Where's the deterrent for shіthead scumbags in society?

dundalkfc10 · 25-04-2019 12:26pm

One way Dundalk can get rid of scum roaming the streets, robberies etc is BRING THE RA BACK TO SORT THEM OUT!

I bet a good % of people around here would agree

Hal3000 · 25-04-2019 12:29pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

More upper class liberals than the old school left.

One of the reasons for this is there is less crime in rich areas, and one of the reasons for that is there are more police in rich areas. I know this because I see more police activity in the leafy north Dublin county town I live in than I saw in the north city working class estate I grew up in. Even now if rowdy kids from working class estates turn up here and do what they do in those estates (be rowdy, occasional gangs of shoplifters, etc) a few paddy wagons turn up while in their own backyard the police are as rare as hens teeth.

The criminals are aware of this too which is why the attacks on the old are on the old and poor, not the old and rich though the latter have more money or jewellery hanging about.

Agree, coupled with the simple fact that criminals know it'll be most likey a supsended sentence or short custodial sentence for their crimes, and there is no political party willing to tackle the issue. This provides these thugs with a buffet of criminal opportunities up and down the country. We now need a strong repeal like movement to overhaul our lenient justice system.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 1:04pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You have literally said nothing concrete to this effect.

Basically you don't want a justice system. You don't even give an alternative here. Just don't lock people up.

Absolutely.

I never said I want no justice system. I also never said I don't lock people up. Instead of assuming what I think, you could simply ask what I think. That's what I've done with the posters here and it's genuinely fascinating to see what people think and how deep (or shallow) the logic behind it is.

You could keep assuming what I think but as we've seen from your assumption above that I think "just don't lock people up" and the fool who thought I was a woman collecting data for my blog about ignorant men (4 assumptions and all 4 were wrong).

reg114 · 25-04-2019 1:05pm

Crock Rock wrote: »

I just walked past a car parked outside a takeaway. There was a GPS on the dashboard, still illuminated.

As I walked past the car, filthy scum who were congregating nearby walked over and attempted to open the door. Just at that moment, the owner of the car who it turned out was a delivery driver appeared out of the door of the takeaway and ran them.

I'm sure if he hadn't appeared or there wasn't anyone else around, then they probably would have smashed the window to retrieve the GPS because there'd be absolutely no consequences for them.

Why is there no consequences for being scum vermin in Ireland?

To answer your question there is very little deterrent because there is no political will. Time Square Manhattan in the 80s was a cesspit of porn shops pimps pushing drugs and petty crime,very different from the epicentre of tourism and glitz that it is now and that was primarily to the then Mayor Guiliani tackling the antisocial behaviour with a zero tolerance policy. The cops put so much pressure on the criminals they eventually left the area, this coupled with a policy of dissuading adult shops and attracting legitimate family friendly retailers to the area all resulted in the Time Square you see today.

Irish politicians seem to live in the dark ages when it comes to being in any way proactive about anything. I can think of literally only 3 incidences in the last 30 years when the body politic in this country demonstrated forethought and were applauded, 1 The plastic bag ban 2. The cigarette ban in workplaces 3. the decision to hold the same sex marriage referendum.

As the policing authority report published only today suggests, the gardai in this country are falling shockingly short of reaching even basic targets when it comes to crime detection. When they do attempt to prosecute a crime they come up against a victorian judiciary that is simply out of touch. The judiciary in turn are provided little guidance by legislation which is also wholly insufficient and outdated. The very notion that anyone should benefit from remittance off their custodial sentence because of 'good behaviour' is utterly ridiculous. In fact everyone factors in remittance in advance of any sentence even beginning. Sentences thus are too lenient and the criminals know this. How many times have we read about some junkie before the courts for the 98th time and he then gets a suspended sentence because he he grew up with no father figure? Nonsense.

The capital city in the country is a fraction of the population of Manhattan and should be easy to police but the gardai themselves could be described in one word, apathetic.

The penal system itself is no deterrent. The notion that you have access to a tv in jail is laughable. The notion that there is unfettered access to drugs in jail is ludicrous. I laugh when I see former Mountjoy Governor in the media spouting his advice, especially given he presided over an epidemic of drugs within his own facility. Prisoners should fear prison and not see it as a glorified hotel. Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. The irony is that the Irish population is so much smaller and offenders are so much more docile than their American counterparts primarily because of the lack of guns. Crime should be so much more under control here than it is.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 1:07pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I've no interest in the views of ideological leftists who arrogantly believe they know what's best in these circumstances, the left have written policy re_ delinquency this past several decades and its been an abject failure

Lol. Without even reading the research or knowing anything about the authors your able to make those assertions with such confidence. Wish I had that kind of confidence!

But you didn't answer the question which was if you dismiss the research, then how do you figure out what works and what doesn't?

minikin · 25-04-2019 1:14pm

Evict them and if they’re homeowners demolish their homes... any little scrote dealing drugs or being a general scummer loses their or their parents home.

Plenty of advance notice - applies to crimes committed 1 month after a nationwide campaign - be an anti-social asshole and it impacts directly on you or your family.

Fair warning.

begbysback · 25-04-2019 1:17pm

reg114 wrote: »

To answer your question there is very little deterrent because there is no political will. Time Square Manhattan in the 80s was a cesspit of porn shops pimps pushing drugs and petty crime,very different from the epicentre of tourism and glitz that it is now and that was primarily to the then Mayor Guiliani tackling the antisocial behaviour with a zero tolerance policy. The cops put so much pressure on the criminals they eventually left the area, this coupled with a policy of dissuading adult shops and attracting legitimate family friendly retailers to the area all resulted in the Time Square you see today.

Irish politicians seem to live in the dark ages when it comes to being in any way proactive about anything. I can think of literally only 3 incidences in the last 30 years when the body politic in this country demonstrated forethought and were applauded, 1 The plastic bag ban 2. The cigarette ban in workplaces 3. the decision to hold the same sex marriage referendum.

As the policing authority report published only today suggests, the gardai in this country are falling shockingly short of reaching even basic targets when it comes to crime detection. When they do attempt to prosecute a crime they come up against a victorian judiciary that is simply out of touch. The judiciary in turn are provided little guidance by legislation which is also wholly insufficient and outdated. The very notion that anyone should benefit from remittance off their custodial sentence because of 'good behaviour' is utterly ridiculous. In fact everyone factors in remittance in advance of any sentence even beginning. Sentences thus are too lenient and the criminals know this. How many times have we read about some junkie before the courts for the 98th time and he then gets a suspended sentence because he he grew up with no father figure? Nonsense.

The capital city in the country is a fraction of the population of Manhattan and should be easy to police but the gardai themselves could be described in one word, apathetic.

The penal system itself is no deterrent. The notion that you have access to a tv in jail is laughable. The notion that there is unfettered access to drugs in jail is ludicrous. I laugh when I see former Mountjoy Governor in the media spouting his advice, especially given he presided over an epidemic of drugs within his own facility. Prisoners should fear prison and not see it as a glorified hotel. Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. The irony is that the Irish population is so much smaller and offenders are so much more docile than their American counterparts primarily because of the lack of guns. Crime should be so much more under control here than it is.

In short
1) apply zero tolerance to move criminals from one area to another
2) apply same logic to crime as the smoking ban
3) take away prisoner remission for good behavior
4) take away tv from prisoners
5) somehow do what no other prison in the world has achieved and eradicate drugs from prisons

See any problem here?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 25-04-2019 1:19pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I never said I want no justice system. I also never said I don't lock people up. Instead of assuming what I think, you could simply ask what I think. That's what I've done with the posters here and it's genuinely fascinating to see what people think and how deep (or shallow) the logic behind it is.

I’ve asked you numerous times. You have no proposals. You ask questions about what should be done with the perps on the recent case and when I give you an answer you then ask why 10 and not 5, implying that any period of lock up is purely arbitrary. The last sentence is a slight put down (we are to infer that everybody’s logic except yours is shallow? The opposite in fact).

You could keep assuming what I think but as we've seen from your assumption above that I think "just don't lock people up" and the fool who thought I was a woman collecting data for my blog about ignorant men (4 assumptions and all 4 were wrong).

We are still not actually getting what you think concretely think on specific cases.

It’s also not my or other poster’s job here to work out what you think, why do you need a question at all? Every time someone mentions locking people up you have scorned the idea. You keep saying there’s a better way. There are no concrete examples but you are clearly hostile to incarceration, while also hostile to people thinking you are hostile to incarceration.

But here goes. What should happen to the gangs terrorising old folks when caught.

The fact that you are responding to me and including in your reply what someone else might have said is typical of your misdirection. Again it’s a logical fallacy, somebody got four things wrong about you, I also said something about you, so therefore I am wrong.

Edit.

Actually you said this.

Locking people up is the most basic and unthinking thing to do. It does nothing for the victim or the criminal. It removes then from the streets for a while then they're back out to commit more crime.

And yet apparently it’s a misrepresentation to say you are opposed to locking people up.

Hal3000 · 25-04-2019 1:19pm

reg114 wrote: »

To answer your question there is very little deterrent because there is no political will. Time Square Manhattan in the 80s was a cesspit of porn shops pimps pushing drugs and petty crime,very different from the epicentre of tourism and glitz that it is now and that was primarily to the then Mayor Guiliani tackling the antisocial behaviour with a zero tolerance policy. The cops put so much pressure on the criminals they eventually left the area, this coupled with a policy of dissuading adult shops and attracting legitimate family friendly retailers to the area all resulted in the Time Square you see today.

Irish politicians seem to live in the dark ages when it comes to being in any way proactive about anything. I can think of literally only 3 incidences in the last 30 years when the body politic in this country demonstrated forethought and were applauded, 1 The plastic bag ban 2. The cigarette ban in workplaces 3. the decision to hold the same sex marriage referendum.

As the policing authority report published only today suggests, the gardai in this country are falling shockingly short of reaching even basic targets when it comes to crime detection. When they do attempt to prosecute a crime they come up against a victorian judiciary that is simply out of touch. The judiciary in turn are provided little guidance by legislation which is also wholly insufficient and outdated. The very notion that anyone should benefit from remittance off their custodial sentence because of 'good behaviour' is utterly ridiculous. In fact everyone factors in remittance in advance of any sentence even beginning. Sentences thus are too lenient and the criminals know this. How many times have we read about some junkie before the courts for the 98th time and he then gets a suspended sentence because he he grew up with no father figure? Nonsense.

The capital city in the country is a fraction of the population of Manhattan and should be easy to police but the gardai themselves could be described in one word, apathetic.

The penal system itself is no deterrent. The notion that you have access to a tv in jail is laughable. The notion that there is unfettered access to drugs in jail is ludicrous. I laugh when I see former Mountjoy Governor in the media spouting his advice, especially given he presided over an epidemic of drugs within his own facility. Prisoners should fear prison and not see it as a glorified hotel. Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. The irony is that the Irish population is so much smaller and offenders are so much more docile than their American counterparts primarily because of the lack of guns. Crime should be so much more under control here than it is.

Well said. It's totally achievable to have a safer country, but it needs a brave - new political party to tackle the issues.

bullpost · 25-04-2019 1:29pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Well said. It's totally achievable to have a safer country, but it needs a brave - new political party to tackle the issues.

reg114 wrote: »

To answer your question there is very little deterrent because there is no political will. Time Square Manhattan in the 80s was a cesspit of porn shops pimps pushing drugs and petty crime,very different from the epicentre of tourism and glitz that it is now and that was primarily to the then Mayor Guiliani tackling the antisocial behaviour with a zero tolerance policy. The cops put so much pressure on the criminals they eventually left the area, this coupled with a policy of dissuading adult shops and attracting legitimate family friendly retailers to the area all resulted in the Time Square you see today.

Irish politicians seem to live in the dark ages when it comes to being in any way proactive about anything. I can think of literally only 3 incidences in the last 30 years when the body politic in this country demonstrated forethought and were applauded, 1 The plastic bag ban 2. The cigarette ban in workplaces 3. the decision to hold the same sex marriage referendum.

As the policing authority report published only today suggests, the gardai in this country are falling shockingly short of reaching even basic targets when it comes to crime detection. When they do attempt to prosecute a crime they come up against a victorian judiciary that is simply out of touch. The judiciary in turn are provided little guidance by legislation which is also wholly insufficient and outdated. The very notion that anyone should benefit from remittance off their custodial sentence because of 'good behaviour' is utterly ridiculous. In fact everyone factors in remittance in advance of any sentence even beginning. Sentences thus are too lenient and the criminals know this. How many times have we read about some junkie before the courts for the 98th time and he then gets a suspended sentence because he he grew up with no father figure? Nonsense.

The capital city in the country is a fraction of the population of Manhattan and should be easy to police but the gardai themselves could be described in one word, apathetic.

The penal system itself is no deterrent. The notion that you have access to a tv in jail is laughable. The notion that there is unfettered access to drugs in jail is ludicrous. I laugh when I see former Mountjoy Governor in the media spouting his advice, especially given he presided over an epidemic of drugs within his own facility. Prisoners should fear prison and not see it as a glorified hotel. Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. The irony is that the Irish population is so much smaller and offenders are so much more docile than their American counterparts primarily because of the lack of guns. Crime should be so much more under control here than it is.

" Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. " - And yet the murder rate is much higher in the States so what does that tell us?

Sultan of Bling · 25-04-2019 1:45pm

bullpost wrote:

" Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. " - And yet the murder rate is much higher in the States so what does that tell us?

It tells us that if they had the same setencing structure for murder as they do over here, their murder rate would be 10 times worse.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 1:59pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I’ve asked you numerous times. You have no proposals. You ask questions about what should be done with the perps on the recent case and when I give you an answer you then ask why 10 and not 5, implying that any period of lock up is purely arbitrary. The last sentence is a slight put down (we are to infer that everybody’s logic except yours is shallow? The opposite in fact).

We are still not actually getting what you think concretely think on specific cases.

It’s also not my or other poster’s job here to work out what you think, why do you need a question at all? Every time someone mentions locking people up you have scorned the idea. You keep saying there’s a better way. There are no concrete examples but you are clearly hostile to incarceration, while also hostile to people thinking you are hostile to incarceration.

But here goes. What should happen to the gangs terrorising old folks when caught.

The fact that you are responding to me and including in your reply what someone else might have said is typical of your misdirection. Again it’s a logical fallacy, somebody got four things wrong about you, I also said something about you, so therefore I am wrong.

Edit.

Actually you said this.

And yet apparently it’s a misrepresentation to say you are opposed to locking people up.

It is a misrepresentation to say I'm opposed to locking people up. I'm completely opposed to the motion that simple locking people up is a good solution.

I've said numerous times that my main focus would be on the factors that lead to crime and addressing them to prevent and reduce crime. the victims and society would be my other main concern. Obviously incarceration is part of the equation

But if the question is how long a prison sentence would have a real impact on crime them I think you're simply asking the wrong question. If someone leaves prison as a drug addict then it doesn't matter whether they've served a week or a decade in prison. They'll most likely be back committing crime before long. So what's the solution? Longer sentences for the crimes they commit or deal with the drug problem (both drug addiction and the factors that cause people to start using drugs in the first place)

There might not be the same satisfaction for you as the focus would be on preventing crime rather than just punishing people after they commit crimes and create victims.

That's what I think.

Re making assumptions about me; the assumptions you mm are about me were demonstrably wrong. You said I think we should just not lock people up which I didn't say and dont think. You're wrong assumption added to the 4 wrong assumptions by the other poster shows how it would be much better to just ask what I think. Which you clearly took on board because you asked my view.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 2:07pm

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

It tells us that if they had the same setencing structure for murder as they do over here, their murder rate would be 10 times worse.

Lol.

So what are the factors about America that makes it so much more violent?

reg114 · 25-04-2019 2:11pm

bullpost wrote: »

" Commit murder in this country and you're free in 10 years at the most, do the same in the states and you're talking a whole life sentence or the death penalty. " - And yet the murder rate is much higher in the States so what does that tell us?

It tells us they have more guns than they have people , north of 300 million guns at last count.

bullpost · 25-04-2019 2:13pm

reg114 wrote: »

It tells us they have more guns than they have people , north of 300 million guns at last count.

Ok , so the murder rate is not linked to deterrents , but more to the availability of weapons?

James Brown · 25-04-2019 2:14pm

"what's the point?"
There's your societal problem in a nutshell.
You treat poor people like sh*t, their neighborhoods are rife with drugs and criminality. The government(s) couldn't care less once it's NIMBY. They see crappy minimum low wage jobs and rents they can't afford and owning a home is a fantasy. They grow up in that, likely bail out of school often with disinterested teachers as early as they can, if they go at all and fall into the cycle, because what's the point of doing anything else? Not supporting it just saying it's not as straight forward as one kid going to university or getting a job with good prospects OR deciding to be a scumbag hassling people in town.
The legal system is jaded because it tackles symptoms not causes. Nobody tackling causes.

riemann · 25-04-2019 2:23pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

"what's the point?"
There's your societal problem in a nutshell.
You treat poor people like sh*t, their neighborhoods are rife with drugs and criminality. The government(s) couldn't care less once it's NIMBY. They see crappy minimum low wage jobs and rents they can't afford and owning a home is a fantasy. They grow up in that, likely bail out of school often with disinterested teachers as early as they can, if they go at all and fall into the cycle, because what's the point of doing anything else? Not supporting it just saying it's not as straight forward as one kid going to university or getting a job with good prospects OR deciding to be a scumbag hassling people in town.
The legal system is jaded because it tackles symptoms not causes. Nobody tackling causes.

Absolute horse****.

It all comes down to parenting and personal responsibility.

I have a few friends from what what would be considered tough areas. With a good family upbringing they were able to go to college and better themselves.

reg114 · 25-04-2019 2:26pm

begbysback wrote: »

In short
1) apply zero tolerance to move criminals from one area to another
2) apply same logic to crime as the smoking ban
3) take away prisoner remission for good behavior
4) take away tv from prisoners
5) somehow do what no other prison in the world has achieved and eradicate drugs from prisons

See any problem here?

1. Zero tolerance actually dissuaded criminals from prospering in the area full stop. It worked for New York, it can work for Dublin or any other area

2. The smoking ban was simply an illustration of where an irish gov had done something that was positive and that was applauded, its a rare occurrence

3. absolutely deny prisoners remission, do the crime , do the time. If you misbehave your sentence should be lengthened NOT shortened because you managed to act like an adult while serving your time

4. Absolutely take away any form of prison entertainment. Prison is punishment, its not a holiday camp at the tax payers expense. Who pays for the tv ? You do. Who pays for the TV subscription ? You do. Reform should be in the form of education, schooling and psychiatric assistance, not sitting on your backside watching Jeremy kyle until your sentence is done. Id bring in chain gangs myself. Recidivists has zero respect for the rule of law or for the tax paying law abiding citizens who pay for them to languish in prison if they actually are sent to prison.

5. Of all the places in the country a prison should be the most secure of facilities. If drugs manage to get into a prison, the governor and staff of the prison should be held accountable. To accept that 'the war on drugs' cant be won even inside state controlled institutions is pathetic and lazy.

reg114 · 25-04-2019 2:33pm

bullpost wrote: »

Ok , so the murder rate is not linked to deterrents , but more to the availability of weapons?

I gave the penalty for murder as an extreme example of the penal system in the States. Most crimes in the States are punished with longer sentences than in Ireland was my point. It could be argued that America could have an even higher rate of murders if sentencing was based on the lax Irish model.

lalababa · 25-04-2019 2:46pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When Child Benefit (Childrens Allowance) was introduced in 1944, the payment was only for the third child and subsequent children. Nothing for the first two. Reverting to this or something similar would easier than sterilisation. Back in those days families in general were much larger, despite the lack of generous welfare schemes.

Would it not be better to have children s allowance for the 1st two only?? Also ...with petty type crime would a slight cut to their Dole in lue of a fine and abit of community service be the way to go? Another thing I was self employed for along time and found it v. difficult to get even a basic donkey work type job and when I did I was working with people just outa prison, it seemed to me they got the job easier than me!

Mad_maxx · 25-04-2019 2:49pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Well said. It's totally achievable to have a safer country, but it needs a brave - new political party to tackle the issues.

Left wing media would go to town on any party who produced a plan to tackle delinquency, they tore strips off Leo for saying he wanted to " prioritise those who rise early"

Leo of course backed down, nothing will change until some sort of vaguely right leaning media outlet emerges, the left control the narative

James Brown · 25-04-2019 2:54pm

riemann wrote: »

Absolute horse****.

It all comes down to parenting and personal responsibility.

I have a few friends from what what would be considered tough areas. With a good family upbringing they were able to go to college and better themselves.

So do I. Can you or they say the same generally for the 'tough' area? Why was it 'tough', built on a hill was it? Too much competition for a spot in UCD?
It's like that ar*ehole Bill Cullen thinking people could make millions if they worked hard enough just because he did.

James Brown · 25-04-2019 2:58pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Left wing media would go to town on any party who produced a plan to tackle delinquency, they tore strips off Leo for saying he wanted to " prioritise those who rise early"

Leo of course backed down, nothing will change until some sort of vaguely right leaning media outlet emerges, the left control the narative

Because Leo was pig ignorant to say such a thing. It suggests anyone having a tough time likes to take it handy. Also it takes any accountability away from his caretaker mismanagement.
Left wing media? Would this be RTE, The Indo or the Times?

Handy way of dismissing news you don't like I suppose.

James Brown · 25-04-2019 3:01pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Well said. It's totally achievable to have a safer country, but it needs a brave - new political party to tackle the issues.

Can't ever happen. Because tackling the symptoms while ignoring the causes will change absolutely nothing.

Hal3000 · 25-04-2019 3:15pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can't ever happen. Because tackling the symptoms while ignoring the causes will change absolutely nothing.

It actually can with a strong leader. Look at NYC as an example.

"Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since 1991 and, as of 2017, is among the lowest of major cities in the United States"

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 3:29pm

riemann wrote: »

Absolute horse****.

It all comes down to parenting and personal responsibility.

I have a few friends from what what would be considered tough areas. With a good family upbringing they were able to go to college and better themselves.

That stats would suggest that's not horse sh1te. Crime is more common in poor areas for lots of reasons which unfortunately can't be written off as horseshyte.

I wasn't from a poor area. I grew up in the countryside with lots of freedom and opportunity to do things. I knew everyone in the village and everyone knew me. We learned the importance of community and what happens when someone in the community is hurt through crime. "Ill tell your mother would be enough to deter lots of bad behaviour"

I'd agree that parenting has a lot to do with it but opportunity and resources like time and money are also important in parenting. I was very lucky with my parents being great. I was brought up with the expectation that I would get a good education and get a career.

Those advantages are really significant And I had absolutely no control over them. They're absolutely no result of anything I have done but I benefit from them.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 3:36pm

reg114 wrote: »

1. Zero tolerance actually dissuaded criminals from prospering in the area full stop. It worked for New York, it can work for Dublin or any other area

2. The smoking ban was simply an illustration of where an irish gov had done something that was positive and that was applauded, its a rare occurrence

3. absolutely deny prisoners remission, do the crime , do the time. If you misbehave your sentence should be lengthened NOT shortened because you managed to act like an adult while serving your time

4. Absolutely take away any form of prison entertainment. Prison is punishment, its not a holiday camp at the tax payers expense. Who pays for the tv ? You do. Who pays for the TV subscription ? You do. Reform should be in the form of education, schooling and psychiatric assistance, not sitting on your backside watching Jeremy kyle until your sentence is done. Id bring in chain gangs myself. Recidivists has zero respect for the rule of law or for the tax paying law abiding citizens who pay for them to languish in prison if they actually are sent to prison.

5. Of all the places in the country a prison should be the most secure of facilities. If drugs manage to get into a prison, the governor and staff of the prison should be held accountable. To accept that 'the war on drugs' cant be won even inside state controlled institutions is pathetic and lazy.

Do you ho early think habitual criminals sir down and do a cost benefit analysis in advance of committing a crime? This is complete fantasy stuff. But it does demonstrate how little some people know about crime.

The government is stuck between two stools because they news to satisfy the man man in the street who thinks the only thing to do is lock people up, with the fact that locking people up is really expensive and ultimately doesn't make anything better except take one single criminal off the street for a short while. Meanwhile there are plenty more criminals.

It both very expensive and almost useless. Like trying to hold back the tide with a pitch fork. Can't blame the government when the electorate has the attitude you see in this thread.

Lux23 · 25-04-2019 3:49pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Literally clown world, is there an AGM for Judges or any kind of event where they're in the same place together at any point? Asking for a friend.

Nothing to do with the Judges, it was the Guards who said they didn't have a case. Or the DPP maybe.

lalababa · 25-04-2019 4:49pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

It actually can with a strong leader. Look at NYC as an example.

"Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since 1991 and, as of 2017, is among the lowest of major cities in the United States"

How did they manage that? A zero tolerance , 3 strikes and you are out was it?

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 4:59pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

So how come New York seem to be able to do it ?

Sure. If you're willing to do something as draconian as 3 strikes and spend the rest of your life in prison, then they or a drop in crime.

At least it gets rid of the arbitrary 10 year magic sentence some posters were sticking to earlier.

Thats such an expensive policy to lock someone up for 3 petty crimes. It's incredible that you'd support that and show absolutely no interest in finding out what causes crime and want to address those issues to prevent crime in the first place.

bullpost · 25-04-2019 5:01pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

So how come New York seem to be able to do it ?

Its all relative - The murder rate there is much higher than Ireland as a whole, though closer to the Dublin rate.

James Brown · 25-04-2019 5:09pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

So how come New York seem to be able to do it ?

Hal3000 wrote: »

It actually can with a strong leader. Look at NYC as an example.

"Violent crime in New York City has been dropping since 1991 and, as of 2017, is among the lowest of major cities in the United States"

They policed Times Square better, more importantly society began to prosper, less poor, less criminality. More cops may help prevent crime but more arrests doesn't mean less crime.

Sultan of Bling · 25-04-2019 5:35pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

So what are the factors about America that makes it so much more violent?

Guns and ammo, a lots of it.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 5:37pm

Sultan of Bling wrote: »

Guns and ammo, a lots of it.

Is that it? Just down to guns? So would we see similar violence rates in other countries with similar amounts of guns?

Mad_maxx · 25-04-2019 5:50pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Because Leo was pig ignorant to say such a thing. It suggests anyone having a tough time likes to take it handy. Also it takes any accountability away from his caretaker mismanagement.
Left wing media? Would this be RTE, The Indo or the Times? Handy way of dismissing news you don't like I suppose.

All of the media here are on the left, rte is overtly leftist

Mad_maxx · 25-04-2019 5:51pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Can't ever happen. Because tackling the symptoms while ignoring the causes will change absolutely nothing.

Of course you ( like all leftists) assume you know exactly what the " cause" is.

So much so that you have been doubling down on your abject failure for the past three decades.

Panthro · 25-04-2019 5:53pm

I think someone's on a wind up.
Which is totally out of character..

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 6:25pm

Hal3000 wrote: »

Ok so let's just keep letting them back out to reoffend until we find this magical prevention solution that you keep suggesting. Until then I hope none of these guys on their path to englightment cross you.

Nothing magical about what I've suggested. It would take skills, research and resources.

As an example I suggested treating the drug problem instead of just locking up and releasing drug addicted petty criminals and waiting for them to commit more crimes and create more victims. I'm not sure why you think that's magical.

Hal3000 · 25-04-2019 6:37pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Nothing magical about what I've suggested. It would take skills, research and resources.

As an example I suggested treating the drug problem instead of just locking up and releasing drug addicted petty criminals and waiting for them to commit more crimes and create more victims. I'm not sure why you think that's magical.

You're totally on a wind up and now and changing your argument to an argument about drug addiction. I never mentioned locking up drug addicts. Not sure where you got that from?? I suggested 3 strike system or harsher sentencing. You suggest treatments - prevention and resources / research. I really wonder would you argue so hard if your life was ruined by crime ? You're born for politics with your - I'm all for it but not in my backyard attitude.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-04-2019 6:46pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Of course you ( like all leftists) assume you know exactly what the " cause" is.

So much so that you have been doubling down on your abject failure for the past three decades.

Neither that poster or me have said we know exactly whet the cause is. How have you missed that?

I've said we should find out what works. Ironically the people who Dogmatically stick to the 'sentences should be longer' are the ones who claim to know the solution.

El_Bee · 25-04-2019 8:05pm

Lux23 wrote: »

Nothing to do with the Judges, it was the Guards who said they didn't have a case. Or the DPP maybe.

The article in the evening herald expanded on the situation regarding the scumbag walking, the judge was given letters from his mother saying that he was a good boy, I wish I was joking.

James Brown · 25-04-2019 8:44pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Of course you ( like all leftists) assume you know exactly what the " cause" is.

So much so that you have been doubling down on your abject failure for the past three decades.

As a communist, you seem to think the cause of someone shooting somebody else is pulling the trigger and we need look no further.

If you think 'the left' has been running things for the last 30 years you've got problems with direction.

imme · 25-04-2019 9:45pm

Society tolerates bad behaviour, that's why we have it.

Mad_maxx · 25-04-2019 10:22pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

As a communist, you seem to think the cause of someone shooting somebody else is pulling the trigger and we need look no further.

If you think 'the left' has been running things for the last 30 years you've got problems with direction.

The left have been behind policy, who officially makes the call - signs off is irrelevant

ToddyDoody · 25-04-2019 10:33pm

cannotlogin wrote: »

Anyone else read that as "what's the detergent for scum?"

FYI... Cillit BANG.

mad muffin · 26-04-2019 12:12pm

I like Australia’s way of dealing with foreign born scum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05VnrzX4ilQ

James Brown · 26-04-2019 1:43pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The left have been behind policy, who officially makes the call - signs off is irrelevant

I hear this excuse a lot. We have FF/FG ruling the roost for decades looking after their own. Mismanaging tax payer money and currently making crises worse. Refusing to build social housing, opting for hotels and paying rent to private landlords, project cost over runs they don't know how, why, what about, despite it being their job, free diners with contractors looking for government contracts, sweet siteserv deal at a loss to the tax payer still under investigation...but because crime is bad it's People before profit or some other party averaging 1% who control the reins and poor FF/FG merely sign off due to pressure...would you ever cop on.

Mad_maxx · 26-04-2019 3:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I hear this excuse a lot. We have FF/FG ruling the roost for decades looking after their own. Mismanaging tax payer money and currently making crises worse. Refusing to build social housing, opting for hotels and paying rent to private landlords, project cost over runs they don't know how, why, what about, despite it being their job, free diners with contractors looking for government contracts, sweet siteserv deal at a loss to the tax payer still under investigation...but because crime is bad it's People before profit or some other party averaging 1% who control the reins and poor FF/FG merely sign off due to pressure...would you ever cop on.

Government ( central or local) have no interest in building houses, the percentage of local authority tenants in arrears is circa 30% despite the incredibly modest rent charged, no chance of them being evicted either, the HAP option is the cheaper policy, its left to the private landlord to deal with problem tenants, county councils avoid work like the plague, they don't want dealing with freeloaders who wreck their free homes and don't want to pay even 30 quid per week for a roof over their heads

El_Duderino 09 · 26-04-2019 7:08pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Government ( central or local) have no interest in building houses, the percentage of local authority tenants in arrears is circa 30% despite the incredibly modest rent charged, no chance of them being evicted either, the HAP option is the cheaper policy, its left to the private landlord to deal with problem tenants, county councils avoid work like the plague, they don't want dealing with freeloaders who wreck their free homes and don't want to pay even 30 quid per week for a roof over their heads

Modern governments have no interest in building houses. The socialist governments post ww2 were Interested in those things (NHS in UK is a left wing miracle that couldn't be possible with today's right wing voters and governments). But somehow now that centre right governments have been in charge for the last few decades, all the problems are the left's fault.

You're veering into conspiracy theory territory there.

If the lefties were in charge there would be much more focus on restorative justice, rehabilitation for drug addicts, better education for poorer areas, better social mobility, better prospects and ultimately, lower crime rates.

But fewer crimes would mean less punishment. And I think punishment is ultimately the main thing for some people.

Hal3000 · 26-04-2019 10:52pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/dundalk-4608976-Apr2019/

Seems this is now a regular thing in Ireland, but don't lock them up, let's explore why they do it ????

3 strike and you're out campaign has to be started up in this kip we now live in.

Where's the deterrent for shіthead scumbags in society?

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