Everest

wrestlemaniac · 16-05-2019 10:38pm #1

Hoping for good news. Missing from the descent shortly after reaching the summit.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/trinity-professor-missing-on-everest-after-scaling-summit-1.3894661%3fmode=amp

sk8erboii · 16-05-2019 10:44pm

"he reportedly fell from an altitude of 8,300 metres."

RIP.

Wibbs · 16-05-2019 10:54pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

"he reportedly fell from an altitude of 8,300 metres."

RIP.

My thoughts too Sk8, but few enough bits on that mountain are sheer drops. It's more a hard slog against a lack of oxygen above the dead zone. If near the summit were at say 2000 metres it wouldn't be a particularly difficult climb for experienced climbers. So he may have not fallen very far and may be found alive, or at least that's the hope. It has happened before. It dwindles with the hours that pass though.

The problem with that damned mountain is that it attracts too many of the adventurers and not so experienced. And the scary weather shifts and operating above the dead zone as far as oxygen goes means even the very best are on borrowed time(you're essentially dying from hypoxia until you get back down) it claims so many lives.

branie2 · 16-05-2019 10:59pm

I hope he's found soon

The Rape of Lucretia · 16-05-2019 11:14pm

Its a strange fascination. The odds of not getting down alive are 1 in 27. The very high risk is what drives the desire to try to defy it. Sad for those close to the person who draws the short straw, but they know the risks very well.

riffmongous · 16-05-2019 11:27pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Its a strange fascination. The odds of getting down alive are only 1 in 27. The very high risk is what drives the desire to try to defy it. Sad for those close to the person who draws the short straw, but they know the risks very well.

Other way round, those are the odds of not coming down alive

Timberrrrrrrr · 16-05-2019 11:39pm

Everyone who died on Everest was once a highly motivated person

ILoveYourVibes · 16-05-2019 11:40pm

I hope he is found. And if he died he died doing what he loved.

17-05-2019 2:31am

Everest and Nepal in general have had many climbing disasters in recent years. At that altitude, it's highly unlikely he'll be found alive unfortunately. Only 500m below the summit.

maxsmum · 17-05-2019 8:01am

I remember watching the movie Everest and telling my husband I'd divorce him if he decided wanted to climb it. I really feel terribly sorry for his family. I hope he is found alive. The period of worry not knowing where he is must be absolutely unbearable.

And no, I don't think people who commit suicide are selfish. That's not the issue here.

Tikki Wang Wang · 17-05-2019 8:03am

I think climbing Everest is an incredibly selfish act. Its like playing Russian roulette for adrenaline junkies. Sure there is a charity involved but run a marathon or walk the coast of Ireland or something won’t risk leaving your kid an orphan.

knucklehead6 · 17-05-2019 8:14am

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I think they have a point. They could raise money for charity by doing something considerably less dangerous.

Personally speaking I'd consider my responsibility to wife and children would trump anything else.

Everyone is different though, and I'm sure, or hope, they discussed things as a family first.

As for your last comment, unnecessary.

That's your opinion. As a matter of fact my responsibility to my partner and kids would also trump anything else.

But considering the chap spent last summer summiting Mt Denali in Alaska in preparation for the Everest climb, it's not like he woke up one morning over the winter and said "Y''know what, i think i'll climb Everest in May"

The Tetrarch · 17-05-2019 8:14am

From a Google search the typical cost of climbing Everest is $45,000.

Tom Mann Centuria · 17-05-2019 8:16am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

That's your opinion. As a matter of fact my responsibility to my partner and kids would also trump anything else.

But considering the chap spent last summer summiting Mt Denali in Alaska in preparation for the Everest climb, it's not like he woke up one morning over the winter and said "Y''know what, i think i'll climb Everest in May"

Well yes, that's my opinion, I don't post other people's opinions, or guess them like you did.

circadian · 17-05-2019 8:18am

Hope he's found but I doubt they will. Even if he's alive it'll be a near impossible mission to get off the mountain safely. Covering a few hundred metres takes a day up there, it's an extremely slow pace.

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 8:20am

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Didn't this happen a few years ago too to some Irish man. Wife and small children at home. I know it's sad, but what a selfish thing to do.

As a climber, I believe that this is far too simplistic a point of view to take. I would factor experience into the equation as a major contributor.

Climbing Everest with little to no experience at high altitude, but climbing because you simply want the prestige of being able to say you climbed the world's highest peak as a box-ticking exercise, could certainly be construed as being reckless/selfish, considering the risks involved.

Climbing Everest as an experienced climber, and not making it down would certainly lean more towards the unfortunate to extremely tragic end of the spectrum in my opinion.

There's nothing in any article I've read so far to persuade me either one way or the other in this case.

Paul_Mc1988 · 17-05-2019 8:26am

knucklehead6 wrote:

Some people want to live a life less ordinary, it appears Mr Lawless is one of them.

A very short less ordinary life where he doesn't get to see his kids grow up. I would pick my family over a high risk adrenalin rush anybday

batgoat · 17-05-2019 8:32am

mike_ie wrote: »

As a climber, I believe that this is far too simplistic a point of view to take. I would factor experience into the equation as a major contributor.

Climbing Everest with little to no experience at high altitude, but climbing because you simply want the prestige of being able to say you climbed the world's highest peak as a box-ticking exercise, could certainly be construed as being reckless/selfish, considering the risks involved.

Climbing Everest as an experienced climber, and not making it down would certainly lean more towards the unfortunate to extremely tragic end of the spectrum in my opinion.

There's nothing in any article I've read so far to persuade me either one way or the other in this case.

Yep, Into Thin Air was originally just supposed to be about tourist climbing and became a far darker analysis of it.. In terms of risky climbing for experienced people, Everest seems in general to be far safer than what the likes of Alex Honnold does with free climbing. (know it's different in terms of altitude issues.) Feel free to disagree as I'm limited knowledge wise.

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 8:36am

batgoat wrote: »

Everest seems in general to be far safer than what the likes of Alex Honnold does with free climbing. (know it's different in terms of altitude issues.) Feel free to disagree as I'm limited knowledge wise.

The best description I got of Everest was about two weeks ago, when I was speaking to a past summiter from Canada. "If you're interested in climbing 8000+ metre mountains, Everest is a great place to start."

Everest isn't a technically difficult mountain, which ironically, makes it more dangerous in many ways. The normal filters that apply to serious climbs (the ability to climb technically) aren't there.

batgoat · 17-05-2019 8:39am

mike_ie wrote: »

The best description I got of Everest was about two weeks ago, when I was speaking to a past summiter from Canada. "If you're interested in climbing 8000+ metre mountains, Everest is a great place to start."

Everest isn't a technically difficult mountain, which ironically, makes it more dangerous in many ways. The normal filters that apply to serious climbs (the ability to climb technically) aren't there.

In unrelated news, I'm due to do my first high altitude hike soon in Nepal... It's a hike and nowhere near height of Everest with no climbing. The climbing is something I'm just really poor at.

beauf · 17-05-2019 8:48am

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

A very short less ordinary life where he doesn't get to see his kids grow up. I would pick my family over a high risk adrenalin rush anybday

Everest is more like long distance marathon than an adrenaline rush. Climbing Everest which isn't very technically difficult, is more about endurance and strength of will and character. It's a rite of passage. It's about trying to do something extraordinary.

You are either driven to do these things or you are not. It's part of a person character.

Before being critical of another person's choices it would be wise to be informed about it.

https://irishsevensummits.com/stats-everest/

While it's tragic if he has died and our empathy goes to his family and friends. He was doing something extraordinary and difficult. Not because it's was easy or an adrenalin rush but because it was hard and a personal challenge.

Gwynplaine · 17-05-2019 8:48am

suicide_circus wrote: »

thats honestly disgraceful abuse of the charitable goodness in people. little more than a scam.

Exactly. The charity has to pay for it.
"Will you sponsor me to do some mad thing I want to do, the first 30k raised goes to to fund it. Anything above will go towards some hi-tech machine for a hospital"

Me - "why don't i just donate directly instead of funding your rush" chancer. "And then you get killed doing it and we're supposed to feel sorry for you?"
No chance, go home to your family.

Mickeroo · 17-05-2019 8:48am

Gwynplaine wrote: »

Didn't this happen a few years ago too to some Irish man. Wife and small children at home. I know it's sad, but what a selfish thing to do.

That was k2 not Everest. Much more dangerous mountain than Everest, less than 400 people have summited it and over 80 of them died on the way down.

Sugarlumps · 17-05-2019 8:58am

Poor man, awful way to go.

Everest has become a dumping ground. Bodies, oxygen tanks, tents, equipment strewn everywhere.

beauf · 17-05-2019 9:00am

suicide_circus wrote: »

thats honestly disgraceful abuse of the charitable goodness in people. little more than a scam.

You're basically sponsoring the person or event the charity aspect isn't it main purpose. If you want to give 100% to charity there are other ways to do that.

beauf · 17-05-2019 9:03am

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Poor man, awful way to go.

Everest has become a dumping ground. Bodies, oxygen tanks, tents, equipment strewn everywhere.

They have a new campaign to clean it up...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/05/02/mount-everest-polluted-tons-trash-nepal-clean-up-team-reports/3649409002/

_Brian · 17-05-2019 9:03am

It’s coded into human genes to explore, get to the top of the mountain, cross that sea, see what’s round the next corner.

Without that drive we would never have ventured out of Africa, explored the worlds oceans, gone into space, landed on the moon.

It’s sad what has happened but likely he does doing what he enjoyed in life.

wrestlemaniac · 17-05-2019 9:03am

Search postponed for the moment due to poor weather conditions out there.

beauf · 17-05-2019 9:06am

batgoat wrote: »

Yep, Into Thin Air was originally just supposed to be about tourist climbing and became a far darker analysis of it.. In terms of risky climbing for experienced people, Everest seems in general to be far safer than what the likes of Alex Honnold does with free climbing. (know it's different in terms of altitude issues.) Feel free to disagree as I'm limited knowledge wise.

It's a very interesting book. There was a TV documentary based around it also.

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 9:06am

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Everest has become a dumping ground. Bodies, oxygen tanks, tents, equipment strewn everywhere.

There's a clean-up taking place as we speak. I believe the plan is to remove 11 tons of waste from the mountain this season.

Wibbs · 17-05-2019 9:08am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

yes raising 25000 for charity... How selfish of him :rolleyes:

You're probably one of those who looks at suicide victims as selfish as well, aren't you?

Raising 25,000 quid for charity on an expedition that would cost about double that? I'm genuinely not having a go at the chap, of others like him, but too many of those who do stuff like this and those that support them have some oddball cognitive dissonance about such "charity" drives that often cost more to do than they raise. It's like a bigger version of middle class college kids spending an expensive week in the third world building houses for the quaint locals cluttering up their social media with pics of how great they are. Teary eyed selfie with a local urchin for the win. They'd be better served spending mammy and daddy's money on directly supporting local charities and local workers in such places.

Then again too much charity is a bloody scam when you actually break down the figures.

PokeHerKing · 17-05-2019 9:13am

Climbing Everest is nothing more than an ego stroke for bored westerners. Impossible to do without a local paving the way for you.

I feel very sorry for this guys family.

gozunda · 17-05-2019 9:17am

beauf wrote: »

Everest is more like long distance marathon than an adrenaline rush. Climbing Everest which isn't very technically difficult, is more about endurance and strength of will and character. It's a rite of passage. It's about trying to do something extraordinary.
You are either driven to do these things or you are not. It's part of a person character. Before being critical of another person's choices it would be wise to be informed about it.
https://irishsevensummits.com/stats-everest/While it's tragic if he has died and our empathy goes to his family and friends. He was doing something extraordinary and difficult. Not because it's was easy or an adrenalin rush but because it was hard and a personal challenge.

The problem with Everest is that at over 8000 metres, climbing to the top means traversing the area known as the death zone.

At over 8000 feet the death zone is marked by low oxygen levels, very low atmospheric pressure coupled with etreme weather and unpredictable conditions

https://www.summitpost.org/high-altitude-what-happens-to-the-human-body-in-the-death-zone/371306

Climbers can briefly go beyond this limit - but do so with a significant risk of killing or permantly injuring themselves

Most people should limit their exposure to altitudes such as these to the minimum amount possible, as the human body is slowly going through the process of dying.

Looks like the Chinese have now started to limit access whilst trying to clean up some of the pollution and remove those who have died on the mountain.

https://matadornetwork.com/read/china-restricting-access-everest-base/

My sympathy goes to the climbers family.

Mickeroo · 17-05-2019 9:20am

beauf wrote: »

It's a very interesting book. There was a TV documentary based around it also.

That film with Jake Gyllenhall called "Everest" from a couple of years back was also based on Into Thin Air.

Very good book, I never got around to reading the one written by Anatoli Boukreev called The Climb about the same day on the mountain (he was the Russian guide Krakauer was fairly critical of for not using bottled oxygen, his book was meant to be a bit of a counter to Into Thin Air).

Poor Uncle Tom · 17-05-2019 9:24am

Wibbs wrote: »

Raising 25,000 quid for charity on an expedition that would cost about double that? I'm genuinely not having a go at the chap, of others like him, but too many of those who do stuff like this and those that support them have some oddball cognitive dissonance about such "charity" drives that often cost more to do than they raise. It's like a bigger version of middle class college kids spending an expensive week in the third world building houses for the quaint locals cluttering up their social media with pics of how great they are. Teary eyed selfie with a local urchin for the win. They'd be better served spending mammy and daddy's money on directly supporting local charities and local workers in such places.

Then again too much charity is a bloody scam when you actually break down the figures.

A lot in here I'd like to thank twice.

recedite · 17-05-2019 9:25am

Its an unforgiving place. One slip-up and you are finished.
You can't just get on your mobile phone and call the mountain rescue. The mountain is already littered with corpses.

bodice ripper · 17-05-2019 9:26am

Mickeroo wrote:

Very good book, I never got around to reading the one written by Anatoli Boukreev called The Climb about the same day on the mountain (he was the Russian guide Krakauer was fairly critical of for not using bottled oxygen, his book was meant to be a bit of a counter to Into Thin Air).

It's OK. Into Thin Air was better.

17-05-2019 9:26am

Sherpa is a very good documentary. These lads make multiple trips back and forth - leaving oxygen bottles along the route, going ahead to setup tents, carrying all the bags & ladders etc. At huge risks to themselves. All so lazy foreigners can boast that they 'climbed' Everest.

Hoboo · 17-05-2019 9:30am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sherpa is a very good documentary. These lads make multiple trips back and forth - leaving oxygen bottles along the route, going ahead to setup tents, carrying all the bags & ladders etc. At huge risks to themselves. All so lazy foreigners can boast that they 'climbed' Everest.

And so they can make a living.

Sugarlumps · 17-05-2019 9:36am

mike_ie wrote: »

There's a clean-up taking place as we speak. I believe the plan is to remove 11 tons of waste from the mountain this season.

Wow, 11 tons....incredible.

CardinalJ · 17-05-2019 9:50am

A lot of people here making snap judgments about who was paying for their trip. In relation to the fund raising, they had plenty of sponsors so we dont know how much they have or have not raised.

I dont know Seamus Lawless, but I met him over the winter while out on a climb on Lugnaquila in Wicklow. A really nice interesting guy who was excited to go on this trip.

It's incredibly sad news for his family and for the team who were with him when this happened. Every now and then there is a miraculous rescue out there so fingers crossed for one here.

Neyite · 17-05-2019 10:02am

Wibbs wrote: »

Raising 25,000 quid for charity on an expedition that would cost about double that? I'm genuinely not having a go at the chap, of others like him, but too many of those who do stuff like this and those that support them have some oddball cognitive dissonance about such "charity" drives that often cost more to do than they raise. It's like a bigger version of middle class college kids spending an expensive week in the third world building houses for the quaint locals cluttering up their social media with pics of how great they are. Teary eyed selfie with a local urchin for the win. They'd be better served spending mammy and daddy's money on directly supporting local charities and local workers in such places.

Then again too much charity is a bloody scam when you actually break down the figures.

Fully agree. I've never understood why Gap-Year Ronan and Darren who have never lifted a brick get the job in developing countries over the local young men who you could teach and train to make a living out of construction for themselves. Surely that would be a better way of helping poor folk?

Orphanages are another one. In many countries, the reason children are placed in them is because of poverty. Most of them have parents and and extended family outside the institution that could look after them, given the right social supports. Institutions with a fortnightly rotation of volunteers are massively detrimental to child development and welfare. This site explains it better than I could. We can see now from the mother and baby homes here, the lifelong effects of that kind of segregation on a person institutions have. That's happening worldwide.

Charity is a very noble thing- if done right. These kinds of charity where it's all about personal accolades and the charity bit is a small afterthought to make it more palatable to beg others to fund your lifetime trip are not very noble at all.

I feel sorry for his wife and child and the rest of his family for what they must be going through.

kowloon · 17-05-2019 10:08am

Sugarlumps wrote: »

Wow, 11 tons....incredible.

I believe a large chunk of the fee you pay to even get onto the mountain is devoted to upkeep.

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 10:15am

kowloon wrote: »

I believe a large chunk of the fee you pay to even get onto the mountain is devoted to upkeep.

Sadly, not even close.

Climbing rules changed a few years ago though, in that every climber is expected to bring back 8kg of waste (not enforced). This is the first year that the ministry of tourism has offered a cash reward to sherpas who bring back waste from Everest Base Camp onwards.

kowloon · 17-05-2019 10:26am

mike_ie wrote: »

Sadly, not even close.

Climbing rules changed a few years ago though, in that every climber is expected to bring back 8kg of waste (not enforced). This is the first year that the ministry of tourism has offered a cash reward to sherpas who bring back waste from Everest Base Camp onwards.

So the upkeep of the mountain thing is just an excuse to pocket some cash? Colour me surprised if it is.

dealhunter1985 · 17-05-2019 10:30am

Wibbs wrote: »

Raising 25,000 quid for charity on an expedition that would cost about double that? I'm genuinely not having a go at the chap, of others like him, but too many of those who do stuff like this and those that support them have some oddball cognitive dissonance about such "charity" drives that often cost more to do than they raise. It's like a bigger version of middle class college kids spending an expensive week in the third world building houses for the quaint locals cluttering up their social media with pics of how great they are. Teary eyed selfie with a local urchin for the win. They'd be better served spending mammy and daddy's money on directly supporting local charities and local workers in such places.

Then again too much charity is a bloody scam when you actually break down the figures.

I guess its possible they could be funding the cost of the trip themselves and whatever is raised through the donations goes to the charity?

oh scratch that. I see it says on the twitter page 'hoping to raise money towards the expedition costs'.

98q76e12hrflnk · 17-05-2019 10:40am

_Brian wrote: »

It’s coded into human genes to explore, get to the top of the mountain, cross that sea, see what’s round the next corner.

Without that drive we would never have ventured out of Africa, explored the worlds oceans, gone into space, landed on the moon.

It’s sad what has happened but likely he does doing what he enjoyed in life.

LOL what?

Snow Garden · 17-05-2019 10:41am

CardinalJ wrote: »

A lot of people here making snap judgments about who was paying for their trip. In relation to the fund raising, they had plenty of sponsors so we dont know how much they have or have not raised.

I dont know Seamus Lawless, but I met him over the winter while out on a climb on Lugnaquila in Wicklow. A really nice interesting guy who was excited to go on this trip.

It's incredibly sad news for his family and for the team who were with him when this happened. Every now and then there is a miraculous rescue out there so fingers crossed for one here.

The Beck Weathers miracle story is almost unbelievable. It changed the rules for the Death Zone. So many people before that point had literally been 'left for dead' when there was actually a chance of saving them. It's a tough moral choice when you have summit fever. Weathers went on Hall's expedition covered on the Into Thin Air book.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/beck-weathers

I believe Lawless fell which means there is no hope. Finding the body will be an achievement. It's not a mountain anymore, its a graveyard.

batgoat · 17-05-2019 10:41am

mike_ie wrote: »

Sadly, not even close.

Climbing rules changed a few years ago though, in that every climber is expected to bring back 8kg of waste (not enforced). This is the first year that the ministry of tourism has offered a cash reward to sherpas who bring back waste from Everest Base Camp onwards.

You climbed it out of interest?

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 10:46am

batgoat wrote: »

You climbed it out of interest?

No, but I live relatively close by, and for that reason, I've climbed in the Himalayas every summer or two for the past ten years. Am here right now as it happens.

CardinalJ · 17-05-2019 10:46am

Snow Garden wrote:

The Beck Weathers miracle story is almost unbelievable. It changeg the rules for the Death Zone. Weathers went on Hall's expedition covered on the In Thin Air book.

Yea Beck Weathers' story is incredible.

Where Lawless fell is smooth mountain so Id guess he could have slid very far. There is a small chance he could be alive waiting to be found but its probably getting dark there now.

Everest

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