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57977 Three Ireland- Dangerous to your bank account

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  • 01-02-2020 12:00am
    #1
    GusGus
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭


    I know there are old threads on this one . I pay my bill by DD to three . On jan 5 I allegedly received 5 texts from this number and three have charged me €16. I never received or signed up for anything .

    Three have advised I send STOP to the number and this may be wise but it also gives this company my number . They also suggest that I contact the company to get a refund again give this absolutely dodgy company my details . How can they refund me ? I pay three and am certainly nit giving them my details .

    Three hide behind Com Reg . They act as agents fir these companies and are actively participating in the scam. How much do they get out of this ? Why don’t Three give you the option to block this when you start a contract ? Why can’t you do it online ?

    Three have been appalling ! Unhelpful and using the same copy and paste replies .

    I have had no option but to block my DD as I can’t trust three . Sad days and a very poor company .

    Any suggestions on what I should do next ?


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    #2
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭daheff


    OmegaGene wrote: »
    Pay your bill to three and sign up to gomo for €12.99 all calls texts and 80gb of data
    These fees you have incurred are likely due to clicking on a link on a certain type of website, three are correct in their advice of sending stop to them, you say they will have your number but they already have it lol

    how would signing up to GOMO stop this type of scam?

    GOMO charge for these types of activity too.


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    #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    OmegaGene wrote: »
    Gomo is cheaper than three

    That has zero impact on the fees charged by PRS operators


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    #4
    Bikerman2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    You can now contact your operator and be put on a premium bar list.


    This stops receipt and sending of all premium texts.


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    #5
    the boss of me
    Registered Users Posts: 706 ✭✭✭the boss of me


    This is why I'll never have another bill phone.. there are some great payg deals out there.


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    #6
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    the boss of me wrote: »
    This is why I'll never have another bill phone.. there are some great payg deals out there.

    having a payg phone wouldn't help. you would just end up losing all of your credit.


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    #7
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Its mobile apps. And its drive by cross scripting stuff that Comreg have been complicit in allowing continue because there is a complaint route.


    Make a complaint to Comreg. Opt out of Premium SMS services which should be the default (but isnt). There is another thread on this them already.


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    #8
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    not the fault of three - comreg is the place to go and complain about the practices of the company running the scam.


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    #9
    fivesixtwo
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭fivesixtwo


    All of the Telcos here that faciitate the sending of Premium or scam texts to phones have a supply agreement with these rip off merchants.

    The neworks activley market their platforms to these guys on a profit sharing agreement, 50/50, 60/40.

    Their wholesale divisions deal with this end of the market and are target and revenue driven,


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    #10
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    fivesixtwo wrote: »
    All of the Telcos here that faciitate the sending of Premium or scam texts to phones have a supply agreement with these rip off merchants.

    The neworks activley market their platforms to these guys on a profit sharing agreement, 50/50, 60/40.

    Their wholesale divisions deal with this end of the market and are target and revenue driven,

    Totally incorrect.

    Its like blaming a bank because you took money from an atm machine and someone nicked your wallet
    All premium rate numbers are regulated by Comreg. Once they have a license, the service providers cannot refuse to allow their service.

    There is one place and one place only for complaints about 57977 and that's comreg who gave them authorisation
    https://www.comreg.ie/premium-rate/about-premium-rate-services/what-are-premium-rate-services/

    The only problem is comreg make it effin difficult to complain as you have to deal with these scum first
    57977 is TXTNATION LTD tel- 01 903 8309 email help@pfi.me

    They opeate dozens of scam premium texts including the "win voucher" scam texts. https://servicechecker.comreg.ie/Find/Index?q=57977

    Comreg should be ashamed of allowing these scum a license


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    #11
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    How to deal with TxtNatation scam texts.

    1 - Email help@pfi.me -
    request that your number not to be subscribed to any of their services (they have dozens)
    request a refund of all charges

    2 - Take a screenshot of the messages and make a formal complaint to comreg regarding their mode of operation. The more complaints Comreg get, the more likely they will do something



    Only if comreg get a deluge of complaints about this service will they start doing something.

    Txtnation are a UK company with a turnover in excess of £11m

    If you complain, they will give an immediate refund as they do not want complaints to regulatory authorities, so if people really want to stop this scam, complain, complain and complain again to comreg.


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    #12
    Johnny Sausage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Johnny Sausage


    just got stung with these today ,

    complaint going to comreg as i type


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    #13
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Johnny Sausage wrote: »
    just got stung with these today ,

    complaint going to comreg as i type

    They don't really care.

    more info.

    Txt Nation Ltd provides the platform and they get the licence or permission from Comreg.

    They in turn rent their platform to third party operators such as red27 who blatantly add people without permission and blatantly flout the regulation.

    When you send an email to them, they will respond to you within a couple of hours claiming you clicked on a link and agreed to the terms but "as an act of goodwill" they will refund you.

    I've seen the response to two others aside from the response they gave me and the responses are IDENTICAL except for your name - copy and paste the same reponse - "you clicked, we'll give you goodwill refund"

    BULLSH1T

    as for Comreg - they said if you don't get a refund within 10 days, they will investigate, but if you do get a refund, they don't give s sh1t.

    So Txt Nation knowingly allow a scam like red27 operate on their platform and effectively deduct money from people without authorisation and conreg don't care.


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    #14
    Johnny Sausage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Johnny Sausage


    Yeah it was that red 27 crowd


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    #15
    Johnny Sausage
    Closed Accounts Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Johnny Sausage


    They've emailed me back saying that they will refund 7.50,

    i said no, i didnt sign up

    they said i signed up on my handset, an iphone (lie, i dont have one) on 12/02/2020 (another lie, my phone was off all day in a drawer in work locked) and offered 15e

    they are pure scumbags


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    #16
    Ten Pin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    they said i signed up on my handset, an iphone (lie, i dont have one) on 12/02/2020 (another lie, my phone was off all day in a drawer in work locked) and offered 15e

    That seems to be their standard excuse...

    https://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112304349&postcount=40

    Comreg rules state that they need an AGREE SMS from the phone number to validate a subscription charge. AFAIK, IP sign up is not part of the rules.


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    #17
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Comreg claim that IP only sign up is "informed consent". Which is patently nonsense


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    #18
    Ten Pin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    There is no mention of IP sign up in the Comreg code of practice
    (Comreg 14/45 https://www.comreg.ie/publication/code-of-practice-a-premium-rate-services.)

    It specifically states that an AGREE SMS is required (from pages 22/23 of the code).

    If Comreg don't enforce their own code of practice, why would the licensee's bother....

    Unless there's an updated code of practice but the one above is the latest version on their website.


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    #19
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Johnny Sausage wrote: »
    They've emailed me back saying that they will refund 7.50,

    i said no, i didnt sign up

    they said i signed up on my handset, an iphone (lie, i dont have one) on 12/02/2020 (another lie, my phone was off all day in a drawer in work locked) and offered 15e

    they are pure scumbags

    That's their mode of operating.

    Refund the few that notice, make money from the thousands that don't.

    Comreg will not do anything as they can't be bothered.


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    #20
    steele3388
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭steele3388


    Just to let you know my experience. You can be signed up by anyone, there is a website you or anyone can go to and enter a phone number. Once you do this they send out a message stating that you can text back stop if you do not want to be signed up. I thought it was a scam number and ignored it.

    There is no onus on the part of the company to verify that it is you who has signed up for this service. And Three do not seem to care about it.

    I had to keep hassling the company red27mobile it was for me, and keep insisting that I did not sign up. I asked for the records for where and when I signed up. They send me some output from their database that had the ip address I signed up from, this was not near me and I stated this. The other information meant nothing without knowing what the codes meant and they would not share that with me.

    I just had to keep hassling them and threatening to go to the comReg and they eventually refunded me.


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    #21
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    steele3388 wrote: »
    And Three do not seem to care about it.
    Its nothing to do with three - if comreg have given the licence Three must allow for the service to be provided.

    There are only 3 parties that are to blame here

    Red27
    Txt Nation
    Comreg


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    #22
    lobbylad
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭lobbylad


    Just to chip in with my experience, bought 2 x GOMO SIMs for my kids for a new phone for Christmas.

    On Jan bill, there was an extra €30 on one of the SIMs for premium services from Quizzam and Mindquiz. Checked the SMS on the phone and all there were was a message stating that €10 and €20 would be taken, with no other messages.

    Asked my daughter about it and she didn't remember agreeing to anything.

    When I emailed the support emails for above, they both replied (with the same email!) saying that the user had clicked on an online advert on the phone to activate the charges.

    So I asked them to provide evidence of the "AGREE" SMS that they should have. They could not, but stated that the user must have replied.

    But on the next line they offered a full refund of all charges!

    I have made a complaint to Comreg about this. I was lucky to spot the charges but many others might not, they should not be allowed operate in Ireland, they are nothing but a scam.


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    #23
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    lobbylad wrote: »
    Just to chip in with my experience, bought 2 x GOMO SIMs for my kids for a new phone for Christmas.

    you can contact gomo (or any operator) and put a block on all premium services.

    If kids have phones, that's the best solution and avoids nasty shocks as some of these scams are €20 a week!


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    #24
    lobbylad
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭lobbylad


    silver2020 wrote: »
    you can contact gomo (or any operator) and put a block on all premium services.

    If kids have phones, that's the best solution and avoids nasty shocks as some of these scams are €20 a week!

    Already done, couldn't do it through the "My GOMO" site, as the options were greyed out, but did it via Live Chat on the site.


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    #25
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Its nothing to do with three - if comreg have given the licence Three must allow for the service to be provided.

    There are only 3 parties that are to blame here

    Red27
    Txt Nation
    Comreg


    Of course its also a "Three" problem. Do you not think they are a beneficiary in all of this ?


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    #26
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Johnny Sausage wrote: »
    They've emailed me back saying that they will refund 7.50,

    i said no, i didnt sign up

    they said i signed up on my handset, an iphone (lie, i dont have one) on 12/02/2020 (another lie, my phone was off all day in a drawer in work locked) and offered 15e

    they are pure scumbags


    This is also widespread in the UK. So much so that some guy started up a thread on the moneysavingexpert forum (happy reading) and has had thousands refunded for individuals by providing a template on how to deal with them. Effectively, its the threat of court, and if they persist, they pay the court costs and settle in full because they don't want it highlighted.

    I'll see can I find it and someone might be able to tell you the relevance in Ireland.

    I gather its via the UK's equivalent of our Small Claims Court. The first step is sending a "letter before action", warning of your intention to enforce your claim through the county court, if necessary. If they don't pay up at that stage, you pay the fee to the Small Claims Court to start a claim, the cost of which can be recouped with to your claim. They will have to prove how they obtained your consent if they go to court. They won't show and will settle well before that.


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    #27
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    STB. wrote: »
    Of course its also a "Three" problem. Do you not think they are a beneficiary in all of this ?

    They are obligated to accept and apply the charges. They have no choice. Same for Eir, gomo & Vodafone.

    Only people who can change it is Comreg.


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    #28
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    STB. wrote: »
    This is also widespread in the UK. So much so that some guy started up a thread on the moneysavingexpert forum (happy reading) and has had thousands refunded for individuals by providing a template on how to deal with them. Effectively, its the threat of court, and if they persist, they pay the court costs and settle in full because they don't want it highlighted.

    I'll see can I find it and someone might be able to tell you the relevance in Ireland.

    I gather its via the UK's equivalent of our Small Claims Court. The first step is sending a "letter before action", warning of your intention to enforce your claim through the county court, if necessary. If they don't pay up at that stage, you pay the fee to the Small Claims Court to start a claim, the cost of which can be recouped with to your claim. They will have to prove how they obtained your consent if they go to court. They won't show and will settle well before that.

    Unfortunately, you can't include the small claims court fees in your claim here, so if you do go that route, you're losing €25 from your refund.


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    #29
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,374 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    lobbylad wrote: »
    Just to chip in with my experience, bought 2 x GOMO SIMs for my kids for a new phone for Christmas.

    On Jan bill, there was an extra €30 on one of the SIMs for premium services from Quizzam and Mindquiz. Checked the SMS on the phone and all there were was a message stating that €10 and €20 would be taken, with no other messages.

    Asked my daughter about it and she didn't remember agreeing to anything.

    When I emailed the support emails for above, they both replied (with the same email!) saying that the user had clicked on an online advert on the phone to activate the charges.

    So I asked them to provide evidence of the "AGREE" SMS that they should have. They could not, but stated that the user must have replied.

    But on the next line they offered a full refund of all charges!

    I have made a complaint to Comreg about this. I was lucky to spot the charges but many others might not, they should not be allowed operate in Ireland, they are nothing but a scam.

    When you say kids, I'm assuming you mean under 18?

    What is the law on underage people being signed up to these? Is it legal?

    The ones your kids were signed up to seem to be 18+ services, so mentioning that would maybe have solved that too.


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    #30
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,775 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    My daughter clicked on one of these links. Obviously I only spotted it when I got a massive bill from GoMo

    Emailed that sewer company txtnation, insisting I get every last cent back. Threatening with comreg and the small claims court. About 5 emails later (with increasing "offers" of stopping the service, paying me back €5, paying me back €10, etc.), I eventually get an email stating I will get a full refund, and to give them my IBAN. A couple of days later the full refund was in my bank account

    If everybody does this, they will have zero revenue and they will stop their "service". Unfortunately, many people just pay up. Or don't even notice the charges :rolleyes:


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    #31
    seagull
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭seagull


    unkel wrote: »
    Emailed that sewer company txtnation,

    I take offense to your description of this company. Sewers serve a useful purpose, and remove unpleasant stuff from our lives. These text companies serve no useful purpose, and are more toxic than anything you will find in a sewer.


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