Thoughts on Moving Abroad - Possibly Canada

red petal · 26-04-2019 9:28am #1

*If this is the wrong place for this thread, please let me know.

I'm 31 with a 5yr old and a partner. I work full time and my partner is self employed. We have been renting for the last 9yrs - on a decent rent so that's not an issue. Our landlord has no plans to sell anytime soon and will not screw us over by selling up at a minutes notice- We're very lucky!

The thing is, we don't see ourselves buying in Ireland anytime soon. The houses are way overpriced and we enjoy life's little luxuries that would become less attainable if we commit to a mortgage. I would love to own my own house for the stability but my partner is not fussed. He would much rather build his own, but buying land and that option is not within reach anytime soon.

Besides this, I am increasingly worried about the state of our country and the corrupt politicians and have no desire to spend my life frustrated and angry with the poor decisions the government make.

I have toyed with the idea of emigrating to Canada. The quality of life appears to be so much better. Health and childcare perks etc. I have 2 family members there at the moment so they have told me this- although I am still skeptical unless I see for myself.

I work for a global company that I am hoping would assist us if we did decide to go. But it would be a massive decision as we would be uprooting my child from school, possibly loosing our great renting situation if it didn't work out and my partner possibly not getting work or not enjoying working for a company.

Has anyone else had any experience of moving abroad or had a similar situation and is there a lot more to think about? Am I silly for even considering it?

L1011 · 26-04-2019 10:28am

If you consider Irish politicians corrupt, I'd advise you not to emigrate anywhere!

noubliezjamais · 26-04-2019 11:51am

Is it not really difficult to migrate into Canada, like magnitudes harder than the U.S. and Australia? They'd be looking for special skills unless you have a relative/spouse who is Canadian or you are rich.

Anyway try. This country is a kip to be fair. Funny how my friend from Botswana even said Ireland is the "third world of Europe" lol. he was comparing it to the states obviously.

Does anyone know as well if you can migrate if you're HIV positive? I heard that renders you medically inadmissable.

26-04-2019 11:54am

Have to ask, how much are you paying in rent compared to how much a mortgage would cost? Even in a house share (outside Dublin) plenty are paying more in rent than they would for their own place if they had a deposit.

circadian · 26-04-2019 11:56am

Lived in Canada for years. If you can get sponsored or residency you're flying. Quality of life in the cities is excellent and somewhere I'd be more than happy raising children.

Buying property, however, is just as expensive if not moreso than Ireland. Unless you want to live somewhere like Edmonton or Winnipeg. I would suggest Victoria BC as the weather is decent, it's not too big, a lovely city and possibly property prices aren't as insane as the likes of Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal etc.

26-04-2019 12:08pm

Quote: The thing is, we don't see ourselves buying in Ireland anytime soon. The houses are way overpriced and we enjoy life's little luxuries that would become less attainable if we commit to a mortgage. I would love to own my own house for the stability but my partner is not fussed. He would much rather build his own, but buying land and that option is not within reach anytime soon

I think when you want to own a house you have to sacrifice life's little luxuries no matter where you live. If you want that stability there is usually a price to pay. (then again mortgage repayments are usually cheaper than rent).

My daughter and husband live in Vancouver, been there for 5 years. Its beautiful but incredibly expensive, make no mistake, particularly accommodation. He has a good job as an architect but they are paying big bucks for a tiny apartment on the 10th floor of an apartment.
She is due her first baby in 2 weeks and has spoken about returning home in the next few years to be close to family . They'd love to have a house with a small garden but that's only a dream in Vancouver. There's always a price to pay and the grass isn't always greener...………………………...

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:24pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Is it not really difficult to migrate into Canada, like magnitudes harder than the U.S. and Australia? They'd be looking for special skills unless you have a relative/spouse who is Canadian or you are rich.

It is hard to get in. My sister is currently trying to get back there. But I imagine it would be a little easier if I can get relocated with my job (I''m just guessing, to be fair). A lot of people from my job have moved to many different countries with work.

Midnight_EG · 26-04-2019 12:26pm

You've to be 31 or younger to qualify for the Working Holiday VISA, so unless you have sponsorship you're a bit out of luck

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Have to ask, how much are you paying in rent compared to how much a mortgage would cost? Even in a house share (outside Dublin) plenty are paying more in rent than they would for their own place if they had a deposit.

Currently paying 800 for a 3 bed house. Landlord does not hassle us and often we pay a few months together. Sure, there are people paying around the same or less for a monthly mortgage but there's the need for approx €60k deposit for a decent house in a decent location and often €150k interest.

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:32pm

circadian wrote: »

Lived in Canada for years. If you can get sponsored or residency you're flying. Quality of life in the cities is excellent and somewhere I'd be more than happy raising children.

Buying property, however, is just as expensive if not moreso than Ireland. Unless you want to live somewhere like Edmonton or Winnipeg. I would suggest Victoria BC as the weather is decent, it's not too big, a lovely city and possibly property prices aren't as insane as the likes of Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal etc.

I know the cost of living is more expensive there and i knowing buying a home is not really an option there. But Im weighing it up against not buying a home here or not buying a home there and having a better quality of life.

Cina · 26-04-2019 12:34pm

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Is it not really difficult to migrate into Canada, like magnitudes harder than the U.S. and Australia? They'd be looking for special skills unless you have a relative/spouse who is Canadian or you are rich.

Anyway try. This country is a kip to be fair. Funny how my friend from Botswana even said Ireland is the "third world of Europe" lol. he was comparing it to the states obviously.

Does anyone know as well if you can migrate if you're HIV positive? I heard that renders you medically inadmissable.

The US is incredibly difficult to get into. The don't offer anything like the working Visa you can get for Canada or Oz. You basically need a sponsor (i.e. already jave a job arranged) and even then, after they pay something like 10k in fees for you, it's like a 1 in 4 chance lottery to get in.

Wanderer78 · 26-04-2019 12:35pm

Possible recession on the way for parts of Canada, sounds like the housing market is wrecked, does sound like a nice country to live in though

RasTa · 26-04-2019 12:35pm

Go. Great place. Vancouver the best imo super hot summers and normal winters.

Cina · 26-04-2019 12:35pm

red petal wrote: »

I know the cost of living is more expensive there and i knowing buying a home is not really an option there. But Im weighing it up against not buying a home here or not buying a home there and having a better quality of life.

May I ask why you think you'd have a better quality of life there? I lived in Vancouver for a year and whilst I enjoyed it, I wouldn't say I lived any better there than I do in Ireland. It still has all of the same problems we do. High rent, no affordable housing, stagnating wages etc.

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think when you want to own a house you have to sacrifice life's little luxuries no matter where you live. If you want that stability there is usually a price to pay. (then again mortgage repayments are usually cheaper than rent).

My daughter and husband live in Vancouver, been there for 5 years. Its beautiful but incredibly expensive, make no mistake, particularly accommodation. He has a good job as an architect but they are paying big bucks for a tiny apartment on the 10th floor of an apartment.
She is due her first baby in 2 weeks and has spoken about returning home in the next few years to be close to family . They'd love to have a house with a small garden but that's only a dream in Vancouver. There's always a price to pay and the grass isn't always greener...………………………...

Yes, that's why we are so unsure of a mortgage. We enjoy living life nicely now as opposed to the restrictions of buying a home that will constantly swallow our money and tie us down to a country that makes it difficult for families to have anything other than debt.

I do understand the want for moving home with a small baby. This is one of my concerns.

Ush1 · 26-04-2019 12:39pm

I'm confused, so do you want to own property or not?

You can buy land and build in the back arse of beyond for cheap in Ireland or Canada.

Politicians are corrupt everywhere. I've been to Toronto twice and I didn't like the attitude to alcohol. Very strict hours and all off licenses are government operated(I think?). It's an amazing city though and felt very safe but property there would be big money, bigger than Dublin.

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:39pm

RasTa wrote: »

Go. Great place. Vancouver the best imo super hot summers and normal winters.

The weather definitely appeals to me too. I know the winters can be harsh but the Summer is great!

super_furry · 26-04-2019 12:40pm

red petal wrote: »

Currently paying 800 for a 3 bed house. Landlord does not hassle us and often we pay a few months together. Sure, there are people paying around the same or less for a monthly mortgage but there's the need for approx €60k deposit for a decent house in a decent location and often €150k interest.

You're paying peanuts in rent. You'd be looking at three times that in Vancouver - https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Vancouver

keano_afc · 26-04-2019 12:40pm

I've 2 friends who made the move in the last 5 years. Both went to Winnipeg (we've got mutual friends there) and one ended up marrying a girl from Selkirk, the other was married to an Irish girl. They both have trades, so had no issue getting work. Both of them have absolutely no intention of ever coming back.

Since they moved their wives have had children in Canada, so the Irish couple shouldnt have any issues staying as long as they like.

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:41pm

Midnight_EG wrote: »

You've to be 31 or younger to qualify for the Working Holiday VISA, so unless you have sponsorship you're a bit out of luck

My Job is global, there is an option to relocate which is different.

26-04-2019 12:45pm

RasTa wrote: »

Go. Great place. Vancouver the best imo super hot summers and normal winters.

I've been to Vancouver for the last 4 Summers.
Some are lovely, some are not, in fact their weather is very similar to Ireland. They get an awful lot of rain, and they get more snow in Winter (at least they did this year!)

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:47pm

Ush1 wrote: »

I'm confused, so do you want to own property or not?

You can buy land and build in the back arse of beyond for cheap in Ireland or Canada.

Politicians are corrupt everywhere. I've been to Toronto twice and I didn't like the attitude to alcohol. Very strict hours and all off licenses are government operated(I think?). It's an amazing city though and felt very safe but property there would be big money, bigger than Dublin.

I'm not willing to live in the back arse of beyond for cheap. If I can't buy a house in a decent location without paying extortionate interest, I wont be buying. I would prefer to save for 30 years and buy a house outright than sacrifice my everyday quality of living- In theory.

I don't drink much and have a child so a safe city is far more appealing to me than one that's lax on alcohol. I was in the UAE recently and level of safety and lack of alcohol was the thing that impressed me most.

red petal · 26-04-2019 12:52pm

super_furry wrote: »

You're paying peanuts in rent. You'd be looking at three times that in Vancouver - https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Vancouver

Yes I know my rent situation is great which is probably the main fear of losing. I'm not sure on childcare costs but i do know that some workplaces have free childcare- i know these are probably few and far between but it's something i will look into. As far as i know, healthcare is covered with wages etc. aswell.

RasTa · 26-04-2019 12:56pm

red petal wrote: »

The weather definitely appeals to me too. I know the winters can be harsh but the Summer is great!

Winters are fine, snowed once in the city and it came to a complete standstill like Dublin. Bar that never below -2.

I got lucky and had friends over there whom where friends with this old Canadian hippy/white trash dude so got a one bed apartment for $300 a month beside him in kits and they where living in his house for $600 or something whilst he lived in the basement.

He also had skiidos, boats, motorbike, jetski's etc. So every weekend we would be doing somthing Can't find the video but this was the house

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cnocbui · 26-04-2019 1:06pm

Different situation to you OP, but same objective.

First thing really is to sort out if you can move in terms of immigration, because it makes everything else moot if you can't.

I am rather eager to leave. The main reason for me is the tax burden here is way too high, then there's the weather, then there's the 3rd world dysfunctional health care.

Canada would be a great move. One of the best countries which consistently ranks in the top 5 for quality of life.

My eye is set on New Zealand.

mariaalice · 26-04-2019 1:15pm

Its a great idea if you can make it happen provided the main reason your are going is not...its always better somewhere else....If you are going for genuinely better opportunities that is different.

Also living in a new country without the support networks you have here with a partner who prefers to spend money on life luxuries rather than a secure futuer for their family is something to consider.

mariaalice · 26-04-2019 1:23pm

red petal wrote: »

I'm not willing to live in the back arse of beyond for cheap. If I can't buy a house in a decent location without paying extortionate interest, I wont be buying. I would prefer to save for 30 years and buy a house outright than sacrifice my everyday quality of living- In theory.

I don't drink much and have a child so a safe city is far more appealing to me than one that's lax on alcohol. I was in the UAE recently and level of safety and lack of alcohol was the thing that impressed me most.

With that plan, are you going to live charmed lives never get sick, or not be able to work, or get cancer or have an accident or, or have to put children through college, you rent is alwys going to be a reasonable so you can save ect.

beejee · 26-04-2019 1:43pm

I think theres a lot of confusion between irish people "emigrating" for a year or three, in their 20's, on temporary visas, to do jobs that just get them by, versus serious emigration such as moving families and looking for permanency.

The temporary guys will always have something positive to say, its all a laugh.

Immigration/emigration is basically finished worldwide. Couple of exceptions here and there, but its grinding to a halt.

Instead of running from problems (rent, property, opportunity, stagnation), its time a lot of people realised that its virtually the same everywhere else.

With one exception. The personal power you have here is multitudes greater than anywhere else. You can vote tomorrow if you so choose, you can harass and harangue politicians today, you can demand change as an irish person in Ireland. Not so anywhere else, not for a very, very long time at least.

Theres nowhere left to run anymore, its time for people here to demand and realise the changes they want to see. As the song goes, if you tolerate this, your children will be next.

Its terribly disheartening to feel stuck, but better to face up to serious problems and challenge them. Otherwise we'll continue on the same trajectory toward the middle ages again!

yagan · 26-04-2019 1:44pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Different situation to you OP, but same objective.

First thing really is to sort out if you can move in terms of immigration, because it makes everything else moot if you can't.

I am rather eager to leave. The main reason for me is the tax burden here is way too high, then there's the weather, then there's the 3rd world dysfunctional health care.

Canada would be a great move. One of the best countries which consistently ranks in the top 5 for quality of life.

My eye is set on New Zealand.

You'll be in for a shock in New Zealand if you think Irish taxes are high.

red petal · 26-04-2019 2:25pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Its a great idea if you can make it happen provided the main reason your are going is not...its always better somewhere else....If you are going for genuinely better opportunities that is different.

Also living in a new country without the support networks you have here with a partner who prefers to spend money on life luxuries rather than a secure futuer for their family is something to consider.

I don't for a second believe "it's better everywhere else" which is why I opened the discussion. It's not a decision I would take lightly so want to hear different opinions.

cnocbui · 26-04-2019 2:25pm

yagan wrote: »

You'll be in for a shock in New Zealand if you think Irish taxes are high.

I don't think so.

VAT in Ireland is 23%, GST in NZ is 15% - so not only does Ireland tax indivudals more highly, it taxes more highly when it comes to consumption.

A lot of people are confused, as taxation is most often expressed as a percentage of GDP, which is great for economists but entirely misleading for individuals. Ireland looks great in terms of taxation as a percentage of GDP because the GDP is very high, due to large US based multinationals, like Apple, inflating and skewing the figures dramatically, while the corporate tax rate is very low, which means a greater proportion of Ireland's tax take is from individuals.

You need to calculate the non corporate tax burden per capita, in order to get a more relevant picture of the individual tax burden. Which for Ireland comes to roughly USD$2,000 per head higher than in NZ. I suspect the difference is actually greater than that but am still looking for figures for number of tax payers rather than raw total population.

Thoughts on Moving Abroad - Possibly Canada

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