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Considering getting a mortgage

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  • 06-12-2017 11:37am
    #1
    wylo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭


    I know this is often mentioned and I did a search and there is a very old topic about it. But I believe the change in economy and nature of bookies etc and attitudes to gambling warrants a new conversation.

    Just for a bit of context.. I dont gamble casually, in fact I dont really enjoy random punts at all and my sporting knowledge isnt great at all.

    Im taking it more seriously as a long term plan to make a modest income.I understand profit/loss, long term ROI, value betting, staking plans, sports prediction/analysis (assisted by others including proven tipsters who I trust at this stage).

    I decided to undertake a plan and asked myself how much was I willing to lose if it goes pear shaped. I transferred 4.5K from my credit union to my bank and transferred this to Skrill/moneybookers. This meant I could have various betting accounts all funded through Skrill not my bank. It means there would be no betting activity on my bank.

    Other than that I only have 4 other transactions in my bank, €120 and €250 to betfair and the same back out (for money laundering reasons they dont allow you to transfer back to skrill unless its been lodged that way).

    Anyway, It has been going reasonably ok for the past 3 months.

    My issue is I would like to start talking to banks in the next 6 months to a year and I really dont want to see any activity related to betting, but if this is still going well, even very modestly I dont want to stop doing it, because profit aside, I do find it enjoyable.

    Just a few questions...

    1. Do you think a massive skrill transfer going back 6 months to a year would cause alarm bells?

    2. If I start withdrawing consistently do you think that may even cause alarm bells (even if im profiting). It will always be from Skrill.

    3. Might they ask to see my Skrill statement?

    4. Have you any other tips to get around this? I was considering getting very elaborate and setting up another bank account etc. But I dont know can banks see that I have other accounts. I also would have to rule out that chosen bank for getting the mortgage. Plus the damage is done , Ive already transferred to Skrill. I have a skrill mastercard so I could always widthdraw using that as my spending money.

    5. Am I being a dumbass to undertake this right around the same time I am pondering the idea of a mortgage?? :)

    Is there anyone here that is on the other side of this conversation, i.e. working in a bank?


Comments

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    #2
    Copper_pipe
    Registered Users Posts: 11,553 ✭✭✭✭Copper_pipe


    Get the Skrill Card


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    #3
    dor83
    Registered Users Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭dor83


    If you're using Betfair you can now lodge cash to your account in Paddy Power shops but I don't think you can withdraw, it might be worth asking in your local shop because it was still quite new when I was there and may have changed.


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    #4
    evosteo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭evosteo


    I was on the same boat. Get a skrill card. You can withdraw cash (profit) at any atms (small charge but worth it). You will need your last 6 months bank statements when applying for a mortgage. Try keep the skrill transactions to a minimum. Only withdraw from your bank account to skrill. Dont transfer money back. If you do have a couple of skrill transactions showing on your statements they WILL ask you to explain them. Just tell them they were online purchases and you use skrill like you would paypal for online purchases on ebay etc.... Good luck

    Edit: forgot to say ANY betting activity that shows up in your bank statements will more than likely be questioned. They go throught bank statements with a fine tooth comb.


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    #5
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭DubCount


    OP. Even though you get concepts like EV, long term ROI etc., its unlikely the nice people in the bank will understand what you are doing in the same way. They will interpret any activity as "gambling" and any profits as "lucky gambling". I'd keep this activity away from your bank statements until the mortgage application process is over.


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    #6
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users Posts: 17,963 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    evosteo wrote: »
    Edit: forgot to say ANY betting activity that shows up in your bank statements will more than likely be questioned. They go throught bank statements with a fine tooth comb.

    Really? Going how far back?


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    #7
    evosteo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭evosteo


    6 months gav is the norm but they can request a year plus depending on the underwriters. Afaik requests for statements longer than 6 months dont happen too often but the possibility remains


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    #8
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users Posts: 17,963 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Phew!! Mines 90% clean for the past 3 years :) will make sure it's squeaky clean for 12 months by the time the crash happens... Thanks Steo!


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    #9
    risteard7
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭risteard7


    Foolish man, you'll end up like the rest of the Gamblers. That 4.5K will be gone in no time.

    Keep you're hard earned money.


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    #10
    wylo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    Thanks for the advice folks. I got a Skrill card so thats pretty handy. If any small mini luxury spending can be done with that then it may look good from the banks point of view that I am not spending money on crap. Also, it could be a year before I start talking to banks at this stage and I am still saving away so I think Im going to be clean!!


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    #11
    wylo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭wylo


    risteard7 wrote: »
    Foolish man, you'll end up like the rest of the Gamblers. That 4.5K will be gone in no time.

    Keep you're hard earned money.


    Ill bite :),

    To be fair, I think every single person undertaking this no matter how smart or how disciplined they are can easily fall into that temptation. I do believe once you make it through several losing runs (even horrible ones that you could never believe could happen) and are still standing and continuing on exactly as planned then you're out of gambling/punting territory.

    I believe one edge that is worth having is the ability to learn from past mistakes and not get sucked in.

    Easier said than done.

    One thing Ive learned having started this is, the less interested I am in the bets the better.


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    #12
    risteard7
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭risteard7


    wylo wrote: »
    Ill bite :),

    To be fair, I think every single person undertaking this no matter how smart or how disciplined they are can easily fall into that temptation. I do believe once you make it through several losing runs (even horrible ones that you could never believe could happen) and are still standing and continuing on exactly as planned then you're out of gambling/punting territory.

    I believe one edge that is worth having is the ability to learn from past mistakes and not get sucked in.

    Easier said than done.

    One thing Ive learned having started this is, the less interested I am in the bets the better.

    Fair enough, good luck with it. I'm only speaking from personal experience. It's very very hard to be disciplined


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    #13
    Tarzann
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Tarzann


    Sorry to dig up an old thread but...
    I am in sort of similar situation to the OP here, I have a lump sum in a betting account that I wish to use towards a house deposit but it seems the bank won't look favourably on it. I haven't made a lodgment to a betting account from bank or credit card with over 10 years, has always been skrill since, and that was just to move money between betting accounts, haven't deposited from bank to skrill with 10 years either.
    Do Skrill cards show up on Credit checks ran by banks?
    As far as I know, credit cards with other financial institutions do show up.


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    #14
    evosteo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭evosteo


    Tarzann wrote: »
    Sorry to dig up an old thread but...
    I am in sort of similar situation to the OP here, I have a lump sum in a betting account that I wish to use towards a house deposit but it seems the bank won't look favourably on it. I haven't made a lodgment to a betting account from bank or credit card with over 10 years, has always been skrill since, and that was just to move money between betting accounts, haven't deposited from bank to skrill with 10 years either.
    Do Skrill cards show up on Credit checks ran by banks?
    As far as I know, credit cards with other financial institutions do show up.
    Depending on the amount maybe try and withdraw it to a parents or siblings account (who isnt applying for a mortgage) who will then "gift" the sum to you.


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    #15
    Tarzann
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Tarzann


    evosteo wrote: »
    Depending on the amount maybe try and withdraw it to a parents or siblings account (who isnt applying for a mortgage) who will then "gift" the sum to you.

    Good advice, I think!, are the sources of gifts checked though?!


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    #16
    evosteo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭evosteo


    Tarzann wrote: »
    Good advice, I think!, are the sources of gifts checked though?!

    It will only show a transaction between the other party and you. They cannot request more detail than that. Depending on the amount (maybe greater than 10k) they might ask for a signed letter stamped by a solicitor stating it was a gift. Thats about as dificult as it would get.


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    #17
    elgriff
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭elgriff


    Open a PayPal (I had one already). I then went to my AIB online and set up a direct debit to send money into PayPal just after payday. The details you need to set up the direct debit are available in 'my account' section of PayPal (IBAN, account # etc).

    I have a couple of accounts. Coral and B365. When I want to place a bet, I'll deposit using PayPal and punt away.

    Advantages
    - Much easier to keep track of. I put €50 in each month and that is it. Just over €10 per week max loss.
    - No betting showing up on bank account. As long as you don't involve credit or debit cards in the above, you will only ever see PayPal on your AIB account
    - Easier to budget. If I lose €25 in my first weekend of a new transfer, I'll take it easy for a week or two, as I know that I have only €25 left
    - You can have several accounts and choose best odds/offers, without your bank statement looking like a bookmaker's phone book!

    Be Aware
    - €15 min deposit/withdrawal on 365 for PayPal
    - the bank transfers cost nothing, but take about 2 days
    - I'll generally punt away and if I made a €30 profit on a day, take €20 out or something (into PayPal). At the end of the month, I'll clear out the PayPal back into bank account just as the fresh €50 arrives.
    - No special fees associated with this


    In the past I had no clue how much I was betting. Now I know I have made a small profit in each of the last three months and lost the €50 in each of the three motnhs before that


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    #18
    Tarzann
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Tarzann


    Here is some good advice I got today from a mortgage broker -

    They told me that assuming I won't formally apply for a mortgage until at least 6 months from now, make the full withdrawal of betting funds now to my savings account that I wish to put towards house purchase and continue regular saving as normal to same account.
    In over 6 months time, apply for mortgage with another bank, they can only see the last 6 months transactions on the statements and will not request any others.
    Job done... :-)


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    #19
    Tarzann
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Tarzann


    elgriff wrote: »
    Open a PayPal (I had one already).

    A direct debit to Pay Pal is asking for trouble! And will not look good if looking for mortgage.


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    #20
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    If you are applying for a mortgage, just knock the whole lot on the head. You have entered the dark side, and your punting career is in the history books.


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    #21
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users Posts: 17,963 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Tarzann wrote: »
    Good advice, I think!, are the sources of gifts checked though?!

    You'll be asked to submit a letter from your parents to state that the money is a gift so shouldn't be an issue.


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    #22
    elgriff
    Registered Users Posts: 461 ✭✭elgriff


    Tarzann wrote: »
    A direct debit to Pay Pal is asking for trouble! And will not look good if looking for mortgage.

    Cant agree Im afraid.


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    #23
    leandrolorenzi
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭leandrolorenzi


    Does Bet365 allow deposit/withdrawals via Paypal? I thought only cards payments were accepted


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    #24
    evosteo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭evosteo


    leandrolorenzi wrote: »
    Does Bet365 allow deposit/withdrawals via Paypal? I thought only cards payments were accepted

    Yes but dont deposit directly to your b365 account through paypal as it will show on your bank statement as paypal b365. Rather deposit money to your pay pal directly and then deposit to your b365 account from that balance on your paypal account


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    #25
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Gavin "shels" wrote: »
    You'll be asked to submit a letter from your parents to state that the money is a gift so shouldn't be an issue.

    Unless your parents don't want to lie and help you fraudulently obtain a mortgage.


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