Freezing Apartment

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:22am #1

God the apartments in Ireland are ****. There has to be a better way to heat an apartment than ****ty expensive storage heaters.
Had a look in the attic of out apartment and the insulation is non existent. How did they get a way with it.

handlemaster · 19-11-2019 11:24am

CosmicFool wrote: »

God the apartments in Ireland are ****. There has to be a better way to heat an apartment than ****ty expensive storage heaters.
Had a look in the attic of out apartment and the insulation is non existent. How did they get a way with it.

Who is they ?

is_that_so · 19-11-2019 11:27am

CosmicFool wrote: »

God the apartments in Ireland are ****. There has to be a better way to heat an apartment than ****ty expensive storage heaters.
Had a look in the attic of out apartment and the insulation is non existent. How did they get a way with it.

Do you own or do you rent? If it's renting contact landlord ASAP. Otherwise find someone who'll do it for you. No amount of feeling sorry for yourself will fix it! Good luck.:)

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:28am

handlemaster wrote: »

Who is they ?

The people who built the apartments. The engineer who signed off on it.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-11-2019 11:28am

Get some insulation and put it in the attic. Could get solid blocks if you might be removing it later.

Could look at getting infra red heaters too. They heat objects including people instead of air which can be more efficient in some contexts.

Or move to a less sh!t apartment.

o1s1n · 19-11-2019 11:30am

I haven't switched the storage heaters on in my apartment in years. They're ****e. Keep meaning to remove them.

At the moment I have one of these mounted on the wall in the bedroom;

https://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9220922/Trail/searchtext%3EPANEL+HEATER.htm

and one of these in the sitting room

https://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/4151412/Trail/searchtext%3EELECTRIC+STOVE.htm

Has kept us nice and toasty for the last couple of years. Just be mindful using them as they can chew through electricity if you leave them on constantly.

JustMe,K · 19-11-2019 11:31am

Insulate the attic & replace the radiators with better ones?

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:33am

is_that_so wrote: »

Do you own or do you rent? If it's renting contact landlord ASAP. Otherwise find someone who'll do it for you. No amount of feeling sorry for yourself will fix it! Good luck.:)

Renting. I don't feel sorry for myself. I just needed to rant. I've mentioned it to the landlord who says to contact the management company who I know will say it's not their problem. Our lease is for one year and isn't up till next summer. Would one be able to terminate the lease and get deposit back due to the place being absolutely freezing.

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:36am

Alaric Enough Potassium wrote: »

Get some insulation and put it in the attic. Could get solid blocks if you might be removing it later.

Could look at getting infra red heaters too. They heat objects including people instead of air which can be more efficient in some contexts.

Or move to a less sh!t apartment.

I'm renting the apt. I'll look into those infra red heaters though. Thanks.

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:37am

o1s1n wrote: »

I haven't switched the storage heaters on in my apartment in years. They're ****e. Keep meaning to remove them.

At the moment I have one of these mounted on the wall in the bedroom;

https://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9220922/Trail/searchtext%3EPANEL+HEATER.htm

and one of these in the sitting room

https://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/4151412/Trail/searchtext%3EELECTRIC+STOVE.htm

Has kept us nice and toasty for the last couple of years. Just be mindful using them as they can chew through electricity if you leave them on constantly.

Thanks but don't want to be buying those for an apt I rent.

is_that_so · 19-11-2019 11:39am

CosmicFool wrote: »

Renting. I don't feel sorry for myself. I just needed to rant. I've mentioned it to the landlord who says to contact the management company who I know will say it's not their problem. Our lease is for one year and isn't up till next summer. Would one be able to terminate the lease and get deposit back due to the place being absolutely freezing.

It is actually a management company problem because you don't own the attic, nor does the landlord under leasehold, they do and their upkeep is part of their remit. Get the name of someone in the management company and hound them. In the meantime some cheap heaters might be the way to go.:)

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 11:45am

is_that_so wrote: »

It is actually a management company problem because you don't own the attic, nor does the landlord under leasehold, they do and their upkeep is part of their remit. Get the name of someone in the management company and hound them. In the meantime some cheap heaters might be the way to go.:)

Thanks. I'll contact them.

Mrs OBumble · 19-11-2019 11:53am

CosmicFool wrote: »

Thanks. I'll contact them.

Don't waste your time: they aren't going to talk to a tenant.

Instead contact your landlord and ask him/ her to contact them.

Was a BER rating advised when you rented the place?

Personally I've found properly-used storage heaters to be very clost effective, when combined with adequate clothing and a decent duvet. And it's far better than living with the risk of your oil being stolen.

19-11-2019 11:56am

CosmicFool wrote: »

Renting. I don't feel sorry for myself. I just needed to rant. I've mentioned it to the landlord who says to contact the management company who I know will say it's not their problem. Our lease is for one year and isn't up till next summer. Would one be able to terminate the lease and get deposit back due to the place being absolutely freezing.

A bit disingenuous of the LL to tell his tenant to contact the Management Company. He is a member of the Mgt Company so he is the one who really needs to contact them.

That said, if you can access the roof space yourself, you should consider insulating the attic space yourself; it's not too expensive and you could ask the LL to offset it against your rent. Or ask him to do it.

For me terminating your lease over this issue would be the nuclear option!

19-11-2019 12:00pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Personally I've found properly-used storage heaters to be very clost effective, when combined with adequate clothing and a decent duvet.

Yep, they're grand. But you'd need a night rate electricity meter to reduce running costs, which, in a rented property might be a problem.

But the first thing to do is to install adequate roof cavity insulation.

Doop · 19-11-2019 12:16pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

The people who built the apartments. The engineer who signed off on it.

Whats the age of the block? It was most likely built to the regs at the time, also again depending on the age of the block it was most likely a case of 'self certification'. I would hazard a guess your laying blame in the wrong places.

The by far easiest thing to do is just put down additional insulation in the attic yourself, You wont get anywhere with the mgmt company, nor the landlord by the sounds of it.

SozBbz · 19-11-2019 12:20pm

is_that_so wrote: »

It is actually a management company problem because you don't own the attic, nor does the landlord under leasehold, they do and their upkeep is part of their remit. Get the name of someone in the management company and hound them. In the meantime some cheap heaters might be the way to go.:)

With respect, an OMC won't take instruction from a tenant. They'd need to hear it via the landlord. Your LL probably knows this and is just fobbing you off.

The OMC will only act if a significant proportion of their members (the owners) ask for something. Then if the spend is outside their budget they would probably only seek to include it in next years budget if the members voted on the matter at the AGM.

If you want to stay long term, possibly the best thing to do is try to make friends with owner occupier neighbours and plant the seed about better insulation reducing everyones bills. Get the item on the OMCs agenda.
Nothing will happen quickly, thats for sure.

is_that_so · 19-11-2019 2:10pm

SozBbz wrote: »

With respect, an OMC won't take instruction from a tenant. They'd need to hear it via the landlord. Your LL probably knows this and is just fobbing you off.

The OMC will only act if a significant proportion of their members (the owners) ask for something. Then if the spend is outside their budget they would probably only seek to include it in next years budget if the members voted on the matter at the AGM.

If you want to stay long term, possibly the best thing to do is try to make friends with owner occupier neighbours and plant the seed about better insulation reducing everyones bills. Get the item on the OMCs agenda.
Nothing will happen quickly, thats for sure.

They are responsible for it, whether they fob it off on someone else or use some nonsense about cost. We have dealt with this without drama. I guess we just run a good ship!

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 2:22pm

I don't see why I should have to fork out money for a place I'm only renting. I'm not paying to have the attic insulated. I will contact the landlord and management company and see what they'll do. I'm not going chasing them either. If they won't do anything then I'll be moving to probably a slightly better insulated apt.

washman3 · 19-11-2019 2:29pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

God the apartments in Ireland are ****. There has to be a better way to heat an apartment than ****ty expensive storage heaters.
Had a look in the attic of out apartment and the insulation is non existent. How did they get a way with it.

They gave a brown envelope to the local councillor or TD or both who in turn ensured that a blind eye was turned to the ****e standard the apartments were built thus maximising profit for their Galway Tent buddies.
Simple really.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-11-2019 2:32pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

I don't see why I should have to fork out money for a place I'm only renting. I'm not paying to have the attic insulated. I will contact the landlord and management company and see what they'll do. I'm not going chasing them either. If they won't do anything then I'll be moving to probably a slightly better insulated apt.

You're shelling out to heat your poorly insulated apartment right now though.

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 2:36pm

Alaric Enough Potassium wrote: »

You're shelling out to heat your poorly insulated apartment right now though.

So I should just suck it up then and pay out thousands for insulation for the landlord?

Idbatterim · 19-11-2019 2:40pm

What a pisstake. What kind of priCk landlord would knowingly let someone live in their place with no roof insulation?!

Best to get it sprayfoamed. If you did it yourself op, would be few hundred not into thousands , but that’s not the point really ...

19-11-2019 2:53pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

I don't see why I should have to fork out money for a place I'm only renting. I'm not paying to have the attic insulated. I will contact the landlord and management company and see what they'll do. I'm not going chasing them either. If they won't do anything then I'll be moving to probably a slightly better insulated apt.

Your call. I genuinely couldn't give a damn what you do. Although I'll call around and help you pack, if you like.

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 3:08pm

171170 wrote: »

Your call. I genuinely couldn't give a damn what you do. Although I'll call around and help you pack, if you like.

I just don't understand people like you.

CosmicFool · 19-11-2019 3:11pm

Doop wrote: »

Whats the age of the block? It was most likely built to the regs at the time, also again depending on the age of the block it was most likely a case of 'self certification'. I would hazard a guess your laying blame in the wrong places.

The by far easiest thing to do is just put down additional insulation in the attic yourself, You wont get anywhere with the mgmt company, nor the landlord by the sounds of it.

I'm not sure but I reckon the 90s. The apt is in serious need of renovating but it was cheaper than other apt around the place and very close to work so didn't really mind. I'm now understanding why it was cheaper than other places. Lesson learned I guess.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-11-2019 3:17pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

So I should just suck it up then and pay out thousands for insulation for the landlord?

I'd avoid spending thousands on it personally.

There really should be a regulation on having minimum standards of insulation on rental properties. They've decided I have to bring my house up to b2 if I extend by 33% or more. Rents are crazy these days so you should expect some reasonable basic standards.

SozBbz · 19-11-2019 3:24pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

I'm not sure but I reckon the 90s. The apt is in serious need of renovating but it was cheaper than other apt around the place and very close to work so didn't really mind. I'm now understanding why it was cheaper than other places. Lesson learned I guess.

Heres your answer.

Property only has to conform to the standard at time of its construction and insulation wasnt such a hot topic back in the 90's.

The LL has probably priced in high heating costs. You could pay more elsewhere and have lower bills but its probably net the same.

Talk to your LL and see if you can terminate early without penalty if you want to move. In the current market conditions they might let you or only charge a small penalty. Negotiate.

By no means should you make changes (even if they'd actually be improvements) to a rented property. Its not yours to touch, and its probably not the LL's either. Roof space tends to be the charge of the OMC and considered a common area. Interfere with that at your peril.

Doop · 19-11-2019 3:38pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

I don't see why I should have to fork out money for a place I'm only renting. I'm not paying to have the attic insulated. I will contact the landlord and management company and see what they'll do. I'm not going chasing them either. If they won't do anything then I'll be moving to probably a slightly better insulated apt.

Well its a work around really and the only way it will ever get done... at any sort of reasonable time frame..at cost of couple of hundred for comfort ..I know what i'd be doing..

Anyway you've answered yourself a few times on the thread... if you aren't happy.. move...

antix80 · 19-11-2019 3:58pm

CosmicFool wrote: »

God the apartments in Ireland are ****. There has to be a better way to heat an apartment than ****ty expensive storage heaters.
Had a look in the attic of out apartment and the insulation is non existent. How did they get a way with it.

Does the storage heater heat your apartment when it's on, or do you refuse to turn it on because it's too expensive?

I'd say move out and find a better built apartment.

I know each apartment is meant to be self-contained, but in the past I lived in a top floor of an apartment building and the heat from the apartments below and to the sides kept me nice and toasty.
If your neighbours leave the heat off to save money, heat will be escaping from your apartment from all directions.

Gumbo · 19-11-2019 4:02pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

What a pisstake. What kind of priCk landlord would knowingly let someone live in their place with no roof insulation?!

Best to get it sprayfoamed. If you did it yourself op, would be few hundred not into thousands , but that’s not the point really ...

Do not do this OP, without the landlords consent and permission from the Management Company.

The property was built in the 90’s. A time when 50mm aero board went under concrete slabs. Now a days it’s 125-150mm.
Regulations change and improve.

The same people giving out about these crap regs are the same people giving out that force new builds to comply with the much higher current regs. Can’t win.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-11-2019 4:53pm

Spray foam never finishes off-gassing. So if you have an attic full of it then it is continuously emitting formaldehyde. formaldehyde is a little denser than air so it falls down into your house.

AlanG · 19-11-2019 5:13pm

If the BER was advertised on the apartment when you rented then you cant really complain as long as it is genuine. If there was no BER or it was false thn you could probably break your lease with no penalty as it is a legal requirement to advertise a BER. if I were you I would buy a few rolls of rockwool and stick them in the attic.

headtheball14 · 19-11-2019 5:44pm

It's 20 quid a roll in woodies atm. 3 rolls did my attic. You could see if ll will cover or just buy and do it. Or just burn heating all winter .

DoozerT6 · 19-11-2019 9:26pm

I can't see how a tenant would be allowed, or insured!!, to go into the communal attic space and insulate the part of the ceiling over their own apartment. Should anything happen to you it could be a legal mess.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-11-2019 9:33pm

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I can't see how a tenant would be allowed, or insured!!, to go into the communal attic space and insulate the part of the ceiling over their own apartment. Should anything happen to you it could be a legal mess.

Don't fall through the ceiling so. Stupid society where nobody wants to do the most mundane tasks without worrying about insurance.

If it's removable then I can't imagine any worse consequence than being told to remove it at some point.

I guess don't do any stupid stuff like leaving big gaps especially over the kitchen or a bathroom, or blocking up all the ventilation.

This is a pointless debate though as it doesn't sound like he's considering this as an option anyway.

MicktheMan · 19-11-2019 9:37pm

Alaric Enough Potassium wrote: »

This is a pointless debate though as it doesn't sound like he's considering this as an option anyway.

That and the fact that lack of insulation might not be the problem.

Spanish Eyes · 19-11-2019 9:52pm

Buy a halogen heater for 25quid. You will be roasting, and they are relatively inexpensive to run. Add in an oil filled plug in radiator and you will be in your bikini/shorts.

Am waiting for a big job to get the gas boiler moved and upgraded and these two items have saved my life with absolutely NO central heating at the moment! Heated electric blanket finishes it all off beautifully.

They can be moved from room to room. Buy them, keep yourself warm as there is nothing worse than being cold and miserable.

antix80 · 19-11-2019 10:06pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

They can be moved from room to room. Buy them, keep yourself warm as there is nothing worse than being cold and miserable.

+1 on this.
I've a blow heater and a halogen heater. By the time i notice I've run out of oil the house has dropped to single digits and these items are a lifesaver. The blowheater on my locker, the halogen heater in the living room. add an electric blanket and you'd swear you were in the bahamas.

Lantus · 19-11-2019 11:17pm

Post up a pic of the attic and the insulation. Try to indicate joist depth.

If it is this then as said a few rolls is cheap as chips and easy to put down. Other culprits are air leakage through doors and windows or external vents. Check all.

Mrs OBumble · 19-11-2019 11:24pm

OP, we're still waiting to hear what the BER was when you rented the place ....

meijin · 19-11-2019 11:30pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, we're still waiting to hear what the BER was when you rented the place ....

and that's an excuse for a cold place?

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/what-minimum-standards-must-a-property-meet/

"Adequate heating and ventilation must be provided."

Man Vs ManUre · 19-11-2019 11:42pm

Long story short I switched provider to Airtricity few years ago, and due to some mixup on my part thinking they were taking electricity and gas, they only took over electricity, and the account closing with BG removed my gas meter from outside and took me off the grid.
Tried to get back on it 2 winters ago, and first step is you have to get RGI certified and then you can get gas meter reinstalled, but RGII fella said he was detecting a leak at the outside meter pipe so couldn’t give the cert, and could be big job to locate the leak. So been using a Dyson heater for past 2 years. So far have avoided an electric meter actual bill and just been paying fixed, so will eventually have huge electricity bill on top of trying to get the heating properly fixed.
Will try another RGII fella and see if he says same.

Enter name here · 19-11-2019 11:51pm

meijin wrote: »

and that's an excuse for a cold place?

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/what-minimum-standards-must-a-property-meet/

"Adequate heating and ventilation must be provided."

The OP stated the apartment has storage heating that is adequate under law.

Maybe you could read the whole thread next time before passing an utterly useless statement.

meijin · 20-11-2019 12:07am

Enter name here wrote: »

The OP stated the apartment has storage heating that is adequate under law.

Maybe you could read the whole thread next time before passing an utterly useless statement.

I've read the thread. It's not adequate if it's not working or it's still cold. Or he needs to learn how to use the storage heater correctly.

Mrs OBumble · 20-11-2019 12:41am

meijin wrote: »

I've read the thread. It's not adequate if it's not working or it's still cold. Or he needs to learn how to use the storage heater correctly.

Nothing to say it's not working: the OP is complaining that it's expensive, but hasn't given us any detailed information, so we don't know if it's not being used due to perceived expense, or is being used incorrectly, or is actually expensive due to the overall energy rating of the building. I'm in a place with only storage heating, and I suspect little insulation. But it's top floor, so we get risking heat from other apartments. We turn on one small storage heater, and it's enough for the entire apartment for most of the year. Not expensive at all. IMHO.

And as you note, the legal requirement is for adequate heating and ventilation - there's no legal requirement for insulation. The only legal requirement is for a BER so that prospective tenants know what they're getting before moving in.

JustMe,K · 20-11-2019 9:24am

Storage heating in fairness is a nightmare. If you're out working during the day your place is nice and toasty until you get home in the evening and its cooled down.
My old apartment was draughty and although it was first floor there were empty retail units beneath us, so we even had a layer of condensation on the floors at times if we didnt have the heating on.

At minimum I would be investing in better heaters that can be taken with me when I leave. The LL and management company clearly have no interest in taking this seriously, and I would rather spend an extra few quid on my electricity bill to be cosy than beat my head against a brick wall.

Mezzotint · 20-11-2019 9:35am

Ireland's accomodation issues will eventually just undermine economic growth. I'm already aware of people opting to take jobs on the continent instead of both Dublin and Cork because of bad accommodation. It's not just the price, but the poor quality and lack of appropriate apartments.

Our building regs were terrible when many of those units were constructed and storage heaters are often useless. An apartment shouldn't be cold or damp or ludicrously expensive to maintain a proper temperature in.

I'd suggest actually getting the storage heating system checked out too. They can often have broken timers and be incorrectly configured.

Deanzoggggg · 20-11-2019 10:46am

There is something often said here that its untrue.I am hearing people claim well regs were weak back then and they are good now so that is why many aparts are cold. This is often not the case. If you dig up a book written in the 1990s about Irish construction often talk about how builders would ignore best practiise. Likewise many brand new homes in 2019 are still constructed with design faults that have left them freezing. Other countries have better quality control on workmanship (its own profession in Germany). So the lesson is dont assume a cold old building meets regulations of the day and don't assume a brand new apartment will be warm.

antix80 · 20-11-2019 10:53am

Deanzoggggg wrote: »

If you dig up a book written in the 1990s about Irish construction often talk about how builders would ignore best practiise.

There's best practice and there are building regulations.
Assuming building regulations left the house just about liveable, ignoring best practice combined with flouting building regs can make a house unlivable.

Saudades · 20-11-2019 11:54am

Is there an online register somewhere to check when an apartment building was built?

Freezing Apartment

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