guy fawkes night

PTH2009 · 17-10-2019 2:48pm #1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

How come we dont celebrate it here ???

Jesus if the ejjit didnt get himself caught he could of really changed the state of affairs in history

brainfreeze · 17-10-2019 2:54pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

How come we dont celebrate it here ???

Jesus if the ejjit didnt get himself caught he could of really changed the state of affairs in history

It's no longer celebrated in Ireland as Ireland left the United Kingdom, and it was historically seen as an anti-catholic celebration. A celebration of Guy Fawkes failure to turn the UK into a Catholic Theocracy. Although it is now quite secular in the UK and celebrated by everyone as there isn't any real anti-catholic malice in the celebrations in modern times.

Instead the Irish let out their fireworks and bombfires on Halloween instead of the 5th of November.

biko · 17-10-2019 2:57pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

How come we dont celebrate it here?

We're not English.

Bobblehats · 17-10-2019 3:45pm

I couldn’t give two fawkes

jam_mac_jam · 17-10-2019 3:47pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes_Night

How come we dont celebrate it here ???

Jesus if the ejjit didnt get himself caught he could of really changed the state of affairs in history

We are catholic, we are not British.

Why don't we celebrate Bastille day?

tdf7187 · 17-10-2019 4:19pm

I'm glad Halloween has become more popular in the UK and Guy Fawkes less soon. The latter basically celebrates the burning of a Catholic, that's what its about. Some English people incorrectly think Halloween is an American festival, of course it isn't.

corner of hells · 17-10-2019 4:34pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

I'm glad Halloween has become more popular in the UK and Guy Fawkes less soon. The latter basically celebrates the burning of a Catholic, that's what its about. Some English people incorrectly think Halloween is an American festival, of course it isn't.

I think you'll find he was hung, drawn and quartered rather than burned.

MrAbyss · 17-10-2019 4:36pm

He was a religious fanatic. The Gunpowder Plot was basically a Catholic Jihad.

Dev gave us that for free.

Your Face · 17-10-2019 4:43pm

MrAbyss wrote: »

He was a religious fanatic. The Gunpowder Plot was basically a Catholic Jihad.

Dev gave us that for free.

Dev gave the people want they wanted.

Edgware · 17-10-2019 4:49pm

Michael Myers has escaped!

MrAbyss · 17-10-2019 4:59pm

Your Face wrote: »

Dev gave the people want they wanted.

I am pretty sure the Jesuits in Maynooth were the end of that supply chain.

Bobblehats · 17-10-2019 4:59pm

Edgware wrote: »

Michael Myers has escaped!

You sure it wasn’t bukkake face from slipknot

topper75 · 17-10-2019 5:25pm

Your Face wrote: »

Dev gave the people want they wanted.

Was by no means a one-man op either.

The greater part of the 1916 leadership were RC extremists. A cursory glance at letters they wrote (read them yourself in Kilmainham or Collins barracks) will tell you that.

There was another contingent of that leadership who were socialist extremists: Connolly and his Citizen's Army.

Secular Ireland is not ready to face down the extremist origins of the state. And may not be for a while yet.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-10-2019 5:28pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

How come we dont celebrate it here ???

The English don’t celebrate Guy Fawkes. They celebrate him being caught and killed.

The funny thing is when English people think about it, loads of them are on his side. Especially when they see how corrupt parliament was back then.

But it’s British history so I wouldn’t be bothered to celebrate it one way or the other.

MOH · 17-10-2019 5:30pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We are catholic, we are not British.

Why don't we celebrate Bastille day?

No we aren't

Capt'n Midnight · 17-10-2019 6:09pm

brainfreeze wrote: »

Instead the Irish let out their fireworks and bombfires on Halloween instead of the 5th of November.

And the 30th of April , 23rd of June , 12th of July and the 15th of August.

jam_mac_jam · 17-10-2019 6:09pm

MOH wrote: »

No we aren't

OK. Have a look at the census and a history book and get back to me.

Ipso · 17-10-2019 6:44pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

OK. Have a look at the census and a history book and get back to me.

Ask most of those on the census what the main difference between catholicism and protestantism is and you'll see how catholic they are.

whisky_galore · 17-10-2019 6:54pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We are catholic, we are not British.

A lot of bouncy castle Catholics.

suicide_circus · 17-10-2019 6:56pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

A lot of bouncy castle Catholics.

he didnt say good catholics

whisky_galore · 17-10-2019 7:17pm

Your Face wrote: »

Dev gave the people want they wanted.

You can bet that had poster boy Michael Collins lived he would have been more than happy with a Roman Catholic dominated state.
Home Rule was Rome Rule.

MOH · 17-10-2019 10:45pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

OK. Have a look at the census and a history book and get back to me.

OK. Have done. We aren't Catholic.

PTH2009 · 17-10-2019 11:06pm

https://youtu.be/h1b2w4GxBU0

buried · 17-10-2019 11:25pm

Samhain (Halloween) is a lunar festival, you celebrate it at the turn of the new moon, it's the Celtic new year festival and this year runs from around the 28th October to the 12th November, around that anyways, so everyone has a huge window to celebrate whatever they like, Guy Fawkes, horror films, pumpkins, whatever, just try to remember and celebrate your ancestors what definitely did come before you. That's what Samhain is, was, and will ever be, and our island is the home of it. It is a great thing.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 17-10-2019 11:29pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can bet that had poster boy Michael Collins lived he would have been more than happy with a Roman Catholic dominated state.
Home Rule was Rome Rule.

That was up to the population of Ireland. In any case Ireland was not really an outlier by the standards of the time. The U.K. chemically castrated thousands of homosexuals (who would have been safer in Ireland and most catholic countries).

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/uk-pardon-thousands-gay-men-under-turing-s-law-n670071

Ipso · 17-10-2019 11:40pm

buried wrote: »

Samhain (Halloween) is a lunar festival, you celebrate it at the turn of the new moon, it's the Celtic new year festival and this year runs from around the 28th October to the 12th November, around that anyways, so everyone has a huge window to celebrate whatever they like, Guy Fawkes, horror films, pumpkins, whatever, just try to remember and celebrate your ancestors what definitely did come before you. That's what Samhain is, was, and will ever be, and our island is the home of it. It is a great thing.

A pity Imbolg, Belataine and Lughnasa are'nt as popular.

branie2 · 17-10-2019 11:56pm

It's more of an English thing

buried · 17-10-2019 11:57pm

Ipso wrote: »

A pity Imbolg, Belataine and Lughnasa are'nt as popular.

This is true, I will always try to celebrate those other dates too, especially Imbolg, it's another realtime turn of year event, the evenings do become evident they are becoming longer at that time.
It's just that Samhain, our festival of new year and new beginnings, comes at this time when all the trees, all the indigenous plants, their leaves turn this fiery dramatic colour from green to yellow to red to then the fall to the ground to start the whole cycle and feed the plants again. It's so cool. And can still be seen to this day. It's no wonder humans have associated this time of year to those that have gone before.

Edgware · 18-10-2019 8:56am

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can bet that had poster boy Michael Collins lived he would have been more than happy with a Roman Catholic dominated state.
Home Rule was Rome Rule.

He would have kissed the Bishop's ring

jam_mac_jam · 18-10-2019 9:05am

Ipso wrote: »

Ask most of those on the census what the main difference between catholicism and protestantism is and you'll see how catholic they are.

You don't have to understand anything about Catholicism to be a catholic. There is no exam.

18-10-2019 9:15am

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You don't have to understand anything about Catholicism to be a catholic. There is no exam.

so in order to be Irish, you have to be a catholic?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-10-2019 9:21am

Aegir wrote: »

so in order to be Irish, you have to be a catholic?

?

Trying to find your logical process. Not finding it.

jam_mac_jam · 18-10-2019 9:35am

Aegir wrote: »

so in order to be Irish, you have to be a catholic?

No, of course not. Don't put words in my mouth. I am atheistic myself.
There are plenty of Irish people who are not catholic.

But obviously it is a catholic country culturally and historically where we are not going to celebrate an anti catholic festival from a different country.

Its in our constitution, most of our schools are catholic, a high proportion of people in Ireland would describe themselves as catholic. its a catholic country and a complete nonsense to suggest otherwise. What are we then protestant? Islamic? Secular?

You really have to spell out every little comment you make on here or you are just over analyzed.

18-10-2019 10:11am

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, of course not. Don't put words in my mouth. I am atheistic myself.
There are plenty of Irish people who are not catholic.

But obviously it is a catholic country culturally and historically where we are not going to celebrate an anti catholic festival from a different country.

Its in our constitution, most of our schools are catholic, a high proportion of people in Ireland would describe themselves as catholic. its a catholic country and a complete nonsense to suggest otherwise. What are we then protestant? Islamic? Secular?

You really have to spell out every little comment you make on here or you are just over analyzed.

I was just confused by your statement that “we” are catholic.

Who is this “we” you talk of?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 18-10-2019 11:47am

Aegir wrote: »

I was just confused by your statement that “we” are catholic.

Who is this “we” you talk of?

It’s in your head because it wasn’t in his statement.

El Weirdo · 18-10-2019 12:23pm

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

It’s in your head because it wasn’t in his statement.

To be fair...

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

We are catholic, we are not British.

Why don't we celebrate Bastille day?

topper75 · 18-10-2019 12:35pm

buried wrote: »

Samhain (Halloween) is a lunar festival, you celebrate it at the turn of the new moon, it's the Celtic new year festival and this year runs from around the 28th October to the 12th November, around that anyways, so everyone has a huge window to celebrate whatever they like, Guy Fawkes, horror films, pumpkins, whatever, just try to remember and celebrate your ancestors what definitely did come before you. That's what Samhain is, was, and will ever be, and our island is the home of it. It is a great thing.

I don't think the Irish of old got excited about the moon for its own sake. It was more its agri significance - the end of the harvest.

Kids of today's Ireland for the most part know nothing of sowing not to mind a harvest. The progression by housing estate doors to collect discounter German supermarket sugar bombs in a plastic bag has nothing got to do with the old Samhain thing. It think we can accept that it is dead.

blackwhite · 18-10-2019 2:54pm

MrAbyss wrote: »

He was a religious fanatic. The Gunpowder Plot was basically a Catholic Jihad.

Dev gave us that for free.

It was a lot more complex than that.

Catholics were being violently persecuted under James I (as they had been under his predecessor Elizabeth I also)

The Catholic population had hoped James would prove more tolerant than his aunt, because both his mother and father had actually been Catholics, but he continued the policies of his aunt and grandfather.

The conspiracy to assassinate James had two aims - one was to stop the persecution of Catholics, and the other was to install his daughter as Queen and marry her off to a Catholic prince from Europe. This likely would have resulted in a similar level of persecution levied towards any non-Catholics

Fawkes was only one member of a larger conspiracy. Interesting fact - the ringleader of the plot, Robert Catesby, is a direct ancestor of Kit Harington (who portrayed Catesby in a TV mini-series a few years ago).

jimgoose · 18-10-2019 3:09pm

It should be remembered that England was officially a Roman Catholic country until Henry VIII had his famous mickey trouble in the 1530s.

Ipso · 18-10-2019 4:15pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You don't have to understand anything about Catholicism to be a catholic. There is no exam.

Here’s me thinking belief in the transubstantiation had some importance.

wiggle16 · 18-10-2019 6:21pm

topper75 wrote: »

Was by no means a one-man op either.

The greater part of the 1916 leadership were RC extremists. A cursory glance at letters they wrote (read them yourself in Kilmainham or Collins barracks) will tell you that.

There was another contingent of that leadership who were socialist extremists: Connolly and his Citizen's Army.

Secular Ireland is not ready to face down the extremist origins of the state. And may not be for a while yet.

There's a tendency these days to apply modern terms and ideas to historical figures and it inevitably ends up ignoring the context of the time they lived in.

The 1916 leaders were no more "extremist" in terms of their religion than the rest of the population. They were a product of the society that created them. By today's standards their religious fervour was extreme, but it was not by any means unusual back then, at all.

It's not really possible to call Connolly a socialist extremist. His socialism and the means by which he intended to implement it were of the time. Socialism was a poorly understood boogeyman in Europe in the early part of the last century and anyone who espoused it, whether moderate or hard-line, was considered dangerous.
You have to ask yourself, if Connolly was extreme in his views, then who was moderate? Jim Larkin is usually remembered as a trade unionist but people forget he was one of the founders of the Citizen Army.

That last line in your post is meaningless. What does it mean for the state to face down its extremist origins? How would it do that?

There's nothing to "face down". This has been done to death by decades of historians.

guy fawkes night

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