FTTH & FTTC Bandwidth?

dreamboxer · 12-11-2018 7:45pm #1

Hi All

Just out of curiosity How much bandwidth do the FTTC Nodes have?

How many connections in the FTTC node ?

How many fibers are in the cable running in these road poles ?

How many connections available in each Distribution pole ?

Also in theory what bandwidth could the single fiber to the home handle i know their set at 1Gbps but whats their Max ?

Before anyone asks i just like knowing stuff like this

ED E · 12-11-2018 7:57pm

FTTC, each service unit has 4 fibres to feed it. That can be 4Gb or 40Gb depending on the use but really 2Gb would be plenty for each.

Each run of 31 FTTH premises has 2.5Gb. Any one end device can use 1Gb. The DPs are passive so they dont have/not have any bandwidth.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 12-11-2018 7:59pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

Hi All

Just out of curiosity How much bandwidth do the FTTC Nodes have?

How many connections in the FTTC node ?

How many fibers are in the cable running in these road poles ?

How many connections available in each Distribution pole ?

Also in theory what bandwidth could the single fiber to the home handle i know their set at 1Gbps but whats their Max ?

Before anyone asks i just like knowing stuff like this

I'm not sure about the FTTC answers but for FTTH it's

36 fibres in the cable, 4 sometimes 8 connections from each distribution point box.

The network is a PON (passive optical network) so 2.48Gb down and 1.24Gb is shared among up to 32 connections.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_optical_network

They could upgrade the optics on both ends to something like XGS-PON to enable 10Gb connections.

https://siro.ie/huawei-trial/

tuxy · 12-11-2018 8:16pm

2.48Gb for 31 connections doesn't seem like much but in practice it seems to work out just fine. Although how many of the lines would have 31 active users yet?
I assume how much capacity each ISP has at the exchange also comes into it?

Marlow · 12-11-2018 9:08pm

tuxy wrote: »

2.48Gb for 31 connections doesn't seem like much but in practice it seems to work out just fine. Although how many of the lines would have 31 active users yet?
I assume how much capacity each ISP has at the exchange also comes into it?

Not a lot and most consumers just buy 150 Mbit/s. And it's extremely rare, that people max their 150 Mbit/s out. There's essentially over 80 Mbit/s guaranteed per customer .. if everyone went and maxed their connection at the same time.

/M

tuxy · 12-11-2018 9:19pm

That's not bad at all as worse case scenario of 80 Mbit/s is still a very usable internet connection.
I'd love to know how many people have ordered the 1Gbit packages to be used with wifi only.
I guess those people may help subsidise the cost for everyone else.

Marlow · 12-11-2018 9:32pm

On SIRO 80%+ are GigE due to the promo. On OpenEIR only very few power-users. Or businesses, but their usage pattern is the complete opposite of residential users, so that works the finest.

/M

dreamboxer · 13-11-2018 12:16am

Thanks for the replies

I knew there would be some contention but not as low as 80Mbps.

Wyatt Bald Ink wrote: »

They could upgrade the optics on both ends to something like XGS-PON to enable 10Gb connections.

When you say both ends is that cabinet to customer ?

If a business was on the FTTH could they in the future go to 10Gbps ?

If so i presume there would be some QOS at the cabinet node ?

Marlow · 13-11-2018 12:20am

dreamboxer wrote: »

Thanks for the replies

I knew there would be some contention but not as low as 80Mbps.

When you say both ends is that cabinet to customer ?

If a business was on the FTTH could they in the future go to 10Gbps ?

If so i presume there would be some QOS at the cabinet node ?

These are FTTH figures. And they are extremes. You'll probably never see it that low. You have to be realistic, too. If you buy 150 Mbit/s at 50 or 55 EUR/month. That's cheap. Buying a 1gig uncontended circuit to the internet in Dublin is like 700-1500 EUR/month+VAT. So 105EUR+vat for 150 Mbit/s and upwards. And you have to at least double that figure, because no internet provider wants to rely on just one upstream network. And then it has to be brought to you from there. That's not free either.

The beauty about FTTH is also, that it can be upgraded, still. So yes, in the future we can go 10gig, 100gig or more.

While with FTTC (better descibed as VDSL) we're at the end of the line. There's one more step to 300 Mbit/s, but that's pretty much it.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-11-2018 12:25am

dreamboxer wrote: »

Thanks for the replies

I knew there would be some contention but not as low as 80Mbps.

When you say both ends is that cabinet to customer ?

If a business was on the FTTH could they in the future go to 10Gbps ?

If so i presume there would be some QOS at the cabinet node ?

Cabinets have no part in FTTH. The OLT is in the exchange. To upgrade to XGS-PON a card on the OLT would have to be upgraded and the ONT in a customers premises also needs upgrading. The benefit is that it can coexist with GPON. It is hard to know if there is a business case for such speeds at the moment though.

tuxy · 13-11-2018 12:27am

Yeah the 80Mbit minimum is if every single person(31 of them) on the same line as you try's to do something very bandwidth intensive at the same time. Your line probably won't have the 31 max and if it did and you contacted everyone to try to download at the same time I think you would still struggle to replicate the worse case scenario.

dreamboxer · 13-11-2018 12:46am

Thank again.

I know even as low as 80Mbps you'll have a decent service.

Sorry should have said exchange,
If they wanted to upgrade to XGS-PON is it just installing a card in a rack at the exchange & ONT for the customer or is there a lot more to it?

ED E · 13-11-2018 12:48am

dreamboxer wrote: »

Thank again.

I know even as low as 80Mbps you'll have a decent service.

Sorry should have said exchange,
If they wanted to upgrade to XGS-PON is it just installing a card in a rack at the exchange & ONT for the customer or is there a lot more to it?

Nope, that'd be it. XGS PON OLT, ONT.

On the retail side the ISP would need to provide a much faster router as the currently fleet could not handle 2Gb say.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-11-2018 12:55am

dreamboxer wrote: »

Thank again.

I know even as low as 80Mbps you'll have a decent service.

Sorry should have said exchange,
If they wanted to upgrade to XGS-PON is it just installing a card in a rack at the exchange & ONT for the customer or is there a lot more to it?

As far as I know it is an upgrading of an interface card on an OLT and the ONT in the premises. The existing cabling remains untouched. That is one of the benefits of building a FTTH network in the first place.

Interesting article here about Xavier Niel's (eir owner) Salt ISP in Switzerland who have deployed XGS-PON.

eir, which Niel has just acquired, is an incumbent operator and is therefore in a different position. Under new ownership it has said that it will refocus FTTH operations towards urban areas; if a Virgin Media upgrade to DOCSIS3.1 can offer a 1Gbps downlink, then going straight to XGS-PON could be a differentiator. SIRO, the Vodafone ESB joint venture that competes against eir in small-town locations, has recently trialled XGS-PON.

http://www.analysysmason.com/Research/Content/Comments/Salt-XGSPON-offering-RDNS0-RDMB0/

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-11-2018 12:57am

ED E wrote: »

Nope, that'd be it. XGS PON OLT, ONT.

On the retail side the ISP would need to provide a much faster router as the currently fleet could not handle 2Gb say.

Don't tell Andy but Huawei have existing XGS-PON combined router and ONT devices.

ED E · 13-11-2018 1:02am

Johnboy1951 · 13-11-2018 11:44am

Wyatt Bald Ink wrote: »

As far as I know it is an upgrading of an interface card on an OLT and the ONT in the premises. The existing cabling remains untouched. That is one of the benefits of building a FTTH network in the first place.

Interesting article here about Xavier Niel's (eir owner) Salt ISP in Switzerland who have deployed XGS-PON.

http://www.analysysmason.com/Research/Content/Comments/Salt-XGSPON-offering-RDNS0-RDMB0/

It seems Mr. Niel is not applying the same, or similar, pricing structure in Ireland ..... lower price for existing customers.

At a retail level, the offer is simple. For CHF49.95 per month (a Swiss franc having, at the time of writing, the same value as a US dollar), end users get a symmetrical 10Gbps connection, a home gateway, an Apple 4K TV box and an HD voice service. If they are already a Salt mobile subscriber, they get it for CHF39.95 per month. Activation costs CHF99.95 and (optional) installation costs CHF199.95. That is all that is available; there are no other variants on offer. This characterises Niel’s approach to product portfolios.

dreamboxer · 13-11-2018 11:17pm

Wyatt Bald Ink wrote: »

36 fibres in the cable, 4 sometimes 8 connections from each distribution point box.

The network is a PON (passive optical network) so 2.48Gb down and 1.24Gb is shared among up to 32 connections.

So the customers fiber goes to the pole & spliced into 1 of the 36 fibers?
Then onto the exchange OLT ?

Or does it share 1 fiber with 31 other customers back to the exchange?
Or both of the above possible ?

ED E · 13-11-2018 11:28pm

Each fibre is shared and there are 36 of them, so both.

So one bundle is 1152 installations, or 1116 in practice (1 spare per fibre). In reality its unlikely every fibre in a single bundle would be full, some might only ever get 10 subs.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-11-2018 11:46pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

So the customers fiber goes to the pole & spliced into 1 of the 36 fibers?
Then onto the exchange OLT ?

Or does it share 1 fiber with 31 other customers back to the exchange?
Or both of the above possible ?

Imagine one fibre strand leaving the OLT in the exchange. It travels a certain distance and goes into a 1:8 splitter so your one strand is now eight strands. They travel another distance to 1:4 splitters so your eight fibre strands are now 32. Each output from 1:4 splitter can be connected to a premises. Your original one fibre strand is now serving 32 premises.

In practice the 36 strands are not all being used at this time. They have built it so that the network can be expanded to cover each exchange area fully if they wish to in the future.

The Cush · 14-11-2018 12:18am

Wyatt Bald Ink wrote: »

In practice the 36 strands are not all being used at this time. They have built it so that the network can be expanded to cover each exchange area fully if they wish to in the future.

Did I read here or elsewhere that 1 tube of 12 fibres was built in redundancy for the other 24 fibres?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 14-11-2018 12:24am

The Cush wrote: »

Did I read here or elsewhere that 1 tube of 12 fibres was built in redundancy for the other 24 fibres?

I think a cabling guy told Johnboy1951 that only 24 fibres were currently being used.

Johnboy1951 · 14-11-2018 12:53am

Wyatt Bald Ink wrote: »

I think a cabling guy told Johnboy1951 that only 24 fibres were currently being used.

Good memory.
I hope mine is as good

3 sets of 12 fibres, with one set left for future use ........ IF I recall correctly.

dreamboxer · 14-11-2018 5:38pm

Ok now onto OLT in the exchange &#55357;&#56860;

From the exchange i'm guessing it meets up somewhere with the main line/trunk that goes to Inex ?

What fiber system is used here?

Marlow · 14-11-2018 5:41pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

Ok now onto OLT in the exchange ��

From the exchange i'm guessing it meets up somewhere with the main line/trunk that goes to Inex ?

What fiber system is used here?

Not quite. From the OLT (hence the exchange) it enters OpenEIRs NGN network. The OLT typically has 1 or 2 10gig uplinks. It then gets handed off to whatever provider, wherever they have their interconnects with OpenEIR. That could be anywhere in the country.

These can be 1gig, 10gig, 100gig links or multiple thereof.

The provider then brings the traffic through their own network to their "Edge", where it then goes into their upstream carriers or to INEX, if they're connected to that.

/M

dreamboxer · 14-11-2018 6:02pm

Ok let me see if i get the gist of it

If i ordered a 1gbps uncontended line from Openeir they would just use what ever they liked n charged for the whole service.

Or i order off openeir a1gbps uncontended line & pay inex for rack space & openeir deliver it to them n i pay openeir for my connection & the hand off to inex ?
Can openeir sell commercial service on the ftth network?
Also is there an truly unmetered service?

Again many thanks to all who have answered my questions😘

Marlow · 14-11-2018 6:09pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

If i ordered a 1gbps uncontended line from Openeir they would just use what ever they liked n charged for the whole service.

If you ordered a 1 GBit/s uncontended line from OpenEIR, which is point-to-point from one place in the country to another, then they would deliver that and take care of everything in between. At a premium that is. And it doesn't come cheap. To order from OpenEIR you have to be a wholesale partner with them. As a business or consumer, you interact with a provider, that may or may not use OpenEIR. There are a few fibre operators in the country, that can do that and have their own fibre network. Doesn't have to be OpenEIR.

dreamboxer wrote: »

Or i order off openeir a1gbps uncontended line & pay inex for rack space & openeir deliver it to them n i pay openeir for my connection & the hand off to inex ?

INEX is a membership organisation. So, once you become a member, you can either "long-line" a connection to them (which the above would be) or you can rent rack-space in one of the data-centers in Dublin or CIX in Cork and then connect to INEX from your rack.

Also, don't forget: INEX only gives you connectivity to the other members on INEX. Not to the whole internet. For that you need a connection to another carrier, like: Cogent, Level3, GTT, NTT, Telia, Viatel, etc. etc. etc.

dreamboxer wrote: »

Can openeir sell commercial service on the ftth network?

Sure they can. But it's still contended. If you want uncontended, then you need to order a NGN circuit.

dreamboxer wrote: »

Also is there an truly unmetered service?

Sure there is, but you pay for it.

/M

dreamboxer · 14-11-2018 6:34pm

Marlow wrote: »

As a business or consumer, you interact with a provider, that may or may not use OpenEIR. There are a few fibre operators in the country, that can do that and have their own fibre network. Doesn't have to be OpenEIR.

/M

I understand that it wont be €39.99😁

Full disclosure :eek:i'm waiting to see if ftth comes past our home, on the maps it will by-pass our lane but the lads installing new poles on our lane said it was for ftth. Also the map shows it going down a road beside us that has no poles! & it defo aint ducts. So here's hopping :rolleyes:

So am i stuck with openeir or can any provider use their fiber?
If it doesnt come down the lane will they still connect me as a commercial customer & charge for the extra fiber from the last DP? appox 500mtr

babi-hrse · 14-11-2018 6:38pm

Cab fttc is a card which consist of 48 ports per LT strip one port for testing so 47 usable ports with 100mbps there are 4 banks of of 48 so 4*48 -1 for test port 191 usable ports if DSLAM is upgraded it can take another 192 connections.
I don't know if that's supposed to mean the cab can carry 18.75gbps on a single card.
At a guess I'd say it's one fibre per 48 and 4 fibres per card. Judging from what I've seen on racks.
Fibre DPS either 4 or 8 in some cases 12ports but assume there's no 12ports unless told

Marlow · 14-11-2018 8:47pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

So am i stuck with openeir or can any provider use their fiber?
If it doesnt come down the lane will they still connect me as a commercial customer & charge for the extra fiber from the last DP? appox 500mtr

The fibre that openeir roles out belongs to OpenEIR. But other providers can rent space in their duct and on their poles to bring fibre to you. It will be a fairly small amount of specialised providers, that would do this.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3 · 14-11-2018 9:33pm

dreamboxer wrote: »

I understand that it wont be €39.99ðŸ˜

Full disclosure :eek:i'm waiting to see if ftth comes past our home, on the maps it will by-pass our lane but the lads installing new poles on our lane said it was for ftth. Also the map shows it going down a road beside us that has no poles! & it defo aint ducts. So here's hopping :rolleyes:

So am i stuck with openeir or can any provider use their fiber?
If it doesnt come down the lane will they still connect me as a commercial customer & charge for the extra fiber from the last DP? appox 500mtr

If they've installed new poles on your lane it's highly likely that fibre will be put on the poles. The maps can not be relied upon. What stage is the build at in your area? Are there any distribution points (boxes on the poles) installed yet?