Golfgate: Multiple public figures breach COVID-19 restrictions

awec · 21-08-2020 9:26am #1

Another one bites the dust, Calleary gone.

Sam Russell · 21-08-2020 10:26am

And Buttimer.

seamus · 21-08-2020 10:53am

More fool me, but I am genuinely stunned that these people are so out of touch that they thought attending a large gathering was a good idea.

Even if the venue had managed to find a loophole that would technically allow the event to take place within the restrictions, any politician with an ounce of cop-on would have realised how bad it would look to go to a large dinner immediately after their own government had announced serious restrictions on gatherings.

I'm just shaking my head. I can't decide if it's arrogance or immense stupidity that led Calleary and Buttimer (and Jaysus knows who else) to this.

L1011 · 21-08-2020 10:55am

Only one other current Oireachtas member, Grealish, who is not in Government but would vote with them nearly all the time.

Phil Hogan is the most embarrassing of the rest.

seamus · 21-08-2020 11:07am

L1011 wrote: »

Only one other current Oireachtas member, Grealish, who is not in Government but would vote with them nearly all the time.

Phil Hogan is the most embarrassing of the rest.

Dunno, just saw a shot of the guest list, and there are a lot of names in there who should have known better. Brian Hayes might not technically be a politician any more, but he's the head of the BPI, which is effectively a political lobby group.

This one is going to run and run; who thought that it would be a good idea for the official Oireachtas Golf Society to have a dinner during these restrictions? Whatever if this was some local or business golf society, but this was the official Dail society, probably with a state-paid civil servant doing all the secretarial work for it. There were so many people here who should have called a halt to this and didn't.

I'd say Micháel is properly on the warpath today. He now has to come out and explain why this went ahead without it sounding like his government are asleep at the wheel.

Sam Russell · 21-08-2020 12:18pm

Seamus Woulfe supreme court judge was in attendance.

Was there not a prevous scandal about a recently appointed supreme court judge bringing down a government?

Incidentally, Dick Spring was there at that dinner. Ironic or what?

I see Woulfe has appologised for attending the dinner. I wonder if that is enough.

Podge_irl · 21-08-2020 12:23pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Seamus Woulfe supreme court judge was in attendance.

Was there not a prevous scandal about a recently appointed supreme court judge bringing down a government?

Incidentally, Dick Spring was there at that dinner. Ironic or what?

I see Woulfe has appologised for attending the dinner. I wonder if that is enough.

You would suspect the presence of actual members of government would relegate a SC justice being there in importance. I imagine it specifically won't be much additional trouble.

Spectacular stupidity all round though.

mariaalice · 21-08-2020 1:50pm

Thre is another aspect of the event attended by 'well off aul lad' as one the COVID experts called them this morning.

How many women were at the event anyone knows?

The mix of ex media, judges, politicians which smacks of an elite, sidebar deals that never come to light, glad handling, movers and shakers.

In complete contrast to an open and transparent government.

The lack of understanding that times have moved on.

Itssoeasy · 21-08-2020 4:25pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Seamus Woulfe supreme court judge was in attendance.

Was there not a prevous scandal about a recently appointed supreme court judge bringing down a government?

Incidentally, Dick Spring was there at that dinner. Ironic or what?

I see Woulfe has appologised for attending the dinner. I wonder if that is enough.

It was Brendan smith case and the AG that balls up that government of which dick spring was the tanaiste of. The AG wasn’t as forthcoming as he should have been about a section of an act and its use prior to the above case when there were multiple examples of that section being used.

L1011 · 21-08-2020 5:47pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Thre is another aspect of the event attended by 'well off aul lad' as one the COVID experts called them this morning.

How many women were at the event anyone knows?

The mix of ex media, judges, politicians which smacks of an elite, sidebar deals that never come to light, glad handling, movers and shakers.

In complete contrast to an open and transparent government.

The lack of understanding that times have moved on.

Ex-FF TD Aine Brady (nee Kitt) was there anyway, with her ex-FF TD husband.

Bellview · 22-08-2020 1:14am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Seamus Woulfe supreme court judge was in attendance.

Was there not a prevous scandal about a recently appointed supreme court judge bringing down a government?

Incidentally, Dick Spring was there at that dinner. Ironic or what?

I see Woulfe has appologised for attending the dinner. I wonder if that is enough.

I didn’t see spring name on the table plans that were shared .. are you sure he was there.. btw not condoning the event but also we should be fair to those that may not have attended..

Sam Russell · 22-08-2020 9:21am

Bellview wrote: »

I didn’t see spring name on the table plans that were shared .. are you sure he was there.. btw not condoning the event but also we should be fair to those that may not have attended..

It was reported on RTE radio that he was there - perhaps he was not.

Bellview · 22-08-2020 9:49am

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was reported on RTE radio that he was there - perhaps he was not.

Just saw indo today he wasn’t as they have named the politician and former politicians by table .. what I heard reported was he is an honorary member Of the golf society but did not attend .. There are Fake news social media posts naming politicians that were not there .. but like Coventry one that say his wife is niece of Larry etc ..

Bellview · 22-08-2020 9:53am

Sam Russell wrote: »

It was reported on RTE radio that he was there - perhaps he was not.

Just saw indo today he wasn’t as they have named the politician and former politicians by table .. what I heard reported was he is an honorary member Of the golf society but did not attend .. There are Fake news social media posts naming politicians that were not there .. but like Coventry one that say his wife is niece of Larry etc ..

Sam Russell · 22-08-2020 9:57am

Bellview wrote: »

Just saw indo today he wasn’t as they have named the politician and former politicians by table .. what I heard reported was he is an honorary member Of the golf society but did not attend .. There are Fake news social media posts naming politicians that were not there .. but like Coventry one that say his wife is niece of Larry etc ..

I assumed RTE had their facts correct. Obviously they had not.

Bellview · 22-08-2020 6:27pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I assumed RTE had their facts correct. Obviously they had not.

They have got it wrong a few tones before

L1011 · 22-08-2020 6:36pm

The seating plan had a few "Name&Spouse + 8" type entries which means not every attendee is listed.

beggars_bush · 22-08-2020 8:16pm

Surely all atendees had to provide contact tracing details?

L1011 · 22-08-2020 8:49pm

beggars_bush wrote: »

Surely all atendees had to provide contact tracing details?

They would have had to but it's also not public information

Bellview · 23-08-2020 9:38am

L1011 wrote: »

The seating plan had a few "Name&Spouse + 8" type entries which means not every attendee is listed.

Agreed but the indo only named all people of public interest.. judges politicians.. the dinner was a display of arrogance but also only the lads and ladies that attended should get hammered .. Not those that did not join

Bellview · 23-08-2020 9:38am

L1011 wrote: »

The seating plan had a few "Name&Spouse + 8" type entries which means not every attendee is listed.

Agreed but the indo only named all people of public interest.. judges politicians.. the dinner was a display of arrogance but also only the lads and ladies that attended should get hammered .. Not those that did not join

L1011 · 23-08-2020 5:28pm

If Big Phil is sacked by UvdL (I cannot see him resigning), who goes out to replace him?

They wanted a woman last year so I'd expect they'll still want a woman, and with no incumbent that shouldn't be an issue. There are plenty of good candidates, but...

1: Sending a current TD is suicide as the Government will lose the by-election to SF. Unless its a very specific constituency with a strong candidate from another party and no obvious SF candidate (Kildare South comes to mind); but even in those they're going to lose to the opposition
2: Sending an ex-TD who lost her seat in February would go down like a lead balloon
3: Sending a panel Senator could easily result in a lost seat and I think all the female Govt party ones are all 2020 ex-TDs anyway; sending a nominated Senator would be even worse in terms of being accused of croneyism.
4: Sending someone who is very long term retired would not look good either
5: Whoever it is has to be close enough to a Govt party and not have fallen out with them. I'd include PDs in this as they were in Govt with FF and many moved to FG in the end

Thinking of options and there's really not many I can think of once you've excluded all... Liz O'Donnell? Lucinda? (that wouldn't go down well in FG or that well outside I'd think)

Assuming no portfolio re-shuffle, appointing someone entirely outside politics with experience in the field could work and could easily be spun as "putting it above politics" or similar; but who would be willing to be reefed out of a probably better paying job to do it?

Sam Russell · 23-08-2020 5:34pm

L1011 wrote: »

If Big Phil is sacked by UvdL (I cannot see him resigning), who goes out to replace him?

They wanted a woman last year so I'd expect they'll still want a woman, and with no incumbent that shouldn't be an issue. There are plenty of good candidates, but...

1: Sending a current TD is suicide as the Government will lose the by-election to SF. Unless its a very specific constituency with a strong candidate from another party and no obvious SF candidate (Kildare South comes to mind); but even in those they're going to lose to the opposition
2: Sending an ex-TD who lost her seat in February would go down like a lead balloon
3: Sending a panel Senator could easily result in a lost seat and I think all the female Govt party ones are all 2020 ex-TDs anyway; sending a nominated Senator would be even worse in terms of being accused of croneyism.
4: Sending someone who is very long term retired would not look good either
5: Whoever it is has to be close enough to a Govt party and not have fallen out with them. I'd include PDs in this as they were in Govt with FF and many moved to FG in the end

Thinking of options and there's really not many I can think of once you've excluded all... Liz O'Donnell? Lucinda? (that wouldn't go down well in FG or that well outside I'd think)

Assuming no portfolio re-shuffle, appointing someone entirely outside politics with experience in the field could work and could easily be spun as "putting it above politics" or similar; but who would be willing to be reefed out of a probably better paying job to do it?

Mairead McGuinness

L1011 · 23-08-2020 5:45pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mairead McGuinness

Don't think she'd want it - sideways move at best.

Gabby McFadden gets the MEP seat if she did leave I believe.

Itssoeasy · 23-08-2020 5:57pm

It’ll be interesting to see who is the new agriculture minister when we get a new one.

L1011 · 23-08-2020 6:00pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It’ll be interesting to see who is the new agriculture minister when we get a new one.

FF, West and (relatively) Young is likely to be the requirement - Anne Rabbite or Marc MacSharry

James Lawless would probably be next in line for a different FF ministry if one came up and if they need to do a reshuffle of the deckchairs when the Taoiseach swaps he'll probably get one then.

WishUWereHere · 23-08-2020 7:14pm

L1011 wrote: »

FF, West and (relatively) Young is likely to be the requirement - Anne Rabbite or Marc MacSharry

James Lawless would probably be next in line for a different FF ministry if one came up and if they need to do a reshuffle of the deckchairs when the Taoiseach swaps he'll probably get one then.

Speaking of JL, You are in His constituency L, is he any good? Been hearing him being interviewed a lot recently.

Looking forward to tomorrow's radio current affairs programmes...should be interesting to say the least.

Any way of tempting Vincent Browne out of retirement? Clifdengate would be manna from Heaven to Vinny lol

Sam Russell · 23-08-2020 7:24pm

L1011 wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mairead McGuinness

Don't think she'd want it - sideways move at best.

Gabby McFadden gets the MEP seat if she did leave I believe.

Not at all. Commissioner is a much better gig than she has currently. Also, she could handle the trade post - she is able, well thought of, and knows her way around Brussels (and Strasbourg).

I think she would be a good choice - if one is needed.

I doubt Phil will go - he wont resign, and I doubt Von Der Leyden could (or would) sack him.

If he does go, Woulfe has to go as well, but he should go anyway. How do you justify a Supreme Court Judge attending a political gathering anyway.

Podge_irl · 23-08-2020 7:38pm

Suspect if Hogan goes (and he won't anyway) that his replacement wouldn't be getting the Trade role.

Itssoeasy · 23-08-2020 7:49pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Suspect if Hogan goes (and he won't anyway) that his replacement wouldn't be getting the Trade role.

You see that’s the thing that needs to be remembered here. We are not guaranteed the trade role and trade is very important and is it worth the risk ?

L1011 · 23-08-2020 9:09pm

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Speaking of JL, You are in His constituency L, is he any good? Been hearing him being interviewed a lot recently.

Looking forward to tomorrow's radio current affairs programmes...should be interesting to say the least.

Any way of tempting Vincent Browne out of retirement? Clifdengate would be manna from Heaven to Vinny lol

I don't vote for him but he's probably the least worst FF TD the constituency has had in my lifetime. I wasn't a fan of McCreevey. He'd be the second best of the current 4 TDs.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not at all. Commissioner is a much better gig than she has currently. Also, she could handle the trade post - she is able, well thought of, and knows her way around Brussels (and Strasbourg).

I think she would be a good choice - if one is needed.

I doubt Phil will go - he wont resign, and I doubt Von Der Leyden could (or would) sack him.

If he does go, Woulfe has to go as well, but he should go anyway. How do you justify a Supreme Court Judge attending a political gathering anyway.

Commissioner is clearly higher than MEP; but she has specific sights on head of the Parliament which is much the same.

Sam Russell · 23-08-2020 9:18pm

L1011 wrote: »

Commissioner is clearly higher than MEP; but she has specific sights on head of the Parliament which is much the same.

But a definite position is better than a possible one.

Also, she would need to be re-elected MEP, while if she cuts it as a commissioner, she might get o keep the position in five years time, or retire on a nice collection of pensions.

Good loser · 23-08-2020 11:59pm

Laws are enacted by legislators for the good of society in general.

They are not personal to either the proposers or those who vote through the measures.

The obligations to obey the law are the same for every citizen.

Breaches of the law should be punished as necessary in line with the provisions of the relevant Act.

That is sufficient.

bertiebomber · 24-08-2020 9:42am

phil hogan thinks hes irreplaceable he is arrogant and self serving - being on the table for ireland not at all he hates ireland and the irish establishment he gets 350,000 from Europe screw ireland.

W123-80's · 24-08-2020 4:56pm

Am I the only one who thinks Michael Martin got off lightly on this whole debacle?
The entire media witch hunt is focused on Phil Hogan.
The Taoiseach did an interview for 22 minutes on the 6 One news last Thursday or Friday and he was never once asked the most obvious question...
'Was he aware that this oireachtas golf outing was going ahead?'
I have not heard any media commentator make this point yet?
Surely if he knew it was going ahead he should have told them to cancel, and if he allowed it to go ahead his position is as untenable as Callearys and Hogan's.
If he didn't know it was going ahead then it's even worse and he has lost control.
Either way I think he is getting off very light.
I think he should be facing much harder questions for allowing this to go ahead. He is the bloody leader of our country.

Podge_irl · 24-08-2020 6:21pm

W123-80's wrote: »

If he didn't know it was going ahead then it's even worse and he has lost control.

It is "even worse and he has lost control" if he is not aware of the social calendar of a golf club? That is an utterly absurd reach.

As you succinctly point out, he is the leader of the country not the golf club's social secretary.

Bellview · 25-08-2020 1:11am

Podge_irl wrote: »

It is "even worse and he has lost control" if he is not aware of the social calendar of a golf club? That is an utterly absurd reach.

As you succinctly point out, he is the leader of the country not the golf club's social secretary.

I don’t understand how Cassidy and the other organisers have not stepped down .. as the golf society need some cleansing at the top as unfortunately they were also misguided with thinking event was ok .. infainess enda Kenny headed home after the golfing.. pity o there’s did not do the same

Roanmore · 25-08-2020 12:17pm

Bellview wrote: »

I don’t understand how Cassidy and the other organisers have not stepped down .. as the golf society need some cleansing at the top as unfortunately they were also misguided with thinking event was ok .. infainess enda Kenny headed home after the golfing.. pity o there’s did not do the same

It's been disbanded hasn't it?

Frank Bullitt · 25-08-2020 6:32pm

Hogan doing himself no favours with his tone on this at all.

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1298305532156153861

L1011 · 25-08-2020 6:34pm

Interview on RTE there where he tried to blame him mis-reading the citizens information website; blame his doctors; blame the hotel; blame the Hotels Federation etc etc etc.

The hotel management are not innocent but they are not responsible for an individual person going.

Frank Bullitt · 25-08-2020 6:58pm

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1298317427395239936

Citizes Info have hit back at him here.

James Brown · 25-08-2020 8:05pm

It seems Phil believes if you test negative for Covid you're good to go, go anywhere you like. I think he confused not having it with being immune to catching and spreading it.

Alice1 · 25-08-2020 11:27pm

He's a bit arrogant in my opinion. He came from a country that is not on the "green" list. What on earth made him think he was not to follow the guidelines all others have to follow? (He's not coming across as very bright)

Bellview · 26-08-2020 6:09pm

Alice1 wrote: »

He's a bit arrogant in my opinion. He came from a country that is not on the "green" list. What on earth made him think he was not to follow the guidelines all others have to follow? (He's not coming across as very bright)

Agree with you Completely On Phil

but how many tourists have traveled from UK and us and moved around the country and the tourists are bigger risk to health of state .. even some of us complaining about him may not be following all rules as well... walk into most hotels in Ireland and the only people wearing mask or shields are the staff.. everyone else is not..

Bellview · 26-08-2020 6:59pm

Alice1 wrote: »

He's a bit arrogant in my opinion. He came from a country that is not on the "green" list. What on earth made him think he was not to follow the guidelines all others have to follow? (He's not coming across as very bright)

Agree with you Completely On Phil

but how many tourists have traveled from UK and us and moved around the country and the tourists are bigger risk to health of state .. even some of us complaining about him may not be following all rules as well... walk into most hotels in Ireland and the only people wearing mask or shields are the staff.. everyone else is not..

Sam Russell · 26-08-2020 7:17pm

Well, he has resigned.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/phil-hogan-to-resign-as-eu-commissioner-amid-controversy-over-breaches-of-covid-19-restrictions-1.4339219

Larbre34 · 26-08-2020 8:06pm

If I had to choose his replacement myself, in the circumstances we are in, I'd send Bertie Ahern or John Moran.

Citizen2011 · 26-08-2020 8:12pm

Brian Hays also was in attendance and he epitomises the attitude “do as I say and not as I do”.

Sam Russell · 26-08-2020 8:14pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

If I had to choose his replacement myself, in the circumstances we are in, I'd send Bertie Ahern or John Moran.

Would either want it? Are either the right gender? Would either be able to command the trade portfolio?

Didn't think so.

I would pitch Mairead McGuinness, MEP.

Cole · 26-08-2020 8:20pm

Talk about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' from Micheal and co. They pushed and pushed and off he goes...

I've never been a Phil Hogan fan at all, but we've just lost a massive political presence in the EU...with Brexit hurtling down the tracks. By all accounts, he was good at his job and a bit brashness and arrogance (while not usually admirable) might be what is needed dealing with the British government in the coming months.

Our government shooting themselves in both feet. Phil will probably head off to a nice big corporate job somewhere.

L1011 · 26-08-2020 8:25pm

Cole wrote: »

Talk about 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' from Micheal and co. They pushed and pushed and off he goes...

I've never been a Phil Hogan fan at all, but we've just lost a massive political presence in the EU...with Brexit hurtling down the tracks. By all accounts, he was good at his job and a bit brashness and arrogance (while not usually admirable) might be what is needed dealing with the British government in the coming months.

Our government shooting themselves in both feet. Phil will probably head off to a nice big corporate job somewhere.

This angle is massively overblown.

He wanted to, and Leo/Michael supported him in, bugger off to the WTO only a few months ago.

The last few days have shown that when pressure is put on him, he is unreliable so everyone negotiating now knows how to get at him.

Its exceptionally unlikely they'll reshuffle the Commission so we'll still have Trade.

Golfgate: Multiple public figures breach COVID-19 restrictions

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