Drink driving-virtue signaling gone mad

Richard Bingham · 04-05-2019 11:13am

blackwhite wrote: »

If you’d four pints between 11pm-1am, then you’d be under the legal limit by 9am at the latest.

If I need to be on the road before noon then I’ll be very careful with what I consume the night before - funny how the vast majority of people can manage to do that

That's not true - you're just basing your comment on how your body metabolises alcohol but that's different for everyone.

City dwellers don't understand this issue at all. It's all very well to say "if you need to be on the road before noon" when you live in an urban area where you aren't forced to drive. If you live in a rural area, drinking 4 pints, when all things are considered, takes the best part of a full day out of your week because you cannot do anything without driving.

Richard Bingham · 04-05-2019 11:29am

John_Rambo wrote: »

Regarding the law? Keep flaunting it, keep drink driving, you’ll be caught or you’ll crash.

What are you ranting about now? I don't drink drive.

John_Rambo wrote: »

I didn’t say that. But you have to realise, when you move to a rural area you’re going to have to put up with the results!

Annoucement by John Rambo
Going forward rural dwellers are not permitted to have an opinion about the laws that govern the country. They just need to accept their lot!

John_Rambo wrote: »

Did you ever hear the phrase “you’re in the country now”?

No, I have never heard that phrase. Did you just make it up?

Admit it - you made a dog ignorant comment that I didn't need to live in the country because I'm not a farmer. You forgot that some professionals have to live in the country because farmers (who do have to live in the country) need all the services that city dwellers need.

Such ignorance.

City dwellers like you can make all the snide remarks you like about rural dwellers but don't forget who produces the juicy fillet steak (or if your a vegan the vegetables) you tuck into regularly in your high end restaurants in Dublin.

You remind me of some visiting Dubs who were amazed when they saw our cows being milked years ago. They said that their milk came from Super Valu.

Richard Bingham · 04-05-2019 11:35am

John_Rambo wrote: »

You don’t have public transport and cycling may not be an option because of bad drivers.

and...

John_Rambo wrote: »

I live and commute in Dublin. My observation is that cars cause huge tailbacks and choke up the roads causing chaos and disorder. I have the cop to realise that if every cyclist was in a car it would be worse.

I also have the stats that show cars kill and maim a lot more people the pushbikes do making them the true menace and cause of mayhem on the roads.

Seriously, which is it, you think that cyclists should stay off the roads because of bad drivers or you think that bad drivers should stay off the road.

Hold on, I get it, you think that it should be one way in de city and the other way in de country. Whatever suits you basically and the world can just row in with your preference.

John_Rambo · 04-05-2019 5:07pm

Richard Bingham wrote: »

What are you ranting about now? I don't drink drive.

Good stuff. No need for you to get so hot and bothered about the laws then!

Richard Bingham wrote: »

Annoucement by John Rambo
Going forward rural dwellers are not permitted to have an opinion about the laws that govern the country. They just need to accept their lot!

No. I didn't say that. Read my posts again.

Richard Bingham wrote: »

No, I have never heard that phrase. Did you just make it up?

It's a common phrase used by ruralites when there's a smell of slurry or silage. "You're in the country now" .

Richard Bingham wrote: »

Admit it - you made a dog ignorant comment that I didn't need to live in the country because I'm not a farmer. You forgot that some professionals have to live in the country because farmers (who do have to live in the country) need all the services that city dwellers need.

Lol, show me a farmer that needs all the services city dwellers need? Street lighting, footpaths, Light rail for moving livestock, bus services, metro etc... !! It's fairly obvious you don't know a lot about farming![/QUOTE]

Richard Bingham wrote: »

City dwellers like you can make all the snide remarks you like about rural dwellers but don't forget who produces the juicy fillet steak (or if your a vegan the vegetables) you tuck into regularly in your high end restaurants in Dublin.

You're not a farmer, you're not a producer. Don't pretend you are!

Richard Bingham wrote: »

You remind me of some visiting Dubs who were amazed when they saw our cows being milked years ago. They said that their milk came from Super Valu.

Yawn.... the good old "city people think milk is made in a factory" yarn, heard it before, still don't believe the bar stool spoof! I'm actually helping a friend out on her farm now!

Richard Bingham wrote: »

Seriously, which is it, you think that cyclists should stay off the roads because of bad drivers or you think that bad drivers should stay off the road.

Bad and drunk drivers off the road. Every time.

04-05-2019 5:36pm

Richard Bingham wrote: »

That's not true - you're just basing your comment on how your body metabolises alcohol but that's different for everyone.

City dwellers don't understand this issue at all. It's all very well to say "if you need to be on the road before noon" when you live in an urban area where you aren't forced to drive. If you live in a rural area, drinking 4 pints, when all things are considered, takes the best part of a full day out of your week because you cannot do anything without driving.

While I agree with a lot of your points you are wide of the mark thinking there is any risk of driving in the morning after 4 pints the evening before, you could have a few more and still be grand to drive.

Also I wouldn’t pay much heed to John Rambo, he is as anti rural as you will find in these parts.

Blueshoe · 04-05-2019 5:37pm

What about drug driving?
People losing their license days after taking their drug of choice

wonski · 04-05-2019 5:44pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

What about drug driving?
People losing their license days after taking their drug of choice

Those mobile draeger tests are not as accurate as some might think. So no, you are not going to fail it if you had a joint days before.

Reality is if you are using illegal drugs you are risking losing your license. And yes, even soft drugs like weed can and do influence the drivers reaction so drivers need to be aware they are risking it.

If you fail saliva test there is a good chance you took drugs very recently, not last weekend

Blueshoe · 04-05-2019 5:49pm

wonski wrote: »

Those mobile draeger tests are not as accurate as some might think. So no, you are not going to fail it if you had a joint days before.

Reality is if you are using illegal drugs you are risking losing your license. And yes, even soft drugs like weed can and do influence the drivers reaction so drivers need to be aware they are risking it.

If you fail saliva test there is a good chance you took drugs very recently, not last weekend

Independent testing of the Drager device says different. Gardai state a 4-6 hour detection time for thc at 10ng/ml . Independent testing puts it closer to 21 hours for an occasional smoker and 30 hours for a regular.

If you can get your hands on some weed that keeps someone stoned for nearly a day it must be some serious ****.

wonski · 04-05-2019 6:22pm

20 hours is far from days before.

In my experience they never detected anyone after 20 hours. Used them at work so had a chance to test it. I am not a regular smoker meself.

Can't comment on other drugs detection.

KikiLaRue · 04-05-2019 6:24pm

Richard Bingham wrote: »

That's not true - you're just basing your comment on how your body metabolises alcohol but that's different for everyone.

City dwellers don't understand this issue at all. It's all very well to say "if you need to be on the road before noon" when you live in an urban area where you aren't forced to drive. If you live in a rural area, drinking 4 pints, when all things are considered, takes the best part of a full day out of your week because you cannot do anything without driving.

I'm a city dweller originally from rural Galway.

It's not that hard to plan a social life and stay within the law:

Thursday night: 2-3 pints after work, lift home, under the limit by morning
Friday: Bottle of wine and a film at home, grand by morning
Saturday: Big night out, plenty of booze - taxi home, keep Sunday morning clear for a sleep in so you don't have to drive with a sore head

It's not rocket surgery.

Blueshoe · 04-05-2019 6:53pm

wonski wrote: »

20 hours is far from days before.

In my experience they never detected anyone after 20 hours. Used them at work so had a chance to test it. I am not a regular smoker meself.

Can't comment on other drugs detection.

What cut off did you use? That's the important bit

Kivaro · 04-05-2019 7:17pm

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I'm a city dweller originally from rural Galway.

It's not that hard to plan a social life and stay within the law:

Thursday night: 2-3 pints after work, lift home, under the limit by morning
Friday: Bottle of wine and a film at home, grand by morning
Saturday: Big night out, plenty of booze - taxi home, keep Sunday morning clear for a sleep in so you don't have to drive with a sore head

It's not rocket surgery.

?
Have you been drinking?

blackwhite · 04-05-2019 7:56pm

Richard Bingham wrote: »

That's not true - you're just basing your comment on how your body metabolises alcohol but that's different for everyone.

City dwellers don't understand this issue at all. It's all very well to say "if you need to be on the road before noon" when you live in an urban area where you aren't forced to drive. If you live in a rural area, drinking 4 pints, when all things are considered, takes the best part of a full day out of your week because you cannot do anything without driving.

City dwellers? I’m from rural Sligo - keep your generalisations to yourself - they’re about as useful as the rest of your contributions as well :rolleyes:

The body takes approximately 1 hour to process a unit of alcohol. 4 pints is 8 units. For someone who takes 50% longer than the average (which would be incredibly rare) that would still be just 12 hours. Assuming you drink faster than 2 pints an hour - you can count from when you started drinking - so that would be 12 hours from the start point - so 11am at the very latest if you drank 4 pints between 11pm-1am.
Funnily enough - the laws of science and time don’t suddenly change depending on whether you are in an urban area or not. The laws of common sense certainly seem to have missed wherever you live though.

There’s only one person on this thread who doesn’t understand things - you’re starting to make Danny Healy-Rae sound literate TBH

wonski · 04-05-2019 9:33pm

Blueshoe wrote: »

What cut off did you use? That's the important bit

I haven't recorded every single one. But if you fail it you really are stoned

Plopsu · 15-05-2019 10:34am

Anybody know if you have any recourse if you believe a breathalyser is wrong? Can you insist on a blood/urine test? Goy a breathalyser about a month ago and have discovered that mouthwash puts me over the limit for anything up to half an hour (and it's supposedly an alcohol free mouth wash). More surprising was the fact that toothpaste did the same (though just borderline and not for as long).

amcalester · 15-05-2019 10:40am

Don’t they do a second test at the station to confirm the result?

ArrBee · 15-05-2019 2:49pm

They must make sure that you have taken nothing in the mouth. (mouthwash, toothpaste, even a sip of water) for 30mins before they do the breath test for the type of reason you mention.
If they don't they are breaking with protocol and the test would be invalid.

Killinator · 15-05-2019 3:42pm

ArrBee wrote: »

They must make sure that you have taken nothing in the mouth. (mouthwash, toothpaste, even a sip of water) for 30mins before they do the breath test for the type of reason you mention.
If they don't they are breaking with protocol and the test would be invalid.

For the breath specimens at stations it's a 20 minute nil by mouth, not 30

Edit:
You may fail a roadside test because of mouthwash or toothpaste(though not massively likely) but unless you're consuming industrial levels then you won't fail the evidential specimen at station.

And no, once you provide the breath samples you provide them. If you want to contest them after that then you take it to court.
You may choose blood or urine before electing to choose breath. If you refuse any then it's an offence in itself carrying the same penalty as a fail anyway.
With blood or urine the result is the result but you may be waiting 5 minutes or 2 hours for Dr to arrive.
With breath it's done after the 20 minutes observation period but also knocks 17% off the reading just to be even fairer

Oops! · 15-05-2019 3:46pm

How long can you legally be held before your tested or give a blood/urine sample?

Killinator · 15-05-2019 3:47pm

Oops! wrote: »

How long can you legally be held before your tested or give a blood/urine sample?

3 hours

Oops! · 15-05-2019 3:49pm

So over 3 hours if you are not breath tested or give a sample you are released?

Killinator · 15-05-2019 3:50pm

Oops! wrote: »

So over 3 hours if you are not breath tested or give a sample you are released?

Yes, there have been issues where a driver fails roadside, is brought to station, elects to give blood or urine and a doctor doesn't show in time.
No choice but to release

Oops! · 15-05-2019 3:55pm

Can you be arrested on suspicion of drink driving and not be road side tested?

ArrBee · 15-05-2019 3:57pm

Killinator wrote: »

For the breath specimens at stations it's a 20 minute nil by mouth, not 30

Edit:
You may fail a roadside test because of mouthwash or toothpaste(though not massively likely) but unless you're consuming industrial levels then you won't fail the evidential specimen at station.

And no, once you provide the breath samples you provide them. If you want to contest them after that then you take it to court.
You may choose blood or urine before electing to choose breath. If you refuse any then it's an offence in itself carrying the same penalty as a fail anyway.
With blood or urine the result is the result but you may be waiting 5 minutes or 2 hours for Dr to arrive.
With breath it's done after the 20 minutes observation period but also knocks 17% off the reading just to be even fairer

Apologies,
the back of my mind said 20mins, but I ignored that and went for 30.
I know consumer units talk about waiting 30mins for similar reasons so probably conflated the 2.

Killinator · 15-05-2019 3:58pm

Oops! wrote: »

Can you be arrested on suspicion of drink driving and not be road side tested?

Yes, if a Garda forms the opinion that you are under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to not have full control of an mpv in a public place you can be arrested.

So you can be arrested based on their observations of you and your driving

Oops! · 15-05-2019 3:59pm

Ah right thanks.

ArrBee · 15-05-2019 4:02pm

Killinator wrote: »

Yes, if a Garda forms the opinion that you are under the influence of an intoxicant to such an extent as to not have full control of an mpv in a public place you can be arrested.

So you can be arrested based on their observations of you and your driving

Are you "in the business" so to speak?

That bit about knocking 17% off the breath reading is interesting. Is it 100% fact and applied always?

What happens if you elect to go for breath but the machine turns out to be non-functional for some reason, is it an offence to refuse the others?
or say, refuse to give blood and be unable to produce a urine sample within the 3hrs. for example.

Killinator · 15-05-2019 4:12pm

ArrBee wrote: »

Are you "in the business" so to speak?

That bit about knocking 17% off the breath reading is interesting. Is it 100% fact and applied always?

What happens if you elect to go for breath but the machine turns out to be non-functional for some reason, is it an offence to refuse the others?
or say, refuse to give blood and be unable to produce a urine sample within the 3hrs. for example.

I am

The machine (EvidenzerIRL) knocks 17% off automatically so the Garda has no choice in the matter.

If for whatever reason the machine does not give a reading then it moves to blood or urine with a Dr.
Fail/refusal at that stage is then an offence

recedite · 15-05-2019 4:27pm

Candie wrote: »

Now it's virtue signalling to object to drunk driving? It's right up there with snowflake as both an overused and ill-advisedly used term.

Driving after 1-3 pints consumed over a few hours is not the same as "driving while drunk", even though it is "driving over the limit".

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why only 1-3 miles? Why not 10 to 30 miles? What is the difference. You could easily walk 1-3 miles.

I'd hazard a guess that a lot more people are killed walking home on rural roads at night (by sober drivers) than are killed by drunk drivers.

Richard Bingham · 16-05-2019 9:53pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

No. I didn't say that. Read my posts again.

That's not an answer. You know when you're beaten.

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's a common phrase used by ruralites when there's a smell of slurry or silage. "You're in the country now" .

No it's not. And it's without meaning in this context as I have no problem being in the country. It doesn't mean that I can't comment on stupid laws which are anti rural dweller.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lol, show me a farmer that needs all the services city dwellers need? Street lighting, footpaths, Light rail for moving livestock, bus services, metro etc... !! It's fairly obvious you don't know a lot about farming!

More moronic comments. Street lighting, footpaths, light rail are infrastructure not services. I was referring to farmers needing services like a butcher, baker, banker, dentist, accountant, doctor. The point is that you don't have to be a farmer to be needed outside of Dublin.

John_Rambo wrote: »

You're not a farmer, you're not a producer. Don't pretend you are!

I never said I was. Please try to keep up. I provide services which are needed by people of all professions.

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm actually helping a friend out on her farm now!

Don't milk the bull!

John_Rambo wrote: »

Bad and drunk drivers off the road. Every time.

Don't forget stupid people. They are a menace on the boards, sorry I meant roads.

John_Rambo · 17-05-2019 12:59am

Richard Bingham wrote: »

I was referring to farmers needing services like a butcher, baker, banker, dentist, accountant, doctor. The point is that you don't have to be a farmer to be needed outside of Dublin.

This is the crux of the problem. People like you need to think outside the pale. There's cities, towns and villages that aren't Dublin and these are the rural towns and villages need to be supported.

When people insist on living outside the rural villages and towns in their one off house they become car reliant, they ignore the villages and towns that were once populated, they drive to out of town to retail parks and ignore the butcher, post office, bakeries, green grocers, draperies, pubs, off licences and local services that are closing down in front of their very own eyes! Everyone drives out of town to German, English and Irish mass suppliers to stock up because of handy parking whilst local village and town butchers and the like are surrounded by boarded up houses.

Then, everyone's amazed when the post office closes!
Then, everyone's shocked when the local butcher closes!
Then, everyone's disgusted when the Garda station is shut down!
Then, everyone's when the 70 year old bakery stops baking!
Then, they're shocked that the green grocer that was there for 30 years is gone!

Then, because the local village or town pub isn't within walking distance & it doesn't suit them they want to localise the laws to suit they're own anti-rural village and anti-rural town agendas and bend the law to enable them drink drive on by-roads, endangering the lives of their very own neighbours and have the bare cheek to tell us people (for the most part) aren't dying on the by-roads from drink driving when 290 people were killed and another 69 seriously injured on the by-roads of Ireland from drink driving in the last few years!!

Richard Bingham wrote: »

The mostly practical thing to do in rural areas would be to allow people to drive home from their nearest pub, between the hours of 11am and 1am, below 50kmph, and only on by-roads. People, for the most part, aren’t dying in these type situations.

Then they log on to boards.ie and blame people living in Dublin! Well done Richard.

wonski · 17-05-2019 1:22am

Ever heard of designated drivers?

You can take turns every weekend, you know

There is no issue unless entire village is alcohol dependant, in which case they can travel once a week to the nearest supermarket and get their supply to drink at home, because unless you are an alcoholic you can skip a drink once in a while.

Rural Ireland, lol. More like rural aa is needed.

Bobtheman · 22-05-2019 4:39pm

You have a point about rural AA. Wonder why people can't go to a pub and meet friends and not drink ? Is it the drink or friends you are going to the pub for ? Drink is addictive. Time perhaps we all looked at alternatives?

alan partridge aha · 12-08-2019 7:16am

Bought a alcohol tester in Halfords for over €120. More accurate than the Gardai use I was told. Had 5 pints of Guinness beteen 8-10:30. Got a sandwich when I came home as I had not eaten since around 2pm.

Measured myself at 11:30 and was 0.62 which is over as limit is 0.5. By 1am I was 0.5 which is ok. Read myself again at 7am and device registered 0.11 or 0 alcohol. It doesn't register below 0.11.

s7ryf3925pivug · 12-08-2019 7:36am

personally I think all this murder virtue signaling has gone a bit out of control.

TheChizler · 12-08-2019 8:16am

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Bought a alcohol tester in Halfords for over €120. More accurate than the Gardai use I was told. Had 5 pints of Guinness beteen 8-10:30. Got a sandwich when I came home as I had not eaten since around 2pm.

Measured myself at 11:30 and was 0.62 which is over as limit is 0.5. By 1am I was 0.5 which is ok. Read myself again at 7am and device registered 0.11 or 0 alcohol. It doesn't register below 0.11.

I wouldn't for a second be relying on something like that for keeping my license. The only sure method is time.

alan partridge aha · 12-08-2019 9:08am

TheChizler wrote: »

I wouldn't for a second be relying on something like that for keeping my license. The only sure method is time.

Its calibrated till July 20. So I'm extremely confident that its accurate.

xckjoo · 12-08-2019 10:16am

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Its calibrated till July 20. So I'm extremely confident that its accurate.

Calibrated by who?
It might work as a guide but the Garda readings will be the only thing that matters if you blow over the limit. No matter how confident the sales guy in Halfords is in their accuracy.

Sonics2k · 12-08-2019 10:18am

alan partridge aha wrote: »

Its calibrated till July 20. So I'm extremely confident that its accurate.

You think the Gardai or a Judge care about some Halfords knock off? They'll only go by the ones they use and/or recognize.

12-08-2019 11:03am

Why are people so confident that an accurate breathalyzer can’t be bought by a consumer? They are a fairly simple device and no reason you can have a very accurate reading from one you buy yourself.

Sure what would be the point in the French rule of having to carry one if they are so wildly inaccurate?

Tell me how · 12-08-2019 11:11am

Sonics2k wrote: »

You think the Gardai or a Judge care about some Halfords knock off? They'll only go by the ones they use and/or recognize.

I think the posters implication is that they would be confident that using the guidance of their Halfords kit, they would not be at risk of failing a Gardai test.

Effects · 12-08-2019 11:14am

Emiliano Many Cardinal wrote: »

Sure what would be the point in the French rule of having to carry one if they are so wildly inaccurate?

Don't they use single use tests rather than electronic?

xckjoo · 12-08-2019 11:19am

Emiliano Many Cardinal wrote: »

Why are people so confident that an accurate breathalyzer can’t be bought by a consumer? They are a fairly simple device and no reason you can have a very accurate reading from one you buy yourself.

Sure what would be the point in the French rule of having to carry one if they are so wildly inaccurate?

It's not that accurate ones can't exist, it's that it doesn't mean diddly squat legally and consumers will have no ability to judge how accurate they are by reading the box (or by listening to salesmen). As I said earlier, they're fine as a guide but shouldn't be taken as gospel.

tayto lover · 12-08-2019 11:20am

I always thought that the road side breath test was only to establish if you had alcohol taken and that the test in the station established if you were over the limit or not.
Am I wrong here?

Portsalon · 12-08-2019 11:25am

tayto lover wrote: »

I always thought that the road side breath test was only to establish if you had alcohol taken and that the test in the station established if you were over the limit or not.
Am I wrong here?

No.

What Username Guidelines · 12-08-2019 11:25am

tayto lover wrote: »

I always thought that the road side breath test was only to establish if you had alcohol taken and that the test in the station established if you were over the limit or not.
Am I wrong here?

I believe they are less accurate than the one at the station, i.e. they can pass/fail/warn, but for evidential breath test, it needs to be done at the station on a calibrated machine, along with other requirements such as 20(?) minutes observation, etc.

Effects · 12-08-2019 11:39am

xckjoo wrote: »

It's not that accurate ones can't exist, it's that it doesn't mean diddly squat legally and consumers will have no ability to judge how accurate they are by reading the box.

Has anyone argued that they should be legally binding? People use them as a guide, and surely consumers do have the ability to judge their accuracy based on reading the instructions.

xckjoo · 12-08-2019 11:43am

It's a blood test at the station isn't it? AFAIK that's the legally binding one.

It stands to my point about the faith you can put in the over the counter tests. The difference between fairly accurate and certifiably accurate is huge.

tayto lover · 12-08-2019 11:57am

xckjoo wrote: »

It's a blood test at the station isn't it? AFAIK that's the legally binding one.

It stands to my point about the faith you can put in the over the counter tests. The difference between fairly accurate and certifiably accurate is huge.

No it’s not a blood test unless the arrested person opts for it afaik.
They have a machine to measure your alcohol intake.

ArrBee · 12-08-2019 12:08pm

tayto lover wrote: »

No it’s not a blood test unless the arrested person opts for it afaik.
They have a machine to measure your alcohol intake.

Correct. Well it doesn't measure your intact as much as it measures what you have in your system, but I get what you mean.

There is blood, breath, urine options for an evidential reading.
The roadside is not evidential but indicative.

Given that there are different thresholds depending on the type of test, I do wonder how they are calibrated against each other. I doubt there is a linear relationship between the residue in urine vs the alcohol in blood vs whatever it is in the breath.

There is likely to be an intersect point where all 3 readings are "equal" but I wouldn't be confident that is true at all levels of intoxication or number of hours since starting/finishing drinking.

Drink driving-virtue signaling gone mad

Comments