Las Vegas Shooting

King Mob · 04-10-2017 4:58pm

DinkyDinosaur wrote: »

You are not an authority on the subject. It's arrogant for you to say so. You don't know for a fact that they are wrong.

I'm confident in my conclusions.

They have claimed there will be martial law.
There is none.
They have claimed that guns will be taken.
They weren't.
They claimed that people will be put in camps.
They weren't

You claim that they're going to start a civil war.
Not going to hold my breath.

King Mob · 04-10-2017 5:01pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I do not know if you are being deliberately obtuse or too focused on the argument.

The first link you gave it took nine days for the "Police seek second suspect" from the time it happened.

This investigation is only a few days old and not over....

Sure...:rolleyes:

So at what point will you accept that the investigators aren't looking for a second shooter? Couple days? Next week? Never?

After that, will you then accept that there was no second shooter?

DinkyDinosaur · 04-10-2017 5:05pm

King Mob wrote: »

I'm confident in my conclusions.

They have claimed there will be martial law.
There is none.
They have claimed that guns will be taken.
They weren't.
They claimed that people will be put in camps.
They weren't

You claim that they're going to start a civil war.
Not going to hold my breath.

The story is far from over. Remember the tale of the hare and the tortoise?
It's unwise to be arrogant.

King Mob · 04-10-2017 5:07pm

DinkyDinosaur wrote: »

The story is far from over. Remember the tale of the hare and the tortoise?
It's unwise to be arrogant.

But you have seen the truth of the world and know secret truth and we're all fools for not believing you, right?
Bit arrogant I think... Specially with how you've not really addressed my point.

The claims you made about this shooting have been made before about other shootings...
They were wrong.
Your claims don't look that much different. You're not going to convince many people.

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2017 5:08pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I do not know if you are being deliberately obtuse or too focused on the argument.

The first link you gave it took nine days for the "Police seek second suspect" from the time it happened.

This investigation is only a few days old and not over....

It's the biggest mass shooting in US history

The investigators have repeatedly stated they aren't looking for more shooters. There is no current substantiated evidence or even suspicion there are more shooters.

In the most basic form they will have counted all the shots, counted all the spent shells on the floor of the hotel room, all will correlate with that info will the bullet wounds sustained - so on the most basic of levels (without going into further mountains of evidence) they can already be pretty confident of one shooter

On the other hand, a layman/amateur with extremely limited info who saw some flashing lights in Las Vegas on internet videos and has a suspicion there may be a second shooter based on entirely on that (rather flimsy) and subjective evidence is not compelling information. Likewise, there are other lay-people who believe the casualties and those involved are actors isn't compelling either

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 5:13pm

King Mob wrote: »

And this is just getting pedantic and silly.
If they believed there was a possibility or more gun men, that's what they would have said by now.
If there was evidence of more gun men, they would have found it by now.

You do not know that, guy had what 10 guns in his room?
Tomorrow they might find evidence someone help him load the guns into his car or unload his guns at the venue.

They might come out and say they are looks to speak to .....

King Mob wrote: »

When they say that they believe he acted alone, that's what they mean.
If they didn't believe that, and it wasn't what they were going on, that's not what they would have said.

I understand what the word means.

King Mob wrote: »

You were the one who deemed them the only ones who could say anything authoritive about the investigation.
But now you are trying to weasel out of that because it shuts down your pet idea.

The authorities do not think there is another gun man.

Shuts down my idea?
They maybe believe he acted a lone at this time, do you actually think that means they stop looking at other people?
The investigation is four days old, they will be looking at everyone he is connected too.

King Mob wrote: »

Cool. Based on armchair investigation of grainy youtube footage.
Forgive me if I don't take your analysis as fact.

The analysis is fact but I do not think you understand either one.

King Mob wrote: »

So it can be a reflection or it can be something mundane inside the room.

Which is more likely, those explanations, or a second shooter that the authorities have not mentioned?

The first two at this time are more likely, but I have already stated that.
You keep bringing this back as if I am trying to make a stronger case for the second shooter, I am not nor have I. I have asked the question around what this flashing light that looks like muzzle fire is.

King Mob wrote: »

We also see footage of a light blinking without gun fire.
Do you think that might be a clue?

A clue to what the flashing light is.... Could be.

turbbo · 04-10-2017 5:13pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's the biggest mass shooting in US history

The investigators have repeatedly stated they aren't looking for more shooters. There is no current substantiated evidence or even suspicion there are more shooters.

In the most basic form they will have counted all the shots, counted all the spent shells on the floor of the hotel room, all will correlate with that info will the bullet wounds sustained - so on the most basic of levels (without going into further mountains of evidence) they can already be pretty confident of one shooter

On the other hand, a layman/amateur with extremely limited info who saw some flashing lights in Las Vegas on internet videos and has a suspicion there may be a second shooter based on entirely on that (rather flimsy) and subjective evidence is not compelling information. Likewise, there are other lay-people who believe the casualties and those involved are actors isn't compelling either

If you allow me to condense your comment - "there are people - some of those people are idiots".

DinkyDinosaur · 04-10-2017 5:20pm

King Mob wrote: »

But you have seen the truth of the world and know secret truth and we're all fools for not believing you, right?
Bit arrogant I think... Specially with how you've not really addressed my point.

The claims you made about this shooting have been made before about other shootings...
They were wrong.
Your claims don't look that much different. You're not going to convince many people.

You remind me of a narcissist ex of mine. He used to twist my words around and was so arrogant and dismissove. You're twisting everything around.

It's blatantly obvious. You're gaslighting.
And you're doing it to Show me the Cash too.

People can make up their own minds. I'm sharing my intuition on the whole thing based on pretty in depth research over the years. You can be dismissive and condescending all you like. I know what I know and you can't change that.

Something strange is going on and to say everything is normal is just ludicrous.

Now before I give myself an aneurysm conversing with you further I'll bid thee adeu.

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 5:22pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's the biggest mass shooting in US history

The investigators have repeatedly stated they aren't looking for more shooters. There is no current substantiated evidence or even suspicion there are more shooters.

In the most basic form they will have counted all the shots, counted all the spent shells on the floor of the hotel room, all will correlate with that info will the bullet wounds sustained - so on the most basic of levels (without going into further mountains of evidence) they can already be pretty confident of one shooter

On the other hand, a layman/amateur with extremely limited info who saw some flashing lights in Las Vegas on internet videos and has a suspicion there may be a second shooter based on entirely on that (rather flimsy) and subjective evidence is not compelling information. Likewise, there are other lay-people who believe the casualties and those involved are actors isn't compelling either

Bit like an amateur who seems to think he knows the investigation process inside out, what ballistics they have carried out, who they have investigated and whether or not they are currently investigating anyone else. I make no assertions I just ask the question around the footage.

You on the other hand I think have watched too many episodes of CSI.

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 5:26pm

turbbo wrote: »

If you allow me to condense your comment - "there are people - some of those people are idiots".

Boards 101 - Let's make an argument against a position no one has taken.
It is easy to win an argument you have made up entirely in your own head!

murphthesmurf · 04-10-2017 5:34pm

DinkyDinosaur wrote: »

I said the goal was civil war so confiscating guns wouldn't make any sense. That would just slow down the mutual destruction of American's.

I said the goal was detention of undesirable people. That's not the same thing as martial law. The plan is a long range one. It is the long con. So no-one has been proved wrong and you have not proved yourself to be any kind of authority at all.

In fact there are numerous reports of homeless people going missing and strange goings on during the hurricanes.

So they orchestrated a mass shooting at a music concert in order to make undesirable homeless people dissappear?
What are the 'strange goings on' you talk of during the hurricane?

It is a convenient argument that it is 'a long con'. It can never be disproven until its time is up, which is a very long time, nobody knows how long. I have a plan to win the lotto. You might laugh that I didn't win this week, but its a long plan that will be proven right when I eventually win. You might all die before I win though, but trust me,mit will happen.

King Mob · 04-10-2017 5:36pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

You do not know that, guy had what 10 guns in his room?
Tomorrow they might find evidence someone help him load the guns into his car or unload his guns at the venue.

You are moving the goalposts. This is not about people helping him load guns.
This is about a second shooter.
If there was a second shooter, then they would have found him and his nest the same way they did with the real shooter who actually existed.

They would know if there was a second shooter or not by now.
They don't believe there is.

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

They maybe believe he acted a lone at this time, do you actually think that means they stop looking at other people?
The investigation is four days old, they will be looking at everyone he is connected too.

Yes. That is why they have said that and they are specifically looking for his girlfriend.

What they are not looking for is another gun man.
At what point will you accept that they are not looking for one?
When this point comes, will you accept that there is no second gun man? Yes or no?

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

The analysis is fact but I do not think you understand either one.

You analysis is not fact because 1. you are you sub par evidence, ie, snippets of very low quality footage that is constantly moving. and 2. You are baised towards the possibility that it's a second gun man despite all common sense being against that.

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

The first two at this time are more likely, but I have already stated that.
You keep bringing this back as if I am trying to make a stronger case for the second shooter, I am not nor have I. I have asked the question around what this flashing light that looks like muzzle fire is.

But it only superficially looks like muzzle fire and you agree that there are other possible, more likely explanations.

So why entertain the very unlikely, nonsensical idea that it might be muzzle fire?

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Y
A clue to what the flashing light is.... Could be.

Well now we know it can't be gunfire because there it is flashing both before and after the actual incident.

Overheal · 04-10-2017 5:37pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's the biggest mass shooting in US history

Actually, it's been pointed out that the biggest mass shooting in US history is still Wounded Knee (by deaths anyway).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre

As for the flash/lighting I think folks are right, it's now abundantly clear the 4th floor windows were never damaged, which is the primary source of a lot of speculation on the matter.

Additionally I began wondering about the lack of "gruesome" media coverage, but those photos too, are available online (and you're fine to post links them here if you have them handy, just mark it NSFW).

Every tragic event will have some degree of misinformation and red herring evidence (Eg. the 4th floor situation) but I don't think it's productive to rip people apart for having doubts.

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 5:41pm

Overheal wrote: »

Actually, it's been pointed out that the biggest mass shooting in US history is still Wounded Knee (by deaths anyway).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wounded_Knee_Massacre

As for the flash/lighting I think folks are right, it's now abundantly clear the 4th floor windows were never damaged, which is the primary source of a lot of speculation on the matter.

Additionally I began wondering about the lack of "gruesome" media coverage, but those photos too, are available online (and you're fine to post links them here if you have them handy, just mark it NSFW).

Every tragic event will have some degree of misinformation and red herring evidence (Eg. the 4th floor situation) but I don't think it's productive to rip people apart for having doubts.

Hey do not make the mistake of even asking a questions around the footage CSI Tweedleone and Tweedletwo apparently work for the Las Vegas police dept.

iLikeWaffles · 04-10-2017 5:52pm

Just to continue my earlier post....

Clearly there is a reasonable explanation for the flashes coming from the lower half of the building 40 story building(?) ¼ the way up so around the 10th, or there about, floor. I surmised earlier in post #24 which was a reasonable argument, that has been completely ignored, that it might be the effect of the car moving down the street. But it still does not explain why you don't see any "flash" in either the 4th/10th or 32nd floor in the camera angle that views from the concert itself (poor camera quality or not).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVnNKOKVhx4

This video shows the flash coming from around the 10th floor they are not in sync with the cracking of gunfire which they should be! Light travels faster than sound this is true but they should still be in sync and being out of sync in this case is also out of time with the rate of fire. As you can clearly see from the above video as it is slowed. Which also blows my theory of the car causing the light to flash because of the person recording being stationary. Again though it does not show flashes from gunfire from the 32nd so lets just assume for a moment that there were no flashes from gunfire seen and there is a reasonable explanation for the flashes in the video I posted and the flash in the car which also is in the same location as the video above not the 4th floor!

Could it be possible that the hotel uses the flash to attract the gaze of people passing it. Vegas is renowned for attracting the attention of possible customers with the use of flashing lights. It is far more reasonable to assume the light flashing was being used to attract the attention of people. The other video shows the light being purple and flashing. There is no broken window on 10th floor where the flashes were so explain that please if that is where the "muzzle flash" was coming from!

While that's being explained please also include the explanation why there was no flashes recorded from 32nd floor! Where the two windows are broken. 2 windows being broken does not automatically mean that there was 2 shooters either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNiRr763gJA

With the flashing from the 10th floor in the above video the flash starts approximately 2.5 seconds before you hear the sound of gun fire, that's being associated, with the flash from the muzzle of an assault riffle. Now lets just do the maths on that -

The speed of sound is 331.2 metres per second
Without knowing what the exact gun being fired was. Lets assume it was a modern high performance AR 1200/ms

The building height to the roof is 146.31m
The building has 43 floors

146/43=3.4m per floor (not taken the roof into account)
3.4 meters x 4 (4th floor) = 13.6 meters
3.4m x 10 = 34m
3.4 x 32 = 108m

Time = Distance ÷ Speed

2.5 seconds is what we want to be seeing for either the 10th or 4th floors as the flash was on the lower floors no where near the broken windows then that does not matter!

xTime = 34m (10th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.02
xTime = 108m (32nd floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.09
xTime = 13.6 (4th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.0011

Now either the laws of physics have been broken here or the flash was not from a gun!

Now just to give you some perspective it would take .44 seconds for any normal sound to travel to the ground from the roof and 0.12 seconds that's 12ms for an AR.

Science B1tch

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 6:07pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Just to continue my earlier post....

Could it be possible that the hotel uses the flash to attract the gaze of people passing it. Vegas is renowned for attracting the attention of possible customers with the use of flashing lights. It is far more reasonable to assume the light flashing was being used to attract the attention of people. The other video shows the light being purple and flashing. There is no broken window on 10th floor where the flashes were so explain that please if that is where the "muzzle flash" was coming from!

While that's being explained please also include the explanation why there was no flashes recorded from 32nd floor! Where the two windows are broken. 2 windows being broken does not automatically mean that there was 2 shooters either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNiRr763gJA

With the flashing from the 10th floor in the above video the flash starts approximately 2.5 seconds before you hear the sound of gun fire, that's being associated, with the flash from the muzzle of an assault riffle. Now lets just do the maths on that -

The speed of sound is 331.2 metres per second
Without knowing what the exact gun being fired was. Lets assume it was a modern high performance AR 1200/ms

The building height to the roof is 146.31m
The building has 43 floors

146/43=3.4m per floor (not taken the roof into account)
3.4 meters x 4 (4th floor) = 13.6 meters
3.4m x 10 = 34m
3.4 x 32 = 108m

Time = Distance ÷ Speed

2.5 seconds is what we want to be seeing for either the 10th or 4th floors as the flash was on the lower floors no where near the broken windows then that does not matter!

xTime = 34m (10th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.02
xTime = 108m (32nd floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.09
xTime = 13.6 (4th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.0011

Now either the laws of physics have been broken here or the flash was not from a gun!

Now just to give you some perspective it would take .44 seconds for any normal sound to travel to the ground from the roof and 0.12 seconds that's 12ms for an AR.

Science B1tch

The biggest issue with any of this is the device it is being recorded on.
The Audio to video sync can be unreliable but it does appear like the blinking started a good 1 to 2 seconds before we hear the noise.

DinkyDinosaur · 04-10-2017 6:19pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fp3xgmQgiA

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=658&q=las+vegas+shooting+wounds&oq=las+vegas+shooting+wounds&gs_l=img.3...2587.15608.0.16363.26.26.0.0.0.0.112.1696.23j2.25.0....0...1.1.64.img..1.20.1315.0..0j0i8i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i24k1j0i30k1.0.mpMhuYu7rDw#imgrc=zPtNEqxgrzGDuM:

iLikeWaffles · 04-10-2017 6:40pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

The biggest issue with any of this is the device it is being recorded on.
The Audio to video sync can be unreliable but it does appear like the blinking started a good 1 to 2 seconds before we hear the noise.

Well it's a mobile upload. So it most likely got uploaded to youtube from the mobile so from the source. There is multiple examples in the video that the audio and video are in sync.

3.58 the car goes over a bump which can be seen and heard in sync!
4.28 the window goes down the sound is in sync as is the timing of the taxi drivers dialogue with people standing outside the hotel
4.56 the taxi driver pans the camera towards the building and notices the flash and says "oh ****" that dialogue is boxy sounding meaning that the space between the window and the mic on the phone has a shorter distance to travel so is having what they call in acoustics proximity effect. Also in sync Most importantly!
5.18 Just after the taxi driver sh1tes herself the car goes over another bump. Both audible and in sync!
Troughout the engine acceleration noises. In sync! Car door being shut by taxi driver 18.18

Video is perfectly in sync.

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 6:50pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Well it's a mobile upload. So it most likely got uploaded to youtube from the mobile so from the source. There is multiple examples in the video that the audio and video are in sync.

3.58 the car goes over a bump which can be seen and heard in sync!
4.28 the window goes down the sound is in sync as is the timing of the taxi drivers dialogue with people standing outside the hotel
4.56 the taxi driver pans the camera towards the building and notices the flash and says "oh ****" that dialogue is boxy sounding meaning that the space between the window and the mic on the phone has a shorter distance to travel so is having what they call in acoustics proximity effect. Also in sync Most importantly!
5.18 Just after the taxi driver sh1ts herself the car goes over another bump. Both audible and in sync!
Troughout the engine acceleration noises. In sync! Car door being shut by taxi driver 18.18

Video is perfectly in sync.

I have viewed the video it is a little hard to make out as there seems to be palm trees but I see the first flash as 4:57 and I do not hear the first pop until 4:59 so the OP does make a point.

iLikeWaffles · 04-10-2017 6:56pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I have viewed the video it is a little hard to make out as there seems to be palm trees but I see the first flash as 4:57 and I do not hear the first pop until 4:59 so the OP does make a point.

Right but does that address the issue of the audio and video being in sync? Throughout the video. Do you believe that the time it takes for the first pop to be heard and then displayed in the video would correspond with the video being in sync based on the observations I made for you claim that they could be unreliable.

Edit: short clip of the extended version taken down off youtube.

ShowMeTheCash · 04-10-2017 8:39pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Right but does that address the issue of the audio and video being in sync? Throughout the video. Do you believe that the time it takes for the first pop to be heard and then displayed in the video would correspond with the video being in sync based on the observations I made for you claim that they could be unreliable.

Edit: short clip of the extended version taken down off youtube.

I already made the observation, maybe just read the whole thing

The Audio to video sync can be unreliable but it does appear like the blinking started a good 1 to 2 seconds before we hear the noise.

As an engineer I have worked on data compression and streaming software in the past I know all to well the issues around synchronization of the video and audio feeds, but even with that said I acknowledge there seems to be a real gap of 2 seconds between the blink and the pop.

Dohnjoe · 04-10-2017 9:05pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I make no assertions I just ask the question around the footage.

The issue is that you don't seem to like the answers or explanations you are receiving

Even Snopes has had to put something up
http://www.snopes.com/second-gunman-shoot-fourth-floor-mandalay-bay/

"There is no evidence to support the claim that there were multiple shooters or that those shooters’ muzzle flashes could be seen from the fourth floor of the resort. "

You on the other hand I think have watched too many episodes of CSI.

No, just spent far too much time on conspiracy theory forums

iLikeWaffles · 04-10-2017 9:56pm

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I already made the observation, maybe just read the whole thing

The Audio to video sync can be unreliable but it does appear like the blinking started a good 1 to 2 seconds before we hear the noise.

As an engineer I have worked on data compression and streaming software in the past I know all to well the issues around synchronization of the video and audio feeds, but even with that said I acknowledge there seems to be a real gap of 2 seconds between the blink and the pop.

No, I was the one who made the observation which you then replied to.

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

The biggest issue with any of this is the device it is being recorded on.
The Audio to video sync can be unreliable but it does appear like the blinking started a good 1 to 2 seconds before we hear the noise.

I then went on to add. Which you have seemed to have not answered again!

Well it's a mobile upload. So it most likely got uploaded to youtube from the mobile so from the source. There is multiple examples in the video that the audio and video are in sync.

3.58 the car goes over a bump which can be seen and heard in sync!
4.28 the window goes down the sound is in sync as is the timing of the taxi drivers dialogue with people standing outside the hotel
4.56 the taxi driver pans the camera towards the building and notices the flash and says "oh ****" that dialogue is boxy sounding meaning that the space between the window and the mic on the phone has a shorter distance to travel so is having what they call in acoustics proximity effect. Also in sync Most importantly!
5.18 Just after the taxi driver sh1tes herself the car goes over another bump. Both audible and in sync!
Troughout the engine acceleration noises. In sync! Car door being shut by taxi driver 18.18

Video is perfectly in sync.

↑↑ this is what may previous question is based on so yet again - does that address the issue of the audio and video being in sync? Throughout the video. Do you believe that the time it takes for the first pop to be heard and then displayed in the video would correspond with the video being in sync based on the observations I made for your claim that they could be unreliable.

I'm not asking about the first pop you hear approximately 2.5 seconds after the flash I already know how long it takes. Its a simple question have I just proven that the video is in sync with the audio?

Overheal · 04-10-2017 10:31pm

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

With the flashing from the 10th floor in the above video the flash starts approximately 2.5 seconds before you hear the sound of gun fire, that's being associated, with the flash from the muzzle of an assault riffle. Now lets just do the maths on that -

The speed of sound is 331.2 metres per second
Without knowing what the exact gun being fired was. Lets assume it was a modern high performance AR 1200/ms

The building height to the roof is 146.31m
The building has 43 floors

146/43=3.4m per floor (not taken the roof into account)
3.4 meters x 4 (4th floor) = 13.6 meters
3.4m x 10 = 34m
3.4 x 32 = 108m

Time = Distance ÷ Speed

2.5 seconds is what we want to be seeing for either the 10th or 4th floors as the flash was on the lower floors no where near the broken windows then that does not matter!

xTime = 34m (10th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.02
xTime = 108m (32nd floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.09
xTime = 13.6 (4th floor) ÷ 1200m/s = 0.0011

Now either the laws of physics have been broken here or the flash was not from a gun!

Now just to give you some perspective it would take .44 seconds for any normal sound to travel to the ground from the roof and 0.12 seconds that's 12ms for an AR.

Science B1tch

I stopwatched it at roughly 1.5 seconds, from my phone, not very precise, but eh.

I'm not sure why you calculated the muzzle velocity of the bullet, since its not that relevant to when you hear the sound from the bullet (which happens at the muzzle, where it breaks the sound barrier, the bullet in travel does not continue producing noise)

So for a height of about 30m, did you also account for the distance from the road? Must apply some trigonometry here. The driver was about 350-400ft away, for conservative values lets call it 400ft or 120m, so if the shooter was at 30m up, the true distance for sound travel would have been 124m, roughly.

124m / 340 m/s = 0.365 seconds.

So, your math was wrong.

Not saying I'm arguing still that there might have been a 4th floor shooter, but wanted to point out this bad math. It bothered me

iLikeWaffles · 04-10-2017 11:02pm

Overheal wrote: »

I stopwatched it at roughly 1.5 seconds, from my phone, not very precise, but eh.

I'm not sure why you calculated the muzzle velocity of the bullet, since its not that relevant to when you hear the sound from the bullet (which happens at the muzzle, where it breaks the sound barrier, the bullet in travel does not continue producing noise)

So for a height of about 30m, did you also account for the distance from the road? Must apply some trigonometry here. The driver was about 350-400ft away, for conservative values lets call it 400ft or 120m, so if the shooter was at 30m up, the true distance for sound travel would have been 124m, roughly.

124m / 340 m/s = 0.365 seconds.

So, your math was wrong.

Not saying I'm arguing still that there might have been a 4th floor shooter, but wanted to point out this bad math. It bothered me

I realise that and I was just not arsed doing it. I didn't take into account the speed of light either or the shutter speed of the camera or how fast the car was travelling or the temperature of the air. Its a rough calculation, approximated, based on a straight line of sight from the foot of the building to the floors. But still the time it should have taken to hear the shots and the corresponding "muzzle flash" is way off.

It is negligible the distance from the building the car is away anyway because its such a short distance and even with your approximation it does not come close to the generous 1.5 seconds and velocity. AR rounds would be supersonic that is why their muzzle flash is so noticeable and the sound is so loud. Even if you do the calculation for the normal speed of sound it is way off.

Overheal · 05-10-2017 3:01am

Again, the bullets could be Mach 1.7 but the sound they make would still travel at the same speed. That's my point.

iLikeWaffles · 05-10-2017 3:18am

Overheal wrote: »

Again, the bullets could be Mach 1.7 but the sound they make would still travel at the same speed. That's my point.

Alright Maybe so, you're saying that the muzzle flash from any gun will always be the same speed right? I'm no gun expert so you might be right. Taking the new speed of 331.2m/s, the speed of sound, does that make the flash from the window and the first pop from the gun equal to the corresponding approximate distance the car was away from the flash using the time it took for you to see the flashing and your finger to hit the button on the stopwatch?

Take the speed of sound 331.2 and the time 1.5 multiply them and that is how far the vehicle was away from the flash. 496.8 meters (.49km) did the vehicle look like it was that far away? (340x1.5=510)

Lickin2me · 05-10-2017 5:15am

What do stupid yanks expect. Handing out high powered automtic guns. Obvious some nut will always go crazy. They need stop allowing people have these weapons. Why would a perdon actually need them. Ok have one gun hand gun but thats it. Stupid yanks. Would nearly guarntee there is other nuts waiting and planning to copycat the evil bastard

Panrich · 05-10-2017 7:41am

Are there any pictures of broken windows on the fourth floor? I thought high rise hotel room windows do not open at all. There are big holes in the windows of Paddocks room.

RocketRaccoon · 05-10-2017 7:56am

Panrich wrote: »

Are there any pictures of broken windows on the fourth floor? I thought high rise hotel room windows do not open at all. There are big holes in the windows of Paddocks room.

Don't be coming in here making sense and asking proper questions! I tried it yesterday and of course, got no answer.

King Mob · 05-10-2017 8:28am

Panrich wrote: »

Are there any pictures of broken windows on the fourth floor? I thought high rise hotel room windows do not open at all. There are big holes in the windows of Paddocks room.

There are no such pictures.
It's been suggested that those windows might be the kind that open in a desperate attempt to preserve the conspiracy theory, but it's pretty clear that they could not.

If the windows had been broken at some point, there'd be either pictures of it and conspiracy theorists would be pointing to it vigorously.

The best they have is a flashing light and nothing else.

BoatMad · 05-10-2017 8:31am

You have to laugh at the attempts at deflection , false flag nonsense , conspiracy theories , all along the lines of Aliens in Are 54 and Elvis is walking around Las Vegas

everything except the reality, either gun control works or the US has a far higher proportion of crazy mass killers

weisses · 05-10-2017 9:35am

Sherrif of Las Vegas is a conspiracy theorist to

During his press conference he said it was hard to believe there was only one shooter

The world has gone mad :rolleyes:

King Mob · 05-10-2017 9:52am

weisses wrote: »

Sherrif of Las Vegas is a conspiracy theorist to

During his press conference he said it was hard to believe there was only one shooter

The world has gone mad :rolleyes:

This is a dishonest twisting of his words.

He did not say there was more than one shooter.
He did not say anything about supporting the silly nonsensical conspiracy theories.

turbbo · 05-10-2017 11:58am

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Boards 101 - Let's make an argument against a position no one has taken.
It is easy to win an argument you have made up entirely in your own head!

- The Sage has spoken.

chewed · 05-10-2017 1:08pm

Some interesting points raised here

murphthesmurf · 05-10-2017 1:50pm

chewed wrote: »

Some interesting points raised here

No, there isn't. Just some desperate conspiracy theorist trying to create something out of nothing. Haven't you read the other comments here?

WMP · 05-10-2017 1:54pm

Can anyone link to a video or photo backing up the official story? I haven't found any evidence despite looking. That can't be possible. It does not look like a place that was torn to pieces by machine gun fire. I don't get it. When the shooting starts it should be possible (from someones camera) to see the area being sprayed with bullets. All I can see are people with what look like minor injuries from the stampede. I cant even imagine how horrific a scene with 59 bullet riddled bodies must look like, and how there is zero footage of this.

chewed · 05-10-2017 1:55pm

murphthesmurf wrote: »

No, there isn't. Just some desperate conspiracy theorist trying to create something out of nothing. Haven't you read the other comments here?

OK, so I'm not entitled to my own opinions? I thought this was a "Conspiracy Theories" thread? No? Most of the posts appear to be fixated with supposed flashing lights from the lower windows!

RocketRaccoon · 05-10-2017 1:56pm

WMP wrote: »

Can anyone link to a video or photo backing up the official story? I haven't found any evidence despite looking. That can't be possible. It does not look like a place that was torn to pieces by machine gun fire. I don't get it. When the shooting starts it should be possible (from someones camera) to see the area being sprayed with bullets. All I can see are people with what look like minor injuries from the stampede. I cant even imagine how horrific a scene with 59 bullet riddled bodies must look like, and how there is zero footage of this.

There was very graphic and horrific footage posted on reddit yesterday.

WMP · 05-10-2017 2:04pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

There was very graphic and horrific footage posted on reddit yesterday.

did see it. any link?

RocketRaccoon · 05-10-2017 2:04pm

WMP wrote: »

did see it. any link?

I don't have it, probably easy enough to find. The post on reddit was deleted.

DinkyDinosaur · 05-10-2017 2:11pm

This was posted on 4chan a few weeks back on Sept 11 2017.

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/uid/LAbNFEtv/

look i feel bad for some of you on this website. so i'll let you in on a little secret. if you live in las vegas or henderson stay inside tomorrow. don't go anywhere where there are large groups of people. also if you see three blacks vans parked next to each other immediately leave the area. you're welcome
-john

it's called the "high incident project". they want to make the american public think that places with extremely high security aren't safe. they are trying to create more regulations. you will see laws proposed within the next few years to put up more metal detectors and other security devices. media and politicians will be saying places with lots of police need even more police. i can't guarantee anything will happen tomorrow but las vegas is on their minds.
-john

if their plan is successful state of nevada will pass a law in the future making all casinos have mandatory metal detectors and backscatter machines. soon after a federal law will be passed to put these machines in universities, high schools, federal buildings, you name it. osi systems and chertoff are the main producers of these machines. sometime around 2020 chertoff and osi will merge into a single company. after they merge the owners will sell off all their stock and make billions in profit. mr chertoff has been in contact with sheldon adelson. mr adelson will become a huge sponsor of these machines and he will be the first to put them in his casinos when the law passes. this is my last message for now. don't expect me to return anytime soon
-john

So I googled Sheldon Anderson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Adelson

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353681-trump-met-with-sheldon-adelson-after-las-vegas-shooting-report

Trump met with Sheldon Adelson after Las Vegas shooting: report

President Trump met with casino magnate and GOP megadonor Sheldon Adelson and his wife Miriam at the White House on Monday, discussing the mass shooting in Las Vegas that left 59 people dead and more than 500 injured.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported Tuesday that the meeting at the White House had been scheduled before news of the attack on the country music festival on the Vegas strip reached Washington early Monday morning.

The meeting was intended as a policy discussion, but Trump and the Adelsons reportedly also discussed how to help those affected by the shooting.

Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner was allegedly also at the meeting.

Adelson, the owner of the Las Vegas Sands casino and resort company, was among Trump's largest donors during the 2016 presidential campaign, giving millions to pro-Trump super PACs.

The meeting on Monday came hours after a gunman opened fire on the music festival from his hotel room at the Mandalay Bay. The shooter, identified as 64-year-old Stephen Paddock, was found dead in the room when SWAT teams stormed the hotel.

The shooting in Las Vegas is the deadliest in modern U.S. history. Trump is expected to visit the city on Wednesday to meet with first responders and the families of victims.

The Adelson family bought The Las Vegas Review-Journal in 2015. Last October, the Review-Journal gave Trump his first major newspaper endorsement.

pilly · 05-10-2017 2:27pm

WMP wrote: »

did see it. any link?

Jesus H Christ. :mad:

DinkyDinosaur · 05-10-2017 2:27pm

The Long Con

The long con refers to any of a variety of cons which require more planning, preparation, a longer window of interaction with the con's target, the mark, and a longer period of time to execute. The long con may also require a large crew or a larger number of involved people to pull off the deception needed to relieve the mark of their cash or other valuables. Unlike a short con, the long con requires time to slowly draw the mark or marks into the con, but often results in very large pay-outs. Because of the difficulty in organization and execution, long cons are considered to be for experts, not the province of new, young con men.

Traditionally, the term "long con" has referred to an elaborate con of one or more marks which ends with the payout, when the marks surrender their money or valuables. Long cons play on one or both basic human frailties: greed and desperation, both qualities are also usually found in the mark. A classic example of a traditional long con is "The Wire Scam", as shown in the film The Sting. Contemporary long cons such as boiler rooms, cash-for-gold, or Ponzi (pyramid) schemes involve multiple marks, often in sizable numbers, and a gradual payout, but are able to stay in place for long periods of time because of their seeming legitimacy. The line between a genuine long con and garden variety fraud may be a fine one, such as in the case of Bernard Madoff's elaborate security fraud.

The Players in the Con

There are three key players in any long con: a victim, a con artist, and one or more associates.

The Mark: The intended victim of
The Grifter: A practitioner of confidence tricks, or more informally, a con artist. A grifter may play many roles, and often creates multiple personas over their career.
The Shill: An accomplice to the grifter, who has no apparent connection to the con. Shills are put in place to encourage the mark to act in the desired way.

A long con is executed in one or two settings: a real world setting, or an empty room, known as a big store set up to look like a real world setting, such as a stock trading room. For a long con to work, it requires a team of grifters, which play a variety of roles. Some players may be experts at one role, others can change them up as the con demands.

The Roper: The member of the crew who identifies the mark, and lures the mark in. The roper usually begins by finding a way to get close to the mark, insinuating himself into the mark's life. Slowly, he or she makes the con sound enticing by offering the mark what he seems to want, leading up to an introduction to the inside man. From there, the roper's job is to keep the mark interested. He or she may create the illusion they are a participant in whatever opportunity the con offers the mark. The roper is often an older man with the appearance of affluence or an enticing woman, who embodies what the mark aspires to: wealth and the attention of a beautiful woman.
The Inside Man: The crew member in charge, who executes the con.

The Fixer: Often works near, but not close, to The Inside Man, as back-up and coordinate resources as the con unfolds. This is probably the most versatile role in the con, and the person has to have a combination of skills, from Grifting to Hitting. Often this person will wear more than one alias during the con, so they need to be easy for the Mark to forget.
The Face: A shill, generally an attractive female used to distract or encourage the mark.
The Outside Man: This could be a potential threat (as a fake Law Enforcement Official) or a potential fake target for the Mark to exploit, to gain the Mark's confidence.
The Floater: A secondary Inside Man, who can work in conjunction on The Mark, or work a secondary angle on the same con.

Other Specialized Roles

Specialized players may be hired on an as needed basis, but are not part of a regular crew. These may also be secondary roles regular crew members play if they have the appropriate skills.

The Forger: Some cons require forgeries to fool the Mark.
The Thief/Greaseman: Some cons require a person skilled in security infiltration, and not just a pickpocket.
The Hacker: As cons become more and more highly technical, a crew might need an expert in cyber-security. These roles also allow a fixer to work in more of a tech-support role behind the scenes, in support of the crew members in the field.
The Wheelman: Some cons require a good person behind the wheel of a car, who is good at both tailing a mark, or running from Law Enforcement.

The Bagman: Some cons require someone to handle the money.

http://leverage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Con

pilly · 05-10-2017 2:33pm

DinkyDinosaur wrote: »

The Long Con

The long con refers to any of a variety of cons which require more planning, preparation, a longer window of interaction with the con's target, the mark, and a longer period of time to execute. The long con may also require a large crew or a larger number of involved people to pull off the deception needed to relieve the mark of their cash or other valuables. Unlike a short con, the long con requires time to slowly draw the mark or marks into the con, but often results in very large pay-outs. Because of the difficulty in organization and execution, long cons are considered to be for experts, not the province of new, young con men.

Traditionally, the term "long con" has referred to an elaborate con of one or more marks which ends with the payout, when the marks surrender their money or valuables. Long cons play on one or both basic human frailties: greed and desperation, both qualities are also usually found in the mark. A classic example of a traditional long con is "The Wire Scam", as shown in the film The Sting. Contemporary long cons such as boiler rooms, cash-for-gold, or Ponzi (pyramid) schemes involve multiple marks, often in sizable numbers, and a gradual payout, but are able to stay in place for long periods of time because of their seeming legitimacy. The line between a genuine long con and garden variety fraud may be a fine one, such as in the case of Bernard Madoff's elaborate security fraud.

The Players in the Con

There are three key players in any long con: a victim, a con artist, and one or more associates.

The Mark: The intended victim of
The Grifter: A practitioner of confidence tricks, or more informally, a con artist. A grifter may play many roles, and often creates multiple personas over their career.
The Shill: An accomplice to the grifter, who has no apparent connection to the con. Shills are put in place to encourage the mark to act in the desired way.

A long con is executed in one or two settings: a real world setting, or an empty room, known as a big store set up to look like a real world setting, such as a stock trading room. For a long con to work, it requires a team of grifters, which play a variety of roles. Some players may be experts at one role, others can change them up as the con demands.

The Roper: The member of the crew who identifies the mark, and lures the mark in. The roper usually begins by finding a way to get close to the mark, insinuating himself into the mark's life. Slowly, he or she makes the con sound enticing by offering the mark what he seems to want, leading up to an introduction to the inside man. From there, the roper's job is to keep the mark interested. He or she may create the illusion they are a participant in whatever opportunity the con offers the mark. The roper is often an older man with the appearance of affluence or an enticing woman, who embodies what the mark aspires to: wealth and the attention of a beautiful woman.
The Inside Man: The crew member in charge, who executes the con.

The Fixer: Often works near, but not close, to The Inside Man, as back-up and coordinate resources as the con unfolds. This is probably the most versatile role in the con, and the person has to have a combination of skills, from Grifting to Hitting. Often this person will wear more than one alias during the con, so they need to be easy for the Mark to forget.
The Face: A shill, generally an attractive female used to distract or encourage the mark.
The Outside Man: This could be a potential threat (as a fake Law Enforcement Official) or a potential fake target for the Mark to exploit, to gain the Mark's confidence.
The Floater: A secondary Inside Man, who can work in conjunction on The Mark, or work a secondary angle on the same con.

Other Specialized Roles

Specialized players may be hired on an as needed basis, but are not part of a regular crew. These may also be secondary roles regular crew members play if they have the appropriate skills.

The Forger: Some cons require forgeries to fool the Mark.
The Thief/Greaseman: Some cons require a person skilled in security infiltration, and not just a pickpocket.
The Hacker: As cons become more and more highly technical, a crew might need an expert in cyber-security. These roles also allow a fixer to work in more of a tech-support role behind the scenes, in support of the crew members in the field.
The Wheelman: Some cons require a good person behind the wheel of a car, who is good at both tailing a mark, or running from Law Enforcement.

The Bagman: Some cons require someone to handle the money.

http://leverage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Long_Con

Is this a new game on Boards? Can I be the bagman?

DinkyDinosaur · 05-10-2017 2:38pm

And now the likes of Alex Jones who is a shill in this long con is saying that ANTIFA (which means anti- fascist) is going to start a civil war.

https://www.infowars.com/antifa-plans-civil-war-to-overthrow-the-government/

http://www.wnd.com/2017/10/antifa-mass-uprising-to-remove-fascist-trump/

http://www.pacificpundit.com/2017/08/28/antifa-terrorists-planning-civil-war-and-overturn-government-on-nov-4/

AntiFa terrorists planning ‘Civil War’ and ‘overturn’ government on Nov 4

So there's your civil war right there. It was never about confiscating guns. They want people to shoot each other.

Divide and conquer.

King Mob · 05-10-2017 2:44pm

DinkyDinosaur wrote: »

look i feel bad for some of you on this website. so i'll let you in on a little secret. if you live in las vegas or henderson stay inside tomorrow. don't go anywhere where there are large groups of people. also if you see three blacks vans parked next to each other immediately leave the area. you're welcome
-john

It's funny how no one was able to point out this "prediction" before the event it supposedly predicted.

But it's hard to pick them out from the hundreds of such predictions that get spit out every day all around the internet and mention pretty much every single city all the time.

You can't just count the hits. Broken clocks are right twice a day and all of that.

Note however how this supposed prophet offers exactly zero in the way of verifiable details or information that would indicate that he actually any useful knowledge. (Never mind where he got said knowledge.)
Also note how he was wrong, yet now he's being held up as being right.
First he claims it would be Las Vegas OR Henderson. Then he says that it will happen the day after his post. Then presumably, after nothing happened that day he changes tack and just says something vague about Vegas.

He doesn't even say it's going to be an attack the second time. Just that the Shadowy They have Vegas in mind.

Again, there are tons and tons of these claims everywhere, this forum included. That, coupled with lowering standards to the point where someone can offer no details and be off the predicted day by weeks can still be right, it means that it's super easy to find such predictions at random.

Had this insider provided exact details, number of shooters, location, time, date etc... then maybe there would be something.

Otherwise. Nothing really interesting here.

Overheal · 05-10-2017 2:45pm

pilly wrote: »

Jesus H Christ. :mad:

Is there a problem?

DinkyDinosaur · 05-10-2017 2:45pm

Edit- Video doesn't seem to be playing. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHhb3VNWM10&has_verified=1
This clearly shows there is more than one shooter.

People don't claim there is a conspiracy for no reason or because they are idiots. They question what is going on because things don't add up.

Don't ever let anyone ridicule you for thinking 2+2=4 and try to convince you that 2+2=7 and that there is nothing strange going on.

There is certainly something strange going on. Things don't add up.

Las Vegas Shooting

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