EV insurance prices

BoatMad · 28-05-2017 6:02pm

goz83 wrote: »

I don't agree with your view on the subject though. I build websites and spend quite a bit of time online. About 90% of websites use cookies and many of them don't require the user to manually click to accept cookies (unless you wan't to get rid of the banner). Once the person continues to use the website, they have agreed to opt-in.

I am putting the same logic to the use of the car. The vehicle owner would be the one who configures the settings and controls the password. The password could be shared with anyone he/she wishes and it could even be disabled and would enable any driver to disable the telemetry.

Product managers are often ex sales people and pretend to know it all, rather than just admitting they're not sure about something. So, I wouldn't hold too much faith in what a product manager said about an EU law.

edited to add: Think about using a GPS, or a phone. Your data can be collected and you are not manually opting into that. You aren't asked to opt in if you borrow someones phone to send a whats app message and a car thief isn't opting in to share his/her location when he/she steals a car with a vehicle tracker and cam installed.

I should point out that cookies in EU law are a subset of data protection.

Think about using a GPS, or a phone. Your data can be collected and you are not manually opting into that

not legally it cant. phone information assent is contained in the contract you signed and is specific to you the contract holder. It should be pointed out that certain aspects of phone communication are exempt from data protection ( security force requests etc )

The situation remains and pertains too any sort of marketing data ( I build web sites too )

if I collect personal data, I cannot use that for other purposes unless you agree.

If I collect additional data , I MUST ask your permission again. I cannot use the previous permission

You can chose to opt-out and there is no need to ask you again , if you opt-in , as I said I can only use the data that was collected at that time for the purposes outlined in the opt-in.

Any new data = another permission request

You aren't asked to opt in if you borrow someones phone to send a whats app message and a car thief isn't opting in to share his/her location when he/she steals a car with a vehicle tracker and cam installed.

classic straw man argument here

goz83 · 28-05-2017 6:25pm

BoatMad wrote: »

I should point out that cookies in EU law are a subset of data protection.

not legally it cant. phone information assent is contained in the contract you signed and is specific to you the contract holder. It should be pointed out that certain aspects of phone communication are exempt from data protection ( security force requests etc )

The situation remains and pertains too any sort of marketing data ( I build web sites too )

if I collect personal data, I cannot use that for other purposes unless you agree.

If I collect additional data , I MUST ask your permission again. I cannot use the previous permission

You can chose to opt-out and there is no need to ask you again , if you opt-in , as I said I can only use the data that was collected at that time for the purposes outlined in the opt-in.

Any new data = another permission request

classic straw man argument here

Don't be giving that straw man rubbish. My points are valid and I don't appreciate them being dismissed as straw man comments. Leave that to some of the water protesters please.

People often use devices of their friends and family and a car too is often used by a number of people.

I still say that a person, once warned, is opting in when they continue to use something. You might see it as nonsense that the opt-out would be to not use the car, but that's just an opinion and you're entitled to it.

BoatMad · 28-05-2017 7:05pm

EU Law is clear

Consent as a legal basis for processing personal data must be free, informed and speci c.
• Consent must have been given unambiguously. Consent may either be given explicitly or implied by acting in a way which leaves no doubt that the data subject agrees to the processing of his or her data.
• Processing sensitive data on the basis of consent requires explicit consent.
• Consent can be withdrawn at any time.

EU law sets out three elements for consent to be valid, which aim to guarantee that data subjects truly meant to agree to the use of their data:
• the data subject must have been under no pressure when consenting;
• the data subject must have been duly informed about the object and conse- quences of consenting; and
• the scope of consent must be reasonably concrete.

To be valid, consent must also be specific. This goes hand in hand with the qual- ity of information given about the object of consent. In this context, the reasonable expectations of an average data subject will be relevant. The data subject must be asked again for consent if processing operations are to be added or changed in a way which could not reasonably have been foreseen when the initial consent was given.

( my underlining )
source : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwjw8eChk5PUAhUrI8AKHRgCCp8QFghbMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffra.europa.eu%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Ffra-2014-handbook-data-protection-law-2nd-ed_en.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFCbgoO-SnRTL7nLS0oMX6yTLww3A&sig2=e_JMYEXkKLQswGfE5ak9ag

The key issue here is " content must be specific ". This requires the driver ( whose information is being collected ,not the owner) must give the consent and they must give that consent anytime additional processing of the data occurs

There is no way you could argue that the owner could lock in consent with the proviso that a driver could not then drive the car if they didnt agree.

(a) Consent or dissent is not freely given , the car is being used to force acceptance ( because it would be regarded as necessary for the driver to drive it)

(B) Consent isnt specific, The owner is not the driver and the information being transferred is about the driver not the owner

(C) The data subject , is clearly the driver , Hence the owner CANNOT take a decision on behalf of the driver

isnottheword · 28-05-2017 7:34pm

goz83 wrote: »

Don't be giving that straw man rubbish..... Leave that to some of the water protesters please.

And you can kindly leave water protesters out of it. It's a cheap shot to take - knowing that you can't be engaged on the subject - given that you're way off topic. There's far more complexity in that saga in it's entirety (and what it revealed about this rogue state) than can be boiled down to 'straw man rubbish'.

punisher5112 · 28-05-2017 8:22pm

I'm out.....

goz83 · 29-05-2017 2:02am

BoatMad wrote: »

The key issue here is " content must be specific ". This requires the driver ( whose information is being collected ,not the owner) must give the consent and they must give that consent anytime additional processing of the data occurs

There is no way you could argue that the owner could lock in consent with the proviso that a driver could not then drive the car if they didnt agree.

(a) Consent or dissent is not freely given , the car is being used to force acceptance ( because it would be regarded as necessary for the driver to drive it)

(B) Consent isnt specific, The owner is not the driver and the information being transferred is about the driver not the owner

(C) The data subject , is clearly the driver , Hence the owner CANNOT take a decision on behalf of the driver

Actually, I am suggesting that The owner controls the access to the menu and can choose to (a) Share the login details with chosen drivers. (b) Disable the password and allow anyone open access to accept/decline data request. (c) Refuse or be unable to give the password to allow the data request to be declined. In the event of C, the driver would be consenting by choosing to use the vehicle. Nobody is forcing the driver to use the car.

The way you describe it....it would be illegal to track a stolen Leaf with the onboard gps if the thief selected decline after starting the car.

Earlier today, I visited a tyre website. I did not click to accept cookies and I did a search for tyres. When I exited the website, I found the same company had ads on the boards.ie pages I am visiting. Its not the first time thats happened.

isnottheword wrote: »

And you can kindly leave water protesters out of it. It's a cheap shot to take - knowing that you can't be engaged on the subject - given that you're way off topic. There's far more complexity in that saga in it's entirety (and what it revealed about this rogue state) than can be boiled down to 'straw man rubbish'.

Look at what I clearly said. I will highlight the relevant word.

goz83 wrote: »

Don't be giving that straw man rubbish. My points are valid and I don't appreciate them being dismissed as straw man comments. Leave that to some of the water protesters please.

I have nothing against the vast majority of the water protesters, but some of them were the freeman type with strawman arguments which diluted the protests imo.

NIMAN · 27-06-2017 11:09am

Anyone know what's the difference in premiums in Ireland between the Tekna v Acenta models?

KCross · 27-06-2017 12:22pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone know what's the difference in premiums in Ireland between the Tekna v Acenta models?

Cant see why there would be any significant difference. Its the same 80kW powered motor in both. The only difference would be the value of the car for comprehensive and the difference there should be minuscule to the insurance premium.

NIMAN · 27-06-2017 12:30pm

Tekna may be more attractive to thieves?

KCross · 27-06-2017 12:34pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Tekna may be more attractive to thieves?

I doubt it. I suppose all you can do is try out the online quotes for both models and see what you get.

reboot · 27-06-2017 12:41pm

I pointed out to my broker, that I was already covered for breakdown cover with the PCP, and he refunded around €30, you couldn't watch , cheeky monkey.

Moreilly · 28-09-2017 11:58am

Lads, just got my renewal quote for the Ioniq, €690 with aviva as opposed to around €380 last year with my ice car, wife has a policy with aviva as well so usual discounts applied ect.., was not expecting this, anybody in the same boat? p.s. what value did you give for the car?

peposhi · 28-09-2017 12:39pm

Moreilly wrote: »

Lads, just got my renewal quote for the Ioniq, €690 with aviva as opposed to around €380 last year with my ice car, wife has a policy with aviva as well so usual discounts applied ect.., was not expecting this, anybody in the same boat? p.s. what value did you give for the car?

We are with Aviva for the last 11 years. 2 cars, house, health insurance policies (the last one did move in April to Irish Life since they took over). For the last 6 years I have at least one huge argument with them over the phone and every time they did decrease the premium.
Do not let them get away with it. This year I was to get an increase of roughly €150 between the two cars, ended up paying a total of €70 less my previous year’s.

peposhi · 28-09-2017 12:41pm

Not to mention that we got €40 refund on switching to an EV back in March 2015

n97 mini · 28-09-2017 1:23pm

Shop around. I do every year. Leaf insurance dropped from 40 euro this year.

unkel · 28-09-2017 1:26pm

peposhi wrote: »

Not to mention that we got €40 refund on switching to an EV back in March 2015

+1

We went from a worthless banger to a brand new Ioniq and the insurance dropped by over €100 for the remaining 10 months or so

Moreilly wrote: »

p.s. what value did you give for the car?

Not really that relevant. In case the car is a write-off, most policies will get you a brand new replacement car. In the first year anyway.

oinkely · 28-09-2017 3:25pm

Zurich were the cheapest for me an my wife's leafs at around €400 each.

Stokolan · 28-09-2017 8:46pm

Rather then go with the renewal on aviva. Go to their website and get a new quote on the same vehicle. I did it with the Wives policy and it came down by €100

30-09-2017 6:53am

Mine went down from 700 to 500 with Allianz.

pwurple · 30-09-2017 7:22am

Nothing to do with EV there. i have been driving EV three years... the quote doubled this year with zurich for some unknown reason to around 700. Aviva quoted me over 1000. Madness.

I switched to itsforwomen.ie , back down to my 380.

BoatMad · 30-09-2017 11:47am

I fond there no effective reduction simply because its an EV

best deal I found was through AA , reduced my insurance by 20 quid

you'll find the deals move all over the place, its more like a spot market

zulutango · 02-10-2017 2:33pm

The rise of EV's seems to be the precursor to the introduction of autonomous vehicles. I wonder how the insurance industry will make money when it's computers driving cars as opposed to humans.

jeremy_g · 03-10-2017 12:06pm

zulutango wrote: »

The rise of EV's seems to be the precursor to the introduction of autonomous vehicles. I wonder how the insurance industry will make money when it's computers driving cars as opposed to humans.

they won't, they'll become irrelevant and disapear as they deserve to

BoatMad · 04-10-2017 12:32am

zulutango wrote: »

The rise of EV's seems to be the precursor to the introduction of autonomous vehicles. I wonder how the insurance industry will make money when it's computers driving cars as opposed to humans.

I suspect you the owner will be entirely responsible for some considerable time to come and hence will continue to require insurance

TBi · 04-10-2017 8:39am

In the UK (i think, i'll have to find the article) the insurance companies are arguing that autonomous vehicles need separate insurance, so you need to insure the car twice. Once for the person driving, second time for the 'robot' driving. Stupid!

Possibly i misinterpreted the original article and i can't find it now.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/07/uk-driverless-car-insurance-policy-adrian-flux

https://www.engadget.com/2017/02/23/uk-government-vehicle-technology-aviation-bill/

Shefwedfan · 04-10-2017 10:12am

Rule is never to accept first offer.

Get all details correct(value of car etc)

Then take a couple of hours off. Get on the phone and start ringing. Get the best deal and then ring back your insurance company if you want to stay and ask them to beat

KCross · 04-10-2017 12:11pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rule is never to accept first offer.

Get all details correct(value of car etc)

Then take a couple of hours off. Get on the phone and start ringing. Get the best deal and then ring back your insurance company if you want to stay and ask them to beat

^^ This.

This is how they make their money. Same as utility bills as well. They hope/depend on lazy people not pricing around and just paying whatever is in the renewal because thats the easy thing to do.

Its an absolute PITA to enter the same details in all their systems each year (twice if you have 2 cars!) but if you don't you can't complain about getting a bad renewal.

Shefwedfan · 04-10-2017 1:36pm

KCross wrote: »

^^ This.

This is how they make their money. Same as utility bills as well. They hope/depend on lazy people not pricing around and just paying whatever is in the renewal because thats the easy thing to do.

Its an absolute PITA to enter the same details in all their systems each year (twice if you have 2 cars!) but if you don't you can't complain about getting a bad renewal.

I agree, do not use different details for different companies. Value of car is a must and also what is the excess. You cannot compare if you don't have the figures correct.

Don't bother with online tools in most case's. Calling in and explain you have other quotes and get them to try and match.

Usually companies like Blue Insurance will be cheaper but you have to look at small print as most of them won't offer the same service but you can use the price to beat up the main companies.

Also, small things like changing address with Blue Insurance they charge you, larger companies like Zurich will not. Not a huge issue for most people but could be something to consider.

sgalvin · 04-10-2017 11:17pm

Add your partner/gf/wife/lover/illicit affair etc.
My wife has 3 points and I wanted to see how much this was costing me extra. Took her off and it went up by €150!

Last year I temporarily added my father in law for a week which cost me €30. To add him for the whole year and my own mother too added only €20.

I rang 5 companies and it varied from €700 to €380.
Always ask for name and direct line phone number and ask for a discount if you take the insurance today! The deal will always be available tomorrow too.

DesperateDan · 07-10-2017 1:47pm

I paid 1400 with boi last year as a 27 year old with 1 years ncb (06 corsa). This year they offered me insurance for 1500. I was told it was going up across the board and there was nothing they could do at all. 5 more insurance companies later at similar or worse quotes (got fbd down to 1320...), I filled out Liberty's online form and they offered me it for less than 1000. Didn't have to talk to anyone and it was super quick and painless.

Maybe if I rang them they could have done even better but I think online forms can definitely still be useful sometimes.

unkel · 07-10-2017 2:16pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

I filled out Liberty's online form and they offered me it for less than 1000.

Be very careful with Liberty (formerly Quinn). I always thought that if your car was stolen, it would not count as a claim for your no claims bonus. With Quinn it does count and you lose your NCB :mad:

BoatMad · 09-10-2017 8:30pm

I always thought that if your car was stolen, it would not count as a claim for your no claims bonus.

seriously are there companies that regard a car being stolen doesnt count against NCB, Ive not heard or seen that

n97 mini · 09-10-2017 8:45pm

BoatMad wrote: »

seriously are there companies that regard a car being stolen doesnt count against NCB, Ive not heard or seen that

Same here. It's a substantial payout for the insurance company. The only thing that (afaik) doesn't affect your NCB is a windscreen claim (it didn't affect mine), but that probably varies by insurer.

BoatMad · 09-10-2017 8:48pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Same here. It's a substantial payout for the insurance company. The only thing that (afaik) doesn't affect your NCB is a windscreen claim (it didn't affect mine), but that probably varies by insurer.

absolutely , windscreen and then anything else constitutes a claim, I lost my NCB when I had two prangs in the snow in 2012( damm driveway was on a hill ) ( 5K claim and 2K claim)

n97 mini · 09-10-2017 8:55pm

BoatMad wrote: »

absolutely , windscreen and then anything else constitutes a claim, I lost my NCB when I had two prangs in the snow in 2012( damm driveway was on a hill ) ( 5K claim and 2K claim)

You snooze you lose!

Reminds me of when I had a rental car in the US. I put 3 sizeable scrapes on the bottom of the front bumper (damn snow drains) of a white car (i.e. very noticeable) and a rock from a passing lorry threw up a stone which put an obvious (but small) spiderweb style crack/chip in the windscreen. When I was returning the car yer man looks over the car in detail and says "everything is in order sir". I couldn't believe it. I asked what the policy was and he said scrapes longer than a dollar bill or chips/dents bigger than a silver dollar only counted. Amount of scrapes/dents doesn't matter!

BoatMad · 09-10-2017 9:00pm

You snooze you lose!

four wheel drive , all wheels slowly going forward, car slowly going backward , car and pillar exchange components , was forced to rope car down drive way

dont ask about the next snow damage, all because the daughter got caught in a drift

unkel · 09-10-2017 10:28pm

BoatMad wrote: »

seriously are there companies that regard a car being stolen doesnt count against NCB, Ive not heard or seen that

Of course. But not if you go with a cowboy insurer. From my own policy (Allianz):

"Claim(s) in respect of Fire, Theft or Windscreen will not impact Your No Claims Bonus."

It's absurd that if your car gets stolen, you get shafted. You haven't done anything wrong!

I'll make damn sure that should I ever change insurance company, this will be covered

n97 mini · 09-10-2017 10:44pm

unkel wrote: »

It's absurd that if your car gets stolen, you get shafted. You haven't done anything wrong!

Not necessarily the case. I went to Molloy's (off licence) in Coolmine the other night. I parked the Leaf up and as I was walking in I noticed a new-ish diesel Audi A6 sitting there empty, with engine running. I was tempted to steal it myself, but didn't. I concluded in my head that the owner must work for Dublin Bus or Irish Rail, and carried on in.

3 people ahead of me in the queue at the till, and the owner was the 3rd!

cros13 · 09-10-2017 11:29pm

AXA may reconsider windscreen cover on i3s if I make another claim.

I got a crack from stone hitting the frit of the windscreen on the M7 one winter morning.
AXA didn't know what hit them...

They were going to use their standard repair guys until I pointed out that there is a special tool used to remove the i3 windscreen instead of the steel wire.... and that the steel wire could cause damage to the frame and make the car a write-off... which BMW Ireland backed me up on.

They had to bring a specialist with the correct tools and training from the UK to replace the windscreen

He had to come twice because BMW had to take the car after he'd replace the windscreen and recalibrate the cameras used for the auto-steering and adaptive cruise and they refused access to the workshop so we had to reschedule.

n97 mini · 09-10-2017 11:39pm

cros13 wrote: »

AXA may reconsider windscreen cover on i3s if I make another claim.

I got a crack from stone hitting the frit of the windscreen on the M7 one winter morning.
AXA didn't know what hit them...

They were going to use their standard repair guys until I pointed out that there is a special tool used to remove the i3 windscreen instead of the steel wire.... and that the steel wire could cause damage to the frame and make the car a write-off... which BMW Ireland backed me up on.

They had to bring a specialist with the correct tools and training from the UK to replace the windscreen
He had to come twice because BMW had to take the car after he'd replace the windscreen and recalibrate the cameras used for the auto-steering and adaptive cruise and they refused access to the workshop so we had to reschedule.

Ha. Know a guy whose brother owns a Veyron. Headlamp bulb went. Couldn't figure out how to replace it, phoned Bugatti. Lads arrived in a helicopter and fixed it. Or so he says.

dev100 · 09-10-2017 11:53pm

n97 mini wrote:

Ha. Know a guy whose brother owns a Veyron. Headlamp bulb went. Couldn't figure out how to replace it, phoned Bugatti. Lads arrived in a helicopter and fixed it. Or so he says.

Nice problem to have

I think at that stage in life where you can afford a Veyron you have people to take care of the trivial things

unkel · 10-10-2017 3:01am

n97 mini wrote: »

Not necessarily the case. I went to Molloy's (off licence) in Coolmine the other night. I parked the Leaf up and as I was walking in I noticed a new-ish diesel Audi A6 sitting there empty, with engine running.

Then it obviously is your fault when it gets stolen. And if your car gets stolen like that and you can't produce the keys, the insurance will not even pay out. Never mind losing your NCB

BoatMad · 10-10-2017 10:35am

cros13 wrote: »

AXA may reconsider windscreen cover on i3s if I make another claim.

I got a crack from stone hitting the frit of the windscreen on the M7 one winter morning.
AXA didn't know what hit them...

They were going to use their standard repair guys until I pointed out that there is a special tool used to remove the i3 windscreen instead of the steel wire.... and that the steel wire could cause damage to the frame and make the car a write-off... which BMW Ireland backed me up on.

They had to bring a specialist with the correct tools and training from the UK to replace the windscreen
He had to come twice because BMW had to take the car after he'd replace the windscreen and recalibrate the cameras used for the auto-steering and adaptive cruise and they refused access to the workshop so we had to reschedule.

surely it would have been better to insist that BMW did the repair

BoatMad · 10-10-2017 10:36am

unkel wrote: »

Then it obviously is your fault when it gets stolen. And if your car gets stolen like that and you can't produce the keys, the insurance will not even pay out. Never mind losing your NCB

so if they fish them out through the letter box, your not covered !!:(

cros13 · 10-10-2017 11:07am

BoatMad wrote: »

surely it would have been better to insist that BMW did the repair

I tried that line.... they decided to get their preferred repairer "Mr Windscreen" to train on the i3 with the guy who came over.

unkel · 10-10-2017 11:20am

BoatMad wrote: »

so if they fish them out through the letter box, your not covered !!:(

No, no. You are covered if they steal your keys. But not if you leave the keys in your car / engine running like some clowns do on a cold winters morning.

And I'd say it wouldn't be too hard for the insurance company to find proof of what really happened should you make a claim...

DesperateDan · 10-10-2017 12:08pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Ha. Know a guy whose brother owns a Veyron. Headlamp bulb went. Couldn't figure out how to replace it, phoned Bugatti. Lads arrived in a helicopter and fixed it. Or so he says.

Is this the brother

n97 mini · 10-10-2017 8:12pm

DesperateDan wrote: »

Is this the brother

The ownership isn't contested as it was well publicised at the time. The helicopter bit I'm not so sure about.

unkel · 10-10-2017 8:37pm

That the Galway lad, who couldn't afford the VRT on Veyron?

KCross · 04-01-2018 1:15pm

Moreilly wrote: »

Lads, just got my renewal quote for the Ioniq, €690 with aviva as opposed to around €380 last year with my ice car, wife has a policy with aviva as well so usual discounts applied ect.., was not expecting this, anybody in the same boat? p.s. what value did you give for the car?

peposhi wrote: »

We are with Aviva for the last 11 years. 2 cars, house, health insurance policies (the last one did move in April to Irish Life since they took over). For the last 6 years I have at least one huge argument with them over the phone and every time they did decrease the premium.
Do not let them get away with it. This year I was to get an increase of roughly €150 between the two cars, ended up paying a total of €70 less my previous year’s.

My EV insurance is up in the next few weeks. Im with Zurich who were significantly cheaper than everyone else in Jan 2017 at €350

Renewal came in the post the other day at €894! :eek::eek::eek:

Nothing has changed on my end so this is bonkers! Insurance renewals are a complete enigma to me. If they added maybe €50 I would have just paid and saved myself the bother but almost tripling the price is basically telling me they don't want my business! So be it!

The insurance is for a 2015 Leaf. Fully comp, Full bonus protection, windscreen and breakdown cover, €250 excess and including my wife as a named driver.

I've priced around. Aviva have just quoted me €312 for the same!

The next nearest was JLT at €456, Future Insurance at €476 and Allianz at €489.

I do have a house insurance policy with Aviva which gave me an extra €80 off and if you have motor and home insurance with them you get free travel insurance:

http://www.aviva.ie/loyalty/free-travel-offer/faq/

I know where Im insuring my car this year!

EV insurance prices

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