De Valera & Hitler's Book of Condolence

TheLB · 06-05-2013 6:40pm #1

Like everyone I've heard many times that De Valera infamously signed the book of condolence for Hitler. But where is the book now?? And is there a picture availible of Dev's signature and comment? Who else signed it? Was Dev the first signature in the book, afterall it was said the German diplomats were surprised when Dev walked in, did they have to set up a book especially.

Any help appreciated.

knucklehead6 · 06-05-2013 6:41pm

TheLB wrote: »

Like everyone I've heard many times that De Valera infamously signed the book of condolence for Hitler. But where is the book now?? And is there a picture availible of Dev's signature and comment? Who else signed it? Was Dev the first signature in the book, afterall it was said the German diplomats were surprised when Dev walked in, did they have to set up a book especially.

Any help appreciated.

Was it not a letter rather than a book?

TheLB · 06-05-2013 6:50pm

He certainly visted the German Embassey:

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/Hempel/Image_pages/IrishPress.htm

belcampprisoner · 06-05-2013 6:52pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twYI6NlfrUw

tac foley · 06-05-2013 9:18pm

My dad, who was on the other side during the Civil War, did not go to Mr DeValera's funeral, but he wrote a letter saying that he approved of it.

[With apologies to Mark Twain.]

tac

TheLB · 06-05-2013 10:07pm

I did a bit of digging and I have found out the following:

De Valera visited the residence of the Ambasaador rather then the office embassey
He didn't sign anything
After De Valera visted the Ambassador, the Irish government got into a panic and telegraphed the other neutral countries to find out what they did LOL
The Americans took offence to the preferential treatment Hitler got then from the Irish diplomats what Roosevelt received when he died. http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/Hempel/Images/DFAGrayLetter.jpg

http://doras.dcu.ie/2167/1/isia_19_2008_devine.pdf

gobnaitolunacy · 07-05-2013 8:33am

Douglas Hyde also paid a visit to the embassy, this was only made known in 2005.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/hyde-and-de-valera-offered-condolences-on-hitlers-death-25954338.html

enfant terrible · 07-05-2013 8:43am

Was he ever asked, after the full atrocities of the Nazi regime came to light, how he felt about offering condolences?

robp · 07-05-2013 10:17am

enfant terrible wrote: »

Was he ever asked, after the full atrocities of the Nazi regime came to light, how he felt about offering condolences?

Good question. I can't answer it but I am not sure that politicians in the 1950s and 1950s did many if any interviews but this gives a little information. Google book link

Neutronale · 10-05-2013 7:09pm

TheLB wrote: »

I did a bit of digging and I have found out the following:
De Valera visited the residence of the Ambasaador rather then the office embassey

He didn't sign anything

After De Valera visted the Ambassador, the Irish government got into a panic and telegraphed the other neutral countries to find out what they did LOL

The Americans took offence to the preferential treatment Hitler got then from the Irish diplomats what Roosevelt received when he died. http://www.nationalarchives.ie/topics/AAE/Hempel/Images/DFAGrayLetter.jpg

http://doras.dcu.ie/2167/1/isia_19_2008_devine.pdf

I'd imagine all the neutrals were interested in how the others were treating this situation, that seems to be born out by the national archives. The Swiss seemed to be formulating a form of action which included: a visit to the German embassy, and to personally leave cards.

Interestingly there were "large numbers of sympathisers waiting their turn to sign" (I think this is referring to the Madrid embassy rather than Dublin).

What the above tells us is that we are seeing these events very much through glasses which are heavily reliant on hind-sight and modern notions of real politik rather than diplomatic niceties of 1940s vintage.

Snickers Man · 11-05-2013 8:20pm

Good, if rather short, article by Diarmuid Ferriter in the Irish Times about how our neutrality during the War is becoming "unfashionable."

I think much of the criticism of Ireland's action, or inaction, during the war comes from a bunch of hypocritical, pompous stuffed shirts with their own agendas who are in little position to criticise a small country for behaving in its own interest.

And that includes our esteemed Justice Minister.

pedroeibar1 · 11-05-2013 11:05pm

Jeez. I agree with Snickers Man:eek:

syklops · 11-05-2013 11:08pm

tac foley wrote: »

My dad, who was on the other side during the Civil War, did not go to Mr DeValera's funeral, but he wrote a letter saying that he approved of it.

[With apologies to Mark Twain.]

tac

The other side? The other side of what?

Snickers Man · 12-05-2013 10:54am

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Jeez. I agree with Snickers Man:eek:

Why wouldn't you?

Snickers Man is NEVER wrong.

Snickers Man · 12-05-2013 11:47am

Jeez! Now I'm agreeing with the Sunday Independent :eek:

And they're nearly ALWAYS wrong.

mike65 · 12-05-2013 12:03pm

Neutronale wrote: »

I'd imagine all the neutrals were interested in how the others were treating this situation, that seems to be born out by the national archives. The Swiss seemed to be formulating a form of action which included: a visit to the German embassy, and to personally leave cards.

Interestingly there were "large numbers of sympathisers waiting their turn to sign" (I think this is referring to the Madrid embassy rather than Dublin).

What the above tells us is that we are seeing these events very much through glasses which are heavily reliant on hind-sight and modern notions of real politik rather than diplomatic niceties of 1940s vintage.

At least the Swiss got the "NAZI" gold!

tac foley · 12-05-2013 6:37pm

syklops wrote: »

The other side? The other side of what?

My father was in the Free State Army - how much more of another side can that be, when Mr DeValera and his pals were opposed to the Treaty?

Or have I somehow missed out something somewhere, and there were actually more than two sides in the Irish Civil War?

If this is so, please put me right.

tac

goose2005 · 19-05-2013 6:42pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Good, if rather short, article by Diarmuid Ferriter in the Irish Times about how our neutrality during the War is becoming "unfashionable."

I think much of the criticism of Ireland's action, or inaction, during the war comes from a bunch of hypocritical, pompous stuffed shirts with their own agendas who are in little position to criticise a small country for behaving in its own interest.

And that includes our esteemed Justice Minister.

true, it's easy in hindsight to see the glorious Anglo-American armies taking on the demonic Nazi-Nip forces, but at the time it was the great powers in the world going to war. I mean, if America right now were to fight China for control of Asia, we would surely agree that the U.S. treats its people more humanely than China and would also treat conquered people more humanely, but does that mean we would ally with them? Hardly. No country joined WW2 until it affected their interest, either being invaded, the threat of invasion, or the threat of losing their status.

nuac · 25-05-2013 4:16pm

goose2005 wrote: »

true, it's easy in hindsight to see the glorious Anglo-American armies taking on the demonic Nazi-Nip forces, but at the time it was the great powers in the world going to war. I mean, if America right now were to fight China for control of Asia, we would surely agree that the U.S. treats its people more humanely than China and would also treat conquered people more humanely, but does that mean we would ally with them? Hardly. No country joined WW2 until it affected their interest, either being invaded, the threat of invasion, or the threat of losing their status.

Brazil?

De Valera & Hitler's Book of Condolence

Comments