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Advice needed on external 3G/4G antenna

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24567…15

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    #32
    selfbuilder1
    Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭selfbuilder1


    Hi folks,

    I am currently using a 3 sim in a router for broadband. I am considering getting an external antenna to increase my speed. I don't have line of site from my house but if I go a short distance up the road I can see the mast. I have read alot of varying advice regarding directional and omni-directional antenna. There is only one 3 LTE mast in the area I'm in. Which type of antenna would work the best for me?

    Thanks.


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    #33
    KpsCowley
    Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭KpsCowley


    selfbuilder1 wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    I am currently using a 3 sim in a router for broadband. I am considering getting an external antenna to increase my speed. I don't have line of site from my house but if I go a short distance up the road I can see the mast. I have read alot of varying advice regarding directional and omni-directional antenna. There is only one 3 LTE mast in the area I'm in. Which type of antenna would work the best for me?

    Thanks.

    Hi selfbuilder,

    As far as I have researched, running an antenna lead anywhere near 4-5 meters results in huge losses.

    Another option is an outside modem that you can power through a single cat 6 cable using PoE, it works on band 3 (1800 MHz) which THREE supports, but the downside is that it supports LTE (4G) only, as far as I can understand (https://www.irishwireless.net/wireless-outdoor/4g-lte/rbsxtlte3-7). Saves the losses incurred with long external antenna leads too.

    I'm still waiting for it to arrive.


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    #34
    Alter-Ego
    Registered Users Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Alter-Ego


    selfbuilder1 wrote: »
    Hi folks,

    I am currently using a 3 sim in a router for broadband. I am considering getting an external antenna to increase my speed. I don't have line of site from my house but if I go a short distance up the road I can see the mast. I have read alot of varying advice regarding directional and omni-directional antenna. There is only one 3 LTE mast in the area I'm in. Which type of antenna would work the best for me?

    Thanks.

    I am in the same situation as you, no LOS to a 3 LTE mast. I purchased a pair of these: http://www.dipol.ie/cellular-systems/gsm-3g-lte-antennas/lte/atk-log-alp-lte-mimo-2x2-antenna-800-3000mhz-10m-cables-sma-plug.html based on the advice of Editorsean on this thread:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675233

    I pointed them in the general direction of the mast and am now getting average close to 20Mbps, when I was previously only getting 5-6mb with the modem outdoors at ground level.


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    #35
    €>sense
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭€>sense


    http://www.solwise.co.uk/wireless-elevationtool.html

    This is interesting, played around with it and it seems pretty accurate for my location.

    I put in the height of my window and it says my line of sight is blocked, but add the height of a mast and LOS adjusts so that I can just see it - exactly as it is. I can barely see top of antenna from window.

    Now anyone know how to tell which mast in a cluster is a 3 mast and what height the actual 4G transmitters are on the mast?


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    #36
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    The much maligned COMREG provide a really neat map viewer for towers.

    This map shows the local of cell towers.

    http://www.askcomreg.ie/mobile/siteviewer.273.LE.asp

    Click on the tower and it shows the supplier and what service (GSM, 4g) is provided. On some towers it also has a radiation report which shows what frequencies are transmitted.

    Not bad for regulator.!


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    #37
    €>sense
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭€>sense


    Great stuff,

    I now know exactly which mast to aim at!!


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    #38
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi
    Does anyone know can i put a vodafone mobile sim in to a DLink router to test for 4g signal.
    I have the router connected to two YAGI directional High Gain Antennas pointing at a Vodafone mast and wondering can I test for a 4G signal with a mobile SIM.
    I will be borrowing the SIM of a Vodafone mobile user that has 4G .
    The router is a DLink and is Unlocked.
    Any help would be great !!!!!!!!

    Regards
    BK


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    #39
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    A Vodafone phone SIM will work in a router, but you must set the APN in the router to 'live.vodafone.com' before connecting. If the router has the option, set it to manually connect before inserting the SIM.

    Most modems/routers will automatically set the APN to hs.vodafone.ie and in turn automatically connect once powered up. If this APN is used with a phone SIM, it will result in out of bundle data charges at 26c/MB as the hs.vodafone.ie APN will not use the phone data bundle.

    If that SIM is a prepay SIM, another workaround is to go into the "Buy add-ons" section of the My Account and there will be a section at the bottom to buy a broadband add-on. You can buy the day pass for €3 and this will provide 500MB which will work with the hs.vodafone.ie APN and should be sufficient for a few speed tests. A speed of about 40Mbps down / 10Mbps up with Speedtest.net will typically consume about 100MB for the test.


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    #40
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi editorsean
    Thank you for your reply, I have been reading some of your articles and they are an interesting read.
    Do i need any other info such as username,password, dial number, etc for the manual set up ?

    Also i was led to believe Vodafone don't do PAYG 4g SIM only as i was going to get new sim and new number and use for testing.and they don't do MBB 4g PAYG SIM only.
    Is this the case.?

    With my set up i have LOS with Three, vodafone and Meteor masts.

    With three on AYCE I get a 3g signal with 68% -78% signal with between 2Mbps to 16Mbps and not steady. I put the router in front room with its own paddle aerials I get 4g with 48% - 54% signal and between 0.8Mps and 8Mbps usually around 2 Mbps but ping is weak and I need a good ping to run my Sat Box. (three maps say no 4g coverage in my area)

    With Vodafone 3G sim (I borrowed off my Ma and is not 4g enabled and she wants to leave it the way it is as she is happy with it) I get a 3g signal with 68% -78% signal with between 4Mbps to 12Mbps very steady with external antennas and steady low ping.
    The sitecom map viewer site states that this vodafone mast is LTE so I reckon if it is I should get some impressive speeds on their 4g network (if I can Pick it up).
    I don,t want to sign up to an 18 month contract to find I have no 4G. I can get 4g with a borrowed mobile phone in the back garden and not in the house.
    Any input and advise to this would be great..
    Regards
    BK


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    #41
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    The username/password fields can be left blank. If it needs a dial-up #, put in *99#

    Vodafone uses the same prepay SIM for both phone and routers. When you register for My Vodafone, it will ask if you will be placing the SIM in a phone or router. The main difference is how the add-ons are presented, e.g. if the phone option is chosen, it shows the phone add-ons at the top of the page and the mobile broadband add-ons are shown at the bottom of the page.

    4G is usually enabled on the account a day after its first use, although I've heard a few people had to call Vodafone to enable 4G, including a friend who also recently picked up a Vodafone SIM to test Vodafone's performance. It's only in the past year that they started offering 4G for prepay mobile broadband use. Previously they only activated 4G when on the €20 5GB top-up plan (which consumes €10 of the top-up credit).

    If you plan getting a prepay SIM, they charge €10 for the prepay SIM and their add-ons are 500MB for 1 day (€3), 2GB for 7 days (€10) and 7.5GB for 30 days (€20). When you register for My Vodafone, they give €10 free credit (basically compensates for the SIM cost.)

    I would also suggest giving Meteor a try. Their mobile broadband SIM costs €1 when ordered from the website (not sure about the shop) and comes with €3 of free credit, enough for 150MB out-of-bundle usage. This should be sufficient to see if you get a 4G signal and enough for some ping tests.


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    #42
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi editorsean
    Been testing three AYCE at the weekend with the DLink router and external Antennas and been getting between 3 - 10Mbps with the majority of that 3Mps at peak (this was after changing the settings to manual and entering their APN) . I was able to stream a movie with this no problem. Which is not bad considering at the min I have Vodafone fixed line broadband with 1.1 to Max 1.6 download.
    Then last night threes AYCE dropped to 0.6Mbps (All night), it was unusable even the Sat Box froze and this needs very little as it is fed from the dish.
    Done a speed test this morning with testmynet and I got 18 down and 4 up (WEIRD).
    At the Min I use about 54GB a month with Vodafone on an unlimited package at 1.6 max download,(This is kids watching youtube,movies,play station and I would watch a couple of movies weekly and regular internet browsing).
    In your opinion would Vodafones 150GB a month plan be sufficient on a 4G connection or do you think I could be in fear of exceeding 150GB with everything now coming in HD on the 4G connection.
    Regards
    BK


    Just one more question for you editorsean, I have the same set up with the antennas, what distance do you recommend to have the antennas apart, I have mine about 50cm apart ?
    Cheers


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    #43
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    "Then last night threes AYCE dropped to 0.6Mbps (All night), it was unusable even the Sat Box froze and this needs very little as it is fed from the dish.
    Done a speed test this morning with testmynet and I got 18 down and 4 up (WEIRD)."

    Be interesting to investigate this weird drop.
    Three could be throttling you but seems unlikely they would drop it to 0.6 mpbs.

    Possibly a problem with your aerial setup. I'm no expert but a man what knows tells me if your aerial is too close to a wall you could get wet reflections. He recommends 3/8M distance.

    Just a thought.


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    #44
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi paddy19

    Aerial is two high gain directional YAGI . They are on a Mast about 2.5 M above the eve gutter with direct LOS of Three mast with nothing in the way. The Mast is 9Km away and I can see it clearly.
    Also last night when the bandwidth dropped the Antenna signal was showing between 70 & 78% never dropping below 70% and this was still the case this morning when it was at 18Mps.
    Maybe just congestion on the Three network.


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    #45
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Hi Brian,
    Another good theory bites the dust!

    How do you measure bandwidth?

    I'm not sure if Meteor is an option for you, if it is defo worth trying from a financial point of view.

    Prepay 4G 50Gb, €30, 180 day to use.

    I'm using it and it and it is class.


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    #46
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    I measured the bandwidth with testmynet.com .
    Meteor have a mast beside three but sitecom reg states that it is only 3G.
    But I will test it.
    50Gb a month probably would not be enough so it would mean topping up by 30 euro before month is up which in theory means 60 euro for a 100GB where Vodafone do 150GB a moth for 60 euro and I think this will be 4G but have not tested yet.
    At the Min I use about 54GB a month with Vodafone on an unlimited package at 1.6 max download,(This is kids watching youtube,movies,play station and I would watch a couple of movies weekly and regular internet browsing).
    In your opinion would Vodafones 150GB a month plan be sufficient on a 4G connection or do you think I could be in fear of exceeding 150GB with everything now coming in HD on the 4G connection.?


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    #47
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    If most of that 54GB usage consists of YouTube / video streaming, there is a high risk that you'll overrun Vodafone's 150GB allowance.

    I would still suggest doing a test run with a Meteor Broadband prepay SIM. Do a speed test in the evening before topping up to make sure you get a decent speed, e.g. 8Mbps or higher. 6Mbps and higher is generally sufficient for 1080p streaming on YouTube.

    If the Meteor speed is fine, top it up by €30, then buy the 50GB add-on. Switch off your DSL router and connect everyone to your mobile router. Make a note of the date and see how long the 50GB lasts before you get the "Out of credit" webpage.

    If the 50GB lasts 2 full weeks or longer, you should be fine with the Vodafone 150GB package, although I would recommend doing periodic usage checks such as once a week or daily if you're approaching the limit.

    However, if the 50GB is gone within two weeks, then you will need to keep a close eye on your usage with Vodafone and possibly have to limit their online usage.

    If you can afford it, another option would be to keep your DSL connection and have your kids devices connected to it and use Meteor or a cheaper Vodafone mobile broadband plan for content you would like to watch in HD or where you temporarily need faster speed.


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    #48
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    "50Gb a month probably would not be enough so it would mean topping up by 30 euro before month is up which in theory means 60 euro for a 100GB where Vodafone do 150GB a month for 60 euro"

    This may be academic if the Meteor mast is only 3G but here goes.
    The Meteor 50GB deal is unusual in that it is valid for 180 days.

    I assume the Vodafone is a straight monthly charge.

    So if you use 54GB a month 54*12 = 648GB per year.
    That's 13 top-ups at €50 = €630 per year.
    Vodafone is 12*€60 = €720 per year.

    The real advantage of Meteor, apart from the €90 saving, is no contract since it is prepay and there is no BS charge per Mb if you go over the limit.


    PS can you provide a link to the Vodafone 150GB a month for 60 euro offer.
    I can't find it on the site or on Switcher?


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    #49
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    I assume that 13 top-ups line should be €30 each, which would work out at €390 for the 648GB. ;)

    The Vodafone 150GB plan is available in store, which I've seen in their printed in-store leaflet for mobile broadband. It can also be got by ordering the €50/month contract online and then upgrading to the €60 150GB monthly plan. I'm not sure if this can be done in My Vodafone or if one must contact Vodafone to do that.


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    #50
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Yes editorsean,
    your right, it is €390.
    I got my €50 and €30s mixed up.

    Apologies for the confusion.


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    #51
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    https://www.vodafone.ie/terms/bill-pay/#redultraplus

    https://community.vodafone.ie/t5/Mobile-Broadband/Does-the-MBB-plan-quot-Red-Ultra-Plus-quot-exist-150GB-for-60/td-p/203506

    Hi paddy
    Check out both links above.

    Thanks lads for the advise, I will give the option with meteor a go first and see what the signal and speed is like before I try Vodafone.
    Three last night between 2-6Mps, this morning 24Mbps (Crazy)//

    Editorsean how far apart do you have your antennas,?
    Mine is about 50cm, one horizontal and the other vertical at 90 degrees of each other and i am about 9km from mast.
    Is there any proven facts on the distance ?
    Also I unattached one of the antennas last night and the signal dropped to 6% and with the other one in and that one out it went back up to 74%. would this make any difference with 3G ??
    Will have to go back up on Saturday and align them in properly adjusting with only one attached at a time..
    Regards
    BK


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    #52
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    I have mine roughly 2m (6 feet) apart mainly because I have one mounted on a pole previously used by a fixed wireless service I cancelled a year ago. They can placed on the same pole, although I recommend keeping at least 30cm / foot apart. Some 4G antennas come with the horizontal and vertical elements inside a single unit (e.g. some Poynting brand antennas), which have very little septation internally.

    I'm surprised at the massive signal difference between the two antennas as it seems like one has a break in the cable / connection. First try aiming the one with the weak signal only connected. If it does not improve, try rotating the polarity of that antenna by 90 degrees temporarily to see whether the antenna has an issue. 3G will also work fine with a single antenna, but will lose up to half the speed as it uses the second antenna for diversity. For example, I get a fairly steady 10Mbps on Meteor 3G with both antennas connected, but this drops to 6Mbps with just one antenna connected.

    I also get a massive variation in the Three speed here, hitting over 40Mbps in the day and occasionally dipping below 1Mbps around 10pm. For example, when I tried streaming YouTube in the evenings, it was dropping to 240p as shown in this post, yet had no problem playing 1080p @ 60fps over Meteor 3G once I swapped the SIM cards.


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    #53
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    I have Sim on the way from meteor that I ordered through the online chat and the girl i was talking to said there is no free credit with the Sim.
    You seem to get a pretty good signal with the antennas 2m apart.
    How far are you from the mast??


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    #54
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi editorsean
    I hit a set back last night when testing the antennas.
    When either external antenna is connected to the left connector on the router I get 70% signal but when connected to the right connector on the router I get 0%. (This test is done with only one connected at a time leaving the other not connected)
    The router is a D Link 921.
    I have tried searching online for a fix to no avail.
    any help on this one would be great??
    Regards
    BK


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    #55
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    It's quite possible the D-Link uses only the left antenna port for network searches and handshaking with the network and the second antenna port for MIMO / diversity. So it is quite likely the right antenna port is working, but requires the left antenna port to be attached before it makes use of the right port.

    One way to test would be to run several speed tests early in the morning with the left antenna attached and then several more speed tests with both antenna leads attached. The test results with both antennas attached should be noticeably higher, although this may difficult to tell with Three's erratic speeds.


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    #56
    paddy19
    Registered Users Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭paddy19


    I wonder is it related to the auto switch between 3g and 4g.

    Manual page 20
    "Choose whether the DWR-921 should only use 4G networks,
    3G networks, or use Auto Mode to automatically select a
    network."


    Interesting that another 921 user has something like the same problem.
    Unfortunately no answer.


    http://superuser.com/questions/1126216/does-my-d-link-dwr-921-router-use-both-antennas-for-an-lte-connection

    "I just purchased a D-Link DWR 921 router, which has a slot for a SIM card.

    This is related to the internet speed/LTE reception, not the wireless (wifi).

    It has two detachable antennas, and I discovered that if I leave the right antenna, it has almost the same speed (via an internet speedtest) as with both antennas;

    Also, if leave only the left antenna, the speed is really slow, and the upload is almost 0Kb.

    Is this a matter of firmware (no luck there, I just upgraded to the latest), is it faulty, or is it really only needing one antenna, and why?"


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    #57
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    I tried auto and manual and had seen that link with no reply.
    I will have to do some more testing with antennas connected and not connected.
    There does not seem to be any info out there regarding this.
    I have posted on other forums with no replies. hopefully it is was editorsean said.
    Will be testing Meteor tomorrow maybe that will tell a tale.
    Thanks for the input !!!!!


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    #58
    briankell74
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭briankell74


    Hi
    I tested this morning the 3G connection on three and with ookla I was getting 22Mps on several tests and with testmynet I was getting 11Mbps on several tests.
    I then disconnected the antenna which shows no connection and the speeds were the exact same no change.
    Is this because it is 3G ???
    I will bring the router in to town at the weekend where there is a strong 4G signal and test it, so by right the router should not work in 4G only if there is only one sma connector working as 4G needs two antennas to work. Or if i disconnect the antenna it should drop off.
    Would this be correct ??


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    #59
    editorsean
    Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    I'm surprised there was no change in speed in 3G with one antenna disconnected. On the other hand, 11Mbps sustained is plenty for 1080p @ 60FPS on YouTube, so hopefully it keeps near that speed in the evening time.

    The 22Mbps speed Ookla reported seems to indicate that you are working on both antenna connections, even if it means the detached port is picking up a weak but usable signal with one antenna lead detached. 12Mbps to 14Mbps is typically the peak I see with a 21Mbps modem even with Ookla such as most 3G-only sticks that only have a single antenna connection.

    4G will work with a single antenna connected, but the throughput is cut in half.


  • Options
    #60
    2016
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭2016


    Alter-Ego wrote: »
    I am in the same situation as you, no LOS to a 3 LTE mast. I purchased a pair of these: http://www.dipol.ie/cellular-systems/gsm-3g-lte-antennas/lte/atk-log-alp-lte-mimo-2x2-antenna-800-3000mhz-10m-cables-sma-plug.html based on the advice of Editorsean on this thread:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675233

    I pointed them in the general direction of the mast and am now getting average close to 20Mbps, when I was previously only getting 5-6mb with the modem outdoors at ground level.


    How does one make a purchase on that frickin site? All they give me are their bank details.


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    #61
    Alter-Ego
    Registered Users Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭Alter-Ego


    2016 wrote: »
    How does one make a purchase on that frickin site? All they give me are their bank details.
    Email them with what you want, and they'll send you a PayPal invoice.


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