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Campaign to repeal the blasphemy law

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  • 13-09-2018 8:23am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭


    There will be a public meeting at 3 pm this Saturday, 15th Sept, in Buswells Hotel Dublin, to shape the campaign for a Yes vote to repeal the blasphemy law from the constitution.

    There will be a referendum on 26 October (along with the Presidential election) in which we can vote to repeal this anachronistic offence.

    We support the right to freedom of religion or belief, the right to freedom of speech, and the separation of church and State. The Irish blasphemy law infringes all of these principles. It has no place in a modern democratic republic.

    Our blasphemy law is harmful. In Ireland, it has caused media outlets to self-censor themselves. Globally, it has emboldened States with more authoritarian blasphemy laws, who have cited the Irish law at the UN to support theirs.

    Please attend this public meeting on Saturday where you can help to shape the campaign to repeal this law. We will also hold other public meetings around the country, along with information tables, leaflets, canvasses, and a media campaign.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    I will be voting to repeal obviously, but I don't know which is worse, the blasphemy law, or the unwritten "cannot criticize Islam" law. Our media outlets self sensor themselves against that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,015 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Didn't take long for the whataboutery to start.

    There is no future for Boards as long as it stays on the complete toss that is the Vanilla "platform", we've given those Canadian twats far more chances than they deserve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,458 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I will vote to repeal this of course.
    Agree with the above point, there should be a replacement stating that any and all religions are expressly open for rational criticism. Including Islam


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ELM327 wrote: »
    there should be a replacement stating that any and all religions are expressly open for rational criticism. Including Islam
    disagree. the constitution should be silent on the matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,458 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    disagree. the constitution should be silent on the matter.
    Silence is better than prohibition of course.
    If something is not prohibited then it's permitted.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If something is not prohibited then it's permitted.
    the constitution is just the first layer, of course. this is not the first - or last - issue which should be taken out of the constitution and dealt with using legislation where required or sensible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,458 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    the constitution is just the first layer, of course. this is not the first - or last - issue which should be taken out of the constitution and dealt with using legislation where required or sensible.
    Agreed.
    At this stage it would have been easier to just write a new constitution and have a referendum to scrap the old one and replace en masse.
    It's a far way from the '37 council of bishops we are now


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know where you're coming from on that, but can you imagine the committees, focus groups, public consultation, research, you name it, we'd have to go through for the proposed constitution to be shot down in the end?
    the general reaction from joe soap would be that they would not be willing to vote in a constitution they see as flawed - and everyone would find something they'd consider a flaw.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    We need to completely rewrite the Constitution, it's a prayerbook


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    At the opening meeting yesterday of the campaign to remove the blasphemy law, I outlined the history of the law and why it is important to vote yes to remove it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭Muppet Man


    At the opening meeting yesterday of the campaign to remove the blasphemy law, I outlined the history of the law and why it is important to vote yes to remove it.]

    Thx Michael, your first argument on self censorship reminds me of the first post here in our own joke thread...

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057062433/1/#post87043081

    Keep up the good work.

    Muppet man


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I will be voting to repeal obviously, but I don't know which is worse, the blasphemy law, or the unwritten "cannot criticize Islam" law. Our media outlets self sensor themselves against that too.

    Easy. One is real while the other is just today's right wing fetishisation of victimhood.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Easy. One is real while the other is just today's right wing fetishisation of victimhood.

    Im not sure, would you stand on a milk crate with a megaphone in the middle of temple bar screaming about everything wrong with Islam? You would be dragged off kicking by the guards, if on the other hand your subject was Christianity / Catholic you would be left alone


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Im not sure, would you stand on a milk crate with a megaphone in the middle of temple bar screaming about everything wrong with Islam? You would be dragged off kicking by the guards, if on the other hand your subject was Christianity / Catholic you would be left alone

    This is just nonsense to be honest. There have been plenty of far right anti-Muslim marches and the police have facilitated them, not prohibited them.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    It is interesting that Mattie McGrath supported the blasphemy referendum during yesterday’s Dail debate.

    Here are his reasons.

    It is worth familiarising ourselves with them for responding to conservative concerns.

    I am happy to speak on this Bill. I acknowledge that the issue of removing the offence of blasphemy is a source of deep concern for a very significant proportion of the population. I share those people's view that respect for authentically held religious values has been on the decline for decades. Anti-Catholic rhetoric in particular is rampant. Indeed, some have even described such views as the last acceptable public prejudice. That said, I support the Government's Bill to repeal the blasphemy clause from the Constitution. As Our Lord said: "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's”.

    Ever since the 1996 Constitution Review Group found that the contents of the offence of blasphemy "are totally unclear and are potentially at variance with guarantees of free speech and freedom of conscience in a pluralistic society", the end has been coming for this particular clause in Article 40.6.1o. The issue also received a substantial and detailed analysis in the sixth report of the Constitutional Convention, which was established by the then Government in 2012. As I understand it, however, the convention voted in favour of including a new constitutional provision against religious hatred, with 53% of members in favour, 38% against and 9% undecided.

    I am aware that many people will see the position I am taking as some kind of concession to those who want to remove even the mention of God or the sacred from our culture and society. That is emphatically not the case. I simply hold the view that it is not tenable for the State to involve itself in the making of theological judgments, much less enforce specific theological or philosophical judgments by any one particular creed or church. I believe in the separation of church and state. I do not believe, however, that that separation should become a division, which some people would like it to be. The church has a vital role to play in our society and it works effectively in a spirit of collaboration with the State on many issues. That role needs to be respected and protected. It is not appropriate for the State to act as the guard dog of any particular church. Such a position harms both church and State, an outcome that is in no one's interests. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Im not sure, would you stand on a milk crate with a megaphone in the middle of temple bar screaming about everything wrong with Islam? You would be dragged off kicking by the guards, if on the other hand your subject was Christianity / Catholic you would be left alone
    Idle, paranoid and completely inaccurate speculation - as you well know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    Im not sure, would you stand on a milk crate with a megaphone in the middle of temple bar screaming about everything wrong with Islam? You would be dragged off kicking by the guards, if on the other hand your subject was Christianity / Catholic you would be left alone

    If you stood on a milk crate with a megaphone in the middle of temple bar screaming about anything, the police would stop you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    This is just nonsense to be honest. There have been plenty of far right anti-Muslim marches and the police have facilitated them, not prohibited them.
    Can you give examples?
    A quick Google search returns the opposite, though in this case Google may not be entirely impartial.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    This is just nonsense to be honest. There have been plenty of far right anti-Muslim marches and the police have facilitated them, not prohibited them.

    Plenty? I have never ever seen even one. Would you be able to back up your claim that there have been "plenty" or anti-muslim marches in this country? I never mentioned far right by the way.
    robindch wrote: »
    Idle, paranoid and completely inaccurate speculation - as you well know.

    As far as I know, no person would be able to criticize Islam in this country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭Michael Nugent


    As far as I know, no person would be able to criticize Islam in this country.

    I regularly criticise Islam (and other religions) while also working with Muslims as people to protect their human rights.

    For examples, feel free to go to my website and use the search box to search for the word Islam.

    However, mainstream media outlets do self-censor themselves with regard to statements that they fear might be considered blasphemous.

    In my experience, this self-censorship spans all religions. Mainstream media outlets generally just don't want to get involved.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,333 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    recedite wrote: »
    Can you give examples?
    A quick Google search returns the opposite, though in this case Google may not be entirely impartial.

    I can have a look once I see proof for the assertion that Islam can't be criticised.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    I can have a look once I see proof for the assertion that Islam can't be criticised.


    AH the old prove a negative argument (I'm just being humorous)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    I regularly criticise Islam (and other religions) while also working with Muslims as people to protect their human rights.

    For examples, feel free to go to my website and use the search box to search for the word Islam.


    Thanks ill look into that now.

    However, mainstream media outlets do self-censor themselves with regard to statements that they fear might be considered blasphemous.

    In my experience, this self-censorship spans all religions. Mainstream media outlets generally just don't want to get involved.


    I'm all for removing blasphemy from the constitution but I wonder, will that make the media relax? Will the start to (rightly) criticize religions when necessary? Or will they feel free to criticize some and leave others untouched?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    robindch wrote: »
    Idle, paranoid and completely inaccurate speculation - as you well know.


    In your opinion, would I be free to start a thread in After Hours, criticizing Islam?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    In your opinion, would I be free to start a thread in After Hours, criticizing Islam?

    Any reason to think you wouldn't? No shortage of taking the mickey out of Allah and friends on the funnies thread here so couldn't see it being an issue on AH.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,015 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    As far as I know, no person would be able to criticize Islam in this country.

    Well, in fairness that's not a statement of fact, it's a statement about what you know :)

    There is no future for Boards as long as it stays on the complete toss that is the Vanilla "platform", we've given those Canadian twats far more chances than they deserve.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    smacl wrote: »
    Any reason to think you wouldn't? No shortage of taking the mickey out of Allah and friends on the funnies thread here so couldn't see it being an issue on AH.


    As discussed on this thread, the media are afraid to do it, I seemingly wrongly thought Boards would be afraid to host such content. Perhaps I will give it a try...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    As discussed on this thread, the media are afraid to do it, I seemingly wrongly thought Boards would be afraid to host such content. Perhaps I will give it a try...

    It is something that is often asserted but rarely well supported. From my experience it is mostly empty rhetoric from anti-immigration conservatives and right w(h)ingers. Pretty much every poster on this board denigrates Islam as leading the poll as the most misogynistic and homophobic religion out there, and the appalling human rights record for places like Saudi Arabia which relate to Islam. IMHO, this doesn't make muslims bad people any more than Catholicism makes catholics bad people, merely that the religion and its hierarchy are highly dubious. I'm of the opinion that we should be highly critical of it on that basis. YMMV.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    smacl wrote: »
    Any reason to think you wouldn't? No shortage of taking the mickey out of Allah and friends on the funnies thread here so couldn't see it being an issue on AH.


    I started a thread in after hours about funny Muhammad pics, it was locked within half an hour, so I have every reason to think so now...


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,719 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    I started a thread in after hours about funny Muhammad pics, it was locked within half an hour, so I have every reason to think so now...

    Link please? Don't see it either in AH or in the threads started by you in your profile.


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