Priests & nuns

We've a Bishop of Pittsburgh and a nun on one site and nowt on the other.

Lots of failed seminarians though, cause it was a cheap way to get secondary education in those days I guess :pac:

pinkypinky wrote: »

. My great-aunt was what my father called a "failed nun" - she joined an order but never was ordained (is that the right term?)

Never was professed.

I have quite a few nuns in my family tree but only one priest. I admire their long and devoted service to the people of God. I have pages for all of them, and photos where possible, on my Ancestry tree.

Irish and Irish-American nuns built New York's social services system from nothing, as one example of this service. I recommend a book, 'Habits of Compassion: Irish Catholic Nuns and the Origins of New York's Welfare System, 1830-1920' by Maureen Fitzgerald, based on her PhD dissertation.

I have to say it makes me sad to see what seems like hate speech allowed on this usually helpful and friendly forum. Wish we could just answer the question without the digression. But as digressions are ok, then this is mine.

On both sides the families are quite religious yet none of them are nuns or priests. Even going back none were..apart from.....

An aunt on my mother’s side ‘was’ a nun but left after a very short stint. She is VERY religious to this day, married with kids but if you were to ask her about her brief time in the process of going to become a nun, a woman who never would curse or speak ill of anybody ... “bunch of fûcking evil bastards”...

My grandfather had the 'honour' of being offered a place in a seminary and left his village at the age of 13 yrs and was not to return for many years. He trained with the De La Salle order and in the 1911 census I find him as a teacher living with other men with a Christian Brother as head of household. I am not sure if he 'transferred' or if they had some swopping arrangement? He later was promoted to assistant master and send to an industrial school outside Manchester. This broke his spirit and he fled to far east coast of England where he spent the rest of his life as an ordinary teacher and where he raised a family. He must have borne the guilt of a being a failed religious on his visits back to his village in adult life. This would be in the eyes of his family and also of the small village.

Another relative went to America at the age of 16 yrs to join the Presentation Order in San Francisco (1873). She travelled alone across the country after arriving in New York. The railway connection was only built a few years. She survived the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed her convent and ended her days as teacher in California. I was once told that should she have wished to leave, her family would have had to repay the order for the expenses involved in her training etc. More well to do women might have offered a dowry to the convent they might have been returned to them on leaving.

Thanks for that, I often wondered why he changed? the Industrial School in UK was run by Christian Brothers.

We don't have that many nuns or priests in the family but religion was and is important to my family on both sides. My grandfather's twin sister became a nun. My 3x great grandfather's brother was a priest. They're the only ones who I can think of who were siblings of ancestors. The rest of the nuns and priests in the family are cousins of varying degrees. One of them included Fr. Michael O'Flanagan known as the 'Rebel Priest'. He'd be my first cousin 3x removed. My great grandfather's sister wasn't a nun but she was a Lady of the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre.

pinkypinky wrote: »

Was that a sodality?

I don't think so. I don't really know much about it to be honest but it was mentioned in her obituary. My aunt referred to it as a sort of religious knighthood. Looking online, it is referred to as a Catholic order of knighthood under the protection of the Holy See. I don't really know how you get the honour. Once again looking online, membership of the order is by invitation only, to practicing Catholic men and women – laity and clergy – of good character, minimum 25 years of age, who have distinguished themselves by concern for the Christians of the Holy Land.

Her husband also had some religious 'titles' (I suppose you'd call them). He was a Private Chamberlain and Knight of the Cape and Sword to Pope Pius XII as well as a Knight of Grace of the Gregorian Order of St. George according to his obituary. The latter seems to be in recognition of their personal service to the Holy See and to the Roman Catholic Church, through their unusual labors, their support of the Holy See, and the examples they set in their communities and their countries. I couldn't find much on the former.

They seem to be honourary titles granted by the Pope in a similar way that a British monarch makes someone a knight or dame.

Garlinge wrote: »

I was once told that should she have wished to leave, her family would have had to repay the order for the expenses involved in her training etc. More well to do women might have offered a dowry to the convent they might have been returned to them on leaving.

I have been told by my grand parents, those who did not have a dowry were the nuns who had to work, i.e. were trained to be a teacher etc. While those who had sufficient dowry could devote their life to God/prayer. Or has my grandfather would say about a close relative of his, she ever did a days work in her life". The story was she was always very frail and her father decided being a nun was the best thing for her. So sent her off to the nuns with a big dowry, where she lived a to a good old age.

As well the age a girl entered the convent influenced the matter. An older girl 20+ would have to pay to get in and would nor be trained in a profession, just do house duties.

bocaman wrote: »

Back in the day having a priest or a nun in the family was seen as a badge of honour and gave you some standing within the community. Many entered just to avail of an education. How man priests and nuns though ended up regretting their decision and went onto have unhappy lives.

From a modern perspective we would think many were unhappy. But as you said you self they were respected and looked up to by the general population. Certainly some were not suited to be teachers, but these were mainly Brothers. Lower in the peaking order than a Priest or higher again were Jesuit Priests. Some appeared to be independently wealthy and by all accounts had great life.

Priests in parishes could become relatively wealthy, often financed the purchase of land for the home family.

As with McTaggert, any other surnames which indicate the celibacy rule wasn't always adhered to.

I think each Diocese produced one and it was annual for Dublin when I was familiar with same in 1970's.

On the subject of nuns, there was a project about 10 yrs ago, to record details of all Irish nuns organised by the Genealogical Society of Ireland. They have an archive in Loughlinstown, Co Dublin so perhaps the paper records are there.