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Opinions on Nissan Leaf

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  • 22-05-2019 10:15am
    #1
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭


    Looking at a Nissan Leaf 2 for:

    1. Missus has a commute around 10 KM each day (20km total)
    2. Occasional trip maybe 250-300 km one way once or twice a month.

    https://juicar.com/de-DE/abo/elektroauto-und-strom-komplettpaket/car/nissan-leaf-2

    Costs are 399 a month all in, I can park/charge for free in work and my work is fairly close to our home.

    Also don't have to worry about insurance/maintenence etc, even winter tyres are taken care of.

    Only think I'm worried about is the Type-2 Charger is only 6Kw ? so even if it's an 11Kw charger is basically useless ?

    Also would appreciate to hear some real world experience on the 2018 model if anyone has one :)

    Charging wise it's a no brainer, we have 20 charging stations in our car park and there are plenty of free 50kw rapid chargers around the city (Aldi for example)


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    #2
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 64,916 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    On a 300km trip, you will have to publicly fast charge in the middle. Possibly twice on a bad day in winter if you drive at motorway speeds. Do you really want to rely on that several times a month? I wouldn't.

    A car like a Kona / eNiro 64kWh costs a few grand more than a Leaf, but it can do that trip without charging any day of the year

    Edit - just checked your link. You are based in Germany? Maybe the fast charging network over where you are is much better than it is in Ireland. Over here I wouldn't want to rely on public charging given the poor state of our network. Are you sure the Aldi etc. chargers are CHAdeMO (the system used by the Leaf)?


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    #3
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    unkel wrote: »
    On a 300km trip, you will have to publicly fast charge in the middle. Possibly twice on a bad day in winter if you drive at motorway speeds. Do you really want to rely on that several times a month? I wouldn't.

    A car like a Kona / eNiro 64kWh costs a few grand more than a Leaf, but it can do that trip without charging any day of the year

    Edit - just checked your link. You are based in Germany? Maybe the fast charging network over where you are is much better than it is in Ireland. Over here I wouldn't want to rely on public charging given the poor state of our network. Are you sure the Aldi etc. chargers are CHAdeMO (the system used by the Leaf)?

    Yeah the rapid chargers here are always Type 2 / CCS and CHAdeMO

    We wouldn't do several trips a month anyways, only 1 max 2, for long journeys the plan would be to rent a cheap petrol.

    The highway rapid chargers are pricey enough but would switch my Energy Provider to Maingau:
    https://www.maingau-energie.de/e-mobilit%C3%A4t/autostrom-tarif

    Works out at 15 cent / kwh up to 60 mins on DC.


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    #4
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Yeah the rapid chargers here are always Type 2 / CCS and CHAdeMO

    We wouldn't do several trips a month anyways, only 1 max 2, for long journeys the plan would be to rent a cheap petrol.

    The highway rapid chargers are pricey enough but would switch my Energy Provider to Maingau:
    https://www.maingau-energie.de/e-mobilit%C3%A4t/autostrom-tarif

    Works out at 15 cent / kwh up to 60 mins on DC.


    Would you not just buy a car that can do all your journeys?
    Kona/eniro/model 3 SR+ would all do that and at a better price point and better future proof way than a leaf.


    Germany is imo the worst place to have a chademo leaf. All CCS manufacturers there.

    15c/kWh is very cheap for DC charging


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    #5
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Would you not just buy a car that can do all your journeys?
    Kona/eniro/model 3 SR+ would all do that and at a better price point and better future proof way than a leaf.


    Germany is imo the worst place to have a chademo leaf. All CCS manufacturers there.

    15c/kWh is very cheap for DC charging

    Read my post again guys, I don't want to buy or lease so a Kona/E-Niro and Tesla anything are off the table


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    #6
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Looking at a Nissan Leaf 2 for:

    1. Missus has a commute around 10 KM each day (20km total)
    2. Occasional trip maybe 250-300 km one way once or twice a month.

    https://juicar.com/de-DE/abo/elektroauto-und-strom-komplettpaket/car/nissan-leaf-2

    Costs are 399 a month all in, I can park/charge for free in work and my work is fairly close to our home.

    Also don't have to worry about insurance/maintenence etc, even winter tyres are taken care of.

    Only think I'm worried about is the Type-2 Charger is only 6Kw ? so even if it's an 11Kw charger is basically useless ?

    Also would appreciate to hear some real world experience on the 2018 model if anyone has one :)

    Charging wise it's a no brainer, we have 20 charging stations in our car park and there are plenty of free 50kw rapid chargers around the city (Aldi for example)
    Check out the German langauge reviews of the Leaf on the Autophorie Youtube channel. Charging is noted as the biggest issue.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzJzL2VfHE

    In Germany a 40kwh Zoe is better because there are 22kwh type 2 chargers everywhere and a Zoe will take the full 22kwh although you might not want a Zoe.


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    #7
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Only think I'm worried about is the Type-2 Charger is only 6Kw ? so even if it's an 11Kw charger is basically useless ?

    This seems to be your main question.... what is the issue?

    You can still plug your 6.6kW Leaf into an 11kW AC charge point just that the Leaf will only pull 6.6kW's from it.

    Its not useless and considering the low daily mileage you have it will be more than adequate.

    For the long journeys you will be using rapid DC charging at 50kW so the AC charge rate doesnt matter for that scenario.

    i.e. Do you understand the Leaf has an AC and DC charge port?


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    #8
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    rivegauche wrote: »
    Check out the German langauge reviews of the Leaf on the Autophorie Youtube channel. Charging is noted as the biggest issue.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onzJzL2VfHE

    In Germany a 40kwh Zoe is better because there are 22kwh type 2 chargers everywhere and a Zoe will take the full 22kwh although you might not want a Zoe.

    I also had a look at Zoe and it's around the same price as the Leaf per month.
    https://www.e-flat.com/fahrzeug_e2_privat.php

    Most of the chargers around here are 11kwh not 22kwh though

    The Zoe is pretty basic though, is pretty much the same level of interior as the Smart Four/Two
    KCross wrote: »
    This seems to be your main question.... what is the issue?

    You can still plug your 6.6kW Leaf into an 11kW AC charge point just that the Leaf will only pull 6.6kW's from it.

    Its not useless and considering the low daily mileage you have it will be more than adequate.

    For the long journeys you will be using rapid DC charging at 50kW so the AC charge rate doesnt matter for that scenario.

    i.e. Do you understand the Leaf has an AC and DC charge port?

    Yeah, the type 2 is AC and the CHAdeMO port is DC.


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    #9
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Yeah, the type 2 is AC and the CHAdeMO port is DC.

    I think the next Leaf (62kWh) will have a 3-ph option which will allow you to get the full 11kW from those charge points but if you go for the current 40kWh Leaf it will work fine too on those charge points, just slower.

    Shouldnt matter to you though with your daily mileage.


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    #10
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    KCross wrote: »
    I think the next Leaf (62kWh) will have a 3-ph option which will allow you to get the full 11kW from those charge points but if you go for the current 40kWh Leaf it will work fine too on those charge points, just slower.

    Shouldnt matter to you though with your daily mileage.

    If it was a choice between a Zoe and a Leaf II for the same money per month which would you go for ?


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    #11
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    redcup342 wrote: »
    If it was a choice between a Zoe and a Leaf II for the same money per month which would you go for ?

    Leaf II, because it has more tech and is bigger but its a personal taste thing really.... whatever suits you better is what you should buy.


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    #12
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    redcup342 wrote: »
    The Zoe is pretty basic though
    Mine isn't basic with the Bose trim level.
    At least you'll find a proper driving position in a Zoe which is something you can't get in a Leaf II.
    I'm not recommending to buy a Zoe what with the new version being just around the corner, I'm just saying in Germany it is, as it stands, a better option than a Leaf for long distances and that youtube video I referred to explains exactly why the Leaf is compromised in Germany.
    and I'm not recommending to buy now as the Government are talking about doubling the grant which may come to pass in a few months time.


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    #13
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    redcup342 wrote: »
    Read my post again guys, I don't want to buy or lease so a Kona/E-Niro and Tesla anything are off the table
    Not mentioned anywhere.


    The leaf40 is an inferior product now to Kona, eniro and Tesla M3


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    #14
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Not mentioned anywhere.


    The leaf40 is an inferior product now to Kona, eniro and Tesla M3
    https://juicar.com/de-DE/abo/elektroauto-und-strom-komplettpaket/car/nissan-leaf-2

    Costs are 399 a month all in, I can park/charge for free in work and my work is fairly close to our home.

    It's clear as day in the link, 399 a month to rent all in ! :confused:
    1 additional driver included
    1000 Euro deductible
    NISSAN LEAF II (ZE1) Acenta
    Subscription can be canceled on a monthly basis
    Maintenance, repairs, insurance, taxes and tires - all inclusive
    Vehicle pickup and return at our service partner in Cologne
    Charging cable (also for household socket)
    Access to over 108,000 public charging points with app and charging key


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    #15
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,839 ✭✭✭daheff


    redcup342 wrote: »
    It's clear as day in the link, 399 a month to rent all in ! :confused:

    link is in German...so no not as clear as day.


    Lease/rent...pretty much the same thing anyways.


    IMO wait for the newer leaf or look for a similar deal on a eNiro/Tesla/Kona etc. assuming you want an EV.

    For the travel distance your wife is doing, its barely worth it on a financial basis.


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    #16
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,506 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    redcup342 wrote: »
    It's clear as day in the link, 399 a month to rent all in ! :confused:


    You didnt mention it in your post, and you said "Read my post again guys".


    As it happens I speak german anyway but only read the link after.

    400 per month to rent a leaf all in (even though it's not "all in" as theres a km limit) is not great value.


    You'd get PCP on a kona for not much more with a much better car and much longer range, and faster more ubiquitous and future proof DC charging.


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    #17
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    daheff wrote: »
    link is in German...so no not as clear as day.


    Lease/rent...pretty much the same thing anyways.


    IMO wait for the newer leaf or look for a similar deal on a eNiro/Tesla/Kona etc. assuming you want an EV.

    For the travel distance your wife is doing, its barely worth it on a financial basis.

    Ok, I guess not everyone is using Chrome :)

    Leasing and Renting are completely different, you can't lease on a monthly basis, it's minimum 1 year usually and then it's a Financial Lease only.

    This is including everything, Insurance, tax maintenance, even swapping out the winter tyres and you can cancel it on a monthly basis i.e. hand the car back just like to do at Hertz at Dublin Airport or whatever.

    I'm not really concerned with the cost (that's a no brainer I've already done the maths)

    Looking for experience with actually using the Leaf day to day

    ELM327 wrote: »
    You didnt mention it in your post, and you said "Read my post again guys".


    As it happens I speak german anyway but only read the link after.

    400 per month to rent a leaf all in (even though it's not "all in" as theres a km limit) is not great value.


    You'd get PCP on a kona for not much more with a much better car and much longer range, and faster more ubiquitous and future proof DC charging.

    You are tied into a Lease for minimum 1 year excluding your other costs then and with a Kilometer limit anyway (due to the residual value)

    If I wanted to that I'd just buy the car outright.

    https://www.swmb.de/neuwagen/smart/aktionen/smart-electric-drive-leasing.html?no_cache=1

    Look at a subsidised purely financial lease on a Smart EQ, it's 40000km over 48 months.

    it's 199 euros a month before you even pay for anything else.


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    #18
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    https://www.sparneuwagen.de/renault-zoe-life-z-e-40-r90-leasing-fuer-149-228-euro-im-monat-brutto/


    https://www.sparneuwagen.de/kia-e-niro-edition-7-leasing-fuer-199-euro-im-monat-netto-frei-konfigurierbar/

    not what you want but much cheaper.


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    #19
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    rivegauche wrote: »
    https://www.sparneuwagen.de/renault-zoe-life-z-e-40-r90-leasing-fuer-149-228-euro-im-monat-brutto/


    https://www.sparneuwagen.de/kia-e-niro-edition-7-leasing-fuer-199-euro-im-monat-netto-frei-konfigurierbar/

    not what you want but much cheaper.

    First one is a financial lease at 10000km / year, so I'd have to get fully comp insurance and have all of the maintenance and risk on myself.

    Second one is also a Financial only lease but only possible at that rate if you are self employed.

    You would be better off buying it than taking the first deal, second is a decent deal but you need your own company to take advantage of it.


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    #20
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    LEAF will only charge at 3.7 kW max from 11 kW charge points btw as it has a strictly single phase charger. Verified that myself by charging on Tesla 3 phase 16A chargers. The i3 and eGolf both can charge at 7.2 kW from them as their 3 phase chargers can turn to a 2 x 16A chargers under those conditions.

    399 a month all inclusive sounds like a pretty good deal nevertheless compared to finance if you don't aspire one day owning the car outright.


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    #21
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    surely your employer offers a firmenwagen discounted rate. They nearly all do and it is sweetened with the 50% BIK tax reduction.


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    #22
    redcup342
    Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭redcup342


    rivegauche wrote: »
    surely your employer offers a firmenwagen discounted rate. They nearly all do and it is sweetened with the 50% BIK tax reduction.

    Ya that's a lease, minimum 12 months with Athlon, Sixt Neuwagen, VW Bank, Mercedes etc, only difference is it's coming off your Gross rather than your net.

    Fully operational lease will cost a ton.

    And it's not really that simple to work out your savings, you still are better off in many cases just buying a car and claiming your 1 way kilometers to work in your return.


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    #23
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Is your employer not offering additional discounts to order an EV firmenwagen instead of a verbrenner to reduce their CO2 footprint?


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    #24
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    If you are intent on buying an elektroauto then check for an incentive plan in your municipality

    https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/e-mobilitaet/kaufen/foerderung-elektroautos/

    2000 is available in my locality over an above Federal incentives.


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