How can i get my old shotgun deactivated?

GerryCarry · 05-05-2019 11:56pm #1

I have a family heirloom, an old shotgun, that i would like to get deactivated as i don't want to have to pay the €80 license fee.

There are now new EU regulations where all guns deactivated in the EU have to be deactivated to a set standard (as set out in EU law). This means any center deactivating guns must be approved to do so by the EU. Unfortunately, no such center currently exists in Ireland (though i have emailed the Dept of Justice and they have told me it is their intention to get one set up in Ireland as soon as possible).

This means that at the moment you have to get someone here in Ireland to apply for an export license to export your gun to another EU state which does have the facility to deactivate your gun to EU standards. They would then need an import license to get your gun back into Ireland to give it back to you.

I would like to get this done.

Does anyone here know of any gun shop or gun club in Ireland (preferably in Munster) that will do this for you for a fee (ie take care of getting the export and import license for my gun and have it deactivated)?

Kran · 06-05-2019 9:36am

GerryCarry wrote: »

I have a family heirloom, an old shotgun, that i would like to get deactivated as i don't want to have to pay the €80 license fee.

There are now new EU regulations where all guns deactivated in the EU have to be deactivated to a set standard (as set out in EU law). This means any center deactivating guns must be approved to do so by the EU. Unfortunately, no such center currently exists in Ireland (though i have emailed the Dept of Justice and they have told me it is their intention to get one set up in Ireland as soon as possible).

This means that at the moment you have to get someone here in Ireland to apply for an export license to export your gun to another EU state which does have the facility to deactivate your gun to EU standards. They would then need an import license to get your gun back into Ireland to give it back to you.

I would like to get this done.

Does anyone here know of any gun shop or gun club in Ireland (preferably in Munster) that will do this for you for a fee (ie take care of getting the export and import license for my gun and have it deactivated)?

I asked pretty much the same question not too long ago and the answer is pretty much no from what I gathered. If you don’t want to pay the €80 every three years then you won’t like paying the €1000 to get it deactivated and sent over and back to a proof house to sign off on it. I’m only guessing that figure but I’ve heard it wouldn’t be far off.
Hopefully you can get more info than I got, I’d be interested in getting it done if it proves to be less hassle than I’ve been told.

solarwinds · 06-05-2019 10:04am

"Unfortunately, no such center currently exists in Ireland (though i have emailed the Dept of Justice and they have told me it is their intention to get one set up in Ireland as soon as possible)."

Why would they want to set one up here and why would they want it as soon as possible?. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
I would not imagine there is a huge need for one to justify the costs involved.

GerryCarry · 06-05-2019 12:14pm

solarwinds wrote: »

"Unfortunately, no such center currently exists in Ireland (though i have emailed the Dept of Justice and they have told me it is their intention to get one set up in Ireland as soon as possible)."

Why would they want to set one up here and why would they want it as soon as possible?. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
I would not imagine there is a huge need for one to justify the costs involved.

Here is the email they sent me:

xxxxxxxxxxx

I wish to advise that any Registered Firearms Dealer may carry
out the appropriate work required to deactivate a firearm in accordance
with Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2015/2403, as amended.

Ireland has not yet designated a public authority to verify that the
deactivation of firearms have been carried out in accordance with the
regulated technical specifications, however this matter is currently under
consideration and a verifying entity in Ireland will be appointed in due
course as soon as possible.

Verifying entities in other EU Member States may be used to certify
deactivation. A list of verifying entities is attached.

Deactivated firearms may be kept on the written authorisation of the local
Garda Superintendent in accordance with Section 6 of the Firearms and
Offensive Weapons Act 1990, as amended.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Alot of other EU countries have already set up their center and Ireland is lagging behind, so i'd imagine they would be eager to get it set up. They wouldn't be setting up a center as such but rather allow a gun shop or gun club here in ireland to get EU certification for the deactivation of firearms. I'd imagine alot of gun shops would be interested in being designated the center for Ireland as it would be good for their overall business.

If it did cost €1000 now to have the firearm sent abroad, i'd imagine it would cost alot less once the center is set up here in Ireland. I've heard guns used be deactivated here for about €40 or so. Its just a matter of drilling holes in the barrel and a few other small bits and pieces.

PCeeeee · 06-05-2019 12:19pm

'in due course as soon as possible'

As soon as ever we can, whenever we get round to it. Don't hold yere breath men.

GerryCarry · 06-05-2019 12:34pm

I'd like to keep the shotgun for sentimental reasons.

Would it be possible to give the shotgun to someone else or a gun club, let them store it and then when the EU deactivation center is set up in ireland let them get it deactivated and then they give me back the gun.

The thing is, i've never had a gun license. Would the local superintendent sign off on allowing me to keep a deactivated firearm in my house if i never possessed a firearms certificate in my history?

Kran · 06-05-2019 1:09pm

GerryCarry wrote: »

I'd like to keep the shotgun for sentimental reasons.

Would it be possible to give the shotgun to someone else or a gun club, let them store it and then when the EU deactivation center is set up in ireland let them get it deactivated and then they give me back the gun.

The thing is, i've never had a gun license. Would the local superintendent sign off on allowing me to keep a deactivated firearm in my house if i never possessed a firearms certificate in my history?

Is it actually in working order? If it is and you don’t currently own a gun why not apply for a license and go do some shooting. Clays or hunting, you might actually find you like it. It’s only €80 every 3 years and you probably wouldn’t need s gun safe for just 1 shotgun.
The reason I wanted my grandfathers gun deactivated was because I already have 5 guns and it would be taking a space I’ve left open for a deer caliber rifle. More than six guns and the security requirements jump up a level.

cookimonster · 06-05-2019 1:17pm

You don't need to be or have been a firearms licence owner to have a legally deactivated firearm. Plenty of reinactors I know have multiple deactivated firearms. I do belive you need written authorisation from the local Superintendent though (not the same as applying for a FAL) but someone here will confirm that.

Guns may be stored and infact used on authorised ranges without the owner needing a firearms licence but since you do not wish to pay €80.00 every three years for a licence I doubt you'll want to pay club fees.

Even if you venture down the road of a licence application your current reason for licencing the shotgun doesn't fall within the valid reasons for having a licenced gun.

To answer your question on another thread you have, most gun dealers will furnish you for a small fee and a smaller amount of your time a compentcy cert. This can be as basic as 'this is the gun, this is the muzzle and the butt, the ammo goes in here, safety and trigger there etc etc.....' or if you invest a bit more money and time you can receive a compentcy course, that will introduce you to the firearm, safe handling, basic marksmanship, cleaning and even provide shots on target. The latter is a better option for anyone owning a firearm regardless of frequency of use or intended purpose.
There are various organisations around the country that can do this, even a paid day on a clay pigeon range can give you insight to basic gun handling and skills.

Grizzly 45 · 06-05-2019 2:42pm

You 'll be waiting a very long time before a proof house is set up in Ireland again.As this opens a can of worms with the proof act of 196 whenever,and the Govt has to then employ a master proofer,who will then be employed proofing ALL firearms, in and imported into Ireland to keep him busy.Which requires legislation change and lots of unnecessary bother to all.
So it is cheaper for us all really,Govt included,that those who do want to deact stuff send it overseas

BTW, you do not need this new cert of EU proof,unless you intend to sell or otherwise let it out of your possesion.The EU legislation says what needs to be done to deact the gun,which anyone who can read,has a welder and a drill and angle grinder could do in 20 mins.And anyone in authority with some gumption could and should be able to sign off that this work was done correctly.

TBH paying 80 quid every three years is a much cheaper option,than paying a possible grands worth od deactivation.As for 1st time liscensing of an heirloom,from personal experiance,they do in fairness look abit more favourably on next of kin liscensing.So long as you aren't known to them as a frequent and regular customer!Your mileage may vary on these points,and as said if you go and do a basic saftey course,it's looked on even more favourably.

Grizzly 45 · 06-05-2019 2:54pm

GerryCarry wrote: »

I've heard guns used be deactivated here for about €40 or so. Its just a matter of drilling holes in the barrel and a few other small bits and pieces.

Not anymore.Well since abouut 8 years ago when the EU put this legislation together,and then sat on it until the Paris Bataclan attacks. Then tried to incorporate a complete gun ban in the Union of semi auto rifles and hi cap mags and everything else possible... Yes it it used to be that at one point ,all that needed to be done was weld up the chamber,drill a half dozen holes in the barrel,of appx 1/4 the barrel dia.Weld up the firing pin hole,and it was deacted,to what was called "UK old spec" So you could work the action,drop mags,cock the gun fire it. Hece old spec deacts are now worth more than when they were live firing to collectors.The new spec EU deact ,basicily turns the gun into a high tech awkward club!:(.Mags cant drop, the firing mech has to be unworkable along with enough butchering that all you could do with this is beat someone to death with it:(.

gunhappy_ie · 06-05-2019 8:57pm

GerryCarry wrote: »

Here is the email they sent me:

xxxxxxxxxxx

I wish to advise that any Registered Firearms Dealer may carry
out the appropriate work required to deactivate a firearm in accordance
with Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 2015/2403, as amended.

Ireland has not yet designated a public authority to verify that the
deactivation of firearms have been carried out in accordance with the
regulated technical specifications, however this matter is currently under
consideration and a verifying entity in Ireland will be appointed in due
course as soon as possible.

Verifying entities in other EU Member States may be used to certify
deactivation. A list of verifying entities is attached.

Deactivated firearms may be kept on the written authorisation of the local
Garda Superintendent in accordance with Section 6 of the Firearms and
Offensive Weapons Act 1990, as amended.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Alot of other EU countries have already set up their center and Ireland is lagging behind, so i'd imagine they would be eager to get it set up. They wouldn't be setting up a center as such but rather allow a gun shop or gun club here in ireland to get EU certification for the deactivation of firearms. I'd imagine alot of gun shops would be interested in being designated the center for Ireland as it would be good for their overall business.

If it did cost €1000 now to have the firearm sent abroad, i'd imagine it would cost alot less once the center is set up here in Ireland. I've heard guns used be deactivated here for about €40 or so. Its just a matter of drilling holes in the barrel and a few other small bits and pieces.

How Long ago was that email sent ?

My interpretation of that is that an RFD can still do it however it would have to be to the new European standard that your local chief will sign off on until a suitable solution is found.

Ive underlined the cost because that used to be the case, There never was an irish standard so RFDs with little tooling and even less knowledge on the working of a firearm were "deactivating" guns. In many cases they were at the very least butchering a family Heirloom with thick welds.

Unfortunately the new EU specs require specific things to be done to firearms that is time consuming and costly to get the equipment.

GerryCarry · 06-05-2019 10:52pm

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

How Long ago was that email sent ?

2 weeks ago.

BattleCorp · 07-05-2019 2:51pm

Supposing you spend €1000 getting your gun deactivated, are you still at the whim of your Super to issue an authorisation for you to keep it?

Does the Super have to issue an authorisation?

GerryCarry · 08-05-2019 1:21am

BattleCorp wrote: »

Supposing you spend €1000 getting your gun deactivated, are you still at the whim of your Super to issue an authorisation for you to keep it?

Does the Super have to issue an authorisation?

I don't know. I guess you would be obliged to make a case for why you want a deactivated gun in your possession.

Grizzly 45 · 08-05-2019 11:48am

Apparently, the way this legislation was set up,was for families to keep old keepsakes from great Granddads time in the war of independence/civil war etc and didn't take collectors into mind...So unless you are a regular customer with AGS or known to be abit on the wobbly side,I cant really see them making a big deal of it.Only other country that has this kind of legislation is Sweden.:rolleyes:

650gs · 10-05-2019 6:35pm

I have an old side by side hammer action was in working order a friend, removed the firing pins, and spot welded over the pin holes, put 2 plugs in the barrel and a spot weld on each, then put 2 cuts along the chamber.
Brought it in to the local sargent to see 3 days later had a letter from the super now its on the wall.

Grizzly 45 · 10-05-2019 9:26pm

As it should be in any sane mans language and country.But that's not good enough for the EU of course.:rolleyes:

650gs · 11-05-2019 12:56pm

There you go

gunhappy_ie · 11-05-2019 6:34pm

650gs wrote: »

I have an old side by side hammer action was in working order a friend, removed the firing pins, and spot welded over the pin holes, put 2 plugs in the barrel and a spot weld on each, then put 2 cuts along the chamber.
Brought it in to the local sargent to see 3 days later had a letter from the super now its on the wall.

Only to do is is illegal unless your a RFD.

650gs · 11-05-2019 7:51pm

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Only to do is is illegal unless your a RFD.

Since when has doing work on your own gun illegal, Garda were happy so, so am I done and dusted all legal and hanging on the wall

gunhappy_ie · 12-05-2019 11:36am

650gs wrote: »

Since when has doing work on your own gun illegal, Garda were happy so, so am I done and dusted all legal and hanging on the wall

Apologies, maybe it was my misunderstanding but you said that your friend had done it.

Individuals working on their own firearms is legal however it is a very gray area.

While I'm unaware of anywhere in the Act which prevents an individual from deactivating their own gun there are certainly things that are a criminal offence for both an individual or a RFD to do.

Lastly when* the EU deactivation regs come into effect here in Ireland, it is my understanding that any previously deactivated firearm not meeting the new criteria need to be destroyed or modified to meet the new conditions set down.

*I believe its a matter of time but it will

Bogwoppit · 12-05-2019 12:19pm

650gs wrote: »

Since when has doing work on your own gun illegal, Garda were happy so, so am I done and dusted all legal and hanging on the wall

Not illegal for you to do it back then afaik but you had a friend do it, not legal now and not legal back then.

Grizzly 45 · 12-05-2019 1:37pm

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Lastly when* the EU deactivation regs come into effect here in Ireland, it is my understanding that any previously deactivated firearm not meeting the new criteria need to be destroyed or modified to meet the new conditions set down.

*I believe its a matter of time but it will

It already is in force[see above DOJ letter in the thread].You only need to get it "Re deactivated":rolleyes: if you are going to sell it or somehow pass it on to another party.whether that includes next of kin in inheritance,I dunno.

650gs · 12-05-2019 8:02pm

Ok understand so ill explain, Im not a welder so friend came over I held the fire arm he welded etc still in my place all the time, the new reg will always be a grey area, like they do have the new regs in the uk but also have the old regs too

BattleCorp · 12-05-2019 9:21pm

650gs wrote: »

Ok understand so ill explain, Im not a welder so friend came over I held the fire arm he welded etc still in my place all the time, the new reg will always be a grey area, like they do have the new regs in the uk but also have the old regs too

I don't think there will be no grey area. The guns will have to go abroad to be certified as deactivated as there is no facility here to certify that they are deactivated to the correct standard.

It'll cost a fortune.

Bogwoppit · 12-05-2019 10:44pm

650gs wrote: »

Ok understand so ill explain, Im not a welder so friend came over I held the fire arm he welded etc still in my place all the time, the new reg will always be a grey area, like they do have the new regs in the uk but also have the old regs too

Yep, was illegal, is illegal. No grey area.

650gs · 12-05-2019 10:57pm

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Yep, was illegal, is illegal. No grey area.

Im happy lets eait and see

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

How can i get my old shotgun deactivated?

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