What do you have to earn to be rich?

Stheno · 31-12-2019 1:39am

themouthpiece wrote: »

Sorry not sure about the kids part, i excluded that. Lets just say a couple starting out.

Not sure there are tax credits for having kids

iamtony · 31-12-2019 1:41am

Stheno wrote: »

Not sure there are tax credits for having kids

Yes there are for sure.

Stheno · 31-12-2019 1:41am

iamtony wrote: »

Yes pretty much. Anything else like sky, Netflix, internet etc are luxurious. I pay internet but I often wonder why because the phone internet is what is used the most and tethering to the TV is easy and fast enough to run Netflix etc.

Ok so for me utilities are gas electric internet bins and tv

TV I can do without but not the rest they are essential

Stheno · 31-12-2019 1:42am

iamtony wrote: »

Yes there are for sure.

Such as? Home carers credit? Or children's allowance?

iamtony · 31-12-2019 1:48am

Stheno wrote: »

Ok so for me utilities are gas electric internet bins and tv

TV I can do without but not the rest they are essential

It's not even a big deal. Add an extra 500 a month to cover all that. Still a lot left over. I've lost count but I'm sure that would still leave 2k a month. Most will then say oh I deserve a 2 week holiday and 4 weekends away etc. Anyway the point t I was making is valid. The salary quoted is way more than enough to sustain a family in Dublin in a modest 3 bed semi with a mortgage of less than 1500 a month which will get you a nice house and still he able to build wealth and save 3 to 6 month salary which is the recommended amount and a pension on a combined income of 80-90k and that is higher middle or upper class money, yall crazy with your I cant get by on 90k a year.

31-12-2019 1:48am

iamtony wrote: »

Yes there are for sure.

No tax credits for kids.
Children's allowance isn't a tax credit.

themouthpiece · 31-12-2019 1:50am

iamtony wrote: »

It's not even a big deal. Add an extra 500 a month to cover all that. Still a lot left over. I've lost count but I'm sure that would still leave 2k a month. Most will then say oh I deserve a 2 week holiday and 4 weekends away etc. Anyway the point t I was making is valid. The salary quoted is way more than enough to sustain a family in Dublin in a modest 3 bed semi with a mortgage of less than 1500 a month which will get you a nice house and still he able to build wealth and save 3 to 6 month salary which is the recommended amount and a pension on a combined income of 80-90k and that is higher middle or upper class money, yall crazy with your I cant get by on 90k a year.

Fools and their money are soon parted. I agree with you fully.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 1:50am

Stheno wrote: »

Such as? Home carers credit? Or children's allowance?

we never even mentioned children's allowance that's even more money to spare. I'm not sure to be honest, I dont pay paye but I know when I do my tax assessment their is an allowance for number of dependents.

Irish_rat · 31-12-2019 1:51am

Op is not defining rich at all he means comfortable.

voldejoie · 31-12-2019 1:53am

I get give or take, it works out at about with expenses £140,000 a year and I pay 30.3% tax on that, so it’s about a net £100,000, and out of that £100,000 I run a home in Dublin, Castlebar and Brussels. I wanna tell you something, try it sometime…

Stheno · 31-12-2019 1:55am

iamtony wrote: »

It's not even a big deal. Add an extra 500 a month to cover all that. Still a lot left over. I've lost count but I'm sure that would still leave 2k a month. Most will then say oh I deserve a 2 week holiday and 4 weekends away etc. Anyway the point t I was making is valid. The salary quoted is way more than enough to sustain a family in Dublin in a modest 3 bed semi with a mortgage of less than 1500 a month which will get you a nice house and still he able to build wealth and save 3 to 6 month salary which is the recommended amount and a pension on a combined income of 80-90k and that is higher middle or upper class money, yall crazy with your I cant get by on 90k a year.

I never said either how much I earn or that I cant get by on it.

You are excluding renters, people who pay into pensions, and childcare costs.

Just because you don't have those costs and can optimise how much tax you pay as self employed does not make them irrelevant

Strumms · 31-12-2019 2:00am

fishy_fishy wrote: »

Rent on a family home in Dublin is more lile 2500pm. So take 30,000 in rent, leaving sweet FA after bills.

A house certainly an apartment no though... I wouldn’t pay 2500 rent if I could just spend that on mortgage repayments and actually get to own the thing.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 2:01am

Stheno wrote: »

I never said either how much I earn or that I cant get by on it.

You are excluding renters, people who pay into pensions, and childcare costs.

Just because you don't have those costs and can optimise how much tax you pay as self employed does not make them irrelevant

I never mentioned your salary, I was replying to a post and then you replied to me.......ah never mind, your literally just being annoying for the sake of it.
Your like aha, what about the people renting. Well they aren't getting rich anytime soon and that's what the thread is about. You seemed to of just chimed in and started attacking everything I said for some reason.

Stheno · 31-12-2019 2:02am

Strumms wrote: »

A house certainly an apartment no though... I wouldn’t pay 2500 rent if I could just spend that on mortgage repayments and actually get to own the thing.

Two bed apartments right beside my work rent for 3700 a month

Stheno · 31-12-2019 2:03am

iamtony wrote: »

I never mentioned your salary, I was replying to a post and then you replied to me.......ah never mind, your literally just being annoying for the sake of it.
Your like aha, what about the people renting. Well they aren't getting rich anytime soon and that's what the thread is about. You seemed to of just chimed in and started attacking everything I said for some reason.

No I just pointed out how nonsensical your posts are as did others

iamtony · 31-12-2019 2:04am

Stheno wrote: »

Two bed apartments right beside my work rent for 3700 a month

And the people renting them are Google employees who average 100k salary and they can somehow manage to squeeze by each month the poor souls.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 2:10am

Stheno wrote: »

No I just pointed out how nonsensical your posts are as did others

I dont think they were nonsensical. Not being able to support a family or buy a home earning a combined income or 90k per annum is nonsensical. Maybe my figures were a little off but not by a lot, I know cause I pay them myself. Every month for the last 15 years.

themouthpiece · 31-12-2019 2:11am

I think a lot of people's problem is that they don't see life outside of Dublin, there are currently plenty of jobs outside of Dublin all paying good wages, nearly matching Dublin wages and some maybe 20% less at most.

If people choose to live in Dublin and are cribbing that's there own fault. Why pay 400K for a house when you can get the same elsewhere for 200k or less. Its not the USA we are living in where you need a flight to get to one end of the country to another.

Stheno · 31-12-2019 2:17am

iamtony wrote: »

I dont think they were nonsensical. Not being able to support a family or buy a home earning a combined income or 90k per annum is nonsensical. Maybe my figures were a little off but not by a lot, I know cause I pay them myself. Every month for the last 15 years.

Do you live in Dublin, rent and pay childcare out of the 4700 a month your couple on 90k do?

lainey_d_123 · 31-12-2019 2:42am

iamtony wrote: »

I've 2 kids, a paid for house that I knock out in 10 years worth about 350k, 2 newish cars, pay all the utilities, pay 115 month for sky, have a teenager and a wife who spend a half hour each in the shower each day and my household income is probably about 80 this year with me full time and the missus working part time.

And you pointed out the problem yourself, most high earners live in expensive places and have big cars aswell.

And you've already said you don't pay your taxes, so that's why you're better off than most.

Come back and post here when you're doing a standard PAYE job and see how well off you are then.

I didn't mean expensive places as in properties, I meant high cost of living areas. Utter bollox that there are plenty of well paid jobs everywhere in the country. I'd love to live in the arse end of Kerry but what would I do there? I live in Dublin because that's where the jobs are in my industry and where I have the best chance of progression and promotion, which will give me options in the future.

kowloon · 31-12-2019 4:31am

This thread is going to be a goldmine when the next 'scroungers on the dole' thread starts.

JohnCleary · 31-12-2019 6:34am

Before or after tax?

31-12-2019 6:46am

I reckon if I was taking in approximately 50k per year, then I'd be in a position to retire in 10 years or so.

I'm making about 32-35k at the moment, and it's getting me by, but i live a fairly cheap/inexpensive lifestyle. I also live in a rough area, though, so I'm paying a mortgage (approx 70k to go) and hoping to be able to save up to sell this house and move to somewhere in the middle of nowhere, which will probably cost me about 100k all in when i factor in what I'll make off the sale of this house, etc.

If the area I lived in was nicer and I was happy to stay here, i reckon i'd be "rich" in about 5 years as I, as above, have no real bills and don't do a whole lot that costs much money.

Mad_maxx · 31-12-2019 9:56am

themouthpiece wrote: »

And this is what I hate about this country. You a hard working man all your life, paying off your 30 year mortgage and Sally at 21 down the road pops out a kid and has a house for life.

There is something seriously seriously wrong with this country. It rewards the people who don't work.

People getting a social house are better off than a couple earning 90K a year between them.

Ireland is scarily socialist and getting more so by the day

iamtony · 31-12-2019 10:13am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

And you've already said you don't pay your taxes, so that's why you're better off than most.

Come back and post here when you're doing a standard PAYE job and see how well off you are then.

I didn't mean expensive places as in properties, I meant high cost of living areas. Utter bollox that there are plenty of well paid jobs everywhere in the country. I'd love to live in the arse end of Kerry but what would I do there? I live in Dublin because that's where the jobs are in my industry and where I have the best chance of progression and promotion, which will give me options in the future.

Whoa their horsie I never said I dont pay my taxes.

I'n my rough breakdown I included a car so living beside work is s luxury many cant afford. Plenty of new homes for around 300k in the commuting areas around dublin, neath, kildare etc. No need to live in the high cost of living areas when purchasing a starter home. 10 years in when you have built equity paying down your mortgage alot faster than you should will mean your now in a position to live almost anywhere in dublin.

lainey_d_123 · 31-12-2019 10:16am

iamtony wrote: »

Whoa their horsie I never said I dont pay my taxes.

I'n my rough breakdown I included a car so living beside work is s luxury many cant afford. Plenty of new homes for around 300k in the commuting areas around dublin, neath, kildare etc. No need to live in the high cost of living areas when purchasing a starter home. 10 years in when you have built equity paying down your mortgage alot faster than you should will mean your now in a position to live almost anywhere in dublin.

You said you didn't.

You're a freaking taxi driver - your car IS your work! That's not the case for most people. Plenty don't drive at all (I can't) or value their health and sanity more than spending hours a day commuting.

Purchasing a 'starter home' way outside Dublin...building equity...sounds a lot like the boom times and we all know what happened there.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 10:17am

Stheno wrote: »

Do you live in Dublin, rent and pay childcare out of the 4700 a month your couple on 90k do?

No. I do live in dublin, own my home, dont need to pay childcare and I never would personally. But anyone who cant "Survive" on that income needs to take a big look at their financial situation and maybe not live in Dublin its that's how it needs to be.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 10:25am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You said you didn't.

You're a freaking taxi driver - your car IS your work! That's not the case for most people. Plenty don't drive at all (I can't) or value their health and sanity more than spending hours a day commuting.

Purchasing a 'starter home' way outside Dublin...building equity...sounds a lot like the boom times and we all know what happened there.

I never said I didn't pay tax. I said I didn't pay alot of tax but it's all legal and above board. There are pros and cons to being self employed as we all know.
Nobody said way outside dublin. Lots of the areas around dublin you can get a house for 300k and then the first time buyers grand and have an hour commute if you play your cards right. And not everyone works in the very centre of dublin so let's say your in blanch blanchardstown, you buy in meath then your commute is a half hour most days.
If you think commuting is so difficult, try drive in Dublin for a living :pac:

lainey_d_123 · 31-12-2019 10:25am

iamtony wrote: »

No. I do live in dublin, own my home, dont need to pay childcare and I never would personally. But anyone who cant "Survive" on that income needs to take a big look at their financial situation and maybe not live in Dublin its that's how it needs to be.

But any household with two people working often has no choice but to pay childcare, that's the point. And that childcare can be as much as half of the take home earnings, even when household income is decent. It's insanely, ridiculously expensive.

Empathy isn't your strong point, is it?

iamtony · 31-12-2019 10:30am

And I'd say the stress of a financial situation of having 2 working full time paying a massive mortgage and having strangers raise your kids, knowing if one of you gets sacked that you wont be able to survive is way worse than sitting in a heated box listening to radio or podcasts for a few hours per day and knowing your partner could quit her part time gig in the local dunnes if she wanted too.
As I originally stated, that first situation where you have no choice is being poor in my eyes.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 10:33am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

But any household with two people working often has no choice but to pay childcare, that's the point. And that childcare can be as much as half of the take home earnings, even when household income is decent. It's insanely, ridiculously expensive.

Empathy isn't your strong point, is it?

If the childcare is half of the take home or even close then one should stop working obviously and spend more time raising the family.
Empathy has nothing to do with it I'm just trying to point out the stupidity of a couple earning 90k a year that cant get by in Dublin.

The J Stands for Jay · 31-12-2019 10:36am

Stheno wrote: »

Nope closer to 1800 and more if civil servants.

And your figures for utilities are way off. 150 a month is my gas and electricity add internet,bins, TV and its twice that

190 a month is my gas, electricity, bins, TV and internet. You might want to shop around a bit.

The J Stands for Jay · 31-12-2019 10:37am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You are living in Fantasyland.

Very unlikely they'd have such a high salary and such a low mortgage. Most high earners also live in expensive, high cost of living areas...unsurprisingly. 1200 to 1500 a month gets you a modest 1 or 2-bedroom apartment in Dublin, certainly not a family home.

Utilities 150 a month for a family with kids? You have to be kidding me. I pay nearly 2/3 of that for my share of all the household bills, in a household of 2 adults in a small flat.

You think a family with a household income of 7K is paying 1K in tax?

Have you ever actually had a job or lived as an adult on your own? A family earning 90K with 2 kids and a mortgage would be just getting by in many areas (esp Dublin)...if you think this means living in a fancy area and driving a fancy car, you're very wrong.

Other than the tax, I don't see anything wrong with those numbers.

lainey_d_123 · 31-12-2019 10:38am

iamtony wrote: »

If the childcare is half of the take home or even close then one should stop working obviously and spend more time raising the family.
Empathy has nothing to do with it I'm just trying to point out the stupidity of a couple earning 90k a year that cant get by in Dublin.

It isn't 'obviously'.

Children don't stay children forever. They don't need full-time childcare forever. Then the woman (and it is nearly always the woman) is left with a gap on her CV and has to go looking for work from scratch. Nothing stupid about trying to ensure job security and financial security for the future.

In a case where both partners are earning roughly equal amounts, there is often no choice but for both to go back to work and to pay a few years of childcare until the kids are school age.

Mad_maxx · 31-12-2019 11:00am

McGaggs wrote: »

190 a month is my gas, electricity, bins, TV and internet. You might want to shop around a bit.

My woman spends more than that using the shower each month

Wanderer78 · 31-12-2019 11:05am

Mad_maxx wrote:

Ireland is scarily socialist and getting more so by the day

Have to agree, I'm amazed we managed to social the means of production by wrestling it from the hands of foreign investors, but strange things do happen

Mad_maxx · 31-12-2019 11:08am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Have to agree, I'm amazed we managed to social the means of production by wrestling it from the hands of foreign investors, but strange things do happen

Everything to the right of Mao is capitalist in your eyes

iamtony · 31-12-2019 11:18am

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It isn't 'obviously'.

Children don't stay children forever. They don't need full-time childcare forever. Then the woman (and it is nearly always the woman) is left with a gap on her CV and has to go looking for work from scratch. Nothing stupid about trying to ensure job security and financial security for the future.

In a case where both partners are earning roughly equal amounts, there is often no choice but for both to go back to work and to pay a few years of childcare until the kids are school age.

There is always a choice. And in the 5th wealthiest nation per capita GDP in the world with unemployment figures what they are and people screaming for staff I'm sure a gap on the cv wouldn't matter all that much.

Personally I would work 2 jobs myself rather that put my kids in childcare. See that's a choice.

Alf Veedersane · 31-12-2019 11:32am

iamtony wrote: »

Personally I would work 2 jobs myself rather that put my kids in childcare. See that's a choice.

You'd rather not see your kids?

iamtony · 31-12-2019 11:37am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You'd rather not see your kids?

I'd still see them it would be the sleep that would suffer. If it meant my kids could be raised by their mother at home and I had to work 9 to 5 and deliver Chinese in the evening I would do that as I have done it in the past.

Alf Veedersane · 31-12-2019 11:40am

iamtony wrote: »

I'd still see them it would be the sleep that would suffer. If it meant my kids could be raised by their mother at home and I had to work 9 to 5 and deliver Chinese in the evening I would do that as I have done it in the past.

Just because you did that in the past doesn't mean you or the children were better off. It just meant you didn't have to avail of childcare.

iamtony · 31-12-2019 11:45am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just because you did that in the past doesn't mean you or the children were better off. It just meant you didn't have to avail of childcare.

I didn't do it while I had kids.

Personally i love spending time with my children. I collect them from school most days and I've never missed a school play or parent teacher meeting and I bring them to gymnastics and football etc etc. I would never want to be in a position to have to work 2 jobs again but if it was a choice between that and childcare I'd choose that everytime. But as I said that's a choice. That's all I was saying.

Alf Veedersane · 31-12-2019 11:48am

iamtony wrote: »

I didn't do it while I had kids.

Personally i love spending time with my children. I collect them from school most days and I've never missed a school play or parent teacher meeting and I bring them to gymnastics and football etc etc. I would never want to be in a position to have to work 2 jobs again but if it was a choice between that and childcare I'd choose that everytime. But as I said that's a choice. That's all I was saying.

I don't see how any of that is am either/or choice. Our eldest is in school and we collect her every day. Haven't missed a school concert r parent teacher meeting yet. She went to a crèche and has some friends she has regular play dates with. I understand why people have a negative association with childcare. I just don't agree with it.

Wanderer78 · 31-12-2019 11:53am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Everything to the right of Mao is capitalist in your eyes

capitalism, one of the greatest creations of mankind, im not sure the use of this statement?

andekwarhola · 31-12-2019 1:11pm

themouthpiece wrote: »

No problem when people can genuinely pay for them and its not crippling them whatsoever, but some families are living pay check to pay check with two new cars and might get out once a month for a meal and a few drinks. Basically their life is work, home. Rinse and repeat.

Reminds me of Mrs Bucket.

You're bumming off your parents which dims the impact of your financial homilies somewhat.

beejee · 31-12-2019 1:16pm

What you earn is mostly useless without measuring against expenditure.

My own metric for "bloody well off" is when you earn the average industrial wage off interest alone.

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 1:18pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

capitalism, one of the greatest creations of mankind, im not sure the use of this statement?

Mankind didn't create capitalism. Nature has always been the most competitive market of all.

SilverFox2 · 31-12-2019 1:19pm

beejee wrote: »

What you earn is mostly useless without measuring against expenditure.

My own metric for "bloody well off" is when you earn the average industrial wage off interest alone.

Many "wealthy" families in boomtime went to NAMA. I'm not sure one off 170K or more is reflective of wealth.

Professor Genius · 31-12-2019 1:19pm

andekwarhola wrote: »

You're bumming off your parents which dims the impact of your financial homilies somewhat.

Ha ha ! Feeeeeeeeel the burn !

beejee · 31-12-2019 1:46pm

SilverFox2 wrote: »

Many "wealthy" families in boomtime went to NAMA. I'm not sure one off 170K or more is reflective of wealth.

Ah, what I mean is annual interest.

Quick crappy example...

1 million quid in a bank, not touched or needed, earning 5% interest interest after dirt, giving 50k a year for essentially nothing.

That's very comfortable living, forget all this nonsense about equities and property prices that change with the wind. Rock solid money not going anywhere.

A simplistic example, but that's my measure of "being very well off".

What do you have to earn to be rich?

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