Demons Souls

Isn't January 2009 a bit early for the beginning of the sequel development-wise? If the original hadn't even been released yet then would they even have had the backing for a sequel that early?

It was a risky IP to begin with.

F1ngers wrote: »

Don't you have the US version?

This is for the Asian version...sorry, should've been clearer in my post. I put "asian" in the title of my post.

Oops. Still, I would be very surprised if they pass up the chance to do something for the Valentines 'holiday' - my money is on a similar announcement soon.

GothPunk wrote: »

Considering From Software's previous output, it wasn't really a risky IP for them at all, especially considering the had Sony Japan as publisher (i.e. they got paid cash). Demon's Souls is the spiritual successor to From Software's Kings Field series which they had success with. The game was released in February 2009 in Japan and it's common for sequels to be given the green light before the first game has seen release. There has been less time between Armoured Core 4 and 5 than there would be between Demon's Souls and a Demon's Souls 2 released in say, October.

Well, that certainly offsets the risk in terms of a loss GP but pouring more money into a sequel (whether or not that money is readily available from Sony Japan) before the success of the original game has been determined still seems a bit unlikely to me personally.

They could easily have decided Sony Japan's money would be better served on another IP/franchise had DS not been as popular as it is now. Basically I mean just having the money isn't enough - you still are unlikely to risk it on a sequel for an IP that hadn't even been released.

GothPunk wrote: »

Ah yes, but the involvement of Sony Japan is the clincher - the PS3 needs more RPGs in Japan, the PS3 needs more exclusive RPGs in Japan, and Sony Japan must have been confident enough in Demon's Souls to have invested in it as publisher in the first place (or maybe they just wanted to guarantee exclusivity). How do you think so many games/sequels to games end up getting cancelled? It's because many of them are started before the original game or developer or whatever has even proven themselves or been released. Plus it's possible Demon's Souls was finished (i.e. 'gone gold') and being pressed onto discs well before the February '09 release date.

On a side note - Demon's Souls is now estimated to have sold between 300,000 and 350,000 copies. For a single platform HD RPG release for a niche title like Demon's Souls, that's phenomenal! It actually did better in North America than it did in Japan. It puzzles me as to why Sony Europe or Atlus USA haven't secured publishing rights for Europe. Madness.

I think we are getting off the point a little, bar some possibilities that the game went gold (we should be able to find those figures) before it was released, how it sold subsequent to launch is still not the issue.

The need for PS3 RPGs (that are exclusive) is not at issue either, however I just see it as hard to believe that the company would take the risk of financing a sequel before the original is released, particularly in the current economic climate. It would be a serious and unnecessary commitment - why wouldn't the company keep its options open and if the game suffers from disappointing sales then it can throw its money and resources at another RPG project.

You make the point about sequels being cancelled once the original game doesn't sell well but your previous example was for Armoured Core 4 and 5. I would argue that it is a completely different kettle of fish for games which are already well into their number sequels. At that stage they already have an established fanbase from previous titles, for FF14 (or any FF really) being started way before 13 was released - the brand is already established.

I only mentioned Armoured Core 4 and 5 as they're developed by From Software also, had a short time between them (about a year and 3 months max) but there was actually an improvement in the games between number 4 and 5. (Actually I shouldn't be calling it Armoured Core 5, it's Armoured Core For Answer, the sequel to Armoured Core 4, Armoured Core 5 won't be out for a while).

Anyways, I understand you, but from what I know From Software and Sony Japan Studio are profitable businesses and can afford to green light sequels due to market predictions. You're telling me a Japanese game company would hesitate to start pre-production on an RPG? Whilst Demon's Souls is a new IP, it's similar to From Software's previous success with King's Field. Plus when you green light a sequel to a game just before the first one is released, you're not really spending that much money - you're throwing out ideas and starting initial pre-production stuff.

If they didn't start sequel talks until March last year (which by then Demon's Souls had sold out it's entire first shipment), that would still be more time From Software had to make the sequel to Armoured Core 4. No reason to think they are rushing it when they're a studio that can make a well received game in 18-24 months. Hell for all we know they made Demon's Souls in 18-24 months! :pac:

Look at us getting carried away with sequel talk, this is all rumour at the moment, but I do enjoy speculating as to what's going on. Here's a quote from the director of Demon's Souls, Hidetaka Miyazaki, about the possibility of a sequel. Link to full interview.

Hidetaka Miyazaki wrote:

I’m just an employee of the development company, so I can’t directly answer whether there’ll be a sequel to Demon’s Souls. With that said, my personal opinion is that we learned a lot during the development of Demon’s Souls, and there were a lot of things that we couldn’t do the first time, so I’d welcome the chance to create an even better game in the same style if the opportunity arises.

That's the kind of talk we always hear from Japanese games people when they're already working on a sequel. Like when people were asking about a sequel to Valkyria Chronicles, the Sega guys were saying stuff like they were 'interested' and stuff like that, when they were already working on it!

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well Atlus have no presence in Europe so that ruled them out automatically and Sony Europe are idiots and probably reckoned that the hardcore fanbase of Demons Souls had already imported. The only hope it had was a smaller publisher like Rising Star to take it up but it would have been too much of an investment to support the game with servers.

You're dead right, I think I've been playing too many PS2 games and getting mixed up in that Atlus developed those games and didn't publish them.

I would think that Southpeak Games, who are publishing 3D Dot Game Heroes here, could pick it up. Could KoeiTecmo, Ghostlight or Square Europe who have published lots of Atlus's PS2 games here be a possibility? Or are we past that era now? Ghostlight are publishing Record of Agarest War here so they're definitely still publishing console titles. Hmm, perhaps it's one of those things we'll never really know the answer to. I just hope we don't end up having to import all the future great JRPGs. :pac:

noodler wrote: »

Well when you initially said 'in development' I take that to be past the 'discussion' phase to be fair.

Given the costs with HD games this generation etc I honestly do think it is unrealistic to think they were full speed ahead with a sequel before the original came out.

I just think it is a far more likely scenario, again if a sequel to DS IS the game in question, that it is simply being rushed a little.

That was the point of my Valkyria Chronicles example - developers are always playing coy about sequels, saying they're open to the idea when in fact they're already working on it. Sequels are much cheaper anyways - you've already got a game engine running and probably have some assets and ideas left over from the first game. I'm not sure what we can say about the cost of a game for From Software, they certainly churn them out quick enough.

It's just think it's short sighted to say it's going to be a ruch job when a) You don't know when they started development and b) The developer often makes games in a relatively short period of time and c) You don't know how long it took to make the first game. Hey maybe it will be a rush job and be a disappointment but I'll always have the relative perfection that is the first game.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's the running cost of the servers needed to support the online mode that would be the big put off for companies. Publishers like Koei and Ghostlight are tiny and wouldn't have the money or be able to take the risk. They buy IP's cheap, churn out a cheap conversion and then sell copies. Square Enix would be the only one big enough to do this but then again Square Enix Europe are a pretty poor publisher.

I swear I am not naturally argumentative or anything (yeah right) but I would have thought the DS servers were far less intensive than others. I mean the messages and death replays are occassional as are the PVP?

Not to mention with sales of around 350,000 (or was that just Asia GP?) you wouldn't expect the EU ones to be overly-packed, would you? Maybe I am underestimating/miscalculating that the cost of having the servers active IN THE CASE of a big influx (regardless of low us on any given day) are where the true costs lie.

Tried to get back into this tonight.

Starting to regret all the GOTY talk, the hardness novelty has worn off.

Tried 5-2, walking at a snails pace's through poison mud.. Just ended up turning it off after 90 minutes off my life I won't get back and no real progress.

I'd probably prefer checkpoint (even hafl level ones in the next game), if not then at least makable short cuts in EVERY level.

I actually only started and then beat 5-2 earlier today. It was a pain in the arse alright but at least the boss fight at the end is easy. I got killed by the Black Phantom with the Meat Cleaver in the swamp twice I think before I finally made it to the boss. I decided to stop looking for treasure and to just focus on reaching the end and unlocking the shortcut. If you have the Regenerator's Ring it really makes the whole level much easier.

Finished 1-3 earlier as well, the level design there is just great. Got the Mausoleum Key so I'll have to try my hand at beating Old King Doran tomorrow.

I think I might finish the game tomorrow or next weekend, depending on how many bosses I can get through. You really fly through the game once you've beaten the first 2 bosses in each world, I'll probably end up starting New Game + straight away.

Is Black Tendency actually in effect at the moment?

Went looking for a Primevil Demon on 4-2 and all I found was a dual weiding black skeleton

Im getting pissed off with it.

Blue Dragon, you actually want me to stand there and pump 400 arrows into him?

Where on earth is the gameplay in that?

The NPC BPs are so easy though. As it's my first playthrough I want the items they drop (like the Talisman of Beasts that I got by killing Scivir). I only need to kill 3 more of them and I'll have PWCT, so it's no big deal for me (although killing Selen Vinland will probably be hard).

I think I'd like to get the foe's ring through Mephistopheles for the challenge, it'll just be funny to me to have to kill Yuria and Saint Urbain. Then again, people have said that the BP NPCs were hard but I thought they were very easy so far. I do enjoy invading although I haven't really had the time as I've been focusing on farming ores and all the PWWT and PBWT stuff.

noodler, do you not have any good spells that'll help you against the blue dragon? Or any kunai that you can through to poison it? Are you attacking it the first time you see it in 1-4 (the part where it roasts the fat minister) or the second time. The second time you see it you should be able to get close enough to use poison and plague. It's not resistant to fire btw so use fire magic if you have it.

Cheers, I'll leave him for now I think. Now if I could just hold on to some souls and not die before I get back to the maiden!

I think I already got that just by wandering around. Haven't tried using it yet though, had no idea it was good!

noodler wrote: »

Took its health down to half the first time then he flies off.

Second part: I kept my distance and fired arrows but I couldn't quite see if the health car was showing up amidst all that fire (maybe the arrows burn up?).

Anyway, found a safe place and kept spamming him and eventually I looked up at the screen from the laptop to find I was dead. Maybe the fire range extends once the other guy is dead, I dunno.

Ouch. Okay, what soul level are you? I'm level 80, would you like to try and co-op it? Not sure if you know this but you need to be within 10 levels of someone to co-op so dunno if we'd be able to.

Im only Soul Lvl 60 but only have this, 4-3 and 5-2 to do.

I have a Long Compound Bow+9 (wanted to do it fully but ran out of pure chunks of Hardstone and the Gekkos on 2-2 stopped appearing).

I don't feel like my soul level is a problem. I brought around 400 Hard arrows the last time and it was a pain to waste so many of them. I will have to see if I can get close enough to use a Kunai, I haven't done much soul farming in the game (bar maybe for flamelurker and for firestorm).