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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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    #812
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    Selling the clubs to their supporters is what should be done
    Then remove aid and the foreign based players ban
    The provinces should then only pick Irish players with a complete ban on projects

    Ireland would develop real strength as players would have an avenue to develop
    Without fear of the ban.

    But players do develop. Leinster have had a NIQ 2nd row for God knows how long, still had Ryan and moloney come through, with lots of time for toner when not reserved for ireland.
    lord quackinton wrote: »
    My suggestions I believe would hurt the provinces initially but I think long term it would help them

    The provinces would be constantly developing talent as any player could go abroad at any stage and still represent Ireland.

    This already happens and those who go abroad tend to be decent squad fillers. Most of them wont really make the step up. Unless you're thinking of donnacha or zebo. Who are we blocking?


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    #813
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    JRant wrote: »
    But Schmidt did a lot of the things you're asking for, especially at Leinster.
    He picked teams to beat the opposition, regularly changing the lineups.
    The players were often on the shoulder looking for the offload or pop pass off the ground.
    They played great attacking rugby.

    So what happened this past 12 months?

    To me it comes down to straight forward staleness. The gameplan was stale, the players were stale and the results followed. I also feel, like many others, that he just didn't get enough young blood into the team to freshen things up. It's very hard to keep a team motivated, especially when certain members of the team are playing like a drain and still getting picked.

    I've loved everything he's done for club and country but this past 12 months have been an unmitigated disaster for him.

    Leinster yes, not Ireland though. Rarely were there offloads


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    #814
    lord quackinton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 352 ✭✭lord quackinton


    Of course if your province comes first to you then my ideas are not going to go down well


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    #815
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    What difference will removing the foreign based player policy make realistically

    Lookit, we could have had Zeebs, Madser, and Macken setting our backline alight had we relaxed the rule for the world cup year.


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    #816
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭OldRio


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    It is more economical for Wales and England and Scotland to pay the clubs then run the clubs themselves.
    Wales and England rfu do not want to take control of the clubs

    The irfu is running 4 provinces financially
    It is costing millions per annum
    What is becoming obvious is that The current set up suits the provinces and hinders Ireland.
    You've not really thought this out have you.


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    #817
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    bilston wrote: »
    I just hope people give Andy Farrell a chance. I have a feeling that 2020 might prove to be a difficult Six Nations, I also get the sense that some are already quite down on Farrell. England and France away will be tough and Wales at home won't be easy either.

    But he needs time and patience. I'd hope it's March 2021 before people start drawing their conclusions on him.

    Ireland have a very poor record in year after world cup. 08, 12 and 16 were disasters really. Managed only 2 wins each campaign

    Could well be the same next year, as I certainly don't see wins in Paris or London, and Wales is 50/50.

    Like yourself I hope he's not too harshly judged on that campaign and march 2021 is a far more realistic timeframe to start making credible assessments


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    #818
    penybont exile
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    jacothelad wrote: »
    This is exactly the reason that I couldn't care much about the RWC. It's a lottery up to the last rounds. Get a favourable draw and you are set. If Wales had been playing the ABs today they'd have been annihilated yet they get a semi v. SA while France bow out. I much prefer the rugby played in season, even the much maligned Pro 14.



    Japan had their team together for 265+ days, SA and Abs just played their championship. I suspect that Ireland et al would be more competitive if the RWC was a few weeks after the 6Ns.

    Sorry but that is bordering on nonsense ..... if Ireland had beaten Japan they'd have played SA ...... if Wales had lost to Oz they'd have played England ..... you reap what you sow ....


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    #819
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    Selling the clubs to their supporters is what should be done
    Then remove aid and the foreign based players ban
    The provinces should then only pick Irish players with a complete ban on projects

    Ireland would develop real strength as players would have an avenue to develop
    Without fear of the ban.

    As I said. You clearly go to any provincial games if you’re calling for this.


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    #820
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    Selling the clubs to their supporters is what should be done
    Then remove aid and the foreign based players ban
    The provinces should then only pick Irish players with a complete ban on projects

    Ireland would develop real strength as players would have an avenue to develop
    Without fear of the ban.

    You can’t tell the provinces what to do once they are sold, they couldn’t be told to not pick only Irish players. Your plan weakens Ireland even more. I really don’t see what you think would be achieved by dropping the ban on overseas players as it again weakens rugby in Ireland. You seem to have nailed your colours to a mast and are happy to argue wherever the wind blows you.


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    #821
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    It was funded by the irfu and dept of sport as well as the wall family

    And without the Wall family input it wouldn't happen


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    #822
    Professor Genius
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 391 ✭✭Professor Genius


    Sexton will announce international retirement next week


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    #823
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Lookit, we could have had Zeebs, Madser, and Macken setting our backline alight had we relaxed the rule for the world cup year.

    which of those 3 would have started lol


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    #824
    lord quackinton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 352 ✭✭lord quackinton


    If the provinces are sold to the supporters then what’s the issue I think in fairness that is an idea worth investigating

    Also if you brought in some of my ideas the provinces would suffer but Ireland would flourish.

    Wales England are proof My ideas have merit


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    #825
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    If the provinces are sold to the supporters then what’s the issue I think in fairness that is an idea worth investigating

    Also if you brought in some of my ideas the provinces would suffer but Ireland would flourish.

    Wales England are proof My ideas have merit

    What if the sold provinces decided to just play southern hemisphere players? You could see that happening in Connacht for example. To allow them get up to challenging for a Heineken Cup faster.

    What if none of the 4 provinces played an irish outhalf?


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    #826
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    lord quackinton wrote: »
    If the provinces are sold to the supporters then what’s the issue I think in fairness that is an idea worth investigating

    Also if you brought in some of my ideas the provinces would suffer but Ireland would flourish.

    Wales England are proof My ideas have merit

    You actually think weaker provinces would make a stronger international team?


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    #827
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Professor Genius wrote: »
    Sexton will announce international retirement next week

    ?? where you hearing this?


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    #828
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Nice piece in the indo: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/billy-keane-sexton-is-heartbroken-last-night-he-sent-the-message-gutted-tried-my-best-38614358.html


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    #829
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/battered-van-der-flier-is-left-to-ponder-another-four-years-of-learnings-38614375.html

    Can we please ban this word learnings....


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    #830
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


      shootermacg wrote: »
      Nice piece in the indo: https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/billy-keane-sexton-is-heartbroken-last-night-he-sent-the-message-gutted-tried-my-best-38614358.html

      Yeah but according to many on here it's only a game it doesn't matter. This will linger with the man cause it does matter

      Nice piece, its true regarding the GAA. But in the end we weren't meant to play New Zealand. The excuses about classes doesn't extend to Japan.

      but Eamon Sweeney who is a rugby fan also has two good pieces. And it can't just be dismissed like the paid troll.

      https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/eamonn-sweeney-from-busgate-to-ref-errors-repeated-excuses-show-a-refusal-to-accept-failure-38614379.html


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      #831
      blinding
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


      Professor Genius wrote: »
      Sexton will announce international retirement next week
      Not out of the question and perhaps he should . Sexton always considered himself a winner and what has been going on is not that of a winner .


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      #832
      FrancieBrady
      Registered Users Posts: 67,045 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


      'Not good enough' doesn't cover it, because he simply is good enough and has proved he is good enough.

      I find it very hard still to figure out what happened with Johnny on Saturday.


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      #833
      awec
      Administrators Posts: 53,434 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


      blinding wrote: »
      Not out of the question and perhaps he should . Sexton always considered himself a winner and what has been going on is not that of a winner .

      It is out of the question.

      Players don't get to announce international retirement. It's not like football, the concept doesn't exist in Irish Rugby. Sexton is contracted to play for Ireland.


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      #834
      Squidgy Black
      Registered Users Posts: 21,607 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


      A centrally contracted player can't just announce that he'll retire from international rugby and keep playing for his province. He's contracted by the IRFU and not Leinster, the whole point of him signing a central contract is to guarantee he plays for the international team.


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      #835
      salmocab
      Registered Users Posts: 11,292 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


      If sexton was allowed stop playing for Ireland he’d play more for Leinster meaning Harry Byrne would see less game time and Ross less in the big games. The law of unintended consequences would apply there.


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      #836
      blinding
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


      awec wrote: »
      It is out of the question.

      Players don't get to announce international retirement. It's not like football, the concept doesn't exist in Irish Rugby. Sexton is contracted to play for Ireland.
      What about if both sides agree that this is the best way forward . Surely the IRFU and Johnny won’t have to go to jail :eek::eek:


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      #837
      blinding
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


      salmocab wrote: »
      If sexton was allowed stop playing for Ireland he’d play more for Leinster meaning Harry Byrne would see less game time and Ross less in the big games. The law of unintended consequences would apply there.
      Johnny could go to France to keep Zebo company .

      Or he could retire completely from Rugby .


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      #838
      kingofthekong
      Registered Users Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭kingofthekong


      FellasFellas wrote: »
      The oddest thing I've heard is the anti Welsh brigade from Irish fans. Those clowns on OTB saying before the RWC to Quinlan, 'Who would you rather have win, England or Wales?' and he's humming and hawing and they say, 'Wales would be unbearable if they won it!'.

      Wales have shown time and time again, they do not need a thriving club scene to push hard in the international games when it matters. It's all well and good when Leinster can beat Cardiff 60-0 or something, but Wales have shown us how it's done tbh. Gatland is one of the best coaches in the world and there's this anti-Gatland feeling as well because of 2013, but I'd give him the job over Farrell anyday. They've got less players, a smaller population and far worse clubs, yet they out performed us in the RWC when it matters. Credit where credits due.

      You'd also have to say that we need to take a leaf from their book in terms of getting players into the system earlier. We can't keep waiting and waiting until we're desperate for players and hoping to unearth a James Ryan or Sexton. Craig Casey, Ronan Kelleher, these kinds of guys need to be brought into the Irish setup early and rewarded for their form. Why should we give Niall Scannell and Sean Cronin the rest of the caps for the next few years, and similarly at 9, the fact that Marmion and McGrath are our 2 & 3 scrum halves is laughable. We cannot compete at the top if this is where we are player wise.

      they havent really out performed us at this world cup, Fiji nearly beat them, Uruguay pushed them hard and the should've realistically lost to the French bar a brain fart from Vahamshdytehjfhj - the draw matters a a worldcup and Wales have gotten lucky


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      #839
      awec
      Administrators Posts: 53,434 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


      blinding wrote: »
      What about if both sides agree that this is the best way forward . Surely the IRFU and Johnny won’t have to go to jail :eek::eek:

      IRFU would never agree to it.

      The new coach could stop picking Sexton (unlikely), but he'd always have to be available for selection if needed. He couldn't rule himself out to focus on playing for Leinster.


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      #840
      Niallof9
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


      Lads i don't think Sexton will be retiring. He had a mare but he's spoken of playin till he's forty. He only really started playing regular big time pro at 24 ish , he was in the AIL up to then. Now will we end up with a load of lads doing a besty and then on their big contracts we can't release them or transfer them like in roundball.

      Sexton is on what 700k? Plus sponsorship. How will he leave that? Which means he hangs on blocking devolpment etc. Its my point about the central contracts. Andy Farrell won't have wiggle room to drop him because the money men will be like we are paying into a big black hole. Its a flaw in our oh so perfect system

      As the money gets larger, but not large enough, it gets harder to walk away i think

      By 2023 who knows what Bests will be hanging around.

      There are no guarantees.

      People would have laughed at you if you suggested Rory Best for 2019 after the 2015 World Cup.

      Its a massive flaw in the whole thing.

      We were lucky in the past, as harsh as it sounds, that injuries forced many of the clingers on out. Bowe held on to the bitter end and was included in squads but injuries were too much. ROG in fairness did the right thing and it benefited his coaching career.

      These lads have missed out on the media reshuffle and many will be working 9-5 so its hard to blame them. In reality are they underpaid for what they are doing? Like certain jobs should the shortness of the career or lack of job security be brought into their bargaining position

      Sexton will coach Ireland in the future i think so he'll be ok.


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      #841
      blinding
      Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


      awec wrote: »
      IRFU would never agree to it.

      The new coach could stop picking Sexton (unlikely), but he'd always have to be available for selection if needed. He couldn't rule himself out to focus on playing for Leinster.
      Johnny could retire . It would be fierce funny the IRFU dragging Johnny on to the pitch and forcing him to play .:eek::D:eek:


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