End of #metoo

CruelCoin · 02-10-2018 4:21pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

He was under oath. He is expected to tell the truth. He didn't.

According to these guys he did. Or at least he didn't bend the truth enough to be counted as perjury.

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/7/17829320/brett-kavanaugh-supreme-court-hearing-perjury

professore · 02-10-2018 4:21pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

2 examples here.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/legal-experts-and-yale-friends-believe-kavanaugh-committed-perjury/

There are more. He was also asked if he had watched Dr Fords testimony. he replied he hadn't. He had.

Hmmmm. By Irish standards I bet he was practically teetotal in college.

"Boofed" and "Devil's Triangle" I've never heard of either of those terms. However it does seem to mean anal sex and a threesome respectively. He shouldn't have lied about it in that case, and yes I would say he perjured himself. If so he is an idiot .... as teenage boys talk about sex constantly. Actually having sex constantly is a different matter.

ELM327 · 02-10-2018 4:24pm

professore wrote: »

Hmmmm. By Irish standards I bet he was practically teetotal in college.

"Boofed" and "Devil's Triangle" I've never heard of either of those terms. However it does seem to mean anal sex and a threesome respectively. He shouldn't have lied about it in that case, and yes I would say he perjured himself. If so he is an idiot .... as teenage boys talk about sex constantly. Actually having sex constantly is a different matter.

Plus, what difference does one's sexual practices make to a rape allegation?
I've been to some nefarious clubs in the past and you meet all sorts, lawyers, solicitors, doctors, judges. Sexual deviance does not make you a rapist. It could be argued that it would make you less likely to be a rapist as you would be more aware of how important consent is.

ohnonotgmail · 02-10-2018 4:24pm

ELM327 wrote: »

That's funny, there's about the same evidence of name calling in my post as there is against Kavanaugh... NONE.

point to any name calling here:

Meh, you're not worth the effort.

ohnonotgmail · 02-10-2018 4:25pm

professore wrote: »

Hmmmm. By Irish standards I bet he was practically teetotal in college.

"Boofed" and "Devil's Triangle" I've never heard of either of those terms. However it does seem to mean anal sex and a threesome respectively. He shouldn't have lied about it in that case, and yes I would say he perjured himself. If so he is an idiot .... as teenage boys talk about sex constantly. Actually having sex constantly is a different matter.

well then why lie about it?

ELM327 · 02-10-2018 4:28pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Meh, you're not worth the effort.

So no name calling.
Gotcha.

Now if only the Dems and Ford would go away that easily when they were demonstrably shown to be factually lacking

professore · 02-10-2018 4:32pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

well then why lie about it?

Drinking too much is very subjective. For some it's 2 G & Ts. For others it's 10 pints and a few whiskey chasers. The other stuff is more credible.

ELM327 · 02-10-2018 4:35pm

professore wrote: »

Drinking too much is very subjective. For some it's 2 G & Ts. For others it's 10 pints and a few whiskey chasers. The other stuff is more credible.

And what does drinking have to do with being on the SCOTUS anyway. nothing.
It's irrelevant bluster by the democrats as they know they may win the senate at the mid terms, so the GOP need to get this nomination in now.

professore · 02-10-2018 4:36pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Plus, what difference does one's sexual practices make to a rape allegation?
I've been to some nefarious clubs in the past and you meet all sorts, lawyers, solicitors, doctors, judges. Sexual deviance does not make you a rapist. It could be argued that it would make you less likely to be a rapist as you would be more aware of how important consent is.

Lying about the meanings of words is the problem. I agree the whole probing into his drinking habits was bat**** crazy stuff. He should have been brutally honest.

ohnonotgmail · 02-10-2018 4:40pm

professore wrote: »

Drinking too much is very subjective. For some it's 2 G & Ts. For others it's 10 pints and a few whiskey chasers. The other stuff is more credible.

when a dozen people from your class call you out then you have not been entirely truthful. He is interviewing to be a supreme court justice. a job he will hold for life and cannot be removed from. Total honesty is to be expected.

CruelCoin · 02-10-2018 4:44pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

when a dozen people from your class call you out then you have not been entirely truthful. He is interviewing to be a supreme court justice. a job he will hold for life and cannot be removed from. Total honesty is to be expected.

There are over 3000 federal judges.

If you think you get to the top of a 3000 man pile by being squeaky clean then your expectations and reality are a little distant from each other.

ohnonotgmail · 02-10-2018 4:45pm

CruelCoin wrote: »

There are over 3000 federal judges.

If you think you get to the top of a 3000 man pile by being squeaky clean then your expectations and reality are a little distant from each other.

I dont expect him to be squeaky clean. I expect him to be honest.

2 Scoops · 02-10-2018 5:00pm

Doesn't matter who you believe, all that matters is if there is evidence to prove an allegation. That's how the legal system was designed because as much as we think people are generally honest and trustworthy, a substantial amount of people will lie and deceive for attention, power, politics or money, others may be unwilling due to mental illness etc. Onus is on the accuser to provide proof, not the other way around.

professore · 02-10-2018 5:10pm

2 Scoops wrote: »

Doesn't matter who you believe, all that matters is if there is evidence to prove an allegation. That's how the legal system was designed because as much as we think people are generally honest and trustworthy, a substantial amount of people will lie and deceive for attention, power, politics or money, others may be unwilling due to mental illness etc. Onus is on the accuser to provide proof, not the other way around.

If you've lived in the world any length of time, you will come across all of the above and more. In both genders and LGBTQ+, all political parties, religions, you name it too. Don't understand how so many people are naive about this.

Outlaw Pete · 02-10-2018 5:54pm

It really is getting laughable at this stage.........

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1047161282246234112

Dick Swiveller · 02-10-2018 5:59pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

It really is getting laughable at this stage.........

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1047161282246234112

All this nonsense is just ensuring Trump's re-election in 2020.

suicide_circus · 02-10-2018 6:23pm

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

02-10-2018 6:26pm

I'm so disappointed that so many people are willing to ruin someone's life based on zero evidence.

suicide_circus · 02-10-2018 6:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm so disappointed that so many people are willing to ruin someone's life based on zero evidence.

yeah but he's a SWM on Trump's team so he's fair game.

Outlaw Pete · 02-10-2018 7:08pm

Stoolcup wrote: »

All this nonsense is just ensuring Trump's re-election in 2020.

Yeah, totally agree, they have zero shame and many liberals are walking away from the democratic party in the states because of how they have acted since Trump's election. Laughable that they consider themselves progressive.

https://twitter.com/Alyssa_Milano/status/1046411747563896832

https://twitter.com/IWF/status/1047144762799808512

batgoat · 02-10-2018 7:14pm

Stoolcup wrote: »

All this nonsense is just ensuring Trump's re-election in 2020.

A very similar situation occurred with Anita Hill, the following year became known as the 'year of the woman' because of the large amount of female senators elected... That's the closest reference point we have for a situation such as this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_the_Woman

2 Scoops · 02-10-2018 8:59pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, totally agree, they have zero shame and many liberals are walking away from the democratic party in the states because of how they have acted since Trump's election. Laughable that they consider themselves progressive.

They claim none of this is political, whilst they sat Alyssa Milano directly in the camera shot behind Kavanaugh where she held up signs and made stupid faces. That was a small room with limited seating. Why was she there? Who invited her? Senator Dianne Feinstein, the same person we're supposed to believe that she had nothing to do with the letter leaking to the press. Democrats in the US really make me sick to my stomach, they have no morals at all, no talking points, only selective moral outrage and hypocrisy.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 02-10-2018 9:29pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, totally agree, they have zero shame and many liberals are walking away from the democratic party in the states because of how they have acted since Trump's election.

Ah yes, the famed #WalkAway campaign. Astroturfing at its finest.

SeanW · 03-10-2018 10:18pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

when a dozen people from your class call you out then you have not been entirely truthful. He is interviewing to be a supreme court justice. a job he will hold for life and cannot be removed from. Total honesty is to be expected.

And yet, he most likely told the truth about not trying to rape Dr. Ford.

The Mitchell report makes it clear that the accusations are not reliable.

Since the Mitchell report was published, more inconsistencies have emerged, including the likelihood that Dr. Ford lied about her history with polygraph testing in the past.

Between the stated objective of the Democrats to keep any further Trump nominees of the Supreme Court, at any cost, the political timing of the leaking of the allegations, the age of the accusations, the constant changes in the story, the inexplicable gaps, the two men who came forward and admitted it was them, not Kavanaugh or Judge, ... how much more do you need before you say "something is hinky here?"

Seriously, how much evidence that you need that this very likely to be a simple political hit?

Zorya · 02-12-2018 1:38pm

Ann Sterzinger is a writer I follow. She is a mouthy, brassy, tough lady at the best of times but she really lays it on the line in this article calling out the attention-seeking metoo victims of 'rapey' misadventures who have thoroughly messed up the word rape for people like her who are actually brutally violated. Bravo, Ann.

https://medium.com/@annsterzinger/sisters-from-a-real-rape-victim-to-metoo-5e11cab66a36

backspin. · 02-12-2018 3:33pm

Zorya wrote: »

Ann Sterzinger is a writer I follow. She is a mouthy, brassy, tough lady at the best of times but she really lays it on the line in this article calling out the attention-seeking metoo victims of 'rapey' misadventures who have thoroughly messed up the word rape for people like her who are actually brutally violated. Bravo, Ann.

https://medium.com/@annsterzinger/sisters-from-a-real-rape-victim-to-metoo-5e11cab66a36

Grim reading, she makes the point very well.

twinytwo · 02-12-2018 3:52pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I dont expect him to be squeaky clean. I expect him to be honest.

Honesty, Morality, Integrity.... things you find less and less these days. Certainly barely existent in the legal and political circles.

Zorya · 04-12-2018 6:38pm

#MeToo is actively hindering women's careers on Wall Street as men have begun to avoid being in female company or mentoring them, out of fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/a-wall-street-rule-for-the-metoo-era-avoid-women-at-all-cost?fbclid=IwAR1qFjF8gmxLy1W49V3xcb-Vhe8PsTyhIe6AKmxI4FlzG8O7jJ5LwiY5B1c

theguzman · 04-12-2018 6:53pm

Zorya wrote: »

#MeToo is actively hindering women's careers on Wall Street as men have begun to avoid being in female company or mentoring them, out of fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/a-wall-street-rule-for-the-metoo-era-avoid-women-at-all-cost?fbclid=IwAR1qFjF8gmxLy1W49V3xcb-Vhe8PsTyhIe6AKmxI4FlzG8O7jJ5LwiY5B1c

It's actually going to a state of nonsense like where airlines don't want to sit unaccompanied minors next to men, basically all men are being viewed as potential rapists and pedophiles. What a sad society we have become.

Zorya · 04-12-2018 6:56pm

theguzman wrote: »

It's actually going to a state of nonsense like where airlines don't want to sit unaccompanied minors next to men, basically all men are being viewed as potential rapists and pedophiles. What a sad society we have become.

The Rape of Lucretia · 04-12-2018 7:05pm

theguzman wrote: »

It's actually going to a state of nonsense like where airlines don't want to sit unaccompanied minors next to men, basically all men are being viewed as potential rapists and pedophiles.

Well, they are. Potentially.

04-12-2018 7:05pm

Zorya wrote: »

#MeToo is actively hindering women's careers on Wall Street as men have begun to avoid being in female company or mentoring them, out of fear.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03/a-wall-street-rule-for-the-metoo-era-avoid-women-at-all-cost?fbclid=IwAR1qFjF8gmxLy1W49V3xcb-Vhe8PsTyhIe6AKmxI4FlzG8O7jJ5LwiY5B1c

As usual, segregation results.

Brand all white people racist? Black graduations.
Brand all men rapists? Female isolation?

I avoid being in elevators with female students in the last year, cause one student joked about falsly accusing another student. That will just transfer into the workplace.

theguzman · 04-12-2018 7:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As usual, segregation results.

Brand all white people racist? Black graduations.
Brand all men rapists? Female isolation?

I avoid being in elevators with female students in the last year, cause one student joked about falsly accusing another student. That will just transfer into the workplace.

The behaviour of sizeable minority of younger women today could be best described as mercenary and I don't blame you one little bit.

I know a guy who was asked for drives to and from work from a female colleague living nearby him, he just refused and neatly covered his own ass by blaming his GF that she wouldn't approve, truth was the same guy would have gladly done this 3-4 years ago but as he said you can trust absolutely no woman today, which isn't true but a huge air of suspicion has crept into inter-sexual relations because of gender-identity politics and political correctness.

Zorya · 04-12-2018 7:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As usual, segregation results.

Brand all white people racist? Black graduations.
Brand all men rapists? Female isolation?

I avoid being in elevators with female students in the last year, cause one student joked about falsly accusing another student. That will just transfer into the workplace.

I'm not often in the city, any city, but I was passing through Dublin not too long ago and stopped in for lunch at Govindas (because it's vegetarian). Anyways, there were two young female students at the table next to mine and for an hour I listened to them emote and gasp and expound theatrically about a ''rape'' accusation one of them was going to initiate against a fellow they had had sex with at a party. I got the blow by blow account because they were so shrill. It was not a case of rape at all, but of regret. Nonetheless the friend had the 'victim' completely psyched up. The boy would be destroyed. It was disturbing to listen to this conjured hysteria from modern young adults. Especially as the mother of young men. God forbid that they would ever meet such brain-washed girls.

Fann Linn · 04-12-2018 7:28pm

theguzman wrote: »

The behaviour of sizeable minority of younger women today could be best described as mercenary and I don't blame you one little bit.

I know a guy who was asked for drives to and from work from a female colleague living nearby him, he just refused and neatly covered his own ass by blaming his GF that she wouldn't approve, truth was the same guy would have gladly done this 3-4 years ago but as he said you can trust absolutely no woman today, which isn't true but a huge air of suspicion has crept into inter-sexual relations because of gender-identity politics and political correctness.

A female journalist was debating your very point today with Ivana Bacik.

The tenet of her argument was that women can now make whatever allegation they like against men and there does not need to be charges proffered, or court procedures instigated or jail time. And in a lot of incidents there is none of the above and no need for any of the above.

What is guaranteed however,she argued, is that the man's life and credibility is always destroyed on foot of those claims.

James Brown · 04-12-2018 7:32pm

Does anybody personally know anyone wrongly accused of sexual harassment?
Does anyone personally know anyone who was sexually harassed?

I wonder what the number of lying women are to men carrying out sexual harassment.
Do we think we should all be George Hook about it or call it out if we see it, despite the assumption of guilt on the one accusing or the one accused, depending on your audience?

It's uncomfortable having to change your attitude.

theguzman · 04-12-2018 7:34pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

A female journalist was debating your very point today with Ivana Bacik.

The tenet of her argument was that women can now make whatever allegation they like against men and there does not need to be charges proffered, or court procedures instigated or jail time. And in a lot of incidents there is none of the above and no need for any of the above.

What is guaranteed however,she argued, is that the man's life and credibility is always destroyed on foot of those claims.

Guilty until proven innocent and then if found innocent some leftwing feminists will protest calling for your lynching as seen after high profile court trials in Belfast and Cork this year alone.

Silentcorner · 04-12-2018 7:35pm

I actually can't understand why a man would work with/coach female sports teams, you are playing with fire.

I am aware of a poor gentleman who has been accused of sexual assault in what is a farcical accusation but needs to be investigated nonetheless.

We saw something similar with the Mayo footballers earlier in the year who walked out claiming it "an unsafe" environment.

theguzman · 04-12-2018 7:38pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

A female journalist was debating your very point today with Ivana Bacik.

The tenet of her argument was that women can now make whatever allegation they like against men and there does not need to be charges proffered, or court procedures instigated or jail time. And in a lot of incidents there is none of the above and no need for any of the above.

What is guaranteed however,she argued, is that the man's life and credibility is always destroyed on foot of those claims.

I would have discreetly filmed it and shamed them on facebook anonymously to ensure the young lad had a fighting chance. How many innocent young men have killed themselves over such accusations each year?

py2006 · 04-12-2018 7:53pm

Zorya wrote: »

I'm not often in the city, any city, but I was passing through Dublin not too long ago and stopped in for lunch at Govindas (because it's vegetarian). Anyways, there were two young female students at the table next to mine and for an hour I listened to them emote and gasp and expound theatrically about a ''rape'' accusation one of them was going to initiate against a fellow they had had sex with at a party. I got the blow by blow account because they were so shrill. It was not a case of rape at all, but of regret. Nonetheless the friend had the 'victim' completely psyched up. The boy would be destroyed. It was disturbing to listen to this conjured hysteria from modern young adults. Especially as the mother of young men. God forbid that they would ever meet such brain-washed girls.

Oh my god, that is scary.

If I overheard that I would be tempted (but prob wouldn't) to say that I'd witnessed their conversation if an allegation was made.

Zorya · 04-12-2018 7:59pm

py2006 wrote: »

Oh my god, that is scary.

If I overheard that I would be tempted (but prob wouldn't) to say that I'd witnessed their conversation if an allegation was made.

Yeah, I could have said something but I have a general policy when out and about not to interrupt crazy.

Reviews and Books Galore · 04-12-2018 8:04pm

Zorya wrote: »

Yeah, I could have said something but I have a general policy when out and about not to interrupt crazy.

Sounded like revenge to be honest. I imagine the girl felt slighted and the friend is a bit of an enabler. It happens.

Young girls can be misandrist, but they do grow out if it and very few actually do anything negative.

Edit: The case of James Dashner is interesting . I feel like, hopefully, the publisher wanted to drop him anyway.

leggo · 04-12-2018 8:05pm

Hysteria is right. This thread has become people inventing scenarios from various corners of the world then saying “aren’t women just terrible??” because of the thing they secondhand heard/imagined.

Has one person who’s posted on here actually had a false accusation levelled against them (and seen their life ‘destroyed’ as a result) or suffered one tiny bit of inconvenience outside of their own anxiety? Like don’t reply to this post with a story you heard, or a news article, I’m asking if this happened to YOU. Because I know plenty of women who’ve firsthand experience of harassment/assault of some kind (the majority likely, they all have stories, plural), but I can’t as a bloke honestly say I know many men who’ve had their lives destroyed by false accusations. I can think of one lad I knew in school who got questioned as a teen and it got dropped. That would’ve been early 00’s and it doesn’t affect him one bit today, that’s it.

Augme · 04-12-2018 8:36pm

theguzman wrote: »

truth was the same guy would have gladly done this 3-4 years ago but as he said you can trust absolutely no woman today

Lol, sounds exactly like the kinda of guy any woman should not be left alone with.

Zorya · 04-12-2018 9:10pm

leggo wrote: »

Hysteria is right. This thread has become people inventing scenarios from various corners of the world then saying “aren’t women just terrible??” because of the thing they secondhand heard/imagined.

Has one person who’s posted on here actually had a false accusation levelled against them (and seen their life ‘destroyed’ as a result) or suffered one tiny bit of inconvenience outside of their own anxiety? Like don’t reply to this post with a story you heard, or a news article, I’m asking if this happened to YOU. Because I know plenty of women who’ve firsthand experience of harassment/assault of some kind (the majority likely, they all have stories, plural), but I can’t as a bloke honestly say I know many men who’ve had their lives destroyed by false accusations. I can think of one lad I knew in school who got questioned as a teen and it got dropped. That would’ve been early 00’s and it doesn’t affect him one bit today, that’s it.

If it's a first-hand overhearing its neither (er, well) second-hand nor can you imply something is invented simply because you were not there.

There have been plenty of cases of false accusation. You know this, of course. Your question is of the nature of how many murdered people do you know, or have many people do you know who have murdered someone - the answer is not relevant because in spite of absence or paucity of personal experience one knows murder happens.

But the false accusation issue is not the main point. Well, not my main point anyway. My point is that people (male or female) whining about rapey misadventures and regretted sexcapades under a fashionable #metoo delusion are utterly denigrating the experiences of people (male or female) who are actually sexually assaulted and violated.

They are different things and should never have become entangled.

Yes, plenty of women get annoying sexual attention, and if they could react promptly and strongly to such attention they can generally nip it in the bud. Also a personal rule should be to never use sexuality to advance one's position in any way and then cry wolf.

The difference between unwanted sexual harrassment or annoyance and violent sexual attack is of the order of magnitudes - they are simply not comparable. I know this, having experienced both. This is what makes #metoo a suspect, if not hysterical, social movement, in my opinion.

leggo · 04-12-2018 9:57pm

I said don’t reply to my post unless the thing everyone is hysterical about happened to you. So far, zero takers in the first few hours. I expect some newly registered users and some dodgy-sounding stories overnight.

James Brown · 04-12-2018 9:58pm

And I thought #metoo was women saying they no longer wanted to be silenced in a male dominated often sexist as a norm world. No longer told 'they were asking for it' by going out in 'asking for it clothes' or frilly knickers and getting drunk knowing there was a penis near by. The bitches :rolleyes:

meeeeh · 04-12-2018 10:38pm

Zorya wrote: »

Yes, plenty of women get annoying sexual attention, and if they could react promptly and strongly to such attention they can generally nip it in the bud. Also a personal rule should be to never use sexuality to advance one's position in any way and then cry wolf.

The difference between unwanted sexual harrassment or annoyance and violent sexual attack is of the order of magnitudes - they are simply not comparable. I know this, having experienced both. This is what makes #metoo a suspect, if not hysterical, social movement, in my opinion.

First time I was properly inappropriately touched was when I was 13. A man sitting behind me started touching me, grabbing my breasts and kissing my neck. It went on for a while and I was to embarrassed to scream or draw attention to it. I had an umbrella and eventually managed to hit his hand hard enough to hear sharp intake of breath and then he eventually left. I realise something like that is not as horrific as violent sexual attack but no child or adult should have to put up with treatment like that. 27 years later I still remember sour cigarette smell of his breath. It was not the only harrasment or the worst I experienced but do not diminish my experience because I was afraid to make fuss. Dismissive attitude like yours makes victims feel embarrassed because apparently what is happening to them isn't really that bad. And if they mention it later it's just dissmised as bit of hysteria from those who were not brave enough to shout stop. Screw that, just because I had no bruises it doesn't mean that part of my childhood didn't end that day.

As for the article posted #metoo is far from perfect and I disagree with witch hunt tendencies some have but the article posted made me laugh. So the men are afraid to mentor and hire women for higher positions (where women are underrepresented), they are not worried about being accused of sexual harrasment claims from the support staff who are majority female. (Breakdown in the article). I think some are just threatened by competent colleagues and are using me too as an excuse to keep possible competition at arms length.

Ozymandius2011 · 04-12-2018 10:57pm

Tarana Burke, who founded the #MeToo movement, has expressed concern at the direction it has taken in recent months.

....."We have moved so far away from the origins of this movement that started a decade ago, or even the intentions of the hashtag that started just a year ago, that sometimes, the Me Too movement that I hear some people talk about is unrecognizable to me," Burke said. "But be clear: This is a movement about the one-in-four girls and the one-in-six boys who are sexually assaulted every year and carry those wounds into adulthood."...

emptyhouse2222 · 04-12-2018 11:04pm

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Tarana Burke, who founded the #MeToo movement, has expressed concern at the direction it has taken in recent months.

Some body post a pic of tirana burke

End of #metoo

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