Indeed 'creates' 600 jobs...

Captainsatnav · 24-04-2019 10:10am #1

...over next 5 years (always amused by that qualifying statement on 'major job announcements). Anyway - that's another 600 apartments and extra public transport capacity needed...plenty of spare capacity out there as it is and Cork, Limerick and Waterford are full to capacity of course.

whiskeyman · 24-04-2019 12:56pm

Lots more of this so:
https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/apartment-share/kilmacud/drummartin-road-kilmacud-dublin-1079446?utm_campaign=property_alert_email_sharing&utm_medium=email&ea=1&utm_source=property_alert

Captainsatnav · 24-04-2019 1:30pm

:mad::mad:
I presume Daft just say that they're a portal facilitating exchanges between l lord and renters and have no responsibility for the quality or morals of the lettings...?

miamee · 24-04-2019 2:12pm

Have you reported the ad to see what they say?

Captainsatnav · 24-04-2019 3:10pm

miamee wrote: »

Have you reported the ad to see what they say?

I have indeed

Del2005 · 24-04-2019 3:14pm

Captainsatnav wrote: »

I have indeed

Reported for what? Its an unfurnished room in a house share. Not everyone renting needs a furnished property or room.

L1011 · 24-04-2019 3:25pm

Tech firms would often rather get no IDA assistance at all than go outside of Dublin, preferably the docks if they're seen as young/early stage firms. Only more established firms are willing to head away from the docks, e.g. Microsoft and now Facebook.

There is nothing that would make most of them go to Cork/Waterford/Limerick.

Amirani · 24-04-2019 3:32pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Reported for what? Its an unfurnished room in a house share. Not everyone renting needs a furnished property or room.

This. I would've thought that €400 per month for a room in a house share is reasonably normal these days. If someone wants to pay that, then what's the problem with it?

gibgodsman · 24-04-2019 3:56pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Reported for what? Its an unfurnished room in a house share. Not everyone renting needs a furnished property or room.

Clearly a tenant whom is renting out a living room, which I am quite sure is illegal.

Del2005 · 24-04-2019 9:17pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Clearly a tenant whom is renting out a living room, which I am quite sure is illegal.

Renting a living room illegal. Its not.

Marcusm · 24-04-2019 10:45pm

L1011 wrote: »

Tech firms would often rather get no IDA assistance at all than go outside of Dublin, preferably the docks if they're seen as young/early stage firms. Only more established firms are willing to head away from the docks, e.g. Microsoft and now Facebook.

There is nothing that would make most of them go to Cork/Waterford/Limerick.

Especially for those who want to tap into the growing multilingual skill add of inside sales and business development reps for their services.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-04-2019 10:49pm

Plenty of doleites that have never worked a day in their life getting homes/apartments given to them by the state that could easily fook off to rural Leitrim to make room for these newcomers who will finance their lifestyle.

s_mcloughlin · 27-04-2019 9:42pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

Clearly a tenant whom is renting out a living room, which I am quite sure is illegal.

Its something that I've seen/heard of being done a few times, and is probably more popular with students - no sitting room and one extra tenant, but rent could be reduced by €100 or more per month. Not that bad of a trade off imo

Muahahaha · 27-04-2019 10:04pm

Saw a stat late last year that said in Dublin the office space currently under construction is enough for 60,000 new workspaces. You'd really have to wonder where all these people are going to live, the residential construction sector is a way off building for those kind of numbers.

fryup · 28-04-2019 11:34am

600jobs

i can't get my head around that? to me indeed is a very basic website with jobs advertised..a donedeal for the jobs market....where does the 600 jobs come into it?

Marcusm · 28-04-2019 11:50am

fryup wrote: »

600jobs

i can't get my head around that? to me indeed is a very basic website with jobs advertised..a donedeal for the jobs market....where does the 600 jobs come into it?

Convincing agencies and companies throughout Europe to pay for a listing on indeed - inside sales and bus development “representatives”, associates etc. Presumably also some multilingual content verification etc.

hmmm · 28-04-2019 9:31pm

The economy must be doing well when people are complaining about new jobs. We should be glad to have the Dublin IT hub, there's lots of countries who would love to steal those jobs and taxes from us.

fryup · 28-04-2019 9:40pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^

if that was aimed at me i'm not complaining at all...i'm just saying to me as a layman indeed looks like a website developed by a student on work experience, its very basic

fryup · 29-04-2019 11:41am

^^^^^^^^^^^

how much do they charge an employer to advertise a job?

PaulieC · 29-04-2019 12:01pm

L1011 wrote: »

Tech firms would often rather get no IDA assistance at all than go outside of Dublin, preferably the docks if they're seen as young/early stage firms. Only more established firms are willing to head away from the docks, e.g. Microsoft and now Facebook.

There is nothing that would make most of them go to Cork/Waterford/Limerick.

Microsoft have never been based in the docks (apart from maybe then why acquired Visio who were in one of the buildings that Google now occupy in GCD). They've always been based in Sandyford/Leopardstown. They curently have office somewhere in town (probably around Harcourt St.) for MS employees and also LinkedIn and Havoc had offices in town, but they were also ascquisitions.

Ush1 · 29-04-2019 1:31pm

PaulieC wrote: »

Microsoft have never been based in the docks (apart from maybe then why acquired Visio who were in one of the buildings that Google now occupy in GCD). They've always been based in Sandyford/Leopardstown. They curently have office somewhere in town (probably around Harcourt St.) for MS employees and also LinkedIn and Havoc had offices in town, but they were also ascquisitions.

Microsofts first Irish office was actually in Blackrock.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 4:54pm

What I dont understand is why there are so many of these service centre type jobs being created in Dublin? Most of these jobs will be in support type activity paying between 30-45k.

No where near enough to buy in Dublin and people will be using 50%+ of their earning paying rent. This salary in other parts of Ireland would go much further. In likes of Waterford you would be able to buy property or use a much lower % of your take home pay if renting. This is better for everyone. The concentration these types of job in Dublin needs to stop. All it serves to to put stress on those working in those jobs and more stress on the already insufficient housing in Dublin, and insufficient infrastructure.

Amirani · 29-04-2019 4:59pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

No where near enough to buy in Dublin and people will be using 50%+ of their earning paying rent. This salary in other parts of Ireland would go much further. In likes of Waterford you would be able to buy property or use a much lower % of your take home pay if renting. This is better for everyone. The concentration these types of job in Dublin needs to stop. All it serves to to put stress on those working in those jobs and more stress on the already insufficient housing in Dublin, and insufficient infrastructure.

The companies and the employees want to be in Dublin, not in Waterford. The employees by and large would rather pay 50% of their rent and live in Dublin than 25% and live in Waterford.

What do you suggest we do, tell Indeed they're not allowed create these jobs in Dublin?

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 5:07pm

The companies and the employees want to be in Dublin, not in Waterford. The employees by and large would rather pay 50% of their rent and live in Dublin than 25% and live in Waterford.

What do you suggest we do, tell Indeed they're not allowed create these jobs in Dublin?

I suggest that there is a proper work plan for the country. That companies like Indeed are incentivised to open offices in other part of the country.

Most people come to Dublin because this is where most jobs are. If there was more of a spread around the country there wouldn't be such a drive for everyone to get to Dublin to work.

Regarding "employees would rather pay 50% rent and live in Dublin" Where are pulling that from? Dublin rent is extortion and I would say the vast majority would work else where if the jobs were available and pay a fraction of the rent. Money they could save to buy a house or for the their children instead of forking rent over to a cuckoo investor companies every month.

Amirani · 29-04-2019 5:13pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Regarding "employees would rather pay 50% rent and live in Dublin" Where are pulling that from? Dublin rent is extortion and I would say the vast majority would work else where if the jobs were available and pay a fraction of the rent. Money they could save to buy a house or for the their children instead of forking rent over to a cuckoo investor companies every month.

Me, most people I work with and most of my social group would make such a choice, and do. Living in a lively European capital with all that that brings is much more important than having enough money to afford a house, at least in your 20s.

My own company has offices in all cities in Ireland, and people can effectively work wherever they want without any impact on your salary. Guess what? Pretty much everyone chooses to live in either Dublin or Cork.

hmmm · 29-04-2019 6:46pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

If there was more of a spread around the country there wouldn't be such a drive for everyone to get to Dublin to work.

These firms want to be in a cluster, not "spread around the country" - they recruit staff from other firms in the same industry, the senior execs want to network with other senior execs, they think there is a business advantage to their staff being part of a cluster. Dublin is a tech cluster, and we should be glad to have it because there is few other locations like it in Europe.

If towns down the country want to try and compete, why don't they build the right infrastructure - get broadband into their towns and not every boreen which will take forever, build offices remote workers can work out of, build the greenways which will make their towns more attractive to live in (and less effort building pointless railways to "attract industry").

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 8:17pm

Me, most people I work with and most of my social group would make such a choice, and do. Living in a lively European capital with all that that brings is much more important than having enough money to afford a house, at least in your 20s.

My own company has offices in all cities in Ireland, and people can effectively work wherever they want without any impact on your salary. Guess what? Pretty much everyone chooses to live in either Dublin or Cork.

Priorities of people change massively outside of your 20s, obviously when your are young a larger city is attractive to go out , meet people etc. I Imagine most people in your circle are not thinking purchasing a house or paying for creche, and are more likely enjoying the night life.

But once priorities change being able to provide a roof and good life for your family become more important.

salmocab · 29-04-2019 8:22pm

Land and rental costs are lower outside Dublin, they could probably pay people less too and yet they still pick Dublin so there’s obviously a lot more to it.
Tech companies in Silicon Valley are the same all clustered together where rents etc are high yet they still all group together.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 8:28pm

These firms want to be in a cluster, not "spread around the country" - they recruit staff from other firms in the same industry, the senior execs want to network with other senior execs, they think there is a business advantage to their staff being part of a cluster. Dublin is a tech cluster, and we should be glad to have it because there is few other locations like it in Europe.

If towns down the country want to try and compete, why don't they build the right infrastructure - get broadband into their towns and not every boreen which will take forever, build offices remote workers can work out of, build the greenways which will make their towns more attractive to live in (and less effort building pointless railways to "attract industry").

The other side of the tech cluster is hyper inflated salaries and difficulties retaining staff. Part of the reason for the high prices in Dublin is because there are so many highly paid skilled tech workers.

However my point is most of these jobs in Amazon and Indeed will be support type jobs, not earning the same salaries as Software Engineers or UX designers. My point is that the highly technical jobs can remain in Dublin where those salaries can provide a good standard of living for families, but the support and shared service roles do not, and could be done anywhere with a much high quality of living.

Most major towns and cities Ireland have broad band, must have been quite a while since you last visited. Waterford has the largest Greenway in the country, perhaps larger offices are needed.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 8:38pm

Land and rental costs are lower outside Dublin, they could probably pay people less too and yet they still pick Dublin so there’s obviously a lot more to it.
Tech companies in Silicon Valley are the same all clustered together where rents etc are high yet they still all group together.

Indeed the Tech companies grouped together in Silicon Valley and salaries went through the roof and inflated prices in the area for everything.

The average house in San Franciso is €1.6 million dollars. Unless you are extremely well paid there is no way you can live there. That is the other side of the Tech Hub. Property ownership becomes a luxury for only highest earners.

While it is a good thing these jobs are coming to Ireland. Many of the support jobs can be done in other parts which will make life better for people in other parts of the country and in Dublin by reducing pressure on the rental and property markets.

odyssey06 · 29-04-2019 8:41pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

While it is a good thing these jobs are coming to Ireland. Many of the support jobs can be done in other parts which will make life better for people in the county and in Dublin by reducing pressure on the rental and property markets.

If they can be done that easily outside Dublin though, it implies they could be done just as easily outside Ireland.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 8:43pm

If they can be done that easily outside Dublin though, it implies they could be done just as easily outside Ireland

.

You don't get 12.5% corporate tax rate outside of Ireland or anywhere else in the EU. That is the real reason all those companies are here.

odyssey06 · 29-04-2019 8:47pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

.
You don't get 12.5% corporate tax rate outside of Ireland. That is the real reason all those companies are here.

Amnt a corporation tax expert but I dont think that means all staff need to be in Ireland or evem the EU - only the hq and sales booking.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 9:00pm

The millions and billions they save in taxes more than makes up for any salaries they have to pay here. Most of these tech companies are not Irish and do and bases/offices all over the world but run their HQ and EU bases through Ireland to take advantage of our tax rates.

They need to show investment in Ireland however, to set up here and create jobs. They can't just open a tiny office and run everything through it. The EU needs to see that they are properly invested in Ireland and not just using us a tax heaven (which they pretty much are).

strandroad · 29-04-2019 9:03pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

My point is that the highly technical jobs can remain in Dublin where those salaries can provide a good standard of living for families, but the support and shared service roles do not, and could be done anywhere with a much high quality of living.

Most major towns and cities Ireland have broad band, must have been quite a while since you last visited. Waterford has the largest Greenway in the country, perhaps larger offices are needed.

Such support or sales jobs are servicing the entire EU and are largely multilingual. You won't find many Portuguese, Swedish or Italian speakers in Waterford; and younger European millennials on their equivalent of Irish Australia jaunts want to live in a large enough city not in Athlone or Letterkenny.

odyssey06 · 29-04-2019 9:09pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

The millions and billions they save in taxes more than makes up for any salaries they have to pay here. Most of these tech companies are not Irish and do and bases/offices all over the world but run their HQ and EU bases through Ireland to take advantage of our tax rates.

Couldnt you say the same thing about the salary or rent differences for Dublin or Cork v rest of Ireland?

If they could pack 250 of the jobs off to Athlone that would still leave a base in Dublin. And if in Athlone why not in Kracow or Idaho or Lisbon.

A lot of these companies make great play of all staff being part of the same culture. Maybe its nonsense. But it seems to be one of the factors in why they want the hub oriented and internal support staff in same office.

d15ude · 29-04-2019 9:12pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

However my point is most of these jobs in Amazon and Indeed will be support type jobs, not earning the same salaries as Software Engineers or UX designers. My point is that the highly technical jobs can remain in Dublin where those salaries can provide a good standard of living for families

.

Most of these jobs are for younger professionals from all over Europe.
They want to be in a lively big city and close to an international airport.
They don't want to buy houses in Waterford.
Inside sales Jobs in Indeed will get you 90k, you can survive on that in Dublin.

MartyMcFly84 · 29-04-2019 9:24pm

Most of these jobs are for younger professionals from all over Europe.
They want to be in a lively big city and close to an international airport.
They don't want to buy houses in Waterford.
Inside sales Jobs in Indeed will get you 90k, you can survive on that in Dublin.

I dont think the majority of the jobs will be close to 90k. Some certainly will but no way most.

My thoughts are where are these 600 people going to live? Maybe not these particular jobs but in General something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the Dublin housing crisis, and as you can tell my opinion would be to encourage more job creation in other parts.

Do you not see any issue, or do you think its fine that most of the job creation continues to be around Dublin and are not worried about the knock on effect?

helimachoptor · 29-04-2019 9:31pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I dont think the majority of the jobs will be close to 90k. Some certainly will but no way most.

My thoughts are where are these 600 people going to live? Maybe not these particular jobs but in General something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the Dublin housing crisis, and as you can tell my opinion would be to encourage more job creation in other parts.

Do you not see any issue, or do you think its fine that most of the job creation continues to be around Dublin and are not worried about the knock on effect?

Indeed sales exec hitting (very reasonable) targets will be earning circa €90K
45K base + 45K commision, its likely that base will be move up to 50-55K this year so a sales exec purely down to the B2B SaaS sales exec staff merrygo round.

odyssey06 · 29-04-2019 9:32pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I dont think the majority of the jobs will be close to 90k. Some certainly will but no way most.

My thoughts are where are these 600 people going to live? Maybe not these particular jobs but in General something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the Dublin housing crisis, and as you can tell my opinion would be to encourage more job creation in other parts.

Do you not see any issue, or do you think its fine that most of the job creation continues to be around Dublin and are not worried about the knock on effect?

Not disagreeing with your concerns on the concentration but there are reasons for it. Dublin needs an elected mayor with a budget who can respond to the problems of success. And other citied need directly elected mayors who can promote their regions.

I dont think the solution will come from trying to decentralise Indeed who choose to locate in this country from a choice of many - when the government struggles to decentralise itself.

hmmm · 29-04-2019 10:36pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

My thoughts are where are these 600 people going to live? Maybe not these particular jobs but in General something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the Dublin housing crisis, and as you can tell my opinion would be to encourage more job creation in other parts.

The IDA would be more than happy for Indeed (or whoever) to move to some other area, but these types of firms generally don't want to. It's a choice of Dublin or somewhere like Holland.

There is no housing crisis in Dublin that can't be fixed by building taller in the city centre. It's NIMBYism and objections that are preventing builds from going ahead. The large number of young, well educated and well paid immigrants who we will attract to fill many of these jobs will be more than happy to live in a city centre apartment.

Nermal · 30-04-2019 11:10am

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

All it serves to to put stress on those working in those jobs and more stress on the already insufficient housing in Dublin, and insufficient infrastructure.

So build the housing, build the infrastructure. Fund it from Dublin's property tax, instead of spending it on Leitrim.

markpb · 30-04-2019 12:19pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

Maybe not these particular jobs but in General something needs to be done to ease the pressure on the Dublin housing crisis, and as you can tell my opinion would be to encourage more job creation in other parts.

The government has spent many years encouraging companies to invest in the rest of the country and it hasn't worked. The IDA has spent millions building offices and warehouses and providing incentives for companies. There are (or have been) millions more available in grants for companies to setup along the border and in the west of Ireland. At some stage, we need to realise that it's unlikely (but certainly not impossible) that a large multi-national is going to invest in Waterford, especially if it's the first in it's industry to go there.

What is more likely to happen and, what is far more likely to succeed, is for us to make it as easy as possible for people to start and grow small businesses. Those are the kind of businesses that are more likely to be distributed around the country because they'll be based in their locality.

30-04-2019 5:53pm

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^

how much do they charge an employer to advertise a job?

There's not going to be any straightforward answer to that. It depends on a lot of things, the client size, the level of support they're getting, the prominence of their ads, etc.

This "where will they live" stuff isn't a real concern any more so than it was before this announcement. They're hiring 120 people per year, it's a drop in the ocean. I guarantee that Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Amazon and Microsoft are hiring above that rate in Dublin but they just don't have press releases for it. Google are buying up everything around Macken St, Facebook are moving into Bank Centre, Amazon taking a huge office on Charlemont St, LinkedIn trying to build a campus around Wilton Terrace, etc.

And when it comes to the amount of travel these people do, visiting clients or attracting people from outside Ireland, being in Waterford or Sligo just does not make sense.

beauf · 30-04-2019 6:14pm

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/we-cant-force-foreign-firms-to-locate-to-rural-areas-ida-29930832.html

Are their any reports showing how how much funding is allocated outside of Dublin?

Marcusm · 30-04-2019 6:48pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

The other side of the tech cluster is hyper inflated salaries and difficulties retaining staff. Part of the reason for the high prices in Dublin is because there are so many highly paid skilled tech workers.

However my point is most of these jobs in Amazon and Indeed will be support type jobs, not earning the same salaries as Software Engineers or UX designers. My point is that the highly technical jobs can remain in Dublin where those salaries can provide a good standard of living for families, but the support and shared service roles do not, and could be done anywhere with a much high quality of living.

Most major towns and cities Ireland have broad band, must have been quite a while since you last visited. Waterford has the largest Greenway in the country, perhaps larger offices are needed.

Sales, support and shared services generally require multilingual staff as they are EMEA not Ireland-focused. Like it or not, it will be difficult to build scale in multilingual skills outside Dublin. It’s hard for these to be organised in satellite office as co-location makes it easier to keep cobsistency. The alternative is the jobs not being in Ireland. Mini centres can work in Cork, Galway, Limerick etc but if you are Indeed and you know there is a recruitment base from the existing tech companies with similar ops, you establish in the same locale and seed your operation with hires from those other companies.

beauf · 30-04-2019 7:14pm

Marcusm wrote: »

...it will be difficult to build scale in multilingual skills outside Dublin. ...

Is be surprised if that's true anymore. Lots of immigrants are multilingual. They are scattered all over the country.

salmocab · 30-04-2019 7:17pm

beauf wrote: »

Is be surprised if that's true anymore. Lots of immigrants are multilingual. They are scattered all over the country.

They need to be multilingual, be able to do the job need work and be in the right town. It’s not enough to have some people who speak Portuguese and Spanish living in a town.

beauf · 30-04-2019 9:48pm

The right town seems to Dublin. No other choices apparently. Well your workforce can't afford to live there...

salmocab · 30-04-2019 9:59pm

beauf wrote: »

The right town seems to Dublin. No other choices apparently. Well your workforce can't afford to live there...

It’s not that are no other choices but a business has to look at a lot of things when they open an office or expand. They need people with the right qualifications, experience or abilities. If they feel they could get them elsewhere they would go because to run it elsewhere in Ireland would be cheaper. I really can’t think anyone is surprised at this. If the workforce can’t afford to live in Dublin then they won’t get the staff but I’m sure these companies are getting the staff so it follows that they can afford it.

30-04-2019 10:19pm

beauf wrote: »

The right town seems to Dublin. No other choices apparently. Well your workforce can't afford to live there...

Who says the Indeed workforce can't afford to live in Dublin?

Not only that, but a lot of this 600 could well live in Dublin already.

Indeed 'creates' 600 jobs...

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