Hydrogen powered trains

loyatemu · 18-09-2018 11:35pm #1

Germany launches world's first hydrogen-powered train

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/17/germany-launches-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-train

Worth considering as an alternative to the bi-mode trains Irish Rail currently seem keen on?

Del.Monte · 19-09-2018 10:26am

loyatemu wrote: »

Germany launches world's first hydrogen-powered train

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/17/germany-launches-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-train

Worth considering as an alternative to the bi-mode trains Irish Rail currently seem keen on?

Not worth even discussing as CIE haven't done innovation since Bulleid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Bulleid left Inchicore - just order more smelly, noisy, polluting DMUs instead.

Markcheese · 19-09-2018 4:07pm

Would that not be just replacing the diesel part of a diesel electric with hydrogen?
What's the big advantage if your not going operatting a metro.

loyatemu · 19-09-2018 4:13pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Would that not be just replacing the diesel part of a diesel electric with hydrogen?
What's the big advantage if your not going operatting a metro.

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

On a related note - Irish Rail are going to have to do something eventually about the diesel fumes being emitted into their station sheds by idling trains.

Del.Monte · 19-09-2018 6:52pm

loyatemu wrote: »

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

On a related note - Irish Rail are going to have to do something eventually about the diesel fumes being emitted into their station sheds by idling trains.

This has been going on since the first diesels arrived in the 1950s - why do you think that CIE is going to do something now?

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2018 11:18pm

loyatemu wrote: »

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

On a related note - Irish Rail are going to have to do something eventually about the diesel fumes being emitted into their station sheds by idling trains.

They've been shutting down DMU's at stations this long time now.

loyatemu · 19-09-2018 11:31pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

They've been shutting down DMU's at stations this long time now.

not in Connolly, there are idling DMUs there every time I go through

This has been going on since the first diesels arrived in the 1950s - why do you think that CIE is going to do something now?

there's more awareness of the dangers of diesel emissions now than there was in the 1950s. I'd expect they'll eventually be forced into action by environmental or workplace safety legislation.

https://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurethe-big-stink-how-much-do-trains-really-emit-4807131/

Markcheese · 20-09-2018 1:18pm

loyatemu wrote: »

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

On a related note - Irish Rail are going to have to do something eventually about the diesel fumes being emitted into their station sheds by idling trains.

A good diesel electric should be able to be optimised to produce as little nox as possible, (not sure about particulate), admittedly in covered stations like Connolly ect they'd have to do an equivalent of Stárt stop to cut fumes...

loyatemu · 20-09-2018 1:28pm

more info here: https://www.alstom.com/coradia-ilint-worlds-1st-hydrogen-powered-train

should be quieter than diesel units too.

munchkin_utd · 25-09-2018 3:29pm

loyatemu wrote: »

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

On a related note - Irish Rail are going to have to do something eventually about the diesel fumes being emitted into their station sheds by idling trains.

you can make it using excess wind or hydro energy which is part of the hype around the fuel, not to mention that the only by product of it is water so it doesn't cause pollution in cities.

metrovick001 · 25-09-2018 11:01pm

loyatemu wrote: »

less pollution? However I'm not sure how polluting the production of Hydrogen gas is.

When ya burn Hydrogen [H + O2] ya get H2O...very wet but clean.
Problem is it has to be "made" and is very very flammable.

Hilly Bill · 26-09-2018 10:31am

Irish rail are doing something with a couple of their 22 sets which will reduce fuel cost by around 30% and make them quieter. with if after a successful trial they will order 2 more.. I'm not sure of the specifics but they will be like hybrid trains with some box attached for the conversion.
Made in Germany i think.

GM228 · 26-09-2018 7:43pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Irish rail are doing something with a couple of their 22 sets which will reduce fuel cost by around 30% and make them quieter. with if after a successful trial they will order 2 more.. I'm not sure of the specifics but they will be like hybrid trains with some box attached for the conversion.
Made in Germany i think.

New transmissions and conversion to diesel/battery hybrids. Three sets will become hybrids, if successful the entire fleet will be converted.

Hilly Bill · 26-09-2018 10:20pm

GM228 wrote: »

New transmissions and conversion to diesel/battery hybrids. Three sets will become hybrids, if successful the entire fleet will be converted.

Rolls Royce

Jamie2k9 · 26-09-2018 10:34pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Irish rail are doing something with a couple of their 22 sets which will reduce fuel cost by around 30% and make them quieter. with if after a successful trial they will order 2 more.. I'm not sure of the specifics but they will be like hybrid trains with some box attached for the conversion.
Made in Germany i think.

We all these savings they might tender for a new TMS system and ensure there is a capable reservation system included and clear instructions for drivers to operate instead of wiping the system when they arrive at the train pre departure and stick there key in. I didn't think staff causing the issue was a big thing but 7 of 8 journeys recently have been down to this and not the system.

Hilly Bill · 27-09-2018 1:36pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

We all these savings they might tender for a new TMS system and ensure there is a capable reservation system included and clear instructions for drivers to operate instead of wiping the system when they arrive at the train pre departure and stick there key in. I didn't think staff causing the issue was a big thing but 7 of 8 journeys recently have been down to this and not the system.

It's either a WiFi issue or a problem with the set. The staff don't cause the issue.

fxotoole · 27-09-2018 1:37pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Germany launches world's first hydrogen-powered train

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/17/germany-launches-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-train

Worth considering as an alternative to the bi-mode trains Irish Rail currently seem keen on?

I seriously doubt it will result in Irish Rail reducing fares, however

end of the road · 27-09-2018 3:04pm

fxotoole wrote: »

I seriously doubt it will result in Irish Rail reducing fares, however

why would it.

Jamie2k9 · 27-09-2018 10:18pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's either a WiFi issue or a problem with the set. The staff don't cause the issue.

Yes they do and they have confined it to me. All you need to do is take a train to Killarney or Kilkenny and in some cases as soon as the driver switches ends the reservations disappear and have to re-load from the start which takes typically up to 1 hour. Driver arrives 15-20 minutes before departure and they regularly disappear in fact its happened for the last 3 weeks on the 5 car sets. I was one of the first few to board the 18.35 over the last two Fridays and by the time I put my bag up the reservations just disappeared before returning 45 minutes later. The Friday before that just 3 reservations on the whole train and the wrong ones at that.

XPS_Zero · 27-09-2018 11:57pm

:D:D CIE doing something innovative!!!!!!!!!! ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahah (deep breath....) ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

This is the company that refused, originally, to introduce wifi using the excuse that they'd have to update it every few years, the company whos staff went on strike over the burden of a new train that's more pleasant to drive...

This is a company running to standards of the early 1990s compared to the rest of western europe, on a good day.

If they did decide to go for something like this, in true Irish fashon, this is how it would play out:

1. Minister announces it with much fanfare, lots of glossy media backgrounds and graphics that they paid some firm the ministers cousin owns 100k to develop

2. Minister does not (like the recent education plan, the education plan from 2012, and the SlainteCare plan) actually bother to ask Finance for any actual funding to be set aside to make it happen

3. Local residents are OUTRAGED over the prospect of these noisy new Hydrogen trains. Yeh I know, but some councilor will tell them they will be.
TDx says we should be spending this money on de peeple de ardinry deecent peeple not fancy new trains, meanwhile the two Greens are very excited about the exact type of project they never bothered pushing during their one and only time in government where they worried about fur farms and light bulbs rather than useful stuff like this

4. The plan is forgotten about until after the next election

5. The plan is re-announced (Irish govts do love to re announce transport projects, it's practically a national tradition) only now instead of the Hydrogen Train it's the TOTALLY DIFFERENT "hydro-link", all previous plans are ripped up and started from scratch. New glossy backgrounds and graphics and videos on the TII and TFI and IE websites, another cousin makes 100k. No funding announced.

6. The plan is forgotten about until after the next election...lather...rinse...repeat....

Hilly Bill · 28-09-2018 3:44am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes they do and they have confined it to me. All you need to do is take a train to Killarney or Kilkenny and in some cases as soon as the driver switches ends the reservations disappear and have to re-load from the start which takes typically up to 1 hour. Driver arrives 15-20 minutes before departure and they regularly disappear in fact its happened for the last 3 weeks on the 5 car sets. I was one of the first few to board the 18.35 over the last two Fridays and by the time I put my bag up the reservations just disappeared before returning 45 minutes later. The Friday before that just 3 reservations on the whole train and the wrong ones at that.

Once the train id is put in then the names should pop up. Changing ends in killarney and Kilkenny wouldn't make a difference unless the train shuts down and doesn't pick up the reservations on the restart.. It's still not a staff error. .

fxotoole · 28-09-2018 10:33am

end of the road wrote: »

why would it.

Abundant and more readily available than the finite resource that is diesel

Jamie2k9 · 28-09-2018 12:45pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Once the train id is put in then the names should pop up. Changing ends in killarney and Kilkenny wouldn't make a difference unless the train shuts down and doesn't pick up the reservations on the restart.. It's still not a staff error. .

I am telling you, drivers who switch ends or arrive at the train (some) end up messing up the system. The system works well apart from before departure in many cases. Now your not going to suggest the TMS just wipes the data all of a sudden.

They have told me there is an operational element to the problem as well as other technical problems.

Hilly Bill · 28-09-2018 12:50pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I am telling you, drivers who switch ends or arrive at the train (some) end up messing up the system. The system works well apart from before departure in many cases. Now your not going to suggest the TMS just wipes the data all of a sudden.

They have told me there is an operational element to the problem as well as other technical problems.

I've told you, it's not staff error.

Jamie2k9 · 28-09-2018 1:13pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I've told you, it's not staff error.

Staff error is part of the problem.

Hilly Bill · 28-09-2018 1:32pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Staff error is part of the problem.

As much as you want to believe that it is, it's not. Its a technical issue.

Jamie2k9 · 28-09-2018 1:58pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

As much as you want to believe that it is, it's not. Its a technical issue.

The info is directly from your employer.

Hilly Bill · 28-09-2018 5:16pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The info is directly from your employer.

That's just management passing the blame then and it's still wrong. You just need to listen to those involved with it on the ground.

Hydrogen powered trains

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