Would you like to have a basement in your new house?

jester77 · 12-10-2018 8:42pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You are speaking my language. Where are you if you don't mind me asking. No problems if you don't want to say.

I'm in Hamburg. A basement is fairly standard, very few new builds will not have one. Land is scarce, so you don't get massive houses like in Ireland, so you make the most out of the small bit of land you get.

Calhoun · 12-10-2018 8:49pm

jester77 wrote: »

I'm in Hamburg. A basement is fairly standard, very few new builds will not have one. Land is scarce, so you don't get massive houses like in Ireland, so you make the most out of the small bit of land you get.

This is a more practical reason for why you would actually see more basement usage in bigger cities. Something that could also happen here as we cannot keep the urban sprawl forever.

12-10-2018 8:54pm

There was recently a house for sale in Cavan, detached old house, an old rectory/glebe house (priests house, effectively), and it had a basement. But the basement had a miniature 'moat' of sorts around it, so it had windows and such. Was still very damp (2 rooms had become indoor gardens, but the house hadn't been lived in, in years).

Have seen a few houses lately, detached, that have been excavating at the rear of the house, to put in a quasi-basement/garage thing, where you drive around the house to the side or rear, and downhill a storey, and you are generally met with roller doors for cars.

Was also involved in the sale of a house recently that had the same as that, but the 'basement' had a cinema room, home gym, etc. (unsure if it's still referred to as a basement if the rear of the house has been landscaped so you can see it? ie; looks like a 2 storey from the front, and a 3 storey from the rear?)

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Also, American houses are of mind bogglingly flimsy construction.

I love the wording of that sentence. Had me laughing for ages.

Spanish Eyes · 12-10-2018 9:13pm

jester77 wrote: »

I'm in Hamburg. A basement is fairly standard, very few new builds will not have one. Land is scarce, so you don't get massive houses like in Ireland, so you make the most out of the small bit of land you get.

So would Hamburg have damp problems do you know? Seems to me that innovative ideas for Ireland are always knocked on the head because of this or that problem. NO we cannot do that here because of X or Y. You get the drift.

Thanks for that info. Will file it away in my head for the future :cool:

L1011 · 12-10-2018 9:15pm

When planning allows, I can't see any time where putting a third floor on would be dearer than a basement. Having your junk room above you or to the side of you rather than below should be sufficient for most people, really.

Deleted User wrote: »

Was also involved in the sale of a house recently that had the same as that, but the 'basement' had a cinema room, home gym, etc. (unsure if it's still referred to as a basement if the rear of the house has been landscaped so you can see it? ie; looks like a 2 storey from the front, and a 3 storey from the rear?)

That would be a "two and a half storey" house and not considered a basement. Quite common in Dublin, one and a half as well as two and a half.

Spanish Eyes · 12-10-2018 9:17pm

L1011 wrote: »

When planning allows, I can't see any time where putting a third floor on would be dearer than a basement. Having your junk room above you or to the side of you rather than below should be sufficient for most people, really.

Might be a tad easier to go one floor down to the basement, rather than three floors up though!

L1011 · 12-10-2018 9:20pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Might be a tad easier to go one floor down to the basement, rather than three floors up though!

Its still three floors top-to-bottom though. Total staircase climbing is unlikely to be majorly different.

Spanish Eyes · 12-10-2018 9:26pm

L1011 wrote: »

Its still three floors top-to-bottom though. Total staircase climbing is unlikely to be majorly different.

From street level it would be one floor down to the basement.

Rather than three floors up to the attic space. What am am I missing in the logistics here!

L1011 · 12-10-2018 9:34pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

From street level it would be one floor down to the basement.

Rather than three floors up to the attic space. What am am I missing in the logistics here!

Once inside, you have three floors regardless.

If you are continually going up and down between floors in any three floor property, you need to re-arrange where you have things.

0lddog · 12-10-2018 9:42pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Now come on, if someone is prepared to pay for a multimillion cost house, surely they will engage the proper architects/surveyors/engineers etc............

Yup, the full set.

Dont know if its gone legal, for shure the client is less than gruntled.

jester77 · 12-10-2018 9:46pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So would Hamburg have damp problems do you know? Seems to me that innovative ideas for Ireland are always knocked on the head because of this or that problem. NO we cannot do that here because of X or Y. You get the drift.

Thanks for that info. Will file it away in my head for the future :cool:

More flooding than damp, apartments and houses near the rivers tend to flood during storms. Some have storm gates, but not all. The fire service are usually kept busy pumping out basements when that happens.

LirW · 12-10-2018 9:55pm

Building basements is really really expensive and can easily eat up 50-100k depending on the ground of your side.

My aunt built a house in the early 2000s in Austria with a basement and the space is amazing, the basement is a bit too damp though to use it for effective living, which you don't really do anyway. Afaik they had problems with water running underground through the land and it was a pain to get that under control.
As jester said, if you live anywhere near water, prepare for nasty flooding, same story every year in the apartment blocks around the corner.

I was surprised to not see it here but my first thought was the damp might make it difficult. In fairness though, probably for the better because plenty of people aren't capable of keeping their houses properly ventilated.

runawaybishop · 12-10-2018 10:45pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So would Hamburg have damp problems do you know? Seems to me that innovative ideas for Ireland are always knocked on the head because of this or that problem. NO we cannot do that here because of X or Y. You get the drift.

Thanks for that info. Will file it away in my head for the future :cool:

But it's not innovative, it's just expensive. If basements were cheaper than building a bigger house more people would have them. Plenty of basements in Dublin, for example, where land is expensive

riclad · 12-10-2018 10:53pm

large houses have basements in the us , america is a dry country compared with ireland.
Its cheaper to build above ground in ireland.
Say your house is worth 200k, are you going to spend 400k building a basement.
Its cheaper to just buy a larger house or build a standard extension .
Large basements are being built in london for people who are very rich,
where houses cost millions of pounds, central london.
It would be illegal to try and build a basement without hiring an architect
and engineer unless its very small .

LirW · 12-10-2018 10:54pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

But it's not innovative, it's just expensive. If basements were cheaper than building a bigger house more people would have them. Plenty of basements in Dublin, for example, where land is expensive

Don't say that, over there people are obsessed with basements for various reasons. When people build houses they almost always opt for a basement because not having one could lower the value of your property. Not only in cities but also in suburbs and rural areas people would go for a basement because there it's an essential, like people here would want certain things in a house because it's normal to have.

looksee · 12-10-2018 11:21pm

I had this brilliant idea for a basement - more a semibasement - in a house I was planning. Turned out it would cost at least as much as an overground floor and that was provided everything went perfectly and they didn't hit rock or anything difficult.

12-10-2018 11:47pm

L1011 wrote: »

That would be a "two and a half storey" house and not considered a basement. Quite common in Dublin, one and a half as well as two and a half.

Would 'half storeys' not be more along the lines of a dormer house?

I'm talking a house that's a normal everyday 2 storey (+ attic). But if you walk around the back it's actually 3 storeys (+attic).

At least that is if memory serves me correctly..

Gumbo · 12-10-2018 11:51pm

One reason, and one reason only....cost.
The cost to go down is 3 times as expensive than the cost to go up, if not more.

no.8 · 12-10-2018 11:52pm

L1011 wrote:

Its still three floors top-to-bottom though. Total staircase climbing is unlikely to be majorly different.

No it's much easier on avg. Tbh + you are talking limited access for attics. You know yourself, Basements can be partially submerged in that the open dude can be a big door, garage etc.

L1011 · 13-10-2018 7:21am

Deleted User wrote: »

Would 'half storeys' not be more along the lines of a dormer house?

I'm talking a house that's a normal everyday 2 storey (+ attic). But if you walk around the back it's actually 3 storeys (+attic).

At least that is if memory serves me correctly..

The term can be used for either.

uck51js9zml2yt · 13-10-2018 9:36am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Very vague information there. Could you elaborate. i.e what country, near a flood plain, near a hurricane area with sea surges, etc. Thanks.

Odd if it is in ROI and built by Americans. Sorry if I am totally wrong about that!

Built in the south west of Ireland on a hill.
Wooden frame dormer with basement.

Basement has a sump and a pump in case of flooding. The Estate agent told me it's never been flooded but the couple who built it used their experience from the US in building it.

It was built early 90's.

We saw another house on s steep hill with a basement that had been cut out of the hill with an apartment underneath and garage. It was 2 floors above ground level. Built by a couple who moved home from UK. He made his money in building over there.

robp · 13-10-2018 9:47am

In Rathgar a small high-end housing estate of three story terraced houses with basements were built. Lovely houses and very energy efficient.

fash · 13-10-2018 11:13am

They are not used in Ireland because of cost.
Firstly, because they are unusual, the building regulations were not developed with them in mind, it changes the way you have to ventilate and have fire escape compared to a "normal" house. So you have to change your approach to both of these ( e.g. protected fire escape corridor/stairway and HRV)
Secondly, because they are unusual, the construction industry is not set up to fire them out cheaply (compared to other countries (some parts of US/Canada etc) - anything bespoke and unusual costs a lot more. There are better construction technologies than those normally used in Ireland, but because they are not usual here, they end up being comparatively expensive. It is always difficult to go against the grain.
From memory, it costs about 10 times as much per square foot to provide a basement as provide above ground accommodation in Ireland.

Basements are available in parts of the US/Canada because the ground freezes, so you had to build foundations below that point anyway, so why not stick in a room while you were at it - you either dug it out and left it empty, or you filled it back in with earth.

The more people want them however, the cheaper they will become and the more the regulations will consider them. Although if it were up to me personally, I'd prefer others to go ahead and make them common practice, then I could benefit from their actions. (A tragedy of the commons)

ted1 · 13-10-2018 11:16am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I am not talking about excavating after moving in, a la the London brigade.

I am thinking that new builds here could have the option of a basement area. Boiler room, place to dry clothes tick. Utitily room tick, part of it a chill out area or whatever.

Seems it can be done in the US and other places, so why not here?

Anyone know why we don't use the space underground when putting in the foundations?

Oh cost, yes I know that, and maybe flood tables or something, but otherwise why is there no choice?

Much cheaper to do 3 above ground than 1 below and 2 on top.

riclad · 13-10-2018 5:27pm

Construction is cheaper in america, house,s tend to be bigger , building regs are not so strict as here in ireland.
Maybe land and sites are cheaper in america than in ireland .
PC .s and phones get cheaper the more you build,
just finding a site to build house,s on is expensive and complicated ,
theres no sign of building getting cheaper in ireland.
i know an american bought a house in ireland ,knocked down old house,
built a 5 bed house with 4 bathrooms, 2 front rooms,
He never even thought of building a basement .
i Think he spent at least 500k building the new house.
That does not include cost of building old house with 2 acres of land round it.
I think labour is cheaper in the usa than in ireland .

rn · 13-10-2018 7:10pm

I think it's not just cost, it's also our relatively lax planning regulations, our relatively large sites (esp for one off houses) and weather.

On the continent they don't have space for sheds and even if they did it makes sense to protect storage space from extreme heat in summer and snow in winter by going under ground. It's amazingly convenient for them during winter months. That justifies the extra cost in structural work, insulation and damp proofing.

Here you can throw up a shed for a fraction of the cost and for the few hours there's a red weather warning it's not a deal breaker on convenience.

The cost is not to be underestimated. Neighbours to be are putting in a partial basement due to split site and height restrictions. It's costing the 70k extra for the basement structural work. They'll have over 100k spent before they get out of the ground for a 2500 sqft house.

Victor · 13-10-2018 7:40pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Seems that every house in the US has a basement room no matter where they are. Maybe the costs are less there I dunno.

There are a few reasons they often have basements and we generally don't.

1. Frost heave - foundations need to be far enough underground that they are unaffected by winter cold. Seeing as you've dug a hole anyway, you might as well use it.
2. Tornado shelters.
3. Nuclear shelters.

looksee · 13-10-2018 7:46pm

rn wrote: »

I think it's not just cost, it's also our relatively lax planning regulations, our relatively large sites (esp for one off houses) and weather.

On the continent they don't have space for sheds and even if they did it makes sense to protect storage space from extreme heat in summer and snow in winter by going under ground. It's amazingly convenient for them during winter months. That justifies the extra cost in structural work, insulation and damp proofing.

Here you can throw up a shed for a fraction of the cost and for the few hours there's a red weather warning it's not a deal breaker on convenience.

The cost is not to be underestimated. Neighbours to be are putting in a partial basement due to split site and height restrictions. It's costing the 70k extra for the basement structural work. They'll have over 100k spent before they get out of the ground for a 2500 sqft house.

Really! Lax Planning! I gather you have not applied for planning recently then?

rn · 13-10-2018 8:07pm

I have and got it. Had a small bit of hassle but got there in the end. About to commence build. But if I was in Central Europe I wouldn't be getting planning.

Note I said "relatively"

5T3PH3N · 13-10-2018 8:07pm

I used to do basement construction for one of the small dublin based companies.
Basements are expensive. There’s the cost to dig and remove soil from site, it’s over €8k for the grab lorries alone. Hit any rock and it gets expensive, fast.
The rebar that goes into a basement is just insane, 40ft lorry load of rebar.
Tanking membranes are seriously expensive and you need to have completed a course to fit both membranes.
Shuttering and concrete costs are super expensive, high strength pump mix concrete and the pump. 440mm thick exterior walls takes a lot of concrete.

The only basements I did were in the most affluent areas really, 3 of the basements I did were for new build houses.

I don’t do basements anymore but when I build my own house I hope to do one.

Would you like to have a basement in your new house?

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