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Are solicitors and Barristers allowed to lie

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  • 20-04-2021 5:11pm
    #1
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭


    I was wondering if Legal representatives are allowed tell lies in courts and hearing of designated bodies?
    if they are, and they do so in order to make their client's name look good and their clients opposite's name look bad does this constitute an interference with the duty of the state to protect good names of citizen?


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    #2
    Fake Scores
    Closed Accounts Posts: 168 ✭✭Fake Scores


    Obviously not.
    That would be professional misconduct and contempt of Court.
    Ultimate sanction could be losing licence to practice.

    Now, if you're asking do solicitors, judges, politicians, priests, doctors, police, chiropractors etc ever deviate from honesty, truth and virtue?

    Again, No. No one ever lies.


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    #3
    feelings
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭feelings


    "...according to the best of my knowledge, information and belief..." is their go to.


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    #4
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    But when these legal people actually know that they are telling deliberate fraudulent misrepresentations, and Ireland glories in this deed, where can I go to?


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    #5
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,544 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Legal representation will frame their clients case in the manner most advantageous to their client.

    The legal system in Ireland is adversarial.
    Should one side lie in a case, it is quite a simple matter for any prepared and competent practitioner to challenge the spurious claim of fact and in doing so present evidence to refute those claims.

    Did your legal representation present anything in refutation of the lies of the other side?

    Legal practitioners do not lie, they make errors or have been provided incorrect information in forming their case and opinion.
    Again however, it would be for the other side to refute those errors with factual and evidential rebuttal.


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    #6
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Red Hare wrote: »
    I was wondering if Legal representatives are allowed tell lies in courts and hearing of designated bodies?
    if they are, and they do so in order to make their client's name look good and their clients opposite's name look bad does this constitute an interference with the duty of the state to protect good names of citizen?

    Only white lies and fibs.
    The telling of ‘tall tales’ is frowned upon.
    Big lies also known as ‘whoppers’ are a no-no. You could get into trouble for telling them.


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    #7
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,153 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Red Hare wrote: »
    But when these legal people actually know that they are telling deliberate fraudulent misrepresentations, and Ireland glories in this deed, where can I go to?
    What are you referring to here?


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    #8
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    They haven't stopped telling the lies - and now its 2021 - will they ever stop?

    They glory in telling lies, i'ts not just a regional problem it is National.


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    #9
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    I also would like to say that one of the biggest offices in Ireland - constitutional office - had a garda, from the regional garda station - ring me on the evening of 1st January 2021 - New Years Day - to question me. Also to assert nonsense lies to me.
    When I asked the garda - why did the gardai not take the video down off the internet? the garda said In not hanging up, Im putting the phone down - and then she hung up.

    She also said "I'm saying goodbye" and then she hung up


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    #10
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,544 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    In your stream of consciousness above, you refer to a 16yo girl being subjected to sexual harassment.

    In the 2nd paragraph, you allege that National and Regional educational educational authorities then began a concerted lying campaign about her and other people including you.
    But that they somehow recorded this strategy and posted it to her Facebook page.

    In your 3rd paragraph, you allege that there has been a rape?
    That a rape report was sent by these colluding authorities to the a solicitor acting for them.
    Now in your post this is your 1st mention of rape, a very serious accusation.
    Particularly when your opening statement is in regards to a harassment accusation not being actioned.
    There is quite a significant jump in seriousness there and it isn't apparent quite how the jump from one claim to the other occurred.
    Was a rape alleged?
    Was a rape reported anywhere other than to school/institute in question?


    You later make mention of the Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Act 2012.
    And imply this means that the agencies in question are now in breach of reporting requirements.
    The law does not impose a retrospective obligation to report.
    The law was commenced on 1/8/2012, offences that prescribed people or organisations became aware of subsequent to that date must by law be reported.
    However, offences prior to that date, whilst morally 100% should be reported, legally no retrospective obligation is enforced.

    As for the actions you seek to bring, and that seem to have failed on the "lies" of opposing counsel?
    I am wondering what standing you have here to take any form of action other than defamation for the mention of you in the allegedly defamatory video posted by the organisations on the girls Facebook page?

    Other than that particular aspect, any action prior to the girls majority would need to be initiated by her parents/guardian and subsequent to her majority by herself or if a person covered by the act her legal guardian or the wards of the court office.

    Surely you had appropriate legal advice for such a matter?
    I hope that a matter of this levity isn't what you appear to have been self litigating for the last few years?


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    #11
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    Your are dead right banie01, I couldn't agree more. Well done.


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    #12
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    That stream of consciousness and sequencing describes the work of one of these law professionals.
    If you saw the other pieces of work from the other law professionals you could not but see just how many lies are being told.
    They are knocking themselves out.
    It is a bonanzarma of fraud and negligent yarns they are tying each other with but meanwhile they have an obligation to get the video off the internet.

    Do you think the garda will ring me back with the answer to my question?


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    #13
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,388 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Like any area in life, the legal professions have their share of unscrupulous and unethical members.

    Directly lying to the court would leave one open to professional disciplinary procedures or sanctions but it is easy to mislead with the truth, or the lack of truth.

    Weasel phrases such as 'my client informs me' or 'I am led to believe' can be used to couch somewhat less than fully honest claims. Let's just say, in my experience, some of the legal profession must be very easily led.

    Direct lies can easily be avoided by not applying too much, or sometimes any, critical thinking to what a client claims. Sometimes, (deliberate) ignorance is bliss.


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    #14
    Red Hare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Red Hare


    thanks everyone. I am learning a lot here. I appreciate it


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    #15
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,714 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    While the general topic of the extent of a legal practitioner's duty to the Court is of interest, I am uncomfortable with the specific allegations being mentioned here and I believe it is a matter on which the OP should seek professional legal advice.


This discussion has been closed.
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