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Non-clinical jobs with a medicine degree in Ireland?

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  • 15-03-2013 7:32pm
    #1
    PutureFrospect
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭


    I'm only in third year of medicine, but lately I've just been wondering what other paths are there down the road if I don't want to work in the 'battlefield' as it were? With all the commotion stirring up over junior doctors being treated unfairly etc. is really making me question whether I want to go down that path.

    If I were to deviate from the norm and go down a different route, would I be viewed highly upon seeing as I'd have what is seen as a somewhat "prestigious" degree?

    This is only food for thought ATM so if you intend on losing the rag, then just don't bother. :pac:

    Cheers


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    #2
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    From my class some ended up as pilots, property developers, software writers, research and one went into a religious vocation.

    Others I've seen went into banking, finance, sport, and retail.

    As with any degree the world is your oyster.


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    #3
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    There are varying degrees of "the battlefield" that you can get involved with. Med students get work experience of general practise, OB/GYN, surgery, etc, etc. but unless you seek it out you won't get experience of the likes of Public Health, Microbiology, Biochemistry, Immunology, Haematology or pathology. The pathologists I know are very open to showing med students what their job is like though. There's much more to it than what you get from the textbooks. They rarely deal directly with (living) patients but their job contributes enormously to their care and health.

    In terms of jobs outside clinical practise that use a medical doctorate you'd be looking at stuff like pharmaceutical regulation, scientific research and/or teaching.

    EDIT: in terms of having a "prestigious degree" pharmaceutical companies will look for your medical license to sign off on their clinical trials etc. research groups will be interested in your broad base in biochem, micro, pathology, physiology, etc. But in the end whether you stick with medicine or follow a different path how well your qualifications are received depends on how well you sell yourself!


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    #4
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    You would find it very hard to become a Microbiologist, Biochemist, Immunologist, Haematologst or pathologist with out doing at least a masters. I know someone who did a masters in microbiology after medicine and he loves it.


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    #5
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    To become a pathologisticrobiologist/etc you do the intern year after graduate and then apply for the relevant NCHD programme. Pathology, for example, is about two years as an SHO, if you pass exams, then 4/5 years as an SpReg. People do research in with all this but passing the exams is the main aim


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    #6
    drzhivago
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    PutureFrospect wrote: »
    I'm only in third year of medicine, but lately I've just been wondering what other paths are there down the road if I don't want to work in the 'battlefield' as it were? With all the commotion stirring up over junior doctors being treated unfairly etc. is really making me question whether I want to go down that path.

    If I were to deviate from the norm and go down a different route, would I be viewed highly upon seeing as I'd have what is seen as a somewhat "prestigious" degree?

    This is only food for thought ATM so if you intend on losing the rag, then just don't bother. :pac:

    Cheers

    There are two or more aspects to this
    Using your degree
    • Public health (do internship then apply for public health training)
    • Radiology (see above)
    • Microbiology
    • Pathology
    • Forensic medicine
    • Lecturer in Medical Sciences (anatomy phys etc)
    • Sports medicine
    • Occupational medicine
    • Pharmaceutical Medicine (though they like people to have more clinical experience than internship)
    • Ships Doctor on Cruise (again like to have more experience than internship and Life support training
    • Military Medicine (become an Army Medical Officer)
    • Medical researcher - not easy in ireland but is a career abroad
    • Medical Management - not as much available in Ireland but is a career path in Australia with an Spr program in Hospital Management for Medics
    • Medical Advisor to Insurance Company (usually people who have specialised in some aspect of medicine)
    • Medico Legal expert in Court (again usually specialised in some aspect of medicine)
    • Medical Advisor to Clinical Information system Software Developers
    • Develop Medical Apps
    • Write Textbooks
    Not using your degree
    Some mentioned above which value critical thinking
    • Pilot
    • Business consulting
    • Set up own Medical Business
    • Medical Advisor to sports body
    • Medical advisor to ministers
    • Find a very rich person and be their personal doctor to refer them to the most qualified person in that country while they are travelling


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    #7
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    drzhivago wrote: »
    There are two or more aspects to this
    Using your degree
    • Public health (do internship then apply for public health training)
    • Radiology (see above)
    • Microbiology
    • Pathology
    • Forensic medicine
    • Lecturer in Medical Sciences (anatomy phys etc)
    • Sports medicine
    • Occupational medicine
    • Pharmaceutical Medicine (though they like people to have more clinical experience than internship)
    • Ships Doctor on Cruise (again like to have more experience than internship and Life support training
    • Military Medicine (become an Army Medical Officer)
    • Medical researcher - not easy in ireland but is a career abroad
    • Medical Management - not as much available in Ireland but is a career path in Australia with an Spr program in Hospital Management for Medics
    • Medical Advisor to Insurance Company (usually people who have specialised in some aspect of medicine)
    • Medico Legal expert in Court (again usually specialised in some aspect of medicine)
    • Medical Advisor to Clinical Information system Software Developers
    • Develop Medical Apps
    • Write Textbooks
    Not using your degree
    Some mentioned above which value critical thinking
    • Pilot
    • Business consulting
    • Set up own Medical Business
    • Medical Advisor to sports body
    • Medical advisor to ministers
    • Find a very rich person and be their personal doctor to refer them to the most qualified person in that country while they are travelling

    Woah I know you mean well but mictobiology would be hard to get with just a doctorate in medicine. Micro involves a lot more bio chemically than medicine provides.


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    #8
    Dingle_berry
    Registered Users Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Dingle_berry


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Woah I know you mean well but mictobiology would be hard to get with just a doctorate in medicine. Micro involves a lot more bio chemically than medicine provides.

    AFAIK it's a training programme like any other consultants position.


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    #9
    dissed doc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭dissed doc


    The realistic options more limited than that list, I think. The basic medical degree is effectively a Leaving Certificate equivalent qualification that simply is a door you can open, but useless in itself.

    1. Going into research very early (as in, after graduation from university) and moving towards working in the pharmaceutical world; there are a lot of opportunities (not in Ireland obviously), usually it means finishing medicine and doing then a full-time PHD and not doing any clinical training.

    2. Apply for one of the programs for professional graduates at McKinsey & Co., or Boston Consulting and going to business/finance world.

    You will not really be taking seriously as a legal, insurance, medical advisor, etc., if you are not a qualified specialist. You could make money but you will have no qualification to back you up. To work as a ship's doctor you would typically be expected to be the level of a qualified GP or general physician or emergency medicine specialist. Teaching? The closest will be a post-membership surgical trainee either doing anatomy demonstrating, or else someone at SpR level+ as a lecturer.

    You should make a choice and a pretty clear one at that: become a specialist in a branch of clinical medicine, or else move into other things. All IMO of course. Career options in Ireland are very limited for doctors - both a specialist consultant level and in related fields like pharma or consulting.

    http://www.theadventuremedic.com/??


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    #10
    drzhivago
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Woah I know you mean well but mictobiology would be hard to get with just a doctorate in medicine. Micro involves a lot more bio chemically than medicine provides.

    Hi if you read my list again is broken down to using degree and not using degree

    The OP wanted to avoid typical hospital jobs because of hours etc

    You can be a consultant microbiologist which means doing Internship, 2 year SHO training program in microbiology (no in hospital on call) followed by 4 years SPR program and 1-2 year fellowship in microbiology


    At end you get a consultant job like cardiologist etc, as far as I know you cannot get these jobs with a science microbiology degree as there is a clinical element


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    #11
    drzhivago
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    dissed doc wrote: »
    The realistic options more limited than that list, I think. The basic medical degree is effectively a Leaving Certificate equivalent qualification that simply is a door you can open, but useless in itself.

    1. Going into research very early (as in, after graduation from university) and moving towards working in the pharmaceutical world; there are a lot of opportunities (not in Ireland obviously), usually it means finishing medicine and doing then a full-time PHD and not doing any clinical training.

    2. Apply for one of the programs for professional graduates at McKinsey & Co., or Boston Consulting and going to business/finance world.

    You will not really be taking seriously as a legal, insurance, medical advisor, etc., if you are not a qualified specialist. You could make money but you will have no qualification to back you up. To work as a ship's doctor you would typically be expected to be the level of a qualified GP or general physician or emergency medicine specialist. Teaching? The closest will be a post-membership surgical trainee either doing anatomy demonstrating, or else someone at SpR level+ as a lecturer.

    You should make a choice and a pretty clear one at that: become a specialist in a branch of clinical medicine, or else move into other things. All IMO of course. Career options in Ireland are very limited for doctors - both a specialist consultant level and in related fields like pharma or consulting.

    http://www.theadventuremedic.com/??

    In Fairness OP didnt say they wanted to stay in ireland just they wanted to avoid typical hospital career path

    I was giving options using degree and not using medical degree

    Granted medico legal requires more experience usually but in some countries there is a training program in this

    TEACHING -- Anatomy demonstrators/Physiology/Biochem etc etc are post intern and offer career in education without having to go back for further medical training in hospital but does obviously involve other training in respective field

    Depending on the cruise line some will "train you" experientially on board when I was an SHO one of my colleagues had just finished doing 4 years of it

    Regarding medical advisor you may be incorrect there they are not necessarily always looking for fully trained specialist who may be immersed in a field, some of the web 2.0 and app developers are looking to take people on who are critical thinkers to help their companies develop


    I agree that without a specialist qualification you have nothing to back yourself up but hey What about Michael Crichton, and the asian dude from The hangover


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    #12
    mystery1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭mystery1


    Pharmaceuticals for sure, in Ireland generally there is always a need for Medical Directors & Medical Advisors ... abroad there are many more positions in pharmaceuticals in clinical trials, pharmacovigilance, medical writers (clinical trial reports, publications) and medical-marketing type roles.

    There are also many physicians working in the Irish Medicines Board as Medical Assessors, Pharmacovigilance etc.

    All pay pretty well, Pharma you could possibly start on circa >€55K plus perks (car/pension/VHI/bonus) , in a regulatory role (like IMB) you could get >€90k but with less perks. Mostly 9-5 and weekends off for both, not a bad plan B!


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    #13
    vermilions
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭vermilions


    Sorry to dig up a 4 year old thread, but I was wondering if there are any jobs that hires medical graduates (from an Irish medical school) who has not completed their internship (therefore not registered with the medical council)? Thanks a lot in advance.


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    #14
    Arbie
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Arbie


    vermilions wrote: »
    Sorry to dig up a 4 year old thread, but I was wondering if there are any jobs that hires medical graduates (from an Irish medical school) who has not completed their internship (therefore not registered with the medical council)? Thanks a lot in advance.

    I have classmates who went into management consulting, IT, research, and medical education, but all except 1 of them had done intern year. The 1 who didn't do intern year did a postgrad business degree.

    What are you thinking of? Is it not possible for you to do intern year or are you not interested in it?


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    #15
    vermilions
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭vermilions


    Arbie wrote: »
    I have classmates who went into management consulting, IT, research, and medical education, but all except 1 of them had done intern year. The 1 who didn't do intern year did a postgrad business degree.

    What are you thinking of? Is it not possible for you to do intern year or are you not interested in it?

    I'm very interested in practicing, but as a non-EEA/non-CAO entry student, I have almost nil chance in working in the HSE as an intern.... Thanks for answering btw. :)


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    #16
    Arbie
    Registered Users Posts: 878 ✭✭✭Arbie


    vermilions wrote: »
    I'm very interested in practicing, but as a non-EEA/non-CAO entry student, I have almost nil chance in working in the HSE as an intern.... Thanks for answering btw. :)

    I had heard it was getting tighter for non-EEA grads but I didn't realise it was so bad. It's a shame.

    Have you considered the UK? Also a few grads from the year behind me went to Malta and enjoyed it.


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    #17
    dr.jhasan
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭dr.jhasan


    what is the procedure to get into medical teaching career (physiology, anatomy etc) for doctor who is not registered with medical council and holds a medical degree from non EEA country.


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    #18
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    any career suggestions for an exhausted almost 40 doctor? Have not burnt out yet


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    #19
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    It largely depends on your location, specialty and circumstances, but I know doctors who've set up locum agencies, set up nursing homes, become psychotherapists. You could just look at the job ads (or whatever the online equivalent is these days) with an open mind to see whose looking for people with medical/scientific backgrounds and lots of experience - maybe something like Pharmaceutical research?

    Or maybe you just need a change of system and looking abroad for medical jobs is the thing to do. Its a long time since I looked but New Zealand were always keen for doctors and I know a few who've gone to Canada in recent years.


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    #20
    Giveaway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭Giveaway


    Thank you alchemist.
    have deep roots locally. was just thinking out loud. will persevere a few years longer


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