The uselessness of the gardai

corner of hells wrote: »

Dunno , but imagine being part of that investigation team let alone finding those bodies , how would you find time to be corrupt and rotten to the core ?

Crisis fatigue

Pasteur. wrote: »

You're thinking of the US or maybe you watched a few episodes of the wire?

Mayors with real powers and roles in policing priorities isnt just a US thing.

Muppet Man wrote: »

On one occasion yes - 1 year old golf gti got stolen from my driveway and recovered about a month later 60 miles away, through good / instinctive policing. I had basically 'written it off' in my head. Couldn't believe it was recovered. Largely undamaged.

You were lucky.

My girlfriend's car was taken from the driveway one night so we rang the guards at 8am. The guard that came out couldn't have been more useless.

First he didn't believe us that the car was taken. Tried to insinuate that we must have crashed it or forgot where we left it the previous night and were trying to claim the insurance. By the end of taking the statement he was telling us it was already chopped or on the way out of the country. He went to canvas the neighbours, got to the second house in the estate and was told there was a neighbourhood watch and decided that would do him.

I put posts up on social media showing the car as being stolen and he gave out to me and said it was a waste of time and to take them down for some reason. I got a phonecall from a lady saying she thought the car was outside her house a few hours later. Drove to where it was to make sure it was our car. Rang the station to let him know and get them to check for evidence before I touched it. He said they had searched the area after they left my house in the morning and would be checking the CCTV in a house across the way. It turned out the car was there since 6am and could be seen on CCTV, it was fully bright and sunny that morning and the cameras were good.

It was taken to the recovery company and Forensics came out the following day to check for evidence. We got the car back a few days later and the fella that robbed it had left his jacket in the car so he wasn't covering his face and there was clear footage.

I met the guy running the recovery yard a few weeks later and he said as soon as he saw which forensics guy that came out he knew they wouldn't catch the lads that took the car. He was also able to tell me who took the car and I could see pictures of the guy wearing the same jacket on his social media and he has been in an out of jail a few times so surely they take fingerprints/hair or whatever when arresting people.

Bad enough that he didn't do his job properly but he lied about what he did do to my face, had an attitude that stunk to high heaven from the word go. He wasn't long on duty when he came out to us so can't say he had a tough night/call prior to us.

We got a letter out a year later saying the investigation was closed and that no suspects were located or charged so that was the end of it.

kippy wrote: »

The way to make it more efficient is to remove the oceans of paperwork either by removing the oceans of paperwork or push that paperwork onto non Gardai. That and making the law and sentencing more streamlined.

Agreed. The paperwork is only increasing in this era of accountability. There's nothing wrong with accountability, but the problem is that the bureaucracy associated with it often ends up with the guards themselves. I've heard anecdotes that when a new civil servant arrives at a station management try and find a job for them - and end up doing statistics or data input as opposed to doing what they're meant to be there for which is taking paperwork from the sworn staff.

Add to that the obsolete practices which are still in place - bringing in DVD video recording of interviews but the guards still have to write down everything said in real time as opposed to practically every other country in the world where the interview is transcribed later by a civil servant. That alone must reduce interview times by 80%.

The UK has a number of detention centres that specialise in the management of prisoners. Dozens of prisoners can be detained and are monitored by private security officers under the supervision of a police sergeant. This makes sense. In AGS most prisoners are managed at the local station by that one guard who also has to answer the hatch, answer the phones, the radio, handle admin from management and also be expected to conduct investigations as it's the only time they're allowed indoors. This could also explain why they may not be in a very good mood when dealing with the public at the counter. It's not fair on the public nor is it fair on that one guard. These roles should be separated so that a police officer can allocate time to help the public appropriately.

kippy wrote: »

We have an incredibly small force for the size of population.

And despite many countries having more manpower per capita in their national services - it's often forgotten that these same countries usually have additional uniformed services that take a lot of work away from the national police. In the US you have local, county and state police not to mention the dozens of federal police agencies; Social Services, FBI, DEA, ATF, INS, Park Rangers; hell even the Postal Service has an armed police service dedicated to it.

In an EU context the Spanish have the national police, the military police, the local police and subsidiary police for wildlife, fisheries etc.

The UK has dozens of local police forces but also have national bodies including the NCA and Border Force, Civil Nuclear Constabulary, Transport Police, Serious Fraud Office; Trading Standards have powers to investigate bogus traders whereas the National Consumer Agency here hands everything over to AGS.

The point is all of these services overlap and often assist each other when things get difficult - a facility that AGS does not have and these extra bodies are never counted in statistics when the guards are compared to other countries.

Not even the Airport Police have much responsibility after an arrest - it's all handed over to AGS.

odyssey06 wrote: »

Just noting I dont remember Michael McDowell getting much media support for a new prison.

I remember asking a TD about this in the last GE campaign and they had to go digging to find out about it. At least they got back to me but noted themselves that it's a shame it was forgotten about.

Halenvaneddie wrote: »

One of the most corrupt forces in the world
Rotten to the core and not fit for purpose

Sure, the police forces of North Korea, Columbia, Mexico and much of Africa don't have a patch on AGS when it comes to corruption. :rolleyes:

Apologies for the rant - but I know many in this job and, like how people give out about waiting times in an A&E; don't seem to comprehend that the people behind the scenes in the garda station or hospital are often up to their neck with work and not eating donuts.

square ball wrote: »

You were lucky.

My girlfriend's car was taken from the driveway one night so we rang the guards at 8am. The guard that came out couldn't have been more useless.

First he didn't believe us that the car was taken. Tried to insinuate that we must have crashed it or forgot where we left it the previous night and were trying to claim the insurance. By the end of taking the statement he was telling us it was already chopped or on the way out of the country. He went to canvas the neighbours, got to the second house in the estate and was told there was a neighbourhood watch and decided that would do him.

I put posts up on social media showing the car as being stolen and he gave out to me and said it was a waste of time and to take them down for some reason. I got a phonecall from a lady saying she thought the car was outside her house a few hours later. Drove to where it was to make sure it was our car. Rang the station to let him know and get them to check for evidence before I touched it. He said they had searched the area after they left my house in the morning and would be checking the CCTV in a house across the way. It turned out the car was there since 6am and could be seen on CCTV, it was fully bright and sunny that morning and the cameras were good.

It was taken to the recovery company and Forensics came out the following day to check for evidence. We got the car back a few days later and the fella that robbed it had left his jacket in the car so he wasn't covering his face and there was clear footage.

I met the guy running the recovery yard a few weeks later and he said as soon as he saw which forensics guy that came out he knew they wouldn't catch the lads that took the car. He was also able to tell me who took the car and I could see pictures of the guy wearing the same jacket on his social media and he has been in an out of jail a few times so surely they take fingerprints/hair or whatever when arresting people.

Bad enough that he didn't do his job properly but he lied about what he did do to my face, had an attitude that stunk to high heaven from the word go. He wasn't long on duty when he came out to us so can't say he had a tough night/call prior to us.

We got a letter out a year later saying the investigation was closed and that no suspects were located or charged so that was the end of it.

Yep, this pretty much sums it up.

If any investigation is required it's a guaranteed failure

An Claidheamh wrote: »

The Gardaí do this thing where they imply it is your fault:

“If you harm the assailant you could be charged under section bla bla bla” - the first thing they do is try to get you drop the complaint, then want you to gather the evidence, then give out to you for doing the work and making them investigate/charge/arrest”

Then they keep telling people to report crime - as if everyone is not already doing that or fed up doing it - just for their statistics or for the pretends!

They were found out recently when that Asian lady was thrown in the canal and it transpired they were called and never arrived, the poor woman had to walk to a Garda station after waiting hours.

Then, in Balbriggan, where gangs were rampaging and threatening people they essentially told people they were on their own, but still wanted them reporting the crimes????

They are useless

Their Twitter page is pure fluff

Furthermore, the UK frontline police put them to shame, while the paramedics, doctors, nurses, fire service of Ireland are not allowed to dodge their duty like the Gardaí

Ahhh did you get a ticket for being on the mobile phone... poor you it’s ok to rant

Augeo wrote: »

They were thick going in, I'm not thinking they are thick for not progressing.
Most able folk progress in their careers BTW.

what years did they go in? 25,000 applied to get in around 5 years ago, there was only a couple of hundred places, so im sure a lot of able and smart people got in.

A lot of people aren't bothered moving higher up the ladder in my experience, if you stay as a general guard, you will be paid well, have good time off, good pension etc. A lot of people are happy with that.

LuasSimon wrote: »

Burglary gangs and drug gangs have a far bigger impact in rural ireland than traffic offences . Every house in rural Ireland has to have alarms if not cctv At this stage with everyone bolting themselves in each evening to avoid burglary gangs .

And every cemetery in the country has a road death victim killed by some gob****e who thinks it's ok to drive while drunk or exceed the speed limits

Mad_maxx wrote: »

no arm of the state wants a narrative whereby resources are adequate , just remember that

Out of curiosity? why not? and why should this stop any state service carry out out that function to some degree of competency?


Recently there was a furore on the road I live on, I noticed 4 marked Garda vehicles arrived for what seemed like a domestic situation. At no point did it seem like anymore than (2-3 Gardai) or 1-2 vehicles were required and yet here were 4, in the end they all just headed off.

The same for Garda attendance at checkpoints, now maybe it was mandatory overtime, I was stopped twice out of numerous times passing the same checkpoint daily (not much overall), one of the Gardai was blatantly hostile, another came across as outright stupid, now I get they may not have wanted to be there, but I think there was better things to do than stop traffic on a weekday evening for people driving away from Dublin city.
Also, given that checkpoints at those times were the response by Gardai management, they seem to be either thick and not know/care what affect it would have, or maybe they're unwilling to tell their superiors that it would have limited success in turning back hundreds (maybe thousands)of motorists driving home from work, even after it was initially complained about, they insisted checkpoints were going to continue and they appeared to have the resources to pursue that.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Its one of the worst! As I pointed out, NYPD, MET, PSNI, Spanish, French, Italian and Hungarian national services all far outweigh Gardai in numbers and worse again when geographical size is added into it. Theres nations with smaller but Ireland is way in the bottom half of the table

Irish policing is still reliant on beat officers. You wont make it close to the edge of the district if its larger. Thats fine for operating in cars. Store Street and Pearse Street are 90% beats and they rarely make it as far as O'Connell Street and Grafton Street before finding a prisoner

I consider the starting point for pay scale to be fairly rewarding for very little experience, In comparison, I think it would be found, possibly with the exception of the NYPD where I have heard they get paid very well (even that is relative), but in those other countries the pay is likely not to be as good, and yet I think it still comes up from time to time as a complaint.



I think there is no doubt numbers should be greater, but efficiency should be improved and annual performance evaluations should be a feature, one big thing that can be tracked is attendance.
Investigations should be handed off to investigators and the uniformed Gardai should be out on the street.
I cant understand how criminals who have a known record are released after questioning, obviously no intent to hold them or anywhere to keep them, so overhaul of the judiciary and sentences and procedures.

corner of hells wrote: »

Dunno , but imagine being part of that investigation team let alone finding those bodies , how would you find time to be corrupt and rotten to the core ?

As terrible as it is, it is part of the job, Im sure there are mental health supports, where it seems sensible/beneficial to farm that out to a private source.

FGR wrote: »

I take it this is done in most other countries. I've seen that in NSW it's common for response officers to only investigate minor matters if there's a prisoner in custody for something like public order. Anything that requires investigating is handed to an investigations team who have time to follow up on the matter.

That makes sense.