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Oral and Practical exams cancelled for LC

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    #2
    naxmax9
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭naxmax9


    https://youtu.be/AnCu2_5AnaY


    Hmmm... My opinions on the topic as a 6th year


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    #3
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Under the circumstances, nax, I doubt people will be allowed to suddenly opt to change to HL when they were registered for OL. Yes, it's normally been possible to do this, but these circumstances are not normal.


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    #4
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,115 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The marking of the written paper will differentiate.


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    #5
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Under the circumstances, nax, I doubt people will be allowed to suddenly opt to change to HL when they were registered for OL. Yes, it's normally been possible to do this, but these circumstances are not normal.

    They won't, that was in the email that came out from the SEC. Students can drop from Higher to Ordinary, but not go up.


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    #6
    Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev


    spurious wrote: »
    Students will be given 100% in those components.

    https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/leaving-cert-and-junior-cycle-orals-and-practical-exams-have-been-cancelled-39057608.html

    Would it not make more sense to simply disregard the oral component instead of handing out 100% to all candidates? And instead mark the students out of the aural and written paper.

    The oral component is a signifigant chunk of the exam, will this not give unfair LC points to language students against those not doing a language or against students who are reapplying to college a year later?

    I did German, French, Irish and Spanish for my LC in 2008. Imagine the advantage I would have had :pac::pac:


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    #7
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Zagreb Ebnem Zloty Diev wrote: »
    Would it not make more sense to simply disregard the oral component instead of handing out 100% to all candidates? And instead mark the students out of the aural and written paper.

    The oral component is a signifigant chunk of the exam, will this not give unfair LC points to language students against those not doing a language or against students who are reapplying to college a year later?

    I did German, French, Irish and Spanish for my LC in 2008. Imagine the advantage I would have had :pac::pac:

    We don't know what's coming for the other subjects yet. The same has happened for LC Music, and the practical there is 50%.

    I would imagine that anyone who is reapplying with results from a previous year could be awarded the 40% component in Irish and have their grade naturally adjusted to compensate. There are a lot of things we don't know yet.


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    #8
    Canard
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 8,572 Mod ✭✭✭✭Canard


    I just can't understand why they decided to award 100% instead of cancelling it out. The written paper can't differentiate if literally no one can fail Irish now. :confused: Yes it's unfortunate, and who knows if the written parts will even happen, but this doesn't even the playing field at all, it just skews the data.


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    #9
    naxmax9
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭naxmax9


    Canard wrote: »
    I just can't understand why they decided to award 100% instead of cancelling it out. The written paper can't differentiate if literally no one can fail Irish now. :confused: Yes it's unfortunate, and who knows if the written parts will even happen, but this doesn't even the playing field at all, it just skews the data.

    I have a feeling the leaving will be cancelled altogether


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    #10
    JoeFritzl
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭JoeFritzl


    Canard wrote: »
    I just can't understand why they decided to award 100% instead of cancelling it out. The written paper can't differentiate if literally no one can fail Irish now. :confused: Yes it's unfortunate, and who knows if the written parts will even happen, but this doesn't even the playing field at all, it just skews the data.

    Because there will still be the bell shaped curve and students will still achieve the higher end of the results based on their written paper.

    This rules out court cases and other potential issues which may arise if they were not to award the pass and certain students were to fail the exams. It's a prudent choice, if a student has been studying to achieve good marks in the oral exam and hasn't studied for the written paper then they will still pass and get the 40%. It's obviously still not ideal/fair on people who did study, but again, it does prevent the potential for the SEC to be sued by students.


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    #11
    c_f_p99
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭c_f_p99


    JoeFritzl wrote: »
    Because there will still be the bell shaped curve and students will still achieve the higher end of the results based on their written paper.

    This rules out court cases and other potential issues which may arise if they were not to award the pass and certain students were to fail the exams. It's a prudent choice, if a student has been studying to achieve good marks in the oral exam and hasn't studied for the written paper then they will still pass and get the 40%. It's obviously still not ideal/fair on people who did study, but again, it does prevent the potential for the SEC to be sued by students.

    Yeah, I guess in a society as litigious as ours, that’s why they did this. Amazing how people don’t see the implications this would have on standardising the exams. Pathetic really.

    I’m annoyed as it means that the marking schemes for these subjects will not assess people fairly, rather they will just aim to drive the grades down. It’s impossible to know what could be penalised and what can’t be penalised.


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    #12
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Canard wrote: »
    I just can't understand why they decided to award 100% instead of cancelling it out. The written paper can't differentiate if literally no one can fail Irish now. :confused: Yes it's unfortunate, and who knows if the written parts will even happen, but this doesn't even the playing field at all, it just skews the data.

    Going on last years statistics only 3.7% got a H7 in Higher Level Irish (which is a pass since the new grading system came in) and 0.4% got a H8. So it's not exactly a huge number of people.


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    #13
    c_f_p99
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭c_f_p99


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Going on last years statistics only 3.7% got a H7 in Higher Level Irish (which is a pass since the new grading system came in) and 0.4% got a H8. So it's not exactly a huge number of people.

    Yeah, I hope that it wouldn’t affect the H2/H1 students that much as they would probably do very well in the orals anyway.


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    #14
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    JoeFritzl wrote: »
    This rules out court cases and other potential issues which may arise if they were not to award the pass and certain students were to fail the exams. It's a prudent choice, if a student has been studying to achieve good marks in the oral exam and hasn't studied for the written paper then they will still pass and get the 40%. It's obviously still not ideal/fair on people who did study, but again, it does prevent the potential for the SEC to be sued by students.
    You're probably right about the SEC factoring this in, especially after last year.

    I also think McHugh would have seen it as the option likely to garner the least backlash.
    c_f_p99 wrote: »
    Yeah, I hope that it wouldn’t affect the H2/H1 students that much as they would probably do very well in the orals anyway.
    I honestly don't see it affecting the higher grades people at all, unless maybe some poor cratur who can chatter in Irish nineteen to the dozen but has ferocious spelling so tends to do less well on written exams, they might slip slightly. They'll be few and far between though.

    The automatic pass bit does stick in my craw a bit still, but the more I think about it, the less it annoys me tbh.

    I'm certainly glad the orals are cancelled, both because it reduces stress on students and because it reduces potential COVID-19 transmission vectors.


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    #15
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    We must discuss this very urgent matter that I'm sure is at the forefront of students' minds at the moment. I've made this thread for discussion concerning this subject matter only.

    Should it come to it, we may well see the curation of a new forum dedicated to the discussion of this injustice.


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    #16
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,115 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    You're going a bit over the top now.
    Nothing is going to happen to change the decision.

    Moving this thread to the appropriate forum. Local charter applies.

    Please don't post about this issue in the Teaching Forum again.


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    #17
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Given that there was already a thread on this topic in this forum, I have merged the threads. - MOD
    Lc2020 wrote: »
    We must discuss this very urgent matter that I'm sure is at the forefront of students' minds at the moment. I've made this thread for discussion concerning this subject matter only.
    I suspect that whether or when the LC will take place is more likely to be at the forefront of their minds.
    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Should it come to it, we may well see the curation of a new forum dedicated to the discussion of this injustice.
    No.

    We won't.


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    #18
    Shn99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    I have just been sent this by a friend of mine....a website outlining a proposal to cancel the leaving cert...... Set up by the winner of BT young scientist exhibition....I'll let ye see it for yourselves :/

    www.cancelthelc.com


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    #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Shn99 wrote: »
    I have just been sent this by a friend of mine....a website outlining a proposal to cancel the leaving cert...... Set up by the winner of BT young scientist exhibition....I'll let ye see it for yourselves :/

    www.cancelthelc.com

    Not willing to put their names to it I see. I don't think it's worth the paper it's written on myself.


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    #20
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Not willing to put their names to it I see. I don't think it's worth the paper it's written on myself.

    Riddled with spelling mistakes too, is it any wonder they are proponents of this terrible idea.


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    #21
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    No other country is going through with state exams this year. Ireland just has to be different.

    So are you FOR cancelling the LC, or AGAINST it? Because honestly, you don't seem to be consistent at all.

    And if you're for it, what measures would YOU propose for dealing with college entry?


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    #22
    swejaysus
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭swejaysus


    Shn99 wrote: »
    I have just been sent this by a friend of mine....a website outlining a proposal to cancel the leaving cert...... Set up by the winner of BT young scientist exhibition....I'll let ye see it for yourselves :/

    In fairness, they have a point. It'd be ridiculous to go ahead with the exams when students likely won't have been in school since three months before at the least. Add to that the chances that they could get this virus from being in these crowded exam halls and you've got a recipe for disaster. Don't know about predicted grades but ridiculous carry on risking all this for the sake of a few exams.


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    #23
    Tristan_
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭Tristan_


    Shn99 wrote: »
    I have just been sent this by a friend of mine....a website outlining a proposal to cancel the leaving cert...... Set up by the winner of BT young scientist exhibition....I'll let ye see it for yourselves :/

    www.cancelthelc.com


    As a current 6th year student I would probably gouge my eyes out if this was implemented. My personal highlight, extracted from the "FAQs" section, is:
    What if I take subjects outside of school?
    If you are being taught the subject by a registered teacher, they should be able to predict you a grade using the same procedure as a class teacher. If this is not the case, you should be given the opportunity to predict your own grade, which you will have to verify in an examination.


    Looking forward to my post-LC cancellation LC exam to prove the H1 I've predicted for myself. Ought to go swimmingly. :pac:


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    #24
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Tristan_ wrote: »
    As a current 6th year student I would probably gouge my eyes out if this was implemented. My personal highlight, extracted from the "FAQs" section, is:




    Looking forward to my post-LC cancellation LC exam to prove the H1 I've predicted for myself. Ought to go swimmingly. :pac:

    Ya you couldn't make it up... let's cancel the exam, predict your own grade but you'll have to verify it by an exam that has been cancelled. Would love to know how many drugs these people took when they were writing this.


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    #25
    Lc2020
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 108 ✭✭Lc2020


    Following the cancellation of the Irish orals/music practicals,

    Surely the construction practicals will be cancelled too?

    This is ridiculous. Preposterous. Imagine giving people marks for doing nothing. They can't get away with this.


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    #26
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Threads on the same topic merged - again. Do not start any more separate threads on this topic. If you must rant, rant here. - MOD


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    #27
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Lc2020 wrote: »
    Following the cancellation of the Irish orals/music practicals,

    Surely the construction practicals will be cancelled too?

    This is ridiculous. Preposterous. Imagine giving people marks for doing nothing. They can't get away with this.


    You're whinging about exams being cancelled here, and in the other thread you are whinging about exams not being cancelled. Which is it????


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