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47, male, married: too old to separate?

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Comments

  • #52
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Emme wrote: »
    OP you're a 47 year old man, of course it's not too late to separate. You'll be a hot commodity on the dating scene and you will find a younger, sexier and more attractive woman than your wife in no time. Why should you put up with a worn out wife who has been with you for 20 year or more and is by now starting to get a bit stale? Add to that the tiredness from 2 children under 6 and a job, she won't be looking too good. You can see the kids at the weekends and in between that live the life with a new young hot partner or a succession of young hot women, it's your choice. Walk out that door and the world will be your oyster.

    Seriously you need to consider your children. I don't recall you mentioning them very much. Do you love your children? Did you have the children to try and save a flagging relationship? That's not good. I would advise you and your wife to go for relationship counselling. You both need professional advice before making any drastic decisions.

    Give the porn hub fantasy a rest, "a younger, sexier, and more attractive woman than your wife" and "the world will be your oyster" isn't a guarantee at all - wtf do you know about it?

    Then to state he'll be relegated to an every other Saturday father is a gross generalisation and clear to see where your bitterness or priorities lie. I'm sure he loves his children, what a question.
    Posters like you should be banned from this forum.


  • #53
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    The OP has come here seeking advice on an issue that is affecting them and is clearly upset. Some of the posts fall far below the standard expected here in PI/RI. Offer constructive and civil advice to the OP or do not post.

    Thanks

    HS


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BuboBubo wrote: »
    As a woman of similar age to op (but with no kids) I can tell you hormonal shifts can wreak havoc on a good sex life.

    I'd be more concerned about the lack of affection TBH. Most people understand that the desire for sex waxes and wanes throughout a marriage. Lack of affection is a different matter entirely.

    I'd also be concerned about the insurmountable barrier the OP sees with separation. It screams depression to me. OP I think you need to sort yourself out first. Find out what YOU want from your life. Clearly your kids are a big part of that. Love and affection from your wife is too. You need to learn to be a self sufficient MAN again. It might rekindle your wife's affection too. But as others have said, get counselling for yourself first.


  • #55
    statto25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭statto25


    Christ some of the responses in this thread are shocking! Ill echo what others have said here....OP have a look at talking to a counsellor about what youre experiencing and feeling and take it from there. Try not to make a rash decision despite your obvious pain.
    Some of the "suck it up this is life" comments are rather startling and this is coming from a man whose parents "stayed together for the kids" and now I have mental health issues including depression and anxiety. The best thing kids need is love and caring and if that happens in a co-parent situation then so beit. I am separated myself and we have a small boy. He has shown no signs so far of a major impact as we adore him, he is literally my world and not in a bad way. I hope this continues and while the separation has been a sh1t show to say the least, he continues to thrive.
    Your kids can too OP if thats the path you go down. However staying without working out your own issues and the issue in the marriage will only do more harm than good in the long run.


  • #56
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    Statto25 requesting PMs is against the Charter here in PI/RI. Although well meaning I'm sure, this is in the best interests of both parties. Please do not request or send PMs on the back of posts here.

    Thanks

    HS


  • #57
    statto25
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭statto25


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    Mod Note

    Statto25 requesting PMs is against the Charter here in PI/RI. Although well meaning I'm sure, this is in the best interests of both parties. Please do not request or send PMs on the back of posts here.

    Thanks

    HS


    Sorry Hannibal no harm intended


  • #58
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Cumha wrote: »
    Is there any light for a man of my age with two little children or do I need to find healthy ways of living with loneliness in this marriage for the rest of my life (if such ways exist)?

    Yes, there is light ahead; but also yes, you do need to find healthy ways of living - not specifically with your current loneliness, but with the many different aspects of being one person in a multi-person relationship.

    Fifteen years ago, I found myself in a similar position, albeit at a slightly younger age, but with two extra children under six. I received - and followed - various aspects of the advice given on this thread, particularly the "be a good husband-and-father" stuff, but it didn't make any difference: the formerMrsCR was following other advice, based on the version of events she described to others, which ultimately led to almost ten years of "ineffable darkness."

    Two good things came out of that, though: almost as soon as the formerMrsCR decided we were finished as a couple and took herself off, I woke up to the fact that I had willingly (if inadvertently) given up just about all the hobbies and interests that were important to me up to the time I met her. I'd allowed myself to become distracted by family and career commitments. A huge part of keeping myself healthy in mind and body through those dark years was due to making time for those activities once again; and one of the "lights" ahead turned out to be my children developing their own interest in the same activity, to the point that now as young independent adults, they will organise their time and travel so that we can share events together.

    The second good thing is probably a double-edged sword: thanks to a few people making sure I stayed on the rails during the Dark Years, when the formerMrsCR eventually realised that she was more to blame than me, I had done nothing stupid enough to give her reason to hate me. She had burnt too many bridges between us for us to be able to get back together as husband and wife, but we are friends again - sufficiently so to be able visit one another from time to time even though we now live about 1000km apart, and without the excuse of it being anything to do with the children. The double-edged sword bit is that she's not an "ex" - she's still the mother of my children, she's in my frequent contacts list, next month I'll be dropping in to collect some stuff from her before she moves another 1000km away from me ... with an invitation to visit her in her new house. So she's still part of my life, and I'm not sure how easy it'll be to find another woman who accepts her presence in the background.

    On that last point, I'd be quite happy if someone would post a list of all these 40-something women desperate for good husband. Contrary to the opinions expressed above, they're not on online dating sites and they're definitely not on PornHub. As it happens, a non-random encounter last month reminded me that, even now in my 50s, the light has not gone out. Nevertheless, in terms of a "return on investment" it would have been a lot better to put more effort into figuring out what was wrong between MrsCR & I at the time that it was going wrong, because that is sorted out now, and we could have happily grown old together as originally envisaged.


  • #59
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭uli84


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    Nevertheless, in terms of a "return on investment" it would have been a lot better to put more effort into figuring out what was wrong between MrsCR & I at the time that it was going wrong, because that is sorted out now, and we could have happily grown old together as originally envisaged.

    wow, fair play, would you mind sharing what was wrong or that’s too personal?


  • #60
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    uli84 wrote: »
    wow, fair play, would you mind sharing what was wrong or that’s too personal?

    Well, yes it is personal ... but probably all too common too. Get yourself comfortable, though - this might take a while. :)

    There were three aspects to the problem. The first was the well-documented scenario of low-grade, undiagnosed post-natal depression, which in our case happened to coincide with two major lifestyle changes. That was the point at which I felt most alone, because I needed to make serious career decisions that would impact our family life, and MrsCR suddenly wasn't interested in listening to my concerns or contributing anything to the discussion. Is there a degree of similarity with the OP's situation there? MrsCR didn't have the stereotypical "can't get out of bed in the morning - need half a bottle of wine in the evening" type of PND; her's was the lower-grade version, where she had just enough energy to look after the children, but nothing left for me.

    The second aspect was my interpretation of my role as a father: back to the "be a good husband" theme. I was a good father, prepared to do anything and everything that needed to be done - cooking, cleaning, nappies, school-runs, bedtimes, the works. This took on a new importance when we moved from England, where we were living at the time, to France where everything eventually fell apart. The move itself wasn't the problem - MrsCR trawled the internet looking for properties, she put our house on the market and hosted the viewings, and she bought the children French lessons on CDs and DVDs - all of which helped to keep a lid on her PND, too. But when we moved, and I had nothing else to do other than be a "good father" all of the time, which exaggerated a tension I'd never realised was there: I did too much around the house, and MrsCR felt I was devaluing her role as a (full-time) mother.

    Underlying those two contributory factors was the real trouble, again undiagnosed: MrsCR has Asperger's Syndrome, and genuine difficulty making complex decisions. The signs were there when I first met her, but I ignored them as a personality quirk; and they were there in her family, but again written off as "just they way they are." It wasn't until after she was gone and I had to raise our AS son on my own that the effect of those "quirks" on our relationship started to make sense, and how having children and moving abroad made things so much worse. The simple choices we made as a couple (what restaurant to choose, where to go on holidays, what film to watch) were now much more complicated, often with a deadline. She couldn't cope with the complexity and I could, so I ended up making too many final decisions, leaving her feel even more worthless than before. Her response, in the end, was to make a run for it.

    So that's "what was wrong" ...



    Only that wasn't the end: because of the children, and because she gave a not-entirely accurate version of what she'd run away from, MrsCR was talked into taking legal action instead of trying to salvage our relationship; and once the solicitors got involved, she outsourced all the decision-making to them. It took about three years of WTF???-ing on my part before I even began to understand what was going on, and another three years to re-establish anything resembling a functional relationship. However, once I knew what the "fatal flaw" in our relationship was, it was considerably easier to take the advice of friends who reminded me - over and over again - that my battle was now with the legal profession, not MrsCR. Having acknowledged she'd opened a Pandora's box that she couldn't close, we were able to work together to limit the fallout - a huge challenge by then, which involved such shenanigans as literally meeting 'round the back of the High Court in London to plan our next moves after letting our barristers play the roles of warring spouses for the judges [that's the simplified version - there were six barristers arguing in the end, in front of a panel of three judges ... our family cost the British taxpayer a fortune!]).

    It was a weird form of marriage counselling, but the protracted and increasingly farcical legal process went a long way to repairing our relationship, and each of us understanding the other's strengths and weaknesses better than before. If the clocks were turned back, knowing everything I know now, I would still ask her to marry me; and if she hadn't filed for divorce (and later married someone else) I'd have given her a second chance. On her side, our eldest son says she's told him that she wished she'd followed her uncle's advice to "give it two more years" and she marks our wedding anniversary in some small way every year ... But if she hadn't precipitated the crisis when she did, maybe neither of us would be where we are now? And I doubt very much I'd have been in the right place at the right time to meet the woman who seems like a worthy successor to MrsCR (though, of course, she might be no less of a fantasy than any of those wans on PornHub :pac: )


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  • #61
    popa smurf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭popa smurf


    Thanks for sharing that Celtic rambler you had a lot going on. Hope the OP is in happier place sure he posted this at 12.30 on a Saturday night Sunday morning. Sure we have all been there, kids in bed Saturday night a few drinks and your feeling freaky and herself too tired or a pain somewhere that you never heard of and you stay up alone and have a few more drinks and you feel rejected and think it's all over.


  • #62
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    Would you try marriage counselling OP? Or do you think you're passed that? It does sound like you love your wife and the issue is you feel it's not reciprocated? If it was would you want to stay?...

    If she promises the moon and stars to try and focus more on you, it can be said that at least she wants to try? It's just a matter of putting it into practice. Maybe she just needs to be told by a third party and marriage counselling is a way of doing that?


    Thanks for the reflective, constructive suggesions. Yes, it’s the lack of reciprocation in action which is the issue (she says the words). In a heartbeat I would stay if she showed love and want. She’s the love of my life, or at least that’s how I always would have described her. We’ve given the best years of our lives to each other. She has always been home for me.

    As for marriage counselling, we tried that two years ago, at my request. We said we’d work on things together, be kinder to each other - but again, and again and again the pattern of neglect and indifference to me, to this relationship, is the default. She gets caught up in work, in the kids, in everything else and this goes on for weeks and months without as much as a hug. It is all or nothing. It is not, as some people here seem to want to believe, that she gives “less” to me - it’s nothing. I did make this clear in the op.

    There’s only so long that “tiredness” can remain an excuse. Yes, there’s tiredness, but there’s also free will to prioritise this relationship at times. There are relatives to help out, and there are smart ways to incentivise the kids to get to bed early, etc, and allow her to spend time with me (she was spending up to 5 hours per night getting them to bed, when 1 hour would suffice on the vast majority of nights). But that choice is consistently not made. I really wish other people could desist from this binary, all-or-nothing approach. It really is the mentality of an extremist. As far as I’m aware most healthy relationships are not based upon neglect - a balance of some sort is found.

    These expectations that somebody give up their happiness and fulfilment in a marriage and just accept the loneliness and isolation are off-the-charts dysfunctional. I’d be 100% certain that if the couple are giving love to each other, the kids would feel it, and if neglect has replaced love, they’ll feel it. It’s actually worrying that there are people here who believe marriage is supposed to be some self-flagellating penance where the man should give up his happiness because the woman can’t manage her anxiety, or the ego boost of a child. That’s crazy zero-sum game thinking.

    What I do mind, however, is that the softness, the kindness, the time, the conversation is never, ever offered to me. Conversations, if one could call them that, are more like military instructions about how to facilitate the kids’ plans for the day. There’s always some drama, some “Oh my God” last minute, self-created, self-inflicted crisis.

    That drama was always there long before the kids, but there was remission, relief, time together to recover from it and even laugh at it. That’s what is missing now, so things go from one drama to another without that vital time together. Stress. Love, kindness, a simple “How are you, love?” are not there in this adrenalin-junkie world. Even those quiet, peaceful silences together were a break. The anxiety is compounded by Covid-19 to give something else to create a drama about. And touch, I desperately miss that, ineffably so - and I really don’t care how many people get the wrong end of the stick and wilfully reduce that to a need for sex. It’s so obviously not the same thing. Painfully obvious. Although there’s patently a need for sex, given that I’m not a prude, I had hoped it was clear in the op that it’s the entire world of human connection with this woman that I’m bereft of. The little kindnesses, the smile, the long chats into the night - just a 10-minute chat would be welcome now. People read into it what they want to.

    As for the marriage counselling, I could request it again, and she’d probably go but it’s the consistent indifference to working on this relationship which is breaking me. Each time, without fail, I am the one making all the running to get it back and build it up. As I said in the op, it’s the not being wanted, the consciousness that she could continue indefinitely with her nonchalance about this relationship which disturbs me. But each time I bring it up, she says the words of love, etc, before it returns to this new normal of apathy, indifference and neglect where I’m merely useful to have around the house and to pay half of all the bills. How she can go a day, never mind a month, without touching me disturbs me. I’ve thought - many, many times now - of leaving but all the advice is to not leave the family home as it would be yet another stick to beat me with in court. I was due to have some time abroad with work, but Covid put a stop to that. I proposed in summer that I stay at home, but she wanted us all to go on our family holiday. So I live in this touchless world of a different silence night after night.

    I know I could easily have an affair, but that’s never been something I could live with and it just sounds like a complication I could do without. But I have, pathetically, thought that if I could get her to believe I was having an affair she might cop on. I feel I need to not be here, to not be available, for a couple of weeks and if she is happier without me, we can call it a day. At least there would be clarity then and that would be empowering whatever decision it was. At present, though, I’m trusting her words of love and waiting for her actions to match because the consequences of calling this a day are enormous - and to call it a day when love might still be there would be the greatest error of all. It is emotionally and spiritually withering, and I need to bring it to a head one way or another.


  • #63
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    kerry cow wrote: »
    get over yourself man , that's married life ,
    you wife is a good mother , that's what a good mother does

    Because, of course, you can only be a “good mother” if you’re a bad wife? Perhaps you should explain this “all or nothing” choice to the women who manage to do both roles well?
    be a good husband and bring home the bacon... and maybe help her with her chores... you wife is probably run off her feet and wrecked by the time the kids go to bed .

    Mother of God, is this 1950? Are you a parody? As it happens she earns more than I, albeit not earth-shatteringly more. Still, I’m expected to “bring home the bacon”.

    There’s a hell of a lot of sexism in responses here. For instance, this nonsense about helping around the house. As it happens, I’ve always been the one who likes to keep the place tidy just because the place is calmer when things can be found, etc. I also do all the gardening and diy stuff for the same reason. She works 60-70-hour weeks so n top of my own full-time job I also end up doing the dinner most days. I genuinely don’t mind any of that. However, these beliefs bring it home to me that if I end up in the family court and have backward, ignorant, sexist people judging me based on assumptions because I’m a man I’m in trouble. The consequences of these prejudices chill me to the bone and make my despair for alternatives to this marriage all the greater.


  • #64
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Sesame wrote: »
    I read this and felt for the wife to be honest. When you say affection, do you mean sex?

    I suppose you could have actually read the sentence immediately preceding it: “the old absence of touch, conversation and communication is reinstated as the default position of this relationship.” You could also have read mentions of “unprecedented neglect, loneliness and emotional evisceration”, “emotional breakdown” and so on. But, no - you just read into it what you wanted to and decided it’s all about sex.
    Sesame wrote: »
    Your wife is giving attention to the children and not as much to you

    Hold it right there. I made clear there’s nothing emotionally or otherwise coming. Nothing. It’s not a matter of “not as much” so stop inventing things. It’s a stupid all or nothing mentality, not an all or “not as much” mentality which would not be an issue. Either engage with what I’ve said, or don’t bother posting.
    Sesame wrote: »
    If you love her and want more "affection" maybe clean the kitchen; there really is nothing sexier.

    This trite, sexist trope again. When you do the housework most of the time, it’s taken for granted. It would probably be more effective in terms of getting clarity if I stopped doing all I’m doing, as the house would turn into a pigsty and her stress levels would rocket.


  • #65
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    irishblessing wrote: »
    OP, a strong marriage is the bedrock of a happy family. Any spouse who ignores the other to such an extreme degree isn't healthy and is actually counter to being the best parent and example. It's in the children's best interest to have a strong parent unit and happy family life. Children will one day grow and leave and so where does this lady think your relationship will be after decades of turning away from you? How very sad, and I will say no one deserves this level of neglect from their spouse, who most likely uttered vows to the opposite of her actions now.
    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    The classic and and critical mistake in a lot of failed marriages is putting the kids first. The husband and wife's relationship has to be paramount. Otherwise, the bedrock of the family unit cracks. An unhappy husband or wife will, over time, erode the relationship, which then either develops into a long term unhappy marriage or separation.

    Precisely. It’s beyond odd that anybody would think the man should “suck it up” and accept a life of neglect and loneliness once they have children. Perhaps, for the sake of full and frank disclosure, the women who think this should muster the courage and integrity to make this very clear in advance to any potential husbands? I certainly wasn’t told about this supposed condition of having children. Quite the contrary, actually.


  • #66
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    CelticRambler, Strandroad, Irishblessing, Bitofabind and others - thanks to each of you for your thoughtful, helpful advice. Bitofabind - I couldn’t agree more with what you said, and ‘trauma’ is very much the word. Last Thursday was World Suicide Prevention Day and to my surprise it is men over 45 who have the highest rate of suicide in Irish society (https://www.samaritans.org/ireland/about-samaritans/research-policy/suicide-facts-and-figures/). I had always thought it was younger men, not guys who are presumed to have their act together, who were most at risk. Men aren’t talking to each other about these things, and they are more alone than they should be. I’m definitely going to find somebody to talk to about it but I’ll still have to come home to this. I desperately need to get my head around it.


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  • #67
    Yellow pack crisps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Yellow pack crisps


    Working 60-70 hours per week is very unhealthy and brings a plethora of problems to a person and if that person has a family it has a massively negative effect on everyone. I would be pretty sure that this is the root of the problem. What’s left to give after you’ve given the majority of yourself to work? I know I’ve done that for years when I was single and didn’t want or need another person in my life because basically I’d no time or energy to give. I guess the kids what’s left and you are an afterthought. That’s not a nice position to be in. I imagine your wife would perhaps be a different person if she worked 40 hours per week for instance, it would take time to decongest but ultimately she would have time not just for her family, but herself also. I think maybe a conversation about reevaluating her live to work mentality is needed as a basis to go forth as a couple and a family. I think maybe you will get answers when priorities are asked to be defined.


  • #68
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,304 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Working 60/70 hour weeks and giving 5 hours a night settling the kids, she is a great woman to manage that and all the other daily tasks. You seem to mention your relationship with the children little, which is worrying in itself, if you split do you think she will be the primary carer or you, considering she works longer hours it might be better if you were.


  • #69
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Cumha wrote: »
    She works 60-70-hour weeks

    OP do you not think that this is key information? To work so much with young children and remain functional and sane (not to mention affectionate and in a good mood) is a huge challenge. What kind of work is it? How did it happen?


  • #70
    hayoc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭hayoc


    Cumha wrote: »
    I feel I need to not be here, to not be available, for a couple of weeks and if she is happier without me, we can call it a day. At least there would be clarity then and that would be empowering whatever decision it was. At present, though, I’m trusting her words of love and waiting for her actions to match because the consequences of calling this a day are enormous - and to call it a day when love might still be there would be the greatest error of all. It is emotionally and spiritually withering, and I need to bring it to a head one way or another.

    This sounds like you are just wishing your life away waiting on a change that never happens.

    Take the action yourself. Make a change. Separate on a trial basis. There is nothing to stop you separating and then if that kick starts her into wanting change you can agree to try again if she makes the changes. Or you decide to call it a day. Either way, youll get your clarity.


  • #71
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I think working 60-70 hours a week is your issue. How can anyone sustain that week on week, be an active parent when they are home and still be expected to have anything left for their partner or themselves.

    What can she do, if anything, to reduce those hours?


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  • #72
    bitofabind
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭bitofabind


    OP, your above read was very eloquent and articulate about just how painful this problem is. If I read that from my partner I'd be devastated, I couldn't imagine reading that from someone I love and being able to continue in my life without attempting to resolve things. Would you consider sharing it with her?

    I'm glad to hear you'll seek out your own therapy. Yes, you'll still have to come home to this, but you'll have some clarity from the noise in your head, you'll feel less alone and will learn tools to protect your own needs. Even if your wife never changes, as so many people don't. You'll learn how to handle the triggers from her apathy towards you and doing the right thing for you will be a bit clearer.

    And glad you can see this clearly already - any advice that seeks to invalidate or dismiss your feelings and encourages you to ignore your needs because "that's life" doesn't even deserve acknowledgement. People that do this in the long-term have emotional problems, addiction, depression, all the afflictions that are prolific in this country. Listen to your own instincts, counselling will help with this.


  • #73
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    Cumha wrote: »
    She works 60-70-hour weeks so n top of my own full-time job I also end up doing the dinner most days.

    Hi, just read your last posts. I think this is the crux of the whole issue, as others are now calling attention to as well.

    That's an insane, insane amount of hours to be working and taking on the lion share with the children!! I appreciate you do a lot around the house, especially with dinners, but that only makes sense if you're working 39-48 hrs a week.
    I hear you that she's spending a lot of time with the children for the bedtime routine, instead of the 1 hour you think it can take. It's very difficult to only take children 1 hr to get to bed though. And secondly, if she's working like a demon as all that, then she's probably trying to spend some time with them when she can and sounds like that's the main time she has to do it. Mothers, separate from fathers I think, feel huge guilt and pressure as working mammies. They are expected to work as if they don't have children, and raise their children as if they don't work.

    Something has to give in your work schedules, especially hers. I can't even imagine how she's getting through the end of the day, let alone week. Of course she has no energy for your relationship, and she's probably got no time for herself and feeling burned out too. I think this is the main problem. What can be done to reduce her massive work schedule?


  • #74
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,541 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Cumha wrote: »
    she was spending up to 5 hours per night getting them to bed

    Between this and working 60-70 hour weeks, seems to me she is going to great lengths to avoid you - what does that say about what sort of relationship she wants?

    Something is not right there. You talked about drama and that you try to keep the house tidy to make things "calmer". She has you dancing to her tune to avoid blow-ups. This is emotional abuse imho and I'd be worried about this pattern of behaviour being replicated with the kids in future years.

    By all means get therapy yourself and plan a way forward, but imho sooner or later you will need to lay it on the line - either she makes a real effort to get to the root of this in both couples therapy and her individual therapy, or else the marriage is over and you will live separately and prioritise the kids' welfare.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #75
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    I'm guessing the stated 5 hours to get the kids to bed was a bit exaggerated. If children go to bed around 9 or 9:30, she's hardly working that many hours yet able to be home by 4pm to start the children on a 5 hour bedtime routine? There's dinner time and baths too....


  • #76
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    Cumha wrote: »
    There’s a hell of a lot of sexism in responses here. [...] However, these beliefs bring it home to me that if I end up in the family court and have backward, ignorant, sexist people judging me based on assumptions because I’m a man I’m in trouble. The consequences of these prejudices chill me to the bone and make my despair for alternatives to this marriage all the greater.

    You're right to be worried. As someone who had every sexist allegation thrown at me by people who were granted a say in my family life without ever having met me, I would highly recommend that you listen to what you're saying yourself, and set the cost of that against the cost of whatever other action you'll have to take to sort this out.

    Like the others above, though, it does sound to me that your wife is working way too much for either her own health or the health of your relationship. I can well imagine that she would take "five hours" to put the children to bed, especially if they know that they can take advantage of her tiredness to stretch out the bedtime routine. Now I would wonder just how much of your being a good husband-&-father is allowing her to stay in this rut, rather than dealing with the evident problems in the relationship.

    With that in mind, it seems to me like you really need to engineer a "legitimate" break - such as the overseas work placement you described - so that she's forced to live without your help for a while - and so that you aren't inadvertently making things worse for yourself (and yes, that's based on my own experience). Although Ireland is still very much living the lockdown lifestyle, continental Europe is largely open for business: have a look at what overseas opportunities you might be able to take advantage of, or create for your employer, and see if you can organise a three-month break for yourself.


  • #77
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I too think that 60/70 hour week is a question that may well go to the heart of the issue here. Does she have to do those hours (doctor, running her own business) - or is she choosing to spend that much time away from you and her family?

    The 5 hours putting kids to bed sounds utterly ridiculous. Are you saying that she spends 35 hours a week doing that, on top of up to 70 hours a week working? That leaves 7 hours per week not occupied by work or kids, assuming 8 hours sleep - and not taking account of commuting or other duties.


  • #78
    cj maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    I haven’t read every post OP but I can relate to the hours spent by the OP ‘S spouse putting the kids to bed. She’s avoiding you and any conversation with you that’s not on her own terms . My soon to be ex spouse would spend hours bathing the kids while ironing socks! or watching tv upstairs. 4 times a week! Pure avoidance imo and something to throw at you ( I send x hours putting them to bed etc)


  • #79
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    cj maxx wrote: »
    I haven’t read every post OP but I can relate to the hours spent by the OP ‘S spouse putting the kids to bed. She’s avoiding you and any conversation with you that’s not on her own terms . My soon to be ex spouse would spend hours bathing the kids while ironing socks! or watching tv upstairs. 4 times a week! Pure avoidance imo and something to throw at you ( I send x hours putting them to bed etc)

    I think you have a point under 'normal' circumstances. But did your soon to be ex-wife also work 60-70 hrs/week?


  • #80
    cj maxx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    irishblessing wrote: »
    I think you have a point under 'normal' circumstances. But did your soon to be ex-wife also work 60-70 hrs/week?

    May be /maybe not idk . She would leave for work on a Mon / Tue but that’s a whole new thread!


  • #81
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    Kerry Cow PI/RI is a place where people can come for advice from other users on an issue that is troubling them. That is the whole purpose of the forum. Furthermore, when replying it is required that you offer constructive advice to an OP in a civil manner.

    Please do not post in this thread again and read the Charter before posting anything else in PI/RI.

    Thanks

    HS


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  • #82
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    My previous reply on this thread was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I wasn't getting at the OP but the people who were telling him it was ok to separate without really going into his wife's view of things.

    Now I see that his wife works 60-70 hours a week and puts the children to bed. The OP is working fewer hours at the moment. There is every possibility that the OP's wife is burned out which would be a very good reason for how she is. She is clearly doing her best to be a good mother. She would probably like to be a good wife too but doesn't have the energy for it. Like every good mother she is giving the little energy she has left to her children. People are criticising her for spending an hour putting the children to bed. I think that's really harsh. It's probably the only time she has with them every weekday.

    I would advise the OP to have a discussion with his wife about her long hours and the effect this is having on her overall well-being and family life including their marriage. She would have a much better chance of being the wife the OP wants and the mother she wants to be for her children if she was working no more than 35-40 hours a week.

    Does she have to work long hours to make ends meet? If not another possibility is that she is working long hours to avoid the OP.


  • #83
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Emme wrote: »
    If not another possibility is that she is working long hours to avoid the OP.


    Working 70 hrs is painful. I don't think it would be worth suffering to avoid him.

    I am not saying she is NOT avoiding him. I would say she is.

    I would say she works because her work requires that

    I have a job that just required long hrs for a time. I was needed.

    It could be they need the money but its not really seeming like he thinks they do or he wouldn't be complaining about her long hrs.

    I would say she is good at her career it means a lot to her to BE good etc. And that is the hours she NEEDS to put in for her position.

    Would that be true OP?

    And no i am not negating her avoidance of you.

    Or her not trying to meet your needs.

    Her work is her priority etc.

    Would this be relevant to your situation?


  • #84
    Granadino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Granadino


    How is it possible to work 70 hours per week? That's 10 hours per day? So she is working 8 to 8, 7 days a week or 9 to 9?
    Mon to Friday would be 9am to 11pm every day? Surely that is just not possible, unless they are driving long distances and factor that in...


  • #85
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    Granadino wrote: »
    How is it possible to work 70 hours per week? That's 10 hours per day? So she is working 8 to 8, 7 days a week or 9 to 9?
    Mon to Friday would be 9am to 11pm every day? Surely that is just not possible, unless they are driving long distances and factor that in...

    It is possible to work 70 hours per week. She would be working 14 hour days 5 days a week or a little under 12 hours 6 days a week. There are people who do it. 8 to 8 or 9 to 9 is a 12 hour day. If she is factoring in a commute that doesn't make it any easier on her. If she is a hospital doctor she could easily work 70 hours a week and everyone knows the stress doctors are under at the moment. Even if she is not a doctor certain jobs expect that type of dedication, particularly multinationals.


  • #86
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Granadino wrote: »
    Mon to Friday would be 9am to 11pm every day? Surely that is just not possible.

    My brother did it.

    Its possible.


  • #87
    Bobtheman
    Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Caution-you cant ask people to comment on a marriage of probably ten years based on a few lines. Having small kids often causes marriage disharmony. Its not unusual. To be fair to women they generally do more and are more focused on the kids than dads.
    The only thing I can suggest is that you make attendance at Marriage counselling a priority. Set it up. Make enquiries. Get advice on how long the process goes on.
    Then you evaluate it.
    We don't know if you are intimate with your wife. Sometimes couples with kids can go months. Or whether you have date nights.
    You could have more need for affection than your wife. Marriage is about compromise-you ain't going to get everything you want.
    Try the Counselling. If she objects then you have to revaluate.
    But nobody here is a marriage counsellor or nobody here is you or your wife.
    I just noted the 60-70 hours a week. That has to be an issue. Try discussing that first and then suggest counselling but give her space to think it over. You might have been mulling this over for months she probably hasn't the time to.
    Its either she reduces her hours-if that's a runner or the counselling but something has got to give.


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