Microsoft buying Zenimax/Bethesda

recyclops · 22-09-2020 12:17pm

MJohnston wrote: »

IMO they'd be mad to turn down the profit that releasing Elder Scrolls or Fallout on PlayStation would bring.

Thats like saying nintendo are mad for not bringing zelda to PS and Xbox, they just dont have too

MS have it on console and pc, both huge fanbases and together would probably dwarf PS only people.

Think about how much a stick sony fans use exclusives on websites and social media to beat Xbox with, now imagine pulling two of the biggest gaming franchises away from them at least until you can get your own platform on a rival device and make money from that device, you can even then say how the games play better on your own device if it turns out to be the case.

This is massive and really would make me considering picking up a series X only if i had to choose one or the other.

johnny_ultimate · 22-09-2020 12:23pm

It's both an incredibly smart move, but also just a massive corporation throwing their weight around in a way others could not.

It's a cheat code variation of fighting your way up the food chain. Why put the effort into developing studios and series of your own, when you can just spend $7.5 billion to get there? :pac:

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 12:26pm

Penn wrote: »

It's a long-term move rather than short-term. Microsoft have an enormous war chest behind them. They can easily take the hit on the profits releasing the games on PS5 would bring, because the plan is to buy up more studios and properties, increase their share of the market in terms of consoles and Gamepass subscriptions, and then the future profits of releasing games on PS5 aren't as valuable.

The more studios and franchises they can buy up for Gamepass and take away from Playstation, the more attractive Xbox and Gamepass becomes to Playstation users.

Playstation's strength the past generation has been their first-party studios and their exclusives. MS are now buying up studios and existing franchises not just to compete with Playstation on that aspect, but to boost up what their strength has been lately, which is Gamepass. Sony can't compete on the same level as that as they don't have the funding MS has, even with a much higher market share in terms of consoles.

MS can tank the hit of not releasing those games on Playstations.

You are right Penn.
This is a long term move. Personally I don't see any of these games (bar those two that already agreed on ps5 releases) ever coming to the ps5.

They say it's easier to hold a customer than it is to gain a new customer in business. This deal may just secure so many ps5 owners to make the switch.

skerry · 22-09-2020 12:27pm

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

What hines said about looking at each game on a case by case basis is a load of baloney , we'll never see a elder scrolls or fallout game on playstation again.

I'd say their playing their cards close to their chest for the moment. If they have enough of an install base between the Series X, Series S and the current Xbox One and X then I'd say they'll be more than happy to give 2 fingers to Sony and keep exclusivity on those titles. If the PS5 blitzes Series X sales then you might have a different proposition.

nix · 22-09-2020 12:29pm

My guess is anything that was already in production for the PS4/PS5 will continue, but after that, no more.. Unless they're happy to just whack them with delayed releases.. Hard to tell, they have probably yet to make the decision themselves.. Sales are what will make the decision tbh, so they're right to go with the case by case route, as saying all exclusive from the get go and then changing their mind would just make fanboys mad

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 12:33pm

skerry wrote: »

I'd say their playing their cards close to their chest for the moment. If they have enough of an install base between the Series X, Series S and the current Xbox One and X then I'd say they'll be more than happy to give 2 fingers to Sony and keep exclusivity on those titles. If the PS5 blitzes Series X sales then you might have a different proposition.

That kind of ignores the fact that Microsoft also have the PC market where Bethesda games often perform very well sales wise.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:05pm

recyclops wrote: »

Thats like saying nintendo are mad for not bringing zelda to PS and Xbox, they just dont have too

It's not like that at all, seriously! Nintendo are largely a hardware and games company, but that's about it. They have to keep their games exclusive because they want to drive hardware sales.

That is not where Microsoft tend to position themselves. The profit margins on Game Pass are huge compared to hardware, and it's a far more scalable business.

They'll make far more money off of Game Pass as a cross-platform thing than they ever will from low-margin hardware sales.

Retr0gamer · 22-09-2020 1:08pm

You could be right. But I have a feeling you are being massively naïve and are going to be disappointed when these games don't come to playstation.

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 1:15pm

MJohnston wrote: »

They'll make far more money off of Game Pass as a cross-platform thing than they ever will from low-margin hardware sales.

Cross platform?
you saying gamepass should be on PS5? :pac:

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:15pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You could be right. But I have a feeling you are being massively naïve and are going to be disappointed when these games don't come to playstation.

Disagree, I think it would be very naïve to think that Microsoft are interested in maintaining the same old console model that's been around for decades, now that we're in the subscription era!

Regardless, I won't be disappointed either way as the XSX will be my first next-gen console

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:18pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Cross platform?
you saying gamepass should be on PS5? :pac:

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 1:27pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

Not a chance :pac:
Dude, it'll be a cold day in hell before Sony will allow it's competition to offer GamePass on its platform. In business you do not promote your competition. This is 101 stuff.

Not to even mention Sony have their own subscription based service (ps now) that they will be looking to build up more and gain a more of a market share.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:31pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Not a chance :pac:
Dude, it'll be a cold day in hell before Sony will allow it's competition to offer GamePass on its platform. In business you do not promote your competition. This is 101 stuff.

Not to even mention Sony have their own subscription based service (ps now) that they will be looking to build up more and gain a more of a market share.

And yet that's exactly what EA Play is!

recyclops · 22-09-2020 1:32pm

MJohnston wrote: »

It's not like that at all, seriously! Nintendo are largely a hardware and games company, but that's about it. They have to keep their games exclusive because they want to drive hardware sales.

it was more in relation to MS looking to get the profits of the sony only users. I do get your point in relation to nintendo being forced to sell hardware

Gonzo · 22-09-2020 1:36pm

I had no plans to get an xbox console since I already ordered the PS5 last week but this news is seriously making me consider getting an Xbox Series S just for the Bethesda games and gamespass as Bethesda are one of my favourite developers with such a library of existing games and i'm sure lot more great games in the pipeline which will now unlikely be on Playstation any time soon.

22-09-2020 1:39pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah, I've said it a few times on this thread! And Switch too. And Mac. It's already on Android, and Microsoft clearly wanted it to be on iOS too.

ETA: Not "should be" as I have no skin in the game, but "likely will be" (presuming Sony aren't as onerous as Apple).

They tried and failed to bring it to Nintendo switch due to irreconcilable differences preventing Xbox from (what Phil Spencer called) giving users the full Xbox ecosystem experience.

22-09-2020 1:40pm

Gonzo wrote: »

I had no plans to get an xbox console since I already ordered the PS5 last week but this news is seriously making me consider getting an Xbox Series S just for the Bethesda games and gamespass as Bethesda are one of my favourite developers with such a library of existing games and i'm sure lot more great games in the pipeline which will now unlikely be on Playstation any time soon.

We're also likely to see Series S\X enhancements for the back catalogue that are unlikely to come to PS5.

Penn · 22-09-2020 1:43pm

MJohnston wrote: »

And yet that's exactly what EA Play is!

EA aren't a competitor to Sony, definitely not in the way Microsoft are. And it took a while for Sony to allow EA Access on PlayStation. They're definitely not going to allow Gamepass on it.

McFly85 · 22-09-2020 1:44pm

Not a hope Gamepass is on PlayStation this generation. I expect Sony will look to expand PSNow and the PSPlus collection(which they should really merge into one subscription).

They won’t make first party games available on the service day 1 either, but there should be a more predictable window for when first party games get added.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 1:47pm

Penn wrote: »

EA aren't a competitor to Sony, definitely not in the way Microsoft are. And it took a while for Sony to allow EA Access on PlayStation. They're definitely not going to allow Gamepass on it.

And if Game Pass is available on PlayStation, then Microsoft aren't really a competitor to Sony anymore in the way they are now either!

If Microsoft dangle Game Pass to Sony and Nintendo as the only way to get the next Elder Scrolls or Fallout onto their hardware, it'd take a very brave executive to say no to that.

Mitch Connor · 22-09-2020 2:00pm

I hope MS don't offer GamePass on PS, and I hope they make all the newly owned IPs exclusive, including any sequels to Deathloop and Ghost Wire.

SOny like to throw their money around to get exclusives, both in game and full third party games, so I would like to see MS just say no Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Doom etc on PS5.

But I can see a situation where *some* of the titles are available on PS - like having Doom exclusive and Wolfenstein cross-plat.

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 2:02pm

MJohnston wrote: »

And yet that's exactly what EA Play is!

EA is a third party company

They make games for consoles. They do not sell a console. Never have.

I'll pose a question to you. Can you name one Sony or Xbox owned game studio that developed a game and released it for the other console...

Mitch Connor · 22-09-2020 2:05pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

EA is a third party company
They make games for consoles. They do not sell a console. Never have.

I'll pose a question to you. Can you name one Sony or Xbox owned game studio that developed a game and released it for the other console...

Yes,

SIE San Diego Studio

EDIT: Actually that isn't correct. I thought MLB the Show had released on Xbox but it is the coming title, not the current one out.

Penn · 22-09-2020 2:15pm

MJohnston wrote: »

And if Game Pass is available on PlayStation, then Microsoft aren't really a competitor to Sony anymore in the way they are now either!

They are, because so long as MS keep making consoles, it'll be cheaper to play on Xbox and pay for one subscription service than play on Playstation and have to pay for PS+ and then Gamepass on top of that too. It'd also destroy Sony's own PS Now. And the more games MS arrange to bring through Gamepass, the fewer are bought from PS Store thereby reducing Sony's cut.

Fallout & Skyrim are big franchises. No doubt about it. But they're also going to be available on PC. As big as Fallout & Skyrim etc are, they're not big enough for Sony to have to panic or throw out their business model. Skyrim was released almost 9 years ago, and Fallout has taken a serious hit as a franchise with Fallout 76. I'd see losing Arkane as a bigger hit to Sony because it makes Deathloop something of a lame duck considering any sequel to it will likely be Xbox exclusive.

Fallout/Elder Scrolls aren't going to make Sony do a deal with MS to bring Gamepass to Playstation. The only such studios who could trigger Sony to do something like that could be if Microsoft bought EA or Ubisoft, but even then those studios are so big and so inherently multi-platform that it would likely cause anti-consumer regulations to block such a move.

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 2:21pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yes,

SIE San Diego Studio

EDIT: Actually that isn't correct. I thought MLB the Show had released on Xbox but it is the coming title, not the current one out.

I'll save you the hassle of searching... You can't find any.

It's just smart business. If a gamer wants to play the new God of War they have to buy a playstation. If they want to play Halo they need to buy Xbox etc etc.
You push and promote your own console. That applies to everything. Including gamepass.

But here's another thing.. let's say magically gamepass appears on ps5 for its console lifespan. Then what?
Sony would have allowed it's rival to get an entire market share for a subscription based game service.
Then come ps6 and the next Xbox Microsoft simply announces that the next xbox is the only console to have gamepass only. Why would Sony allow that?

The games industry has always been about keeping up with the Jones to not lose any market share.

"Oh I see your next console has a digital only edition? We're gonna have one to"
"Oh I see youve got a subscription game service well we're gonna have one too"

Even game genres. Killzone was Sony's answer to Halo years ago.

MJohnston · 22-09-2020 2:27pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

EA is a third party company
They make games for consoles. They do not sell a console. Never have.

I'll pose a question to you. Can you name one Sony or Xbox owned game studio that developed a game and released it for the other console...

Mojang - Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons
Double Fine - Rad, Psychonauts 2 (or it will be)
Obsidian - Outer Worlds
Compulsion - We Happy Few
inXile - Wasteland 3, The Bard's Tale IV

johnny_ultimate · 22-09-2020 2:29pm

Penn wrote: »

I'd see losing Arkane as a bigger hit to Sony because it makes Deathloop something of a lame duck considering any sequel to it will likely be Xbox exclusive.

Arkane games aren’t massive sellers usually, so the loss is more in terms of prestige and reputation as their games are usually cult favourites and critical successes as opposed to big blockbusters. For the average player, Elder Scrolls is a much bigger deal simply because Skyrim has such a footprint.

Penn · 22-09-2020 2:48pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Arkane games aren’t massive sellers usually, so the loss is more in terms of prestige and reputation as their games are usually cult favourites and critical successes as opposed to big blockbusters. For the average player, Elder Scrolls is a much bigger deal simply because Skyrim has such a footprint.

Oh totally. I meant as a (near) launch title for PS5, exclusive (timed or otherwise), it was a big feather in the cap for the first few months of the PS5 especially with how they've given it so much time in their showcases. To have the studio now be going to Microsoft means the potential of the franchise and for Sony to really get behind the franchise/studio has now completely dissipated. Arkane are a studio on the rise. Sony losing a potentially strong relationship with them is definitely a kicker in terms of lost potential for PS5 users.

B.A._Baracus · 22-09-2020 2:58pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Mojang - Minecraft, Minecraft Dungeons
Double Fine - Rad, Psychonauts 2 (or it will be)
Obsidian - Outer Worlds
Compulsion - We Happy Few
inXile - Wasteland 3, The Bard's Tale IV

You literally spent an hour googling didn't you ....

22-09-2020 3:01pm

Yeah if I was a MS director who was pissed off waiting for Elder Scrolls 6 to come about, I would have done the very same thing too.

Microsoft buying Zenimax/Bethesda

Comments