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Good news for tenants in budget 2018

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    #32
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,293 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Sort out the ridiculously pro-tenant legislative mess we're in.

    What keeps you in the business?


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    #33
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Make a special subclass of income tax?


    If that what it takes to keep people in the market, that's what they'll have to do. As I've said before you can produce more middle class earners with very little problem. They're not expected to take the risk of working for two years unpaid, they're also easily replaced. We've seen now that landlords aren't an endless resource.


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    #34
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What keeps you in the business?

    Negative equity by the sound of things


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    #35
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What keeps you in the business?


    Equity or lack there of at the moment. However if the legislation were to change I'd keep it on as an investment even if rents were to reduce by 50% (a sensible level). Instead, I'll sell when the time is right, pay down the mortgage and start properly paying into a pension.


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    #36
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    handlemaster wrote: »
    If you understood the issue you wouldnt be saying that

    If I owned five houses and was getting two grand a month for each of them is it?


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    #37
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Variable rates have never been 1 percent & you know it.
    Please provide a link where the cso shows 1 percent. Or is it just in your imagination?

    Where have i said anything about variable rates? I said trackers were the lowest point if you look at mortgage interest rates on a historical scale.

    That's the cheapest it's ever been. Mortgage products are more expensive now.


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    #38
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    If I owned five houses and was getting two grand a month for each of them is it?


    The vast majority of LL's own two or less properties, mortgaged. The profit is tied up in equity. The risks invoved is that if the tenants stops paying it can bust the LL from a cash-flow point of view.


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    #39
    KevinCavan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 612 ✭✭✭KevinCavan


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Itd be nice to get a fraction of the protection that rogue tenants enjoy.

    Hard to see too many rogue tenants now with letting agencies looking for work references, previous landlords references and asking what a couple’s combined monthly salary is. Also factor in that you could have seven or eight couples/ sets of tenants to chose from on any open visit to a rental property.


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    #40
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Grumpypants wrote:
    Where have i said anything about variable rates? I said trackers were the lowest point if you look at mortgage interest rates on a historical scale.

    No country in the world uses tracker rates to measure what the average interest rate is. No country in the world uses special packages or deals to work out average interest rates.

    Grumpypants wrote:
    That's the cheapest it's ever been. Mortgage products are more expensive now.

    Trackers are still the same rate. They haven't increased. This is why the banks are losing money on trackers. They can't put them up. Some trackers are actually only a half percent. Historically low as I have said several times now.


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    #41
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Hard to see too many rogue tenants now with letting agencies looking for work references, previous landlords references and asking what a couple’s combined monthly salary is. Also factor in that you could have seven or eight couples/ sets of tenants to chose from on any open visit to a rental property.


    Work referecnce/salary cert - no issues why would an employer not give one
    LL reference - not worth the paper it's written on
    Bank statements - worth it as you can cross reference rent actually being paid.
    Gut instinct - worth it weight in gold.


    Even after all that it's perfectrly possible for tenants to just decide they're not paying.


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    #42
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote:
    Work referecnce/salary cert - no issues why would an employer not give one LL reference - not worth the paper it's written on Bank statements - worth it as you can cross reference rent actually being paid. Gut instinct - worth it weight in gold.

    Samuel T. Cogley wrote:
    Even after all that it's perfectrly possible for tenants to just decide they're not paying.


    Totally agree.

    Landlords should be getting at least two months deposit now and for any landlords not charging market rates at least three months deposit. It's still not bullet proof but at least you are better protected


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    #43
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,768 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    No country in the world uses tracker rates to measure what the average interest rate is. No country in the world uses special packages or deals to work out average interest rates.




    Trackers are still the same rate. They haven't increased. This is why the banks are losing money on trackers. They can't put them up. Some trackers are actually only a half percent. Historically low as I have said several times now.

    You can't get a mortgage today that is cheaper than when trackers were on offer. Therefore today is not the historically lowest point. The trackers were. So you were wrong just move on.


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    #44
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    If it brings more rentals it may do some good.

    It won’t. The 100pc interest was already being phased in anyway. They have just pushed it forward 2 years. The rest of the deals are meh and won’t increase the rental stock. Anyone that was considering getting out of the market will still move out of it. What they are offering is terrible and it was easy to offer the 100pc. It’s false title as well.

    They should have allowed LPT as an expendable item. They already said in principle it should be but still don’t allow it after several years


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    #45
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    lawred2 wrote: »
    FG in full on giveaway mode

    How is this a give away budget. Ll have got nothing in over 5 years and the title is false as well


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    #46
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    They should use the money funding this to build more houses/apartments instead.

    So what. Build more social housing yet at the same time ll are getting out of the market. They may balance themselves out or more than likely have a deficit with rental supply


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    #47
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Terrible worry that landlords will leave the market, with rents at an all time high. Thank God the landlords will have an extra few Bob now.

    If the market is so fruitful, why do you think ll are leaving the market?


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    #48
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Should be no problem with supply then.

    People will pile into such an attractive no lose scenario.


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    #49
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    lawred2 wrote: »
    The ones enjoying the highest rents in the history of the state?

    What would you like to do for them?

    How about allow LPT as an expense.
    How about flat rate fees for phone bills and petrol?


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    #50
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Grumpypants wrote:
    You can't get a mortgage today that is cheaper than when trackers were on offer. Therefore today is not the historically lowest point. The trackers were. So you were wrong just move on.


    You really don't understand interest rates at all do you?

    Tracker mortgages weren't interest rates. They were a product. A very bad one as it turns out so the product has been withdrawn from the market. The trackers still in existence are still the same rate. They haven't been increased. Its not that the tracker rate increased. Its that the product has been withdrawn. The trackers still running are costing non tracker mortgages at least an extra one percent. The reason Irish interest rates are higher than the rest of the EU, though still historically low, is because everyone on a variable rate is subsidising trackers.

    Just because you feel interest rates aren't historically low doesn't make it so. Fortunately we rely on the CSO for our statistics and not Joe Soap Grumpypants.


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    #51
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Sleeper12 wrote:
    The trackers still running are costing non tracker mortgages at least an extra one percent.

    Have you got a source for that. Last time I checked a couple of years ago, BoI had a cost of funding less than their outstanding trackers. I'd say it's even lower now.


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    #52
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    dubrov wrote:
    Have you got a source for that. Last time I checked a couple of years ago, BoI had a cost of funding less than their outstanding trackers. I'd say it's even lower now.

    A couple of years ago, possibly around the same time that you checked, they dumped thousands of trackers but since then they have been made to take them back & compensate as have all of the lending institutions. Non tracker mortgages will be paying for the tracker mistake for years to come.


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    #53
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,293 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Fol20 wrote: »
    How about allow LPT as an expense.
    How about flat rate fees for phone bills and petrol?

    Whose phone bills?

    What has petrol got to do with the cost of maintaining a property?

    As for the lpt, arguments could be made either way I suppose.

    But it's supposed to be an asset tax so it kinda defeats the purpose if landlords could expense it. It's not a cost of maintaining a rental property. It's a charge on asset accumulation.


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    #54
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Hard to see too many rogue tenants now with letting agencies looking for work references, previous landlords references and asking what a couple’s combined monthly salary is. Also factor in that you could have seven or eight couples/ sets of tenants to chose from on any open visit to a rental property.

    Said some chap who probably has never had the pleasure of dealing with someone who has wrecked his gaff, put through months of no rent, having to pursue it through a toothless organisation like the PRTB only to discover that any financial decision when finally made has no basis in reality and that the landlord is left with ALL the bills.

    Nevermind that even if you did think you did find a decent tenant who will not treat your property like a animal, that in the event that their circumstances change you could be forced to accept a social housing payment under equality laws and are then at the mercy of the tenant because if they stop paying the Council under HAP, then the council stop paying you and you are left alone again to sort it out with the afore mentioned PRTB who even if they find in your favour, the award means nothing. That is not a fast track process. I am sure the bank wont miss the mortgage payments.

    Not a clue.


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    #55
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Grumpypants wrote:
    You can't get a mortgage today that is cheaper than when trackers were on offer. Therefore today is not the historically lowest point. The trackers were. So you were wrong just move on.


    Your local Filling station is selling petrol 15 cent cheaper than any other station in the country. The filling station goes bust. You will have to pay more for petrol now but that doesn't mean that petrol has gone up in price.


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    #56
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    KevinCavan wrote: »
    Terrible worry that landlords will leave the market, with rents at an all time high. Thank God the landlords will have an extra few Bob now.

    Hi rent doesn't mean a whole lot when the scrotes decide to trash your property and/or not pay rent. The law is on their side. It will take a long time for landlords to remove these thieving scum, that's exactly what it is, theft. Do you think that would be acceptable in any other form of business? Receiving a service for free, is that normal in your opinion?
    KevinCavan wrote: »
    If I owned five houses and was getting two grand a month for each of them is it?

    You really are living on another planet. How many landlords do you think have 5 houses at 2K a piece? Dream on would you? lol...

    lawred2 wrote: »
    The ones enjoying the highest rents in the history of the state?

    What would you like to do for them?

    They could be the highest rents in the history of forever, but if it's not being paid, it's worthless.

    There's not even nearly enough support for landlords.


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    #57
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭The Student


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Whose phone bills?

    What has petrol got to do with the cost of maintaining a property?

    As for the lpt, arguments could be made either way I suppose.

    But it's supposed to be an asset tax so it kinda defeats the purpose if landlords could expense it. It's not a cost of maintaining a rental property. It's a charge on asset accumulation.

    Ever paid a call out charge for a plumber before he will even look at the problem. He is paid for his time even if he does not fix the problem. So a landlord should receive payment for his time.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ruben Wooden Valve wrote: »
    There's not even nearly enough support for landlords.

    Why does there need to be 'support' for landlords? It's a business, if you don't like it sell up and jog on.

    Landlords don't build property, and the idea that they need tax breaks so they can outbid actual productive members of society who just want to own a house is so arse-about-tit it would be funny if FG didn't appear to believe it.

    This idea that there is some huge 'demand' for rental property is a myth. Almost all the demand consists of people who would prefer to own a property. Private rental from the gombeen-class landlord that Ireland appears to specialise in is nobody's idea of fun, trust me. It's the last resort for people who have no other choice.


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    #59
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,293 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The Student wrote: »
    Ever paid a call out charge for a plumber before he will even look at the problem. He is paid for his time even if he does not fix the problem. So a landlord should receive payment for his time.

    Sorry.. what?


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    #60
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,917 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    The Student wrote:
    Ever paid a call out charge for a plumber before he will even look at the problem. He is paid for his time even if he does not fix the problem. So a landlord should receive payment for his time.


    This isn't really true at all. A call out fee only applies if you choose not to engage the plumber. A plumber goes to a job to repair or replace. He gives you a price. If you accept then he does the job without a separate call out fee. If you decide that he's too expensive then he charges you a call out fee because you have wasted his time.


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    #61
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why does there need to be 'support' for landlords? It's a business, if you don't like it sell up and jog on.

    Landlords don't build property, and the idea that they need tax breaks so they can outbid actual productive members of society who just want to own a house is so arse-about-tit it would be funny if FG didn't appear to believe it.

    This idea that there is some huge 'demand' for rental property is a myth. Almost all the demand consists of people who would prefer to own a property. Private rental from the gombeen-class landlord that Ireland appears to specialise in is nobody's idea of fun, trust me. It's the last resort for people who have no other choice.


    None of that makes any sense, whatsoever.


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