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Proposals to liberalise cannabis laws

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  • 21-05-2019 10:33am
    #1
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭


    I'm seeing some news regarding this being reported by The Times, The Independent and The Journal etc over the last few days. What are your thoughts on this? It looks like the majority of people (from looking at social media) are in favour of full legalisation. TheJournal have a poll going at the minute with 2/3 of people in favour.
    I've copy and pasted this small article from the Journal:
    THE GOVERNMENT IS set to consider proposals to liberalise the laws on cannabis and illegal drugs.

    However, as reported in the Irish Times this morning, these plans will stop short of “full blown” decriminalisation of the personal possession of drugs and some criminal sanctions will remain on the statute books.

    Yesterday, a group of 20 doctors warned against liberalising the use of cannabis for recreational use and said the dangers, including “increased risk of development of severe mental disorders, particularly psychosis,” were being ignored.

    The group said the government was “sleepwalking” its way into supporting its use.


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    #2
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Studies have shown that Cannabis will usually only cause "increased risk of development of severe mental disorders, particularly psychosis" if consumed before full development of the brain.
    I did a paper on this when I was studying addiction and the problem is teenagers using cannabis before theyve developed fully.
    Link here from one study.
    https://childmind.org/article/marijuana-and-psychosis/

    The psychosis shows up in late 20s or early 30s.These doctors should really know that better.

    Legalising cannabis and taking it out of the hands of dealers who sell to children is in my opinion the best way to prevent mental disorders.
    Legalise it and make the penalties for selling to those under 21 extremely severe and you will reduce the levels of cannabis related psychosis.


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    #3
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Studies have shown that Cannabis will usually only cause "increased risk of development of severe mental disorders, particularly psychosis" if consumed before full development of the brain.
    I did a paper on this when I was studying addiction and the problem is teenagers using cannabis before theyve developed fully.
    Link here from one study.
    https://childmind.org/article/marijuana-and-psychosis/

    The psychosis shows up in late 20s or early 30s.These doctors should really know that better.

    Legalising cannabis and taking it out of the hands of dealers who sell to children is in my opinion the best way to prevent mental disorders.
    Legalise it and make the penalties for selling to those under 21 extremely severe and you will reduce the levels of cannabis related psychosis.

    I've read somewhere that the frontal lobe of the brain is not fully developed until your 25 or so and consuming cannabis before that can cause damage to your brain, do you think the legal age should be at 21 or 25? I haven't read up much on this but since your more educated on the topic i'd like to know your opinion on it. I'm at work at the minute and won't have the chance until later to read the study you linked in your comment to cannabis.
    Personally i'd like to see it legalised, people are smoking it regardless if it's legal or not. My opinion is that it should be legalised, it will create jobs, tax etc.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Legal or not, kids will smoke it.
    The government should be getting tax from it, at least.


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    #5
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Legal or not, kids will smoke it.
    The government should be getting tax from it, at least.

    If its legalised and strict penalties are put in place it could reduce its usage by kids.
    And to answer fractures question...I think 21 should be the legal age and I would agree with legalising it completely and all other drugs to be honest.
    My final paper was on Portugals experience with legalising everything and the reduction in harm that was provable there.


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    #6
    .Charlo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 335 ✭✭.Charlo


    I dont think even the full legalisation will take it out of the dealers hands. At the moment street price is 25 euro for 2 grams of quality bud. You just know when it is legalised they are gonna end up charging extortionate prices which will make the whole thing a waste of time.


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    #7
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    .Charlo wrote: »
    I dont think even the full legalisation will take it out of the dealers hands. At the moment street price is 25 euro for 2 grams of quality bud. You just know when it is legalised they are gonna end up charging extortionate prices which will make the whole thing a waste of time.

    Thats where the Irish Government will **** this up completely.
    In Canada a gram can be bought for as little as $9.00 averaging around 14 dollars.
    The US is slightly more expensive.
    One of the reasons its so low was to keep it out of the hands of dealers and in order for it to make a difference here it will need to be treated in a similar fashion ie it needs to be a lot cheaper than street prices.


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    #8
    .Charlo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 335 ✭✭.Charlo


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Thats where the Irish Government will **** this up completely.
    In Canada a gram can be bought for as little as $9.00 averaging around 14 dollars.
    The US is slightly more expensive.
    One of the reasons its so low was to keep it out of the hands of dealers and in order for it to make a difference here it will need to be treated in a similar fashion ie it needs to be a lot cheaper than street prices.

    It would need to be no more than ten euros a gram for this to work, obviously you can charge more for certain high end hash and cali weed (which is 100 euros for 3.5 grams at the moment, street price) First step is to decriminalise and I hope to see that happen in the next 5 years and full legalisation within 10.


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    #9
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    .Charlo wrote: »
    I dont think even the full legalisation will take it out of the dealers hands. At the moment street price is 25 euro for 2 grams of quality bud. You just know when it is legalised they are gonna end up charging extortionate prices which will make the whole thing a waste of time.

    And an interesting theory is that a lot of people just want decriminalisation as at the moment theres a lot of benefits to it heing illegal.

    Alcohol youve to pay up front for usually and after 10pm the offo is closed , pubs close at 1-3am usually.

    Cannabis you can currently get almost 24 hours a day, sometimes on tick for a week , its a great economy.


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    #10
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    Yeh, it needs to be kept at a low price, I find the normal going rate is 3.5 grams for €50 but I can get it for €10 per gram, and that's for quality stuff. I know a few people who sell it were I have a choice which kind i buy but €10 a gram is as cheap as i can get it.
    I'd be in favour of full legalisation and also being allowed to grow it myself, were I know what i'm growing and what grade it is and whats in it etc. No doubt the government will stop well short of this and only legalise it for medical use provided that it's supplied by some big pharma company. That would be a bit of progress i suppose and better than nothing but it doesn't tackle the issue of criminal gangs selling it and the fact that it's as easy to get as alcohol anyway.
    I really hope they do the right thing and make a decision that makes sense.


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    #11
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Legal or not, kids will smoke it.
    The government should be getting tax from it, at least.

    Kids tend to smoke really nasty cheap hash which is complete poison. This change would change that.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Nal wrote: »
    Kids tend to smoke really nasty cheap hash which is complete poison. This change would change that.

    Of course.
    My point is more aimed at the “if it’s legal, more people/kids will access it” argument.


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    #13
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Of course.
    My point is more aimed at the “if it’s legal, more people/kids will access it” argument.

    Sure, agree with you 100%.

    Have to say I'm surprised that as a country this is up for debate. Very progressive stuff I thought I'd never see.

    But I thought the same about same sex marriage.


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    #14
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Legal or not, kids will smoke it.
    The government should be getting tax from it, at least.

    Farmers should also be growing it.


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    #15
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    Farmers should also be growing it.

    I asked that in the farming thread and they said it won't grow here and they'll need too much security to stop people robbing it.
    If they do let them it'll make a great remake of the field.


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    #16
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    The Nal wrote: »
    Have to say I'm surprised that as a country this is up for debate. Very progressive stuff I thought I'd never see.

    But I thought the same about same sex marriage.

    Look how far we`ve come in 20 years-little ol`Ireland run by the priests and nuns!!!

    Gay marriage, abortion on demand and now talk of legalising drugs...those old priests must be rolling in their graves!!

    On a more serious note the percentage of Irish people that have smoked cannabis (illegal here at the minute) is around 25%--that was in a 2018 study.
    The percentage in Holland (where its legal) is 25.4%
    So the argument that use will increase based on those figures is unproven.
    It might increase briefly while the sudden legislation of it becomes a fad but its been proven that it stays around the same figures after the newness of legislation has died down.

    The same has been shown in the US and Canada--there studies have shown that violent crime has decreased ,the murder rate has decreased due to drug gangs not trafficking the drug, and the perception has increased that cannabis is harmful.

    The one drawback has been in some states where "edibles" are allowed have caused increases in kids being to emergency rooms having eaten these edibles.


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    #17
    .Charlo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 335 ✭✭.Charlo


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I asked that in the farming thread and they said it won't grow here and they'll need too much security to stop people robbing it.
    If they do let them it'll make a great remake of the field.

    The security part I agree with but saying you cannot grow cannabis outdoors here is nonsense. You will be limited strain wise but it can be done I've seen it.

    I think indoors is the way forward though.


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    #18
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    .Charlo wrote: »
    The security part I agree with but saying you cannot grow cannabis outdoors here is nonsense. You will be limited strain wise but it can be done I've seen it.

    I think indoors is the way forward though.

    If we keep having summers like we did last year, out door will work no problem, but Irish weather as we know it could ruin crops.
    The polytunnels used for growing strawberrys etc would work well for farmers.


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    #19
    Fracture
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Fracture


    An article was posted by TheJournal.ie in the last 24 hours, it was a fact check on some of the comments made by Dr Ray Walley.
    Here it is if anyone wants to have a read through it: https://jrnl.ie/4644673
    It looks like more lies being spouted out by the anti cannabis people.


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    #20
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    FDA are reviewing CBD levels in food etc https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-27/u-s-reviews-cbd-amid-pressure-to-act-quickly-cannabis-weekly

    Is the law black and white on CBD here, there seems to have been some shop closures and raids for CBD even though my reading of the law is it's completely legal as long at the THC is only trace amounts.


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    #21
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    If its legalised and strict penalties are put in place it could reduce its usage by kids....

    And now there is the study confirming this:
    Recreational marijuana legalization tied to decline in teens using pot


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