Solid wood speaker

CharlieZeroOne · 05-08-2019 10:37pm #1

Hi all,

total novice here. I can build stuff, but I have no notion about wood (the material)
I would like to try build a speaker using real wood and dovetails. Below is a speaker I recently made

I would rather use real wood on my next speaker because it's a better material to sculpt. I don't want to sculpt plywood, the man made
layered constuction puts a dampener on the idea.

I have no clue about what wood to use. All thoughts appreciated!
Ideally I would like to use the prettiest wood with the best grain. Walnut so far, looks like a contender.

To summarise:

• The boards contacting and expanding will be an issue with an indoor / outdoor speaker

• I have read that quarter-sawn wood is the best to use for this purpose

• Using dovetails should help with the woood expanding / contracting

• I need large pieces, the front of the above speaker is 15" x 24" or 60 x 40mm

That's all I got so far really. Currently looking for a source of quarter-sawn timber in Ireland

06-08-2019 8:53pm

I'd recommend you start with some basic loudspeaker design software or plans, build with MDF or baltic birch plywood and then progress to building something higher quality with detailed features from nicer wood.

A really nice set of speakers can be built with a half sheet of MDF, some reasonably priced drivers/tweeters and the hardware to put them together.

It also needs to be said, invest in some decent speaker drivers, crossovers and an external amplifier to drive them or else you're just wasting time and money. What you have there would sound as good in a cardboard box as it would in a leaky walnut enclosure with a crap design. A €30 bluetooth speaker would outperform it in every single way, so go back to the drawing board, unless you just don't care about the results.

In any case, solid wood isn't going to be anywhere near the best option for you to be building speakers with, so give up on that idea whatever route you take. You need to start with the basics and work up to it, because throwing money away on expensive materials that are unsuitable for the job at hand and for which you don't have the abilities (YET!) to work with them properly is just a bad idea.

The advice is given honestly. You'll get there, but you need to start from the beginning if you want to make a nice job of it rather than a wooden box that sounds like crap and is full of crap.

As for dovetails? Absolutely unnecessary. MDF, a router and glue. Good designs and affordable audio components, that's where to begin.

CharlieZeroOne · 06-08-2019 9:31pm

Show me something you have made, then I can rate your advice. I'm not sure you arent full of crap yourself.

06-08-2019 10:29pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Show me something you have made, then I can rate your advice. I'm not sure you arent full of crap yourself.

Take it or leave it, it's honest advice.

You won't find quarter sawn 16"+ wide boards of machined and ready to cut/finish walnut in Ireland, not to suit someone with what appear to be the most basic of tools and the most rudimentary/crude woodworking abilities to turn into a loudspeaker worth having invested money and effort into.

Now you can accept that you're getting good advice or not, that's up to you, entirely. But you asked and I gave an honest answer. I'm not here to tell you that your screwed together box of chinese junk shows promise and that you'd be well advised to waste quarter sawn hardwood on version 2. You need to start with the basics or else you're wasting your own time, let alone anyone else here who has more experience in making nicely designed, highly functional speaker enclosures.

Good luck with your next box full of holes. :rolleyes:

CharlieZeroOne · 06-08-2019 10:31pm

These are the speakers in my box: http://www.visaton.de/en/products/fullrange-systems/b-200-6-ohm

The amps I use have genuine Tripath chips in them, and they are getting hard to come by. Looks like junk tho right? I never considered you would judge it by the amp. The amp is actaully a really nice amp, due to its internals.

I earn wages, for my sins, and I dont mind spending money on materials. I have already used plywood, my gripe with it is, that it's not attractive.
Real wood is aesthecally superior, in my opinion. The sky isn't going to fall if I don't use MDF. It's a speaker, not a sacred cow.

And if it is a sacred cow, I want a good looking cow dammit. I have a long way to go, my skills are basic currently.
Been watching a lot of Jeremy Broun, Can anyone recommend other Irish / UK woodworking channels?

06-08-2019 10:44pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

These are the speakers in my box: http://www.visaton.de/en/products/fullrange-systems/b-200-6-ohm

I work to earn money, and with that money I buy materials. I have already used plywood, my gripe with it is, that it's not attractive.
Real wood is aesthecally superior, in my opinion. The sky isn't going to fall if I don't use MDF. It's a speaker, not a sacred cow.

And if it is a sacred cow, I want a good looking cow dammit.

Yeah, generally non-reference full range drivers retailed by Thomann for €120 a piece, with a pair of them fitted in a terrible design of enclosure and being driven by a $12 'power amplifier' from banggood/aliexpress is NEVER going to be a cow, let alone a sacred one. It's barely even a pig.

Look, if you want nice wood, off you go to http://woodworkers.ie/ - They'll take your money and sort you out with something you think is nice, I'm sure. Enjoy making whatever you make. Have fun.

06-08-2019 10:51pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

The amps I use have genuine Tripath chips in them, and they are getting hard to come by. Looks like junk tho right? I never considered you would judge it by the amp. The amp is actaully a really nice amp, due to its internals.

I earn wages, for my sins, and I dont mind spending money on materials. I have already used plywood, my gripe with it is, that it's not attractive.
Real wood is aesthecally superior, in my opinion. The sky isn't going to fall if I don't use MDF. It's a speaker, not a sacred cow.

And if it is a sacred cow, I want a good looking cow dammit. I have a long way to go, my skills are basic currently.
Been watching a lot of Jeremy Broun, Can anyone recommend other Irish / UK woodworking channels?

The amps you use are junk. Totally unsuited to driving a pair of 8" speakers like that. It's like using a tack hammer to drive 8" nails.

CharlieZeroOne · 06-08-2019 10:54pm

I find it hard to receive your criticism, if I'm honest. It's a tripath chip, in a Plywood box, with really nice speakers.

I'm not sure what more you want regarding sonics? It sounds lovely. The recipe is good.

06-08-2019 10:59pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

I find it hard to receive your criticism, if I'm honest. It's a tripath chip, in a Plywood box, with really nice speakers.

I'm not sure what more you want regarding sonics? It sounds lovely. The recipe is good.

If you're happy with what you have, good for you.

www.woodworkers.ie

As I said, enjoy.

CharlieZeroOne · 06-08-2019 11:05pm

Goodnight to you too.

SmartinMartin · 06-08-2019 11:18pm

You ask for advice. You even say all thoughts appreciated. Someone takes the time to delve into their experience and compose a comprehensive and honest answer. You then throw the toys out of the pram. Honestly, what was the point? If you can't take any form of criticism don't ask a couple of thousand strangers for an opinion.

CharlieZeroOne · 06-08-2019 11:23pm

I have to work now, so unable to chat, which is why I said goodnight.

lgk · 07-08-2019 5:53pm

If you want to make a pretty box, do that. If you want to make the best sounding speaker enclosure, use dense ply of MDF, otherwise you're running into all kinds of resonance issues.

How did you calculate the internal volume of the above speaker?

CharlieZeroOne · 07-08-2019 9:00pm

IGK hi there. You mentioned 2 topics:

1. I don't want to work with plywood or MDF. That's all. I dont feel like investing my time or energy, on a material I have no love for. I do like the idea of working with real wood.

2. I failed maths. So I built the box, and went onto an audio forum, and explained to them that, if they would help me calculate the volume, I could adjust the depth of the box to get the desired volume.
I filled the box with seed and it came out as 24.8 litres. According to the forum members -

Those speakers in 12 liters each will make a 6dB boom near 116Hz. That is not an unacceptable response.

So it was advised that I leave the box as-is. Those same forum members will (I hope) assist me with the next build. So first I need to build the box, and then go ask the net, and then change the box. I'm going to bang out a few of these. Hopefully I will get better as I go. It will be good craic.

I havn't a notion about crossovers either, hence using full range drivers. It's major handicap not understanding the specs, I have to say.

I would like to remake this one in wood next, an RC-550. I have one at home, disassembled, so I have all the pieces needed to make a replica. Looking at it, it suggests the best config would involve a woofer and a crossover. It will look good done in timber, I think.

10 inch woofer on that one.

lgk · 08-08-2019 9:43am

Look at sites such as this one to help you work out the ideal dimensions.

If you do go with solid wood, choose the most dense you can get. You will almost certainly need to make up wide boards by joining multiple pieces. If you only have access to basic tools, you'll need to go to somewhere like Woodworkers mentioned above and have them machine the wood for you. Jointing strips to make wider boards by hand takes practice and skill. That'll ramp up the costs, but get you the results you're after.

Cross-overs aren't that complex to, think of them as a filter, a two-way one directing higher frequencies to a tweeter and lower to the larger speaker. Take a read of this.

If you're going to invest good money in a solid wood cabinet, you may as well put similar effort into the electronics.

CharlieZeroOne · 08-08-2019 10:01am

Igk thanks, really, thanks, thats the type of info I am needing. I'm in work right now, I have a few questions I might put to you later, chief among them being, how strong is a join like that?

Having never used glue to join wood i wonder how strong it will be.

The costs aren't such an issue, I have time on my side, and given enough time I can afford most the materials. More so its the gaps in my knowledge that are the issue.

I came across a thread i started in 2007 last night, I had bought two drivers, Celestion BL10 150 NEO's, I bought them blind, like a fool, and went on the forum asking for tweeter recommendations. I still have those woofers.

I think I was too clueless back then to follow up on what they said, but looking back now, one of them suggested using a fullrange driver as the tweeter, and putting a low pass filter on the woofer. That strikes me as a pretty good idea.

magicbastarder · 08-08-2019 10:02am

i'm going to echo much of the above - i don't see why you're focussing so much on the wood and not how the speaker works; why put that money and effort into a speaker which looks good but sounds poor? surely if you're interested in speaker design, you focus on getting it sounding good first, and looking good after?

plus, i'm no expert on this - but (genuine question) i'm curious about the focus on the volume of the box but not the shape; surely the shape is as important as the volume, i'd have assumed?

would you not consider a separate left and right speaker enclosure? you're not going to get much stereo separation with the two drivers so close to each other.

anyway, if you want to make something with dovetails, you need to learn to make dovetails first; you'll get it wrong before you get it right, and practicing on expensive wood will make for expensive chippings and pretty firewood.
i did a woodworking course in dublin, evening course, one evening a week over 10 weeks - as it's coming up to that time of year again, it might be worth looking into that? we were taught the various types of woodworking joints.

lgk · 08-08-2019 10:14am

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Having never used glue to join wood i wonder how strong it will be.

A good quality wood glue on well fitting joints, clamped tightly during curing will be incredibly strong. In many cases the wood will split before a glue joint fails.

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

I think I was too clueless back then to follow up on what they said, but looking back now, one of them suggested using a fullrange driver as the tweeter, and putting a low pass filter on the woofer. That strikes me as a pretty good idea.

I'd err on the side of the specialist solution for the job of tweeter, but I'm not an audiophile, so I'll leave that to the experts.

timfromtang · 08-08-2019 1:28pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Hi all,

total novice here. I can build stuff, but I have no notion about wood (the material)
I would like to try build a speaker using real wood and dovetails. Below is a speaker I recently made

I would rather use real wood on my next speaker because it's a better material to sculpt. I don't want to sculpt plywood, the man made
layered constuction puts a dampener on the idea.

I have no clue about what wood to use. All thoughts appreciated!
Ideally I would like to use the prettiest wood with the best grain. Walnut so far, looks like a contender.

To summarise:

• The boards contacting and expanding will be an issue with an indoor / outdoor speaker

• I have read that quarter-sawn wood is the best to use for this purpose

• Using dovetails should help with the woood expanding / contracting

• I need large pieces, the front of the above speaker is 15" x 24" or 60 x 40mm

That's all I got so far really. Currently looking for a source of quarter-sawn timber in Ireland

hi charlie,
i have a hundred acre forest, a sawmill, and some experience with drying timber etc, i may be able to supply suitable material.
pm me

tim

tang is a real place located in the midlands

08-08-2019 1:34pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

I filled the box with seed

Durty

CharlieZeroOne · 08-08-2019 10:52pm

Igk thankyou, great stuff.

Timfromtang Legend.

Magicbastarder that is a great idea, but, I have a lot on my plate already, I think I have seen it enough times on youtube to give it a go. Going to have to attept it sometime soon. I should be able to do it.

Regarding the why, pretty uber alles, and try make the best attempt at it sounding good. I can but fail. I had a JBL extreme and that thing doesnt look funky. It's an egg. It's an audi tt. It doesn't look specifically like it's for music. The speaker arrangment on the square 80s blasters has a lot to do with Pi, the golden spiral. If I want to come up with my own design it's not an easy task. It is easy latch on to JVC's success.

Don't ask me to explain why but I know its true. The result is these things work on multiple levels.

chillyspoon · 09-08-2019 2:36pm

I recommend you join one of these FB groups Charlie; thousands of people building their own speakers from myriad materials at all levels (from $15 Aliexpress bluetooth amps to audiophile systems where the finished speakers are worth thousands) so there's loads of advice available focused not only on the materials but with speaker construction specifically in mind.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/diyspeakers/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYLoudspeakerProjecPad/

Veneered MDF/ply are another material option to get the natural wood finish while still benefiting from the stability of ply and MDF, which make those materials so popular for cheap and expensive speakers alike.

Lastly, if you're dead set on dovetails but a novice you've got an uphill climb ahead, so there I'd recommend checking out a series such as Matt Estlea's woodworker school. The very first project is for a dovetail box, which - if a couple of full range drivers were thrown in - would be a nice enough desk speaker

Example; video 2: marking out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cGG9wYv98Y

ED E · 09-08-2019 2:40pm

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Show me something you have made, then I can rate your advice. I'm not sure you arent full of crap yourself.

Wow, way to bite the hand that feeds. Some people...

CharlieZeroOne · 09-08-2019 5:14pm

Chillyspoon cheers bud. I will have a look at Matt Estlea's channel and thankyou for the recommedation, appreciate those links.
Would love to hear of more Irish / UK woodworker channels, going to go and have a search, might ask on woodworking.co.uk

Regarding facebook groups - large, popular groups like that tend to stage a takeover my timeline. Really all I have on my facebook timeline is music pages, that feed me music. I curate that timeline carefully!

recipio · 10-08-2019 11:46am

There is a reason that no one makes speakers out of solid wood - they shrink on drying out. That means a large crack down the middle or warping of the cabinet a few months after the project is finished.
If you want a walnut appearance then I would suggest you buy some veneer ( easily available online ) and learn how to do it.
You can of course buy pre veneered MDF but it takes skill to miter join a large box together and veneering a basic box is actually easier.
I know nothing about speaker acoustics but they are pieces of furniture and should look nice at least .:D

kadman · 14-08-2019 7:05am

/\/\/\/\/\/\

Ditto, what they all said.

For a basic woodworker skillset, dovetails are going to be a bridge too far,
as they are going to be the aesthetic element of any woodwork project.
Good looking dovetails are going to be the visual element, maybe above
the beauty of the wood used.

I think it would probably be easier to learn to veneer a box shape, rather than dovetail
it to perfection.
At the risk of using the crap word, poor dovetails look crap. Excellent dovetails are
probably the pinacle of a woodworkers skill level.

You are getting great advice from many knowledgeable folk, heed it and it will pay dividends

CharlieZeroOne · 14-08-2019 9:15am

Thank you Kadman, for explaining that, I didnt realise.
That would account for some of the resistance I've met. Appreciate your taking the time to point it out to me.

lgk · 14-08-2019 9:56am

Maybe try cutting a few dovetails on some cheaper wood. That will help you assess the results you can currently achieve versus what you want. Then practice, practice, practice...

kadman · 14-08-2019 10:07am

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Thank you Kadman, for explaining that, I didnt realise.
That would account for some of the resistance I've met. Appreciate your taking the time to point it out to me.

I would replace the word " resistance " with advice.

Its coming from guys that know what they are talking about, and realise the pitfalls a novice can run into.

Youtube vids look great for making dovetails, and it looks so easy because professionals are doing it for you. Its not that simple. It takes a combination of good craft skills, patience and good quality "SHARP" tools. Not the aldi/lidl throwaway tat.

The advice given is not to put you off doing it, its to make you best prepared for the job in hand.

Personally I would go the veneer route, using a stable sub strata such as birch cabinetmaking plywood.

Then you can veneer with a wide range of different exotic timbers, instead of investing in expensive plank form. And use different veneering patterns .

This route pushes your finished products up a notch,

2 cents

magicbastarder · 14-08-2019 10:07am

CharlieZeroOne wrote: »

Thank you Kadman, for explaining that, I didnt realise.
That would account for some of the resistance I've met. Appreciate your taking the time to point it out to me.

many people have tried explaining it to you; the issue was not their willingness or ability to explain, it was your willingness to listen.

CharlieZeroOne · 09-02-2022 2:04pm

Quite a few knob jockeys in this thread. I havnt started another thread on here since, for all the fools on this one. I notice some of them are deleted now. Nice one.

Solid wood speaker

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