduction in the service level. It would make it easier for unlicensed operators to take customers from legitimate operators by offering dramatically reduced fares. Operators will be forced to work longer hours, customers will encounter aggressive selling, and it would generate an extremely negative atmosphere.

As regards the 20% off promo, it's nothing more than a well marketed sales pitch. There could be a case for false advertising there, but I don't know. In a market which is nearing saturation the company is only trying to make the best of an undesirable situation.

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SerialComplaint · 16-02-2009 10:48pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

They're still around on 6 777 777, but I don't honestly know if they are or aren't affiliated with any of the other cab companies

Taxipete29 wrote: »

They are affiliated with National Radio Cabs

But it is no longer a co-op. If drivers want to retain control over the profits arising from taking calls, they need to form a co-op.

Taxipete29 · 16-02-2009 11:09pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The rank is beside the corner. If there was oversupply and there were drivers going by they would have come around and picked up.

You said there was always oversupply. I gave an example of a time when there wasn't oversupply.

There was also a queue at the taxi rank on St Stephen's Green on at least one occasion over Christmas.

Putting a cap on taxi numbers at this stage isn't going to make any difference to the fact that there is oversupply, if there is indeed oversupply.

Many other cities have systems where the number of taxis on the road is adjusted to meet the demand. Singapore comes to mind, I'm sure there are others. It's logistically challenging, but it's not impossible.

Just to correct you, you gave an example of a specific place in Dublin, this does not mean an undersupply as I could show you ranks all over Dublin that are full every morning of the week.

In the lead up to Christmas alot of drivers work extra hours as its usually busy and then they take some time off during Christmas to spend time with their families. This may lead to minor queues at certain peak times such as closing time, but if you throw everyone out of every pub and club in the city at the same time what do you expect.

Other cities may have different systems that work for them due to the way the industry is set up but trust me as someone who knows the industry and knows what he is talking about, its unworkable in Dublin.

Even people who feel that there should be no cap put on the licences realise there is an over supply and for you to argue otherwise is ridiculous when you have 15000 taxis servicing a population of around 1.2million.

antoinolachtnai · 16-02-2009 11:31pm

You are saying there is always oversupply and I am giving you instances where there is undersupply.

I am not saying that there is not oversupply generally. I am just saying that from the consumer's perspective there is sometimes undersupply.

The actual problem is that the supply isn't managed.

To deal with this problem, we should have a bit of bottle and restructure the industry if that's what needs to be done.

Capping the number of taxis at this stage of the game isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. If the existing taxi plates were cosied and traded the way taxis were cosied and traded in the old days, supply could keep on growing for quite a bit, even if there wasn't a single extra plate. The capacity could probably grow another thirty percent without any sweat .

(The only difference would be that the money would have to be spread amongst more people and we'd be back to that business with the mortgages and the widows and the investors and all the rest of it.)

2qk4u · 16-02-2009 11:43pm

The problem with the supply and demand is that the driver might spend 8/9 hours of a 12 hour shift doing feic all and everyone seems to want a taxi at the same time. If there was regular demand there would be a regular service.

L1011 · 16-02-2009 11:50pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

I'll repeat the question as it appears that no one noticed it, or is it just that no one has used them?

The lispy one in the advertisements is enough to put me off using them for life.

Taxipete29 · 17-02-2009 12:09am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are saying there is always oversupply and I am giving you instances where there is undersupply.

I am not saying that there is not oversupply generally. I am just saying that from the consumer's perspective there is sometimes undersupply.

The actual problem is that the supply isn't managed.
There is not one person who knows anything about the Taxi industry here that thinks this is the problem. I am sorry your just plain wrong
To deal with this problem, we should have a bit of bottle and restructure the industry if that's what needs to be done.
I do believe the industry needs to be restructured but not for the reason you have cited

Capping the number of taxis at this stage of the game isn't going to make any difference whatsoever. If the existing taxi plates were cosied and traded the way taxis were cosied and traded in the old days, supply could keep on growing for quite a bit, even if there wasn't a single extra plate. The capacity could probably grow another thirty percent without any sweat .

(The only difference would be that the money would have to be spread amongst more people and we'd be back to that business with the mortgages and the widows and the investors and all the rest of it.)

Capping plates on its own may not work, but it will give the industry a little bit of breathing room to settle down and I really dispute your figure of 30%??? Did you just make that up??????

Spook_ie · 17-02-2009 2:27am

I think what a lot of people need to realise on here, considering there is another protest scheduled for Tues 17th 11.00, is we are calling for a halt on plates until a full ranging review of what the taxi trade needs, what the public needs and what the cities need is carried out, wether that is for a complete rebuild of the system from the ground up is for another days discussion.

Dempsey says that he favours qualitive controls rather than number contols, would have been a passable solution until the regulator decided that if you pass your psv test and buy a plate from an existing holder you are not classed as a new license holder and as such you needn't bother about the qualitive controls until 2012, as they are only going to apply to new plates over 45000 issued from Jan 1st....

It's this kind of crap that as a businessman, yes I do run a business, we need to be rid of.........

mikemac · 17-02-2009 6:29am

Spook_ie wrote: »

is we are calling for a halt on plates until a full ranging review of what the taxi trade needs,

But where is the cut-off? You're saying I can buy a plate this week and then join you on a protest calling for a cap?

Hardly seems right.
And I'm sure there were drivers who only started in the last few months on some of the protests so far.
Taking advantage of the cheap (cheaper after deregulation) plates but then demanding they stop issueing them.
Can you have it both ways?

Spook_ie · 17-02-2009 9:09am

mikemac wrote: »

But where is the cut-off? You're saying I can buy a plate this week and then join you on a protest calling for a cap?

Hardly seems right.
And I'm sure there were drivers who only started in the last few months on some of the protests so far.
Taking advantage of the cheap (cheaper after deregulation) plates but then demanding they stop issueing them.
Can you have it both ways?

There will always be a cut off date that would suit some people more than others, just the way of life, but if people want a 1st class service then you have to start somewhere. It's not unlike the oft repeated requests for an end to double jobbing in the industry, where people work in a 9-5 ( or whatever ) PAYE job and then throw the roof sign on to work some weekends to pay for their holidays or whatever, I would see no difference to them losing their investment if they were outlawed as the original plate holders losing thier investment when plates were deregegulated, you ain't going to please all the people....

antoinolachtnai · 17-02-2009 9:24am

taxipete:

30 percent is based on taxi plates currently being used an average of 45 hours a week. This is open to debate, but I think if you take the part-time plates into account, the average is going to be something between 30 and 60 hours per week.

In 2003, It was considered by the taxi drivers' organizaitons that there were about 3000 part-timers in the industry, when there were 20,000 plates. (http://www.gov.ie/committees-29/c-publicenterprise/20030612-J/Page1.htm). There are conservatively 4500 at this stage. Even if only these were to be fully utilized (say at triple what they are now) it would result in the equivalent of thousands of extra taxis.

For each taxi to get an additional 15 hours per week seems easy. There are many ways this could happen. A taxi driver could have a cosy for two or three days a week. Part-time drivers could sell their plates to people who have been made redundant from work, effectively turning part-time plates into full-time.

Re managing supply, you are just gainsaying me.

Spook_ie:

So what does the taxi industry need? Why do we have to stop everything in order to find that out? Do we need consultants? Ten year licensing? Larger players? Higher fares? Lower fares? Newer cars?

lods · 17-02-2009 9:30am

It should be the same as any industry, supply & demand. It'll find its own level. Sickens me when i here taxi drivers saying on the news , that their going to bring the city to a standstill. They shouldn't be above the law.

Spook_ie · 17-02-2009 4:59pm

lods wrote: »

It should be the same as any industry, supply & demand. It'll find its own level. Sickens me when i here taxi drivers saying on the news , that their going to bring the city to a standstill. They shouldn't be above the law.

Ah thats so nice, you'd like taxidrivers to be denied their democratic right to demonstrate, I suppose you objected in the same manner when the OAPs, Students etc. marched......perhaps if you don't believe in democracy you would be better off emigrating to somewhere like Zimbabwe/Iran/China/North Korea or whichever country you feel would better serve your ideals....

maggy_thatcher · 17-02-2009 6:04pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

Ah thats so nice, you'd like taxidrivers to be denied their democratic right to demonstrate, I suppose you objected in the same manner when the OAPs, Students etc. marched......perhaps if you don't believe in democracy you would be better off emigrating to somewhere like Zimbabwe/Iran/China/North Korea or whichever country you feel would better serve your ideals....

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Taxipete29 · 17-02-2009 7:00pm

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

taxipete:

30 percent is based on taxi plates currently being used an average of 45 hours a week. This is open to debate, but I think if you take the part-time plates into account, the average is going to be something between 30 and 60 hours per week.

In 2003, It was considered by the taxi drivers' organizaitons that there were about 3000 part-timers in the industry, when there were 20,000 plates. (http://www.gov.ie/committees-29/c-publicenterprise/20030612-J/Page1.htm). There are conservatively 4500 at this stage. Even if only these were to be fully utilized (say at triple what they are now) it would result in the equivalent of thousands of extra taxis.

For each taxi to get an additional 15 hours per week seems easy. There are many ways this could happen. A taxi driver could have a cosy for two or three days a week. Part-time drivers could sell their plates to people who have been made redundant from work, effectively turning part-time plates into full-time.

Re managing supply, you are just gainsaying me.

For starters cosying only happens for the most part with immigrant drivers and alot of the time is done illegally. Better enforcement would solve this problem.

Most part-time drivers use their family car as a taxi so how can they let someone use it to cosy in if they need to get to their own job????

Seen as how you seem to think you know what your talking about, lay out for me what you would do to sort out the industry

Taxipete29 · 17-02-2009 7:02pm

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Did I miss this gridlock that has happened over the past few protests?????
From what I can see there was little interference with people getting to work as the protests were deliberatly scheduled for 11 so not to interfer with people getting to work. You should check your facts before you post.

maggy_thatcher · 17-02-2009 7:12pm

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Did I miss this gridlock that has happened over the past few protests?????
From what I can see there was little interference with people getting to work as the protests were deliberatly scheduled for 11 so not to interfer with people getting to work. You should check your facts before you post.

I mean next Wednesday's protest. As in the one mentioned at http://www.dublins98.ie/news/cabbies_announce_plans_for_massive_demo.php

paulm17781 · 17-02-2009 8:06pm

Dublin98.ie wrote:

Spokesperson for the taxis for change group, Frank Byrne, told 98 news, they've no other option.

Curse the people who forced them into this job and now won't let them leave. :rolleyes:

lods · 17-02-2009 8:11pm

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

There's a difference between demonstrating and threatening to "shut down the city". Demonstrating is normally an organized march from place A to place B under a Garda escort. I've no problems with you doing that (I don't agree with your reasons for demonstrating, but I believe in the right for you to do it). Taking your cars and gridlocking the city on the other hand does nothing other than annoy everybody who have nothing to do with your "struggle".

Agree completely.I'm someone who works in the city centre and depends on shoppers for my my livelyhood. Wheres my democratic right to make a living. Can i got and park my car accroos a taxi rank & block it, as my protest against my employer? I would defend anyones right to a democratic Protest, but not acting like spolit children. So we can one have X amount of supermarkets , X amout of clothes shops. What world are taxi drivers living in, they always want to dictate the terms. How many of those protesting only got a licence because of the deregulation? Have a democratic march by all means. Block the roads & be arrested the same as any of us would be.

Spook_ie · 17-02-2009 9:30pm

lods wrote: »

Agree completely.I'm someone who works in the city centre and depends on shoppers for my my livelyhood. Wheres my democratic right to make a living. Can i got and park my car accroos a taxi rank & block it, as my protest against my employer? I would defend anyones right to a democratic Protest, but not acting like spolit children. So we can one have X amount of supermarkets , X amout of clothes shops. What world are taxi drivers living in, they always want to dictate the terms. How many of those protesting only got a licence because of the deregulation? Have a democratic march by all means. Block the roads & be arrested the same as any of us would be.

Yes, you can only have X amount of supermarkets, fast food joints, restaurants ( and probably clothes shops ) it's called planning applications, thats why Lidl aren't being allowed to open up in the old Habitat shop, as it's detrimental to the planning for the area, but I have no doubt that a few of the supermarkets would have lodged their objections as well... As to blocking the roads, I don't believe there is any intention of parking cars across road junctions or shop doorways, just a noisy drive around...for all I know it may well be we'll stay in town to support the Garda march later on in the day

Spook_ie · 17-02-2009 9:35pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

Curse the people who forced them into this job and now won't let them leave. :rolleyes:

Actualy you would be surprised at how difficult it is to leave the industry, if you've been in it for more than a year, you're not entitled to the dole or anything other than a means tested allowance ( And you have to find a buyer for your plate/taxi as you would still be deemed to have a source of income), no access to FAS retraining ( unless you pay for yourself ) and various other niceties that you can get when you leave most other industries...

paulm17781 · 17-02-2009 9:36pm

Spook_ie wrote: »

just a noisy drive around...

How will this garner public support?

Is that even the reason this is being done or is it to show that taxidrivers can cause problems on the streets?

Taxi Company 20% Off

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