Y Chromosome tests

elsie1b · 14-08-2015 8:07pm #1

I have had DNA tests performed with an american testing company.
Being male I had further tests on the Y chromosome which is meant to give information on your paternal lineage.
When I got my initial results my matches were given for each of my 22 autosomal chromosomes and one X chromosome.
When a female tests she gets results for 22 autosomal pairs and one pair of X chromosomes.
My point is that my Y chromosome results were probably available when my X chromosome results were done as they are paired.
Am I being drip-fed Y chromosome results this company already has in their possession just to make more money ?

Ipso · 18-08-2015 9:25pm

What was the company, and name of the test taken?

elsie1b · 19-08-2015 1:05am

I'd rather not mention the company by name.
My wife has tested with this company as well.
We both got matches for the autosomal chromosomes and for the X chromosome.
In her case she has far more X matches because she has two X chromosomes.
I'm just wondering do they map my Y chromosome when they mapped my X ?

Ipso · 19-08-2015 2:23am

It depends when you ordered the additional test, Family Tree DNA offers those kind of tests and apart from the odd issue they seem to offer very good service.
From what I understand your Y info requires additional analysis than your X.

elsie1b · 19-08-2015 10:56am

When I got my matches they were able to tell me whole sections of DNA that I had in common with others.
Every chromosome except the Y .
Then when I got the Y tested it was in small sections or sets of markers, the longer the section the costlier it became.
It feels like the Y results are being given out piecemeal with the promise of ever more detail and information about my paternal line if I just pay for more and more tests.
How come they can give me the complete map of my X chromosome and not it's partner Y ?

Ipso · 20-08-2015 3:20pm

elsie1b wrote: »

When I got my matches they were able to tell me whole sections of DNA that I had in common with others.
Every chromosome except the Y .
Then when I got the Y tested it was in small sections or sets of markers, the longer the section the costlier it became.
It feels like the Y results are being given out piecemeal with the promise of ever more detail and information about my paternal line if I just pay for more and more tests.
How come they can give me the complete map of my X chromosome and not it's partner Y ?

Y results are based on STR's (I think) and a different methodolgy is used for autosomnal ( think it's called Identity by descent).
Taking Family Tree DNA as as an example, they will test your haplogroup to a specific snp (mutation). In the case of R1b they will go as far as M269 (this is the biggie for Irish males). There are dozens if mutations below that, so from that point onwards it's up to you to choose the next one to test for.
You can also get a more advanced str test, 37 is probably the best to find direct male line relatives.

RGM · 26-08-2015 3:28am

elsie1b wrote: »

My point is that my Y chromosome results were probably available when my X chromosome results were done as they are paired.
Am I being drip-fed Y chromosome results this company already has in their possession just to make more money ?

No. The tests are completely different. The company is not withholding anything from you.

The Y chromosome is unlike all the other chromosomes, including X. All other chromosomes are mixed up and combined with each new generation. That means if you have many segments in common with someone, there is likely a recent relation. But the Y is never mixed up with other Y chromosomes. It is passed down intact. The only changes are mutations that occur very gradually. It's a completely different process to analyze Y chromosomes.

You can get your entire Y mapped if you like. It will cost something like a thousand dollars (at least). That's why it seems like there is always something more to buy - there is. But unless you want to put up a grand, that's your only option.

elsie1b · 26-08-2015 11:44am

It does seem like there is always something more to buy.
If I or my wife wanted to get more details of our maternal lines we could shell out more money on mitochondrial DNA tests as it only changes gradually as well.
They can tell me that so many people share a specific length of their X chromosome with me or others.
As the Y chromosome is made up of DNA as well ,why not with it also ?
Anyway they are the people with the technology and ultimately I can choose to "put up or shut up".

RGM · 26-08-2015 11:49am

elsie1b wrote: »

As the Y chromosome is made up of DNA as well ,why not with it also ?

I just explained why.

elsie1b · 26-08-2015 6:39pm

RGM wrote: »

I just explained why.

O.K .
Let's stop beating around the bush here.
I've been through the process and was fully aware of the details you gave in post #8 above.
I got all that story before I signed up for Y testing ,which only told me that I matched with most other males in Leinster.
I've just explained why, also.

pinkypinky · 26-08-2015 9:44pm

Guys - let's be nice to each other! Everyone is just giving their own opinion. If there's nothing else to add on this topic, I'll close it down.

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 9:49pm

I've done some fairly heavy testing. What should pointed out is that there are generally three types of testing done, these are:

1. Autosomnal testing, which looking at the 44 autosomes, examples of this include Familyfinder (FTDNA), 23andme, AncestryDNA -- usually they test for about 500,000 -1,000,000 snp's
2. Y-Chromosome testing, obviously only applicable to men, testing can either be for STR's (which will show matches in database) or for SNP's which will show exact haplogroup (for example R1b-Z255 is associated with historic Leinster surnames, linked to cluster known as "Irish Sea/Leinster"), Y is passed down soley on male line. It only makes up 2% of your nuclear DNA
3. MtDNA -- looks at Mitochondria DNA, this represents direct female lineage through your mother.

Anyways the testing arrays (1) don't test for STR's on Y-chromosome. At best in case of something like National Genographic (Nat Geo) test they will give you some haplogroups (SNP's) but you won't be able to see matches with these. 23andme for example does test some Y-DNA snp's (L21, M222 etc.) however they have very outdated list on their testing array.

Familyfinder doesn't test for any Y-DNA snp's and as far as I recall neither does Ancestry.

Anyways here's my full disclosure:

Tested 23andme
Tested FTDNA -- 111 STR's, multiple SNP's R-DF41+/CTS2501+ (23andme data transferred in to FamilyFinder)
AncestryDNA (got free sample)
Full Genome (FGC) -- Y-Prime, had my Y-chromosome sequenced (most comprehensive Y-DNA test, discovered dozens of SNP's new to science)
Volunteer Administrator on two FTDNA Y-DNA projects

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 9:52pm

Thus without STR data other than finding out you belong to a specific haplogroup (which is great by itself, but Haplogroup might be 1500 years old!) you won't be able to find close matches in testing DB. STR's in comparison due to fast mutation rate allow for clusters of men to be discerned, the prime example of them been used was study back in 2006 that used STR's to imply that the historic Uí Néill appears to belong to a Y-DNa genetic cluster later associated with haplogroup R1b-M222.

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 9:56pm

Anyways sorry should have been clearer, if it's case that you did an autosomnal test, and then you ordered a Y-DNA str test (37, 67 or 111 STR's) than no you aren't been dripped fed results. The specific company (based in Texas?) doesn't have technology to test both autosomnal data and Y-DNA STR's results at same time.

PlainP · 26-08-2015 10:01pm

dubhthach wrote: »

I've done some fairly heavy testing. What should pointed out is that there are generally three types of testing done, these are:

1. Autosomnal testing, which looking at the 44 autosomes, examples of this include Familyfinder (FTDNA), 23andme, AncestryDNA -- usually they test for about 500,000 -1,000,000 snp's
2. Y-Chromosome testing, obviously only applicable to men, testing can either be for STR's (which will show matches in database) or for SNP's which will show exact haplogroup (for example R1b-Z255 is associated with historic Leinster surnames, linked to cluster known as "Irish Sea/Leinster"), Y is passed down soley on male line. It only makes up 2% of your nuclear DNA
3. MtDNA -- looks at Mitochondria DNA, this represents direct female lineage through your mother.

Anyways the testing arrays (1) don't test for STR's on Y-chromosome. At best in case of something like National Genographic (Nat Geo) test they will give you some haplogroups (SNP's) but you won't be able to see matches with these. 23andme for example does test some Y-DNA snp's (L21, M222 etc.) however they have very outdated list on their testing array.

Familyfinder doesn't test for any Y-DNA snp's and as far as I recall neither does Ancestry.

Anyways here's my full disclosure:
Tested 23andme

Tested FTDNA -- 111 STR's, multiple SNP's R-DF41+/CTS2501+ (23andme data transferred in to FamilyFinder)

AncestryDNA (got free sample)

Full Genome (FGC) -- Y-Prime, had my Y-chromosome sequenced (most comprehensive Y-DNA test, discovered dozens of SNP's new to science)

Volunteer Administrator on two FTDNA Y-DNA projects

But what does it all mean?

Would they not need to have everyone's DNA to "match' you to someone?

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 10:03pm

PlainP wrote: »

But what does it all mean?

That would be an ecumenical matter

But seriously, as in why did I do DNA testing? Or that my post is as clear as a boggy pool?

PlainP · 26-08-2015 10:05pm

dubhthach wrote: »

That would be an ecumenical matter

But seriously, as in why did I do DNA testing? Or that my post is as clear as a boggy pool?

I thought you did it to find out about your ancestry.

What does it actually tell you about your clan that came before?

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 10:11pm

PlainP wrote: »

I thought you did it to find out about your ancestry.

What does it actually tell you about your clan that came before?

I did, it put me haplogroup R1b-DF41, which probably arose during the Iron age here in the isles. The House of Stewart (confirmed via testing of two Ducal lines) are part of same Haplogroup. However I probably don't share common ancestor with them for at least 2,000 years

In my case I belong to rather small cluster which appears linked to men with origins in province of Ulster, what's interesting is that I have a realitively common surname, which has multiple origins. The Y-DNa testing has helped to actually spilt this surname into multiple independent clusters, several of which have clear geographic spread.

Within one of my projects I'm currently researching men with Connacht surnames who the medieval genealogists claimed to be connected as part of the Uí Briúin, we seeing some evidence to back this up.

PlainP · 26-08-2015 10:14pm

dubhthach wrote: »

I did, it put me haplogroup R1b-DF41, which probably arose during the Iron age here in the isles. The House of Stewart (confirmed via testing of two Ducal lines) are part of same Haplogroup. However I probably don't share common ancestor with them for at least 2,000 years

In my case I belong to rather small cluster which appears linked to men with origins in province of Ulster, what's interesting is that I have a realitively common surname, which has multiple origins. The Y-DNa testing has helped to actually spilt this surname into multiple independent clusters, several of which have clear geographic spread.

Within one of my projects I'm currently researching men with Connacht surnames who the medieval genealogists claimed to be connected as part of the Uí Briúin, we seeing some evidence to back this up.

Sounds really interesting.

So would that mean with me being female I can never trace my father's line through my own DNA?

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 10:22pm

PlainP wrote: »

Sounds really interesting.

So would that mean with me being female I can never trace my father's line through my own DNA?

Not his Y lineage, he obviously got his Y from your grandfather who got it from your great-grandfather etc etc.

The Y-Chromosome is only 2% of a man's genome. you inherited 50% of your genome (including one of you're X's -- women = XX) from him.

If however you have a male relative on your father's line than they could always be tested to check the Y-Chromsome lineage. Simplistic way of thinking of it is as surnames pass down father to son traditionally than likewise Y-DNA follows surname. So you can technically use it to map back hundreds of years to when surnames were formed. In Irish context due to genealogical tradition you can often see multiple surnames which in genealogies are linked (Kindreds etc.) showing up as matches genetically. The exampled published about by academics in 2006 was looking at various Uí Néill surnames (examples: O'Donnell, O'Doherty, McKain, Gormley, O'Neill, etc.)

Now you could do autosome testing, but in general due to genetic recombination every generation, the autosomes are only really usefull for finding matches who share common ancestor in last 6-8 generations.

You obviously inherit your mtDNA (DNA in mitochondria -- engines of cell) from your mother, so direct female lineage can be traced that way (this is what they used with regards to Richard III)

PlainP · 26-08-2015 10:36pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Not his Y lineage, he obviously got his Y from your grandfather who got it from your great-grandfather etc etc.

The Y-Chromosome is only 2% of a man's genome. you inherited 50% of your genome (including one of you're X's -- women = XX) from him.

If however you have a male relative on your father's line than they could always be tested to check the Y-Chromsome lineage. Simplistic way of thinking of it is as surnames pass down father to son traditionally than likewise Y-DNA follows surname. So you can technically use it to map back hundreds of years to when surnames were formed. In Irish context due to genealogical tradition you can often see multiple surnames which in genealogies are linked (Kindreds etc.) showing up as matches genetically. The exampled published about by academics in 2006 was looking at various Uí Néill surnames (examples: O'Donnell, O'Doherty, McKain, Gormley, O'Neill, etc.)

Now you could do autosome testing, but in general due to genetic recombination every generation, the autosomes are only really usefull for finding matches who share common ancestor in last 6-8 generations.

You obviously inherit your mtDNA (DNA in mitochondria -- engines of cell) from your mother, so direct female lineage can be traced that way (this is what they used with regards to Richard III)

How do you distinguish between the X's? Is the maternal only in the engines? Could my children get the paternal X or do I have completely new X's that I give to them?

dubhthach · 26-08-2015 11:07pm

PlainP wrote: »

How do you distinguish between the X's? Is the maternal only in the engines? Could my children get the paternal X or do I have completely new X's that I give to them?

So as a woman you will always pass an X to any of your children along with your mtDNA (mitochondria = "engines of cell") . The X you pass though is a recombination of you're own two X chromsomes, so it might be made up of 60% of the X you got from your mother and 40% of X you got from your father, or any percentage in between. This occurs across all chromosome pairs. Recombination is one reason why two siblings can look distinctively different as they mightn't inherit exactly the same 50% of their DNA from each parent

So you contribute 23 chromosomes (22 autosomes + X).

elsie1b · 26-08-2015 11:20pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Anyways sorry should have been clearer, if it's case that you did an autosomnal test, and then you ordered a Y-DNA str test (37, 67 or 111 STR's) than no you aren't been dripped fed results. The specific company (based in Texas?) doesn't have technology to test both autosomnal data and Y-DNA STR's results at same time.

Thank you for this.

Y Chromosome tests

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