Employer Criminal Background Check Ireland

GeneralInter · 05-03-2021 9:08pm #1

Hey everyone.

Apologies if this is not the right place.

I'm wondering if anyone can help me to definitively answer a question regarding the rights of employers and what information they have access to.

Can an employer in Ireland, or any other country, request proof of criminal history in Ireland, including any convictions for the purpose of employee screening in a situation where vulnerable adults or children are not involved?

I've investigated for the past couple of days and as far as I can tell, it's not legal to even request that information unless it is through the Garda Vetting service and it is specifically a job where vulnerable children or elderly etc are involved.

Secondly - The system for criminal background checks in the UK is such that an employer can easily request this same information from the Disclosure and Barring Service(DBS), but can a UK agency request the same information from the Garda vetting agency or even find that information somewhere else?

An employer can absolutely ask if a candidate has any previous convictions, but as far as I can tell, they have no legal way to verify it. Even if they ask the candidate to allow access or provide that information, it seems to be illegal to do so.

I would appreciate any information on this topic.

Thanks a lot!

Richmond Ultra · 05-03-2021 9:36pm

GeneralInter wrote: »

Hey everyone.

Apologies if this is not the right place.

I'm wondering if anyone can help me to definitively answer a question regarding the rights of employers and what information they have access to.

Can an employer in Ireland, or any other country, request proof of criminal history in Ireland, including any convictions for the purpose of employee screening in a situation where vulnerable adults or children are not involved?

I've investigated for the past couple of days and as far as I can tell, it's not legal to even request that information unless it is through the Garda Vetting service and it is specifically a job where vulnerable children or elderly etc are involved.

Secondly - The system for criminal background checks in the UK is such that an employer can easily request this same information from the Disclosure and Barring Service(DBS), but can a UK agency request the same information from the Garda vetting agency or even find that information somewhere else?

An employer can absolutely ask if a candidate has any previous convictions, but as far as I can tell, they have no legal way to verify it. Even if they ask the candidate to allow access or provide that information, it seems to be illegal to do so.

I would appreciate any information on this topic.

Thanks a lot!

Police certificate at a Garda Station?

GeneralInter · 05-03-2021 9:41pm

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

Police certificate at a Garda Station?

An employer can request a police certificate either from the candidate or themselves with permission?

Richmond Ultra · 05-03-2021 9:52pm

GeneralInter wrote: »

An employer can request a police certificate either from the candidate or themselves with permission?

https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/online-services/data-protection-foi-police-certificates/police-certificates.html

GeneralInter · 05-03-2021 10:18pm

Thanks I appreciate it but my questions are more about what can an employer request. As it says on that page it is issued for these reasons:

-foreign Consular authorities
-foreign Visas
-establishing a business in other EU States

But none of those are related to an employer in Ireland or even outside and that document has to be requested by the individual.

I'd really like to know what information can an employer ask regarding criminal background and how they could access that information.

Especially how this relates:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/7/section/4/enacted/en/html

Orobhsa · 06-03-2021 5:31pm

The NVB provides a vetting service beyond that required for positions involving children / vulnerable adults.

See Non-act section here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/garda_clearance_for_employees.html#ldae19

and

https://vetting.garda.ie/VettingProcedure/NonAct

GeneralInter · 07-03-2021 11:56am

Orobhsa wrote: »

The NVB provides a vetting service beyond that required for positions involving children / vulnerable adults.

See Non-act section here https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/garda_clearance_for_employees.html#ldae19

and

https://vetting.garda.ie/VettingProcedure/NonAct

Thanks Orobhsa. That to me looks like if you are applying to join the Gardai, courts or some other government department, you will be differently vetted.

I don't think it applies to regular employers, where no vulnerable people are present. I could be wrong though?

Dublin Lad2021 · 07-03-2021 8:38pm

I have been Garda vetted by a hospital I got a job at for example in administration positions with no direct access to patients, vulnerable people etc. this is standard and could be what's happening in your situation

Regarding can they ask for your permission to Garda vet you, if they have a license to Garda vet people it's very likely the company deals with vulnerable people or children in some way shape or form that you may not be aware of or the job falls under some of the other acts such as if you wish to work in the courts or have a role like being a bouncer or even being a cashier can be vetted due to access to money. I'm sure you can query it with the company however I'm not sure why you would decline being Garda Vetted unless you have something to hide, and I'm sure the company won't offer you the job if you refuse to be Vetted. Will you know you're being Garda Vetted? Yes they can't sneak it without your permission, you will be contacted by the Garda themselves to complete the form and provide more information. Any employer who Garda Vets people should confirm in their job advertisement that the successful candidate would need to be subject to background checks including Garda Vetting etc. and then remind the applicant of the background checks incase they over looked it

It's always best if you're leaving a country to get a certificate from the local police station confirming you don't have a criminal record for example.

Regarding the DBS checks no we don't have an equivalent here so this wouldn't be an issue if you have a DBS order against you, an Irish employer wouldn't be able to access this.

Hope that helps, not sure if it answers your question though

Danftant · 07-03-2021 8:43pm

So your saying you have a criminal record but don't want employer to find out

GeneralInter · 07-03-2021 8:52pm

Dublin Lad2021 wrote: »

I have been Garda vetted by a hospital I got a job at for example in administration positions with no direct access to patients, vulnerable people etc. this is standard and could be what's happening in your situation

Regarding can they ask for your permission to Garda vet you, if they have a license to Garda vet people it's very likely the company deals with vulnerable people or children in some way shape or form that you may not be aware of or the job falls under some of the other acts such as if you wish to work in the courts or have a role like being a bouncer or even being a cashier can be vetted due to access to money. I'm sure you can query it with the company however I'm not sure why you would decline being Garda Vetted unless you have something to hide, and I'm sure the company won't offer you the job if you refuse to be Vetted. Will you know you're being Garda Vetted? Yes they can't sneak it without your permission, you will be contacted by the Garda themselves to complete the form and provide more information. Any employer who Garda Vets people should confirm in their job advertisement that the successful candidate would need to be subject to background checks including Garda Vetting etc. and then remind the applicant of the background checks incase they over looked it

It's always best if you're leaving a country to get a certificate from the local police station confirming you don't have a criminal record for example.

Regarding the DBS checks no we don't have an equivalent here so this wouldn't be an issue if you have a DBS order against you, an Irish employer wouldn't be able to access this.

Hope that helps, not sure if it answers your question though

Very helpful, thanks a lot. I have gotten the answer though that an Irish employer could have access to public records where convictions may be found. I know that some local newspapers do publish lists of these but I'm not sure how that play into this situation.

Danftant wrote: »

So your saying you have a criminal record but don't want employer to find out

Oh no, I did have a conviction in the past but it has been spent so I wouldn't have to worry myself.

STB. · 07-03-2021 8:52pm

GeneralInter wrote: »

Can an employer in Ireland, or any other country, request proof of criminal history in Ireland, including any convictions for the purpose of employee screening in a situation where vulnerable adults or children are not involved?

I've investigated for the past couple of days and as far as I can tell, it's not legal to even request that information unless it is through the Garda Vetting service and it is specifically a job where vulnerable children or elderly etc are involved.

You think there is a distinction ?

How old is the conviction and is it a minor conviction ?

https://byrnewallace.com/news-and-recent-work/publications/spent-convictions-law-gives-employees-right-to-lie-about-minor-criminal-offences.html

shtpEdthePlum · 07-03-2021 9:02pm

The OP isn't asking about garda vetting, from my understanding. They're saying their employer, outside of the parameters of the Garda vetting system, has asked them if they have any previous convictions and wants them to corroborate this.

Sorry I can't be of any help OP but I'm interested to know this as well. No, I don't have a criminal record, I work for the state and get vetted annually. It just strikes me as an invasion of privacy. How does a weed possession charge when you were 20 affect your ability to operate a cash register at 30, for example.

STB. · 07-03-2021 9:17pm

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

The OP isn't asking about garda vetting, from my understanding. They're saying their employer, outside of the parameters of the Garda vetting system, has asked them if they have any previous convictions and wants them to corroborate this.

Sorry I can't be of any help OP but I'm interested to know this as well. No, I don't have a criminal record, I work for the state and get vetted annually. It just strikes me as an invasion of privacy. How does a weed possession charge when you were 20 affect your ability to operate a cash register at 30, for example.

They have the right to lie if its a minor conviction from 7 years previous under the The Criminal Justice (Spent Convictions and Certain Disclosures) Act 2016.

GeneralInter · 07-03-2021 9:20pm

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

The OP isn't asking about garda vetting, from my understanding. They're saying their employer, outside of the parameters of the Garda vetting system, has asked them if they have any previous convictions and wants them to corroborate this.

Sorry I can't be of any help OP but I'm interested to know this as well. No, I don't have a criminal record, I work for the state and get vetted annually. It just strikes me as an invasion of privacy. How does a weed possession charge when you were 20 affect your ability to operate a cash register at 30, for example.

It's all good, I appreciate the interest!

You're right, I'm not asking about garda vetting. It's exactly that if an employer asks if you have any convictions, and you do(that aren't spent) how would they be able to find out for sure? Does a local newspaper with lists of convictions count in that case.

As far as I can tell, it's not legal for an employer to request that kind of information from you, but if they can find it in the public domain would that be likely or enough.

Mrs OBumble · 07-03-2021 10:41pm

GeneralInter wrote: »

As far as I can tell, it's not legal for an employer to request that kind of information from you, but if they can find it in the public domain would that be likely or enough.

It's legal for them to ask if you have convictions, provided that question is relevant to the job. (Eg the job requires you to be trustworthy. Someone with a background of convictions for theft, isn't.)

It's not legal for them to request an Irish police certificate to prove what you say.

But if you lie, and they find out later, than can fire you pretty much immediately for having lied.

GeneralInter · 07-03-2021 11:22pm

I totally agree. I'm interested now in finding out about where previous criminal history information can be gathered since it can't be gathered from an official source in that situation.

I can't find any website that would provide access to that kind of public domain information.

GeneralInter · 07-03-2021 11:26pm

STB. wrote: »

You think there is a distinction ?

How old is the conviction and is it a minor conviction ?

https://byrnewallace.com/news-and-recent-work/publications/spent-convictions-law-gives-employees-right-to-lie-about-minor-criminal-offences.html

Apologies for not responding! There is a difference between not having to disclose spent convictions due to the 2016 Act and an employer not being able to request access to any history held by an authorised data controller which is described here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2018/act/7/section/4/enacted/en/html

If that's what you meant by a distinction

robman60 · 08-03-2021 10:47pm

There is no way for them to corroborate as you have identified.

Asking for you to do an FOI request for your criminal history is also a criminal offence. The vetting system is designed to only be used where children or vulnerable people could be harmed - it is not for other employers hence no way to corroborate your declaration.

Note that a conviction which is spent in Ireland can still show up on a Police Certificate, as the 7 year rule does not apply for those.

Employer Criminal Background Check Ireland

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