The incessant requirement to "further" yourself at work

Potential-Monke · 07-11-2020 2:05am #1

So it's EOY (End of Year) time at work, and the bi-annual self reflection crap is rolling out, along with the feedback survey. I'll point out I work in a multinational in the telecomms industry, so it's full of Americanised self-rate/help bolloxology.

As I've done just over 1 year, I'm relatively new to this as I didn't have to complete it last year (we were still in training at the time). It's the usual very well worded but closed questions, and the company does push you to improve yourself via LinkedIn courses, and even IT courses which you can do yourself and the company may pay for the test if it deems the company will benefit, ie: CompTIA A+/N+ courses, Cisco, etc.

Anyway, I had said last year I would complete A+ and N+ as they were inferring that we would need them. Doubtful I thought, as I was hired without them, along with 2 others I worked with in the last job, one of which never did technical troubleshooting before, let alone network based. So I knew these courses were not required. Still, I said I'd do them anyway, but then covid hit and my complete and utter lack of caring came with it.

Now, I can do my job fine (training was, in the end, shockingly bad and barely covered an overview, everything we've learned we've done it ourselves with our new-to-the-position team leader, who did what we were doing before he took this role. This is no requirement for this, and as I work nights (which is awesome, I don't want to leave it), the room for promotion is miniscule. So I'm happy to keep doing what I'm doing, and I really couldn't be bothered to "further" myself to do the same job I'm doing now, with no other benefit, ie: increase in wages. But if I was to say this, I wouldn't be considered a team player, or I wouldn't be "showing interest" in my job.

Which is true, and the reason for my topic. I don't care about progressing. I'm very happy with what I do and how much I'm paid for it. The company pays a bonus, which in turn affects your base wage, all dependant on performance. As we're new, and the role itself is new, there's nothing to base us on, so bonus should be good this year (only my third time in my life getting a bonus, so yay!). But "furthering oneself" doesn't appear to affect the bonus, and appears to simply be a company thing.

So, does your employer have this BS too? Do you think an employee doing what they're being paid to do, but with no interest in anything else job related, is something to worry about, or should it be lauded? As I said, not everyone can get promoted, and one of the ones who started with me finished the A+ and got a couple of Teams messages saying well done and that's it. Doesn't seem worth it. At the end of the day, I'm just a series of 6 digits to them, nothing more. I've also tried the management route in the last job, but found out quickly it doesn't suit me (being all nicey nice to upper management even though there are glaring issues, one needs to word them better or some other BS).

Why can't we just do what we were hired to do, and not be expected to "further" ourselves? The company is around over 25 years, and they have plenty of day time people who have been there for 20 years in the same or similar roles, so they know not everyone wants to move up.

Rant over... Now just need to finish 2 more EOY survey shyte... Explain in 3 words the companys culture... Oh just fu...

worded · 07-11-2020 2:15am

The three stages of employment in some places

1 ~ spring lamb. All entuastic
2 ~ apathy
3 ~ madness. Don't fight it. Go with it

auspicious · 07-11-2020 2:29am

In the system's profiling you are either a 1 or a 0. You need to suck up or suck it up.

sasta le · 07-11-2020 2:38am

All the Masters bores

Trouser Snake · 07-11-2020 2:39am

That wall is high as a skyscraper.

Dayo93 · 07-11-2020 2:42am

It's a game those that suck harder proceed through the ranks, those those that just want a job still have to go through this **** every year, all about metrics weather they actually make a difference or not welcome to the multinational corporate life

07-11-2020 2:56am

You probably could have filled out the form in fewer words than you'd written in this rant.

PTH2009 · 07-11-2020 3:06am

If you're good looking enough your sorted no matter how intelligent you are

Your Face · 07-11-2020 3:28am

PTH2009 wrote: »

If you're good looking enough your sorted no matter how intelligent you are

If you're good looking or even in good shape - you'll have jealousy to contend with.

sasta le · 07-11-2020 3:37am

Good looking women do very well in jobs...

Potential-Monke · 07-11-2020 4:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

You probably could have filled out the form in fewer words than you'd written in this rant.

As pointless as threads are in general, it carried more weight than that form!

yoke · 07-11-2020 4:13am

This kind of bull**** is there in a lot of US multinationals. It’s usually something that’s easier to plan for and do the bare minimum for so you “pass” every year.
If they insist on a ****ty certificate which you have absolutely no interest in, just pay for a brain dump online and pass the stupid cert. it’s far easier than fighting the system when you’re at the bottom.

Remember, you can only change the system from the top, unfortunately. Remember that if you reach it, accidentally or otherwise, and remove that directive. It was probably decided by some marketing idiot who somehow got to VP level in the support organisation, or who had the ear of a clueless VP in the support org, who wanted to tell customers “hey! All our network troubleshooting staff are up to a certain level, they have comptia a+ certs!”.
If I was a customer I’d immediately think “OK, so the management in that company are blinkered idiots who don’t live in the real world, and not only can’t judge their own staff, they also haven’t heard about brain dumps so they’re ****ing stupid”.

Unfortunately I’m not most customers, most customers are probably banks or something who never have a clue about anything and are sitting there going “wow, certs coming out of their ass, what an educated workforce”

Neames · 07-11-2020 12:34pm

I think having the option of taking on further training is a good thing. This isn't really a hardship at all. I'm sure if you tried you will find some training that interests you and not only will have you fulfilled your obligations in terms of performance review but you're going to be better protected and more likely to get another job if this one doesn't work out for whatever reason.

Or you could just continue with your current mindset.

Wanderer78 · 07-11-2020 12:37pm

its extremely important to wear 'i am a legend' badges and t-shirts etc, going to annual reviews, always seals the deal for me

07-11-2020 12:41pm

sasta le wrote: »

Good looking women do very well in jobs...

Then they pull a maternity.

Ranjo · 07-11-2020 12:45pm

There is mixed emotions in your post. First you seem happy with your current job and no major intentions to change. That's fine and can be stated in the end of year review.

Second, you're trashing your employer's intention to enable those who do want to grow.

Be honest in your review. You're happy, the job is good, you don't feel there are any skill gaps to plug with training (your manager may say otherwise if different work is on the horizon).

Dont feel the need to fill out a loads of BS because you think that's what they want to hear.

bennyineire · 07-11-2020 1:02pm

The very reason I hated working for multi national companies, there are so many layers of management all filtering down to each other.

Sure you'll meet some good people there and you might even be lucky enough to get a decent direct report but for the most part they really don't care about you.

Like a previous poster said, just tell them you are doing a course but don't do it if you don't want too. Then every half year but a brain dump and study it over a weekend, sit the test and done.

Management won't really care but if you add 2 certs a year it's an easy win for you and for you manager come review time.

And sure who knows the certs may come in handy in the future

jrosen · 07-11-2020 1:04pm

I think its great to see companies offer up and encourage paths to progress but equally there is nothing wrong with being happy and content where you are.
All companies need the steady eddies.

Smee_Again · 07-11-2020 1:04pm

I work in a multinational and take on whatever extra training they are willing to pay for.

I’ve no interest in actually progressing, I’ve a cushy well paid job at the minute, but if I can improve my skill set without taking on extra responsibility I’d be mad not to.

biko · 07-11-2020 1:14pm

"What do you hope to achieve during next year?"
"Not get laid off..."

optogirl · 07-11-2020 1:15pm

85603 wrote: »

Then they pull a maternity.

The cheek of them. Impregnating themselves and then going on holiday. I 'pulled a maternity' twice. Sat at home doing nothing except keeping a small child alive. Well worth 18+ years of responsibility to get some time off work.

OP - my work also has these end of year self assessment things. Painful but I've been there 12 years now so know to just fill them in and nod and smile. Companies need people who are happy to come in, do the job and go home but for some reason you have to pretend that you want to be the next head of department anyway.

Strumms · 07-11-2020 2:13pm

The US multinational I worked for rolled these out online...

In fairness the couple of courses I did were pretty good, very good.But trying to find the time to do them was impossible...

About once or twice a week I’d stay at my desk even during break and lunch but it was impossible, you’d remind people verbally and via email in advance that you were not available, to be left alone, phone and messenger on make busy, work mobile off...

Still... “ sorry Strumms, I know you are busy, but can you look at your email quickly and tell us what you think “. “ Strumms, I have Michael on the phone from sales about xyx can you just have a quick chat it’s about the customer presentation ?.... because you are AT your desk you are available (apparently) despite informing the world you are NOT.

Potential-Monke · 07-11-2020 9:50pm

The problem I have with these courses is A: I didn't need them to get the job, B: I don't need them to do my job, and C: They won't pay for the recertification every few years, and I'm not paying for them so....

Ah twas a bit of a rant. I do enjoy the job, but I hate the self-progressing nonsense, simply because not everyone will get a promotion or move up with them, because places are limited. And while I understand that having the certs might make it easier to get another job, I don't know if I'd continue to work in the same area if this doesn't work out. Seems like they wanted network engineers without paying for network engineers (I'm a good 40k below what they would be getting).

But it's these self assessment things I hate. I think I'm doing fine, and I don't need to make up some corporate BS worded replies to what are honestly shockingly terrible "Aren't we a great company, aren't we, AREN'T WE!?!?!?!" pat on the back management crap. I'm pretty sure that's why I have TL, a manager, his manager and the support manager all above me. It's making me do their job, because they're too far up their own managers hole to be bothered to actually see if I'm doing what I should be doing.

I worked for a different company which was taken over by this one after I had left years and years ago. Back then, there was none of this crap. Your TL spoke to you on a weekly basis, they did their job and you got feedback. Now you've to give you own feedback and then your TL either agrees or otherwise. It's a terrible model imo. I don't believe that checking your own work after the fact is helpful in the slightest, especially in this role where most things are still relatively new and the training was lacking. We spent the last 9 months creating and improving a process for something the company has been doing for years, but not 1 person was able to do it from start to finish properly. Only after 9 months have we a single document showing all the steps. But yet I was supposed to be able to self asses myself on something that nobody else was able to assess properly anyway. Just a disaster waiting to happen really (we have averted some other disasters waiting to happen because of this process).

I just want to be left to do what I was hired to do, and not have to self manage myself. I'm not management material, I do what I'm asked and wait for the next thing to be done. I'm proactive insofar as if something comes in and I can work it, I'll work it. But I'm far too negative on myself to complete these things in the company way (again, last job had me re-word some feedback because it wasn't "management appropriate"... In other words, it wasn't covered in a ball of wool so management won't get hurt reading it... ugh).

I did complete it though, and the first few questions got a paragraph answer. By the last question, I was down to a 6 word sentence. Thing is, even the TL and their manager knows this is BS, but still insist on it instead of challenging the HR twats who robbed this from some American company and don't actually have to complete it themselves.

Rant 2 over... :pac:

Edit: Oh, TL;DR - boo self assessment crap.

Ubbquittious · 07-11-2020 10:07pm

I never worked in a company that has these. I'm glad to say

What draws people to the corporate world? I can't shtick corporate bull**** at all.

Potential-Monke · 07-11-2020 10:13pm

It was a job and I needed one. That's literally the only reason for now!

Smee_Again · 07-11-2020 10:22pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I never worked in a company that has these. I'm glad to say

What draws people to the corporate world? I can't shtick corporate bull**** at all.

Salary, pension, benefits and security.

My dad worked for himself for 40-odd years and would rarely have actual time off and had all the pressures of running a business.

Screw that, let me clock out at 5pm and collect a paycheque at the end of the month.

COVID · 07-11-2020 10:22pm

Ranjo wrote: »

There is mixed emotions in your post. First you seem happy with your current job and no major intentions to change. That's fine and can be stated in the end of year review.

Second, you're trashing your employer's intention to enable those who do want to grow.

Be honest in your review. You're happy, the job is good, you don't feel there are any skill gaps to plug with training (your manager may say otherwise if different work is on the horizon).

Dont feel the need to fill out a loads of BS because you think that's what they want to hear.

If you don't ask people 'How does that make you feel' for a living, then you should.
You've got that counsellor shít down dude.

sameoldname · 07-11-2020 10:23pm

I worked at a place once where I was asked to fill out a self assessment form when there were only 3 of us working there, and 2 of those were the company founders!

I wouldn't have minded so much but for the fact that this wasn't a role I had trained for and basically I was to learn on the job, which was fine but how in the name of all that's holy can you judge yourself on work you've never done before and had no one else in the company to judge yourself against?!

The only reason this had come up was because I asked for more training while we had downtime and that was their response! :rolleyes:

I left a month after being handed the form.

suicide_circus · 07-11-2020 10:39pm

I was looking for a job and then I found a job and heaven knows i'm miserable now.

Bob Harris · 07-11-2020 10:56pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

I was looking for a job and then I found a job and heaven knows i'm miserable now.

The next line is also very apt for OP's plight (which i sympathise with btw)

In my life Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

Yikesoc3 · 07-11-2020 11:07pm

Bob Harris wrote: »

The next line is also very apt for OP's plight (which i sympathise with btw)

In my life Why do I give valuable time
To people who don't care if I live or die?

Time is not valuable. We all have more or less an equal amount of time.

Bob Harris · 07-11-2020 11:11pm

Yikesoc3 wrote: »

Time is not valuable. We all have more or less an equal amount of time.

“A man who dares to waste an hour of time has not discovered the value of his life.”
— Charles Darwin

bertiebomber · 07-11-2020 11:48pm

American bolloxolgy turned me off the work place i was more intelligent and more educated than my manager and these pep talks and improvement measures bored me to death.

At the end of the day slavery never went away they just moved the pieces - instead of leg shackles we now have mortgages as the slave masters. Capitalism = slavery stay if you must. But as to listening to the bolloxolgy just let it in one ear and straight through out the other , pretend to care and just do the time. Dont be killing yourself for the guy on the super - yacht !!

Potential-Monke · 08-11-2020 12:38am

bertiebomber wrote: »

Dont be killing yourself for the guy on the super - yacht !!

I did a bit of Googling for the craic, and ended up with the chairman of the overall parent company is worth just shy of $30 billion... Bet he doesn't fill in any of this shyte! But he is Asian, so that's a whole different ball game.

If only I could find a waiters job that pays €35k a year... I'd nearly even shave the beard!

yoke · 08-11-2020 3:53am

Ubbquittious:
What draws people to the corporate world? I can't shtick corporate bull**** at all.

Well to be honest what draws me to stay in the corporate world is:
1. My direct boss and his boss are decent, and don’t have unrealistic expectations (which seems to be rampant in small companies because the owner usually wouldn’t have done my job before).
2. Salary is considerably higher than I’d get in a small company.
3. I’m basically my own boss, my boss would only need to step in if I stopped managing my role to his satisfaction.
4. Because I’m effectively managing myself, it gives me a lot of spare time to pursue my non-work interests and also I’m around for my kids if they need me.
5. I don’t have to justify my presence or salary to my boss every 6 months as it’s not a contract role.

I can still bitch about the annoying things like the OP is doing, but IMO it’s still the best place to work for me.

bilbot79 · 08-11-2020 4:04am

The desire to further oneself is what makes most people perform well. If they cater to that what's the problem, if they encourage it even better.

In your post you come across a bit moany and anti-establishment which is fine once you don't display it in work. Remember all people's attitudes reflect on others around them. If the company wants it culture to be a certain way then the employees need to deliver on that. Buying into the culture is as much part of the job as the actual work you do so you should embrace it.

yoke · 08-11-2020 4:10am

bilbot79 wrote: »

The desire to further oneself is what makes most people perform well. If they cater to that what's the problem, if they encourage it even better.

In your post you come across a bit moany and anti-establishment which is fine once you don't display it in work. Remember all people's attitudes reflect on others around them. If the company wants it culture to be a certain way then the employees need to deliver on that. Buying into the culture is as much part of the job as the actual work you do so you should embrace it.

I disagree with this sentiment totally. Having a false sense of “happy culture”/establishment results in a toxic place to work where no one trusts each other and will actually result in higher turnover among staff. At least this has been my experience.

It’s far better to encourage better and open rapport with management, which gives management a chance to fix problems. The only companies this doesn’t work for, is companies with **** management who don’t want to fix the problems to begin with, either way it results in high staff turnover.

In a past role (about 8 years ago) during one of these “obligatory performance reviews” which lasted about 5 minutes, my direct manager once semi-joked with me if I was watching Jerry Springer all day or what. I said I was mostly working on my fitness and martial arts, and anyway I’d be watching Jeremy Kyle not Jerry Springer. I was also only half-joking

He had no complaints about my performance. I ****ed off back home after, and he went back to whatever the **** he used to do in his office all day.
That is the way it should be.

Some people aren’t interested in putting in the time and effort required to change into a new and more senior role, and that is actually a good thing when they’re performing well and there aren’t many new roles available anyway in the company for whatever reason.

Potential-Monke · 08-11-2020 9:00am

bilbot79 wrote: »

The desire to further oneself is what makes most people perform well. If they cater to that what's the problem, if they encourage it even better.

In your post you come across a bit moany and anti-establishment which is fine once you don't display it in work. Remember all people's attitudes reflect on others around them. If the company wants it culture to be a certain way then the employees need to deliver on that. Buying into the culture is as much part of the job as the actual work you do so you should embrace it.

Oh I don't, much in the same way everyone else doesn't until there's no management around and then we all have a great bitch about it. Well, used to, not so much while WFH as some people don't trust the private chats in Teams.

But I agree with yoke, it's not something that should be pushed onto employees. If they want to take part, great, but if they don't and are still performing their job as required, there should be no negative side of it. The fake agreement and smiling and "everything is great" attitude is draining tbh, and I can see that in many other people too.

Just let me do what you hired me to do, tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could do something better, and leave it at that. Companies need to realise that a lot of employees know they're just a number, but are happy to be just a number and left to it.

Degag · 08-11-2020 11:35am

There is a certain merit to them. In the past i've gotten pay rises, increased bonuses and in a roundabout way a promotion because of them.

In the past i've also spent way longer than i should have completing them - i'm talking days and days - because some managers give them too much merit.

When done correctly by the employee and used correctly by an organisation, it can mean that someone comes to eye of management who may not have done so before. Now you may not necessarily want that as you don't want any added workload and the pressure that goes with it but it might also lead to better remuneration.

Just as to be a bit of common sense to the whole approach.

whisky_galore · 08-11-2020 12:00pm

yoke wrote: »

I disagree with this sentiment totally. Having a false sense of “happy culture”/establishment results in a toxic place to work where no one trusts each other and will actually result in higher turnover among staff. At least this has been my experience.

It’s far better to encourage better and open rapport with management, which gives management a chance to fix problems. The only companies this doesn’t work for, is companies with **** management who don’t want to fix the problems to begin with, either way it results in high staff turnover.

Worked for a small family run company whose management had "notions", went to one too many management workshops, brought in the trappings of what they thought worked for multinationals, but on the cheap and without fixing problems that were already there.
People left in droves.

One guy, newly taken on, had a look around on his first day and never came back for a second.

By all accounts, they still haven't figured out why they have a high staff turnover. It was a petty, toxic environment to work in.

CountNjord · 08-11-2020 12:14pm

Better off getting a menial job in a semi state around 20 year's ago and you'd be heading to the top of your scale and probably earning twice the salary of the manager from outside on a 2 year's contract, telling you how to do your job and asking you how the place works as well..

There's men sweeping the floor on better terms and conditions than the management, so if you had that kind of job you could easily write a book, zero bringing the laptop home, no phone calls from your manager after hours.

No 60 hour weeks filling the pocket's of CEOs and investors, the only target you'll have is the same target every day...

Some of the people with the best and most interesting lifestyle have these kind of jobs so that they can have a life.

Sounds counter productive, but at the end of the day it's a secure job , you've no hassle and your kid's will have a better future and job security is better than job insecurity.

o1s1n · 08-11-2020 12:16pm

Something that's even worse than filling out these forms,
Once you become a manager and have reporting agents under you, you've to work through these forms with them and review their content.

You really start to see behind the curtain at that stage.

Where I worked it was all just done to create a bell curve to work out bonus percentages.

Thing is, the forms people filled out had nothing to do with it, management would sit down and work out who was getting what based on our anecdotal experience with each person.

Those forms were all just busy work and to motivate the employees.

Looking back, they're such bloody awful places to work. The faux enthusiasm and utter lack of any kind of sincerity in these processes is awful.

An Ri rua · 08-11-2020 12:20pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

If you're good looking enough your sorted no matter how intelligent you are

No matter how non-intelligent you are.

Ps pics or you're spoofing.

Smee_Again · 09-11-2020 2:17pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Something that's even worse than filling out these forms,
Once you become a manager and have reporting agents under you, you've to work through these forms with them and review their content.

You really start to see behind the curtain at that stage.

Where I worked it was all just done to create a bell curve to work out bonus percentages.

Thing is, the forms people filled out had nothing to do with it, management would sit down and work out who was getting what based on our anecdotal experience with each person.

Those forms were all just busy work and to motivate the employees.

Looking back, they're such bloody awful places to work. The faux enthusiasm and utter lack of any kind of sincerity in these processes is awful.

I always hated the calibration meetings, managers just pushing for their favourites to be moved up a grade with no bearing on how those people had performed.

mariaalice · 09-11-2020 2:35pm

I do believe in life long learning and all that in theory.

At some stage we must have got as good as we are ever going to be at the job, not going to go for promotion, just want to get on with it, dont need to be improving ourselves, or doing more training beyond the mandatory training all jobs have.

There should be space to say..no I am grand as I am.

09-11-2020 3:37pm

worded wrote: »

The three stages of employment in some places

1 ~ spring lamb. All entuastic
2 ~ apathy
3 ~ madness. Don't fight it. Go with it

In other places:

1 ~ You'll make a few gaffes. We accept that.
2 ~ You're working to specified role. Ok. You'll get the average bonus too. And the pen etc.
3 ~ You're long in the tooth. Sure, you have the degree and the other qualifications that tick the boxes but there's that little something missing. We don't know what it is. You've enough training and we won't spend any more training you. Familiarity breeds comtempt.

nj27 · 09-11-2020 4:06pm

Wrong thread

Zascar · 09-11-2020 4:35pm

Like it or not, multinationals are under the never-ending quest for growth in incredibly competitive marketplaces and need to continually invest in training and improvement for the workforce. Lots of people like this and use it as a great opportunity to learn and grow, for themselves and their careers. They actively hire people who are adaptable and open-minded with a good attitude and give them training both formal and on the job, even giving education allowances - to better serve their roles and help their own careers. The smart people take all they can.

I've done pretty well in this environment, jumping between several different companies, getting a wide breadth of experience in different sectors, I've done countless training courses and worked in different departments. I then got the opportunity to go overseas with a company to build a new business and since then I've moved on to a different smaller company who want my experience and expertise to help to do the same. Over the years I've worked closely with hundreds of people - most happy to go with the flow, ignore the annoying Americanised bs if it annoys them so much, but take what they can to invest and grow their skills and career opportunities. But then there are the rest who do nothing but constantly bitch and whine and every little thing they are asked to do (aka 'Their Job') with little interest in actually growing personally and professionally. It's terrible as they drag everyone else in the team down and make managers jobs a lot more difficult. They usually won't get very far in the company and perhaps will be managed out eventually.

Personally I never understood it. OK not everyone is going to be a CEO but most in these environments want to learn new skills, experience new roles, better their career and ultimately - make more money to better their live and their family. For those who don't, then multinationals are not a great place - perhaps a career in the civil service or similar would be better suited.

Mrs OBumble · 09-11-2020 4:45pm

Today, the Civil Service also has PMDS. Deadheads who think that they can stay employed for a lifetime without learning new skills won't survive there, either.

topper75 · 09-11-2020 4:58pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Just let me do what you hired me to do, tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could do something better, and leave it at that. Companies need to realise that a lot of employees know they're just a number, but are happy to be just a number and left to it.

It really should be that simple. They are only paying you a salary after all. They haven't bought your mind/soul.

mariaalice · 09-11-2020 5:01pm

Zascar wrote: »

Like it or not, multinationals are under the never-ending quest for growth in incredibly competitive marketplaces and need to continually invest in training and improvement for the workforce. Lots of people like this and use it as a great opportunity to learn and grow, for themselves and their careers. They actively hire people who are adaptable and open-minded with a good attitude and give them training both formal and on the job, even giving education allowances - to better serve their roles and help their own careers. The smart people take all they can.

I've done pretty well in this environment, jumping between several different companies, getting a wide breadth of experience in different sectors, I've done countless training courses and worked in different departments. I then got the opportunity to go overseas with a company to build a new business and since then I've moved on to a different smaller company who want my experience and expertise to help to do the same. Over the years I've worked closely with hundreds of people - most happy to go with the flow, ignore the annoying Americanised bs if it annoys them so much, but take what they can to invest and grow their skills and career opportunities. But then there are the rest who do nothing but constantly bitch and whine and every little thing they are asked to do (aka 'Their Job') with little interest in actually growing personally and professionally. It's terrible as they drag everyone else in the team down and make managers jobs a lot more difficult. They usually won't get very far in the company and perhaps will be managed out eventually.

Personally I never understood it. OK not everyone is going to be a CEO but most in these environments want to learn new skills, experience new roles, better their career and ultimately - make more money to better their live and their family. For those who don't, then multinationals are not a great place - perhaps a career in the civil service or similar would be better suited.

There is a difference between learning something new and relevant to the job versus more training just to tick a box that says they did more training.

The incessant requirement to "further" yourself at work

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