Why no bottle return deposit in Ireland?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! · 07-07-2020 8:21pm #1

I've lived in the Netherlands and spent a lot of time in Germany.

In both countries, plastic and glass bottles come with a deposit from €0.20 to €1, plastic crates for carrying the bottles are also available for a deposit.

Here, there are no plastic crates. Just horrid slabs with a sheet of recyclable cardboard and soft plastic that cannot be recycled and must go into the black rubbish bin.

Why can't we emulate most of our European neighbours and introduce a deposit system?

The Dutch and German system is wonderful. You are charged an extra amount when buying a bottle of beer or soft drink. When you return the empties into the machine you get a receipt which you can get cash back or use to pay against shopping.

I remember celebrating Queen's Day in Nijmegen. Everyone was drinking. At the end of the day, the greens were pristine. No rubbish or bottles left behind, the odd bottle that was left was snapped up by someone for the deposit.

McGinniesta · 07-07-2020 8:22pm

We actually do recycle in this country

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! · 07-07-2020 8:22pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

We actually do recycle in this country

??

McGinniesta · 07-07-2020 8:24pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

??

I might read it

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! · 07-07-2020 8:27pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

I might read it

Regardless of whether we recycle or not, it's scandalous that our European neighbours incentivise recycling but we're actually being CHARGED for the privilege.

We pay 4c per kg of green bin lift and bottles are thrown into a communal bin in a council or supermarket carpark for some other company to make money off.

The only other choice we have is chuck them into the black bin and pay through the nose for rubbish collection.

Ubbquittious · 07-07-2020 9:24pm

Fun fact: Ireland was the first place to have it the whole way back in 1799

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container-deposit_legislation#History

Lyan · 07-07-2020 9:31pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Regardless of whether we recycle or not, it's scandalous that our European neighbours incentivise recycling but we're actually being CHARGED for the privilege.

We pay 4c per kg of green bin lift and bottles are thrown into a communal bin in a council or supermarket carpark for some other company to make money off.

The only other choice we have is chuck them into the black bin and pay through the nose for rubbish collection.

Is there proof that Ireland has more bottle litter per capita or are you just annoyed that we do it more through private channels rather than public?

Feisar · 07-07-2020 9:32pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Regardless of whether we recycle or not, it's scandalous that our European neighbours incentivise recycling but we're actually being CHARGED for the privilege.

We pay 4c per kg of green bin lift and bottles are thrown into a communal bin in a council or supermarket carpark for some other company to make money off.

The only other choice we have is chuck them into the black bin and pay through the nose for rubbish collection.

We get rid of glass bottles/jars and cans at any bottle bank around the town for free. The local recycling center takes a car load of recycling for €3. And I do mean a car load, boot, back wedged, front seat all for €3.

rossie1977 · 07-07-2020 9:33pm

German bottle return service is excellent. Pretty much every shop has it.

The only thing is when you land and forget and have 1 euro to pay for that bottle of water right off the plane and cashier tells you it's 1.25...

screamer · 07-07-2020 9:34pm

But it’s a total false economy. The price of the bottle refund is built into the price you pay. They’re only refunding your money. Here, it also suits to not have this as we pay for the privilege and give the recycling industry free raw materials. They are profiting from the recycling not paddy public.

Spanish Eyes · 07-07-2020 9:34pm

I can't see myself dragging a weekends worth of beer bottles to the offie for a refund. Morto I'd be lol. Into the bottle bank it goes of a Tuesday night when it's dark.

Zebra3 · 07-07-2020 9:36pm

When I was a kid there was a deposit paid on bottles.

Really need it again especially on plastic.

The Assistinator · 07-07-2020 9:36pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

German bottle return service is excellent. Pretty much every shop has it.

The only thing is when you land and forget and have 1 euro to pay for that bottle of water right off the plane and cashier tells you it's 1.25...

Yeah who is thinking a bottle of water for a euro is realistic coming from Ireland.

Ubbquittious · 07-07-2020 9:40pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I can't see myself dragging a weekends worth of beer bottles to the offie for a refund. Morto I'd be lol. Into the bottle bank it goes of a Tuesday night when it's dark.

You could always potentially be dumping someone elses bottles. Unless it's some unusual craft beer you've been waxing lyrical about to everyone and importing specially

Lurching · 07-07-2020 9:44pm

There's a big environmental difference between glass being crushed and melted (here) versus washed and reused (Germany).

The deposit also has a huge impact on litter. Take a walk around the hills of Dublin and you'll see the ditches littered with plastic bottles and cans. I'm not sure if most of it is filthy feckers throwing bottles out their windows, or recycling bin trucks making a mess when they lift the bins (particularly when it's windy).

If there was a deposit on these bottles and cans, they wouldn't go in to the bin trucks and people would be more inclined to pick them up to receive the deposit.

In the grand scheme of things, we need to start pushing back on the quantity of single use plastic we use. I reckon the Irish govt should announce that in 4 years time, no plastic bottles will be sold in Ireland to give suppliers time to figure out reusable alternatives or start using materials that break down much more quickly.

jester77 · 07-07-2020 9:46pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I can't see myself dragging a weekends worth of beer bottles to the offie for a refund. Morto I'd be lol. Into the bottle bank it goes of a Tuesday night when it's dark.

That's what delivery services are for, they pick up the empty crates when delivering the new ones.

Spanish Eyes · 07-07-2020 9:48pm

jester77 wrote: »

That's what delivery services are for, they pick up the empty crates when delivering the new ones.

That's gas. I couldn't let the delivery person see the carnage either!

Look we have a few bottles of nice beer and wine at the weekend it's not a crime, but anonymity is good too!

jester77 · 07-07-2020 9:51pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That's gas. I couldn't let the delivery person see the carnage either!

Look we have a few bottles of nice beer and wine at the weekend it's not a crime, but anonymity is good too!

anonymity from what?! It's just a delivery service like having pizza delivered.

Pinch Flat · 07-07-2020 10:02pm

Don't think we recycle glass domestically? Could be wrong. I lived in Germany as a student - the pfand system was excellent. People would have little trollies that gets wheel to the supermarket with last week's beer bottles - sometimes in the crate they came in. Or yiud see peolel with tjen on the bacl of their bikes. It was quite normal. I was in Germany and Austria a few years back and they'd extended the system to plastic bottles.

yogmeister · 07-07-2020 10:14pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

We actually do recycle in this country

It's not just about recycling, it will reduce litter also. It's something we badly need in this country.

la ultima guagua · 07-07-2020 10:15pm

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

I've lived in the Netherlands and spent a lot of time in Germany.

In both countries, plastic and glass bottles come with a deposit from €0.20 to €1, plastic crates for carrying the bottles are also available for a deposit.

Here, there are no plastic crates. Just horrid slabs with a sheet of recyclable cardboard and soft plastic that cannot be recycled and must go into the black rubbish bin......

You posting rubbish again

This is a list of what one of the Dublin City bring centres will take ( at no charge )

duffmann · 07-07-2020 10:16pm

I would love if we had a deposit scheme. The country wouldn't look like a rubbish tip on sunny days. Also there would be less glass on the cycle lanes. I have seen deposit schemes all over the world. One example, I was at a football game in Dortmund and everyone were drinking outside the stadium. There were many people bagging the empty cans to earn some cash.

whisky_galore · 07-07-2020 10:48pm

McGinniesta wrote: »

We actually do recycle in this country

Yes and no. A lot of stuff is shipped abroad as we haven't the plants here to process it.

The glass bottle return thing is all well and good but reusable glass milk bottles were got rid of as plastic and card cartons were cheaper.

There was a piece about a recycling company based here, I recall reading about the cohort of nice folks here who stuff things like dead dogs and shıtty nappies into bins. The amount of contaminated unusable stuff is something else.

mistersifter · 07-07-2020 10:56pm

Tis not only the Germans and Dutch.

Deposit on most glass bottles and some plastic bottles in Argentina.

You bring em to supermarket and they have a machine that takes them and gives you a receipt to say you've returned them and can buy more beer.

Beer is mostly bought in litre bottles so it's handy enough but you have to plan going to buy beer - if you just fancy buying a few bottles spur of the moment it's a pain in the hole cos you don't have your empties with you.

07-07-2020 11:00pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

The glass bottle return thing is all well and good but reusable glass milk bottles were got rid of as plastic and card cartons were cheaper.

This is the closest thing we've come to a reasonable answer, and it isn't an answer.

Hate to sound like one of those guys, but in Berlin the homeless people go about collecting glass bottles, and probably make some kind of income from it. Why can't we do this?

mistersifter · 07-07-2020 11:03pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is the closest thing we've come to a reasonable answer, and it isn't an answer.

Hate to sound like one of those guys, but in Berlin the homeless people go about collecting glass bottles, and probably make some kind of income from it. Why can't we do this?

There wouldnt be enough litter to keep all our homeless in business :pac:

Kylta · 07-07-2020 11:03pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

When I was a kid there was a deposit paid on bottles.

Really need it again especially on plastic.

I remember getting money for bringing bottles back to the shop when I was small

Capt'n Midnight · 07-07-2020 11:39pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Don't think we recycle glass domestically?

Irish Glass Bottle company used to do it. But closed in 2002

So to recycle glass you'd have to export it. Or use it for building roads.

Darc19 · 07-07-2020 11:45pm

Afaik it's part of the green agreement for government.

Very easy to implement and should be done so quickly.

whisky_galore · 07-07-2020 11:46pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

This is the closest thing we've come to a reasonable answer, and it isn't an answer.

Hate to sound like one of those guys, but in Berlin the homeless people go about collecting glass bottles, and probably make some kind of income from it. Why can't we do this?

The wha abou da homeless refrain.

Maybe something could be done to prevent them becoming homeless in the first place, instead of assuaging guilty consciences becoming litter pickers for pennies.

07-07-2020 11:56pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That's gas. I couldn't let the delivery person see the carnage either!

Look we have a few bottles of nice beer and wine at the weekend it's not a crime, but anonymity is good too!

If you’d be embarrassed by the empties you’re probably really just embarrassed by your consumption.

In many places it’s completely normal. Let’s face it, nobody else really cares what you drink or knows how much and when returned from a dunnes bag straight into a machine. 10c up to €1 per empty on everything from bottled water through to wine bottles. I’d rather stick a few cans and bottles into a machine and get my money back than add it to the bin lift or faff about dropping them to a bottle bank at night.

Stovepipe · 08-07-2020 1:37am

In Berlin, the pfand system gives you a reciept from the machine that takes in the bottles that you can then use to reduce your bill for any other purchase in the same shop. Everybody used it, even the homeless,who went around local public events and public places collecting them. On one occasion, as my family and I were watching an open air concert, a homeless guy with a small trolley came up and asked us for our empty water and juice bottles. We weren't yet finished with them but he simply waited and thanked us for them. When you bought beer or water or juice from the stalls,they handed out glasses and you didnt get another beer unless you brought the glass back. You could give the bottle to a collecting person or save it for the pfand machine. The whole system works really well and the only opposition here is from the soft drinks firms who don't want to get involved,plain and simple and won't do so unless they are forced. I'll be Repak don't want to get involved either.
Incidentally,glass bottles for milk and juices have been making a comeback and a local firm where Ilive in West Wicklow has a thriving delivery custom.

08-07-2020 2:05am

whisky_galore wrote: »

The wha abou da homeless refrain.

Maybe something could be done to prevent them becoming homeless in the first place, instead of assuaging guilty consciences becoming litter pickers for pennies.

Honest to God, some people are just agin everything.

I have no illusion that such a scheme would solve homelessness, I'm simply suggesting that the homeless could benefit from a glass-recycling scheme like this, OK?

Chinasea · 08-07-2020 9:00am

Would solve our litter problem. The discarded plastic bottle and can scourge.

whisky_galore · 08-07-2020 9:04am

Chinasea wrote: »

Would solve our litter problem. The discarded plastic bottle and can scourge.

No it wouldn't, unless you pay people to bring in everything.

Stovepipe · 08-07-2020 12:42pm

It works in America.You get a cent or two back on every "soda can" or plastic bottle and the homeless collect them and cash them in. Homed people collect them too. Not every State does it, but most do. There is no justifiable reason not to have a refund scheme in Ireland, if it works so well in other countries.

Lurching · 08-07-2020 3:15pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

No it wouldn't, unless you pay people to bring in everything.

Only that, yes, it does work. I'm not sure what you're basing your negative perspective on, but it works in Germany.

Come up to the Dublin mountains. 90% of the rubbish is either plastic bottles or cans. People would be much more inclined to carry their rubbish home if it had a deposit.

duffmann · 08-07-2020 3:32pm

https://twitter.com/EamonRyan/status/1267418230295060480?s=20
Hope this guy walks the walk

jester77 · 08-07-2020 3:34pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

No it wouldn't, unless you pay people to bring in everything.

It's 25c a can for the pfand in Germany, so you would only need to bring back 4 empty cans to pay for a beer (pfand included)

whisky_galore · 09-07-2020 6:01am

Lurching wrote: »

Only that, yes, it does work. I'm not sure what you're basing your negative perspective on, but it works in Germany.

Come up to the Dublin mountains. 90% of the rubbish is either plastic bottles or cans. People would be much more inclined to carry their rubbish home if it had a deposit.

Germany is not Ireland. Trying to get companies to organise to get behind this is your biggest hurdle. And then you have the fickle Irish public who were oh so concerned about the environment and Greta a few months ago but now not so much as the circus has moved on.

Guaranteed people here will only gather or bring back what they get a deposit on and leave the "worthless" rubbish there. That includes the plastics, the shïtty nappies, the bags of dog shït hanging from trees like Xmas decorations.
But sure, have your deposit system, but let's not pretend it's a magic bullet for cleaning up ALL waste.

Potential-Monke · 09-07-2020 7:20am

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Here, there are no plastic crates. Just horrid slabs with a sheet of recyclable cardboard and soft plastic that cannot be recycled and must go into the black rubbish bin.

Wait, what? You can't recycle the plastic? Oops.... Does that include the branded wrapping from like 24 packs of Coke?

Edit: I Googled. TIL.

ED E · 09-07-2020 7:32am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Germany is not Ireland. Trying to get companies to organise to get behind this is your biggest hurdle. And then you have the fickle Irish public who were oh so concerned about the environment and Greta a few months ago but now not so much as the circus has moved on.

Guaranteed people here will only gather or bring back what they get a deposit on and leave the "worthless" rubbish there. That includes the plastics, the shïtty nappies, the bags of dog shït hanging from trees like Xmas decorations.
But sure, have your deposit system, but let's not pretend it's a magic bullet for cleaning up ALL waste.

The finish system is run by the shops. It's an industry body, not a quango. Can be done.

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-07-2020 7:51am

If only we some sort of site to build a glass bottle factory

Phil.x · 09-07-2020 7:52am

Who's this aimed at? As a home owner I pay for general waste and recycling, i also recycle bottles to keep the weight down.
So why should I pay extra on purchased bottles, cans and plastic, I also dont want to spend a a few hours per week nevermind the hassle of lugging cans, bottles and plastic bottles to a supermarket.

Maybe it's more suited to apartment living like in German and Dutch cities like the greens keep spouting about.

SnowyMay · 09-07-2020 8:06am

Phil.x wrote: »

Who's this aim at? As a home owner I pay for general waste and recycling, i also recycle bottles to keep the weight down.
So why should I pay extra on purchased bottles, cans and plastic, I also dont want to spend a a few hours per week nevermind the hassle of lugging cans, bottles and plastic bottles to a supermarket.

Maybe it's more suited to apartment living like in German and Dutch cities like the greens keep spouting about.

Well, the aim is to get these bottles and cans recycled.

There’s a small difference between going to a bottle bank, or going to a Pfand (deposit) bank. In fact, I’d say the Pfand is even more convenient, as they are at pretty much every supermarket in Germany. Also, it’s a cool word... Pfand.

It also means that you won’t see bottles and cans littered around the street or parks, as, if you don’t recycle your stuff, somebody else will come along and do it, for money!

I’ve been to football matches in Ireland, where the streets are filled with all kinds of rubbish, left to be cleared up by some public service. I don’t know - but I doubt all of this is sorted and recycled where appropriate. That’s not the case in Germany, where the streets are clean by the time the first goal is scored.

With a deposit system, somebody will recycle the recyclables - for money!

The system also means that people are aware and conscious about recycling.

Can’t complain about it at all.

screamer · 09-07-2020 8:10am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Germany is not Ireland. Trying to get companies to organise to get behind this is your biggest hurdle. And then you have the fickle Irish public who were oh so concerned about the environment and Greta a few months ago but now not so much as the circus has moved on.

Guaranteed people here will only gather or bring back what they get a deposit on and leave the "worthless" rubbish there. That includes the plastics, the shïtty nappies, the bags of dog shït hanging from trees like Xmas decorations.
But sure, have your deposit system, but let's not pretend it's a magic bullet for cleaning up ALL waste.

Agree, also the Germans are very compliant, their towns are clean, unbelievably so. I think there’s a sense of civic pride there that’s lacking here. Deposit would have to be punitively expensive to have Irish people lug bottles back to shops. I also think the shops would kick up hell about having to manage the logistics of this.

vicwatson · 09-07-2020 8:27am

screamer wrote: »

Agree, also the Germans are very compliant, their towns are clean, unbelievably so. I think there’s a sense of civic pride there that’s lacking here. Deposit would have to be punitively expensive to have Irish people lug bottles back to shops. I also think the shops would kick up hell about having to manage the logistics of this.

But I lug mine to a bottle bank at the shops, only diff is another CO are responsible for lifting them. Maybe all supermarkets should be obliged to have a bottle and can bank on their site as part of planning permission. My local Tesco and SuperValu have recycling banks but not one ALDI or Lidl have a facility for example.

maestroamado · 09-07-2020 9:04am

I think what you saying good idea but our market very small, our problem is quite alot of what we consume is not bottled in Ireland so probably cost considerably less to recycle than return.
All of the wine we consume is bottled abroad, all beer except what produced by Guinness and craft bottled abroad, a considerable amount of our spirits bottled abroad.
I think most soft drinks bottled here but they are already being returned...

whisky_galore · 09-07-2020 10:24am

ED E wrote: »

The finish system is run by the shops. It's an industry body, not a quango. Can be done.

Irish owned and Irish based chains would have to be forced to do it, best of luck with that.

whisky_galore · 09-07-2020 10:28am

screamer wrote: »

Agree, also the Germans are very compliant, their towns are clean, unbelievably so. I think there’s a sense of civic pride there that’s lacking here. Deposit would have to be punitively expensive to have Irish people lug bottles back to shops. I also think the shops would kick up hell about having to manage the logistics of this.

Definitely. There's always the sense here that it's someone else's problem or responsibility. Ah shur I pays me taxes, the council will pick them up after me like me Ma picks up after me at home.

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-07-2020 2:11pm

Why no bottle return deposit in Ireland?

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