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11-03-2019, 21:50   #16
4ensic15
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And if she fails, be down many more tens of thousands from the process.
Win some, lose some.
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11-03-2019, 21:55   #17
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Any years for which you can prove it was the owners PPR can be discounted. However, if they owned other properties at the time that they will later need to claim as their PPR - just don't. CGT liabilities could be generated.
I'm not sure about her owning another property at the time, I don't want to give too much information about her, but I think she became a named owner on another property for a while. I don't really know the ins and outs of that.


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She could challenge the constitutionality of the penalty. If she succeeds it would only mean paying €800
Thanks, I will mention it to her, but I'd guess she'll find a way to pay it, as that doesn't seem all that straightforward for her to do.
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11-03-2019, 21:56   #18
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Contact Eirgrid and they can tell you who was billed during those years for the electricity. That'll knock a few quid off the top for each year you can produce a bill with the occupiers (your's, your wife) name on it

If the property was vacant most of the time you could argue for a exception. If the bills were still in the occupiers name then all well and good.

By the sounds of your description, you'd be exempt from some of the years. The earlier ones are the more expensive. 2009 alone is €2K so work from there and see what you can cut down.

Worst comes to the worst a good solicitor will pay it out of the proceeds of the sale so you don't have to come up with it upfront. The other party just has to accept the undertaking which any decent solicitor would.

The charges for 2009 are set to expire in March 2021 and every year after that if you want to hold on till then but that's your call as you might loose more than €7K.

And forget about legal challenge. The fine is almost certainly unsound but you're up against the state and they will always have deeper pockets.

Last edited by Coyler; 11-03-2019 at 22:00.
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11-03-2019, 21:56   #19
Suckit
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And if she fails, be down many more tens of thousands from the process. And have an unsellable house for years.
Useful suggestions are what were wanted I think!
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Win some, lose some.



Ahh.. Doubt she'll go for that
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11-03-2019, 22:44   #20
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Section 7 of the Local Government (Charges) Act 2009 provides that if the property is sold without paying off outstanding charges, the new owner could be liable for the outstanding charges. Any such liability would end 12 years after the charge was due.

this is from Citizens info - not sure when liability ends - 2025 ?

Last edited by janedoe007; 11-03-2019 at 22:49. Reason: j
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12-03-2019, 09:47   #21
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It's 12 years from the due date of that year. So March 2021 for 2009, March 2022 for 2010 and so on.
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12-03-2019, 10:40   #22
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Probably worth reminding those who have forgotten that the NPPR was the brainchild of the Green Party's loathsome ex-leader John Gormless. (And to think that I once voted for Trevor Sargent! )
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12-03-2019, 10:48   #23
4ensic15
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It's 12 years from the due date of that year. So March 2021 for 2009, March 2022 for 2010 and so on.
Is it not the original penalties with a cap of €7,200 so if it was owned for the 4 years the €7,200 will be owed until 2025 regardless?
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12-03-2019, 11:48   #24
ted1
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I wasn't trying to be smart saying €800.
Your post says otherwise:

“so she pointed out the obvious, which is that, that totals to €800.“
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12-03-2019, 13:23   #25
Askthe EA
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Contact Eirgrid and they can tell you who was billed during those years for the electricity. T
Doubt that. GDPR.
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12-03-2019, 14:00   #26
Coyler
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Probably worth reminding those who have forgotten that the NPPR was the brainchild of the Green Party's loathsome ex-leader John Gormless. (And to think that I once voted for Trevor Sargent! )
The charge was. I'll think you'll find that the fine was Noonan's brain child but I don't blame you thinking otherwise. FG not entirely keen to stand over it now.
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12-03-2019, 14:25   #27
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Thanks everyone, some great advice here (I don't have any dealings in property, so any advice seems good to me), I passed it on to her and hopefully she can get a clearer understanding of what's in front of her. I think it was just the unexpected notice more than anything. At a guess, I'd say she will probably just go with the solicitor option and paying it off the proceeds of the sale, and probably try to discount any of the time that nobody lived there, or she did.
Thanks again.

Last edited by Suckit; 12-03-2019 at 14:41.
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12-03-2019, 14:39   #28
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The charges for NPPR are broke down below. They total €7230
2009 - €2070
2010 - €1830
2011 - €1470
2012 - €1110
2013 - €750

NPPR was a self declaration charge and there was a huge amount of advertising at the time so the excuse that you didn't know will not wash. As far as taking legal action on this I can guarantee you that it is a complete waste of time and money.

You only ability to get out of any charges would be through a cert of exemption. Did your friend live at the property on any of the liability dates? If so a sworn declaration to confirm same witnessed by solicitor along with property folio would mean you can waive the charges for that year.

Edit:
Liability dates were 31st July 09, 31st March 10&11&12&13
Feel free to PM me with any questions as I used to work in NPPR a few years ago

Last edited by daddy pig; 12-03-2019 at 14:41. Reason: additional info
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12-03-2019, 16:33   #29
iluvfatfrogs
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The charges for NPPR are broke down below. They total €7230
2009 - €2070
2010 - €1830
2011 - €1470
2012 - €1110
2013 - €750

NPPR was a self declaration charge and there was a huge amount of advertising at the time so the excuse that you didn't know will not wash. As far as taking legal action on this I can guarantee you that it is a complete waste of time and money.

You only ability to get out of any charges would be through a cert of exemption. Did your friend live at the property on any of the liability dates? If so a sworn declaration to confirm same witnessed by solicitor along with property folio would mean you can waive the charges for that year.

Edit:
Liability dates were 31st July 09, 31st March 10&11&12&13
Feel free to PM me with any questions as I used to work in NPPR a few years ago
If the property was held was a trading asset for a self employed builder, is there any from of relief / exemption do you know?
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12-03-2019, 16:38   #30
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The charge was. I'll think you'll find that the fine was Noonan's brain child but I don't blame you thinking otherwise. FG not entirely keen to stand over it now.
Yep, as I wrote, the NPPR was ex Green Party leader John Gormley's brainchild.

The fine for non-payment was introduced by the then Minister for Environment and Local Government, Phil Hogan.

Now, wipe that rabid foam off your mouth, make your self a nice mug of tea and stop being nasty about cuddly Mick Noonan!
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