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07-11-2018, 08:59   #16
Anthonylfc
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have contacted the tenant and to be honest he is cool with an increase as he knows he paying wayyyy less that market average ( its a 4 bed ) other 3 beds in the area are between 1550-1650 and he is paying me 1050

we actually have a great relationship in that regard , and he looks after the place

to point out , he's over 7 years in the house and ive never raised the rent , what he is paying now is what he paid from day 1

new gas boiler was fitted last year and he never asked a penny , other small stuff he's never asked a penny

he called me yesterday to say his intention is to eventually buy the house off me and he knows its below market value and for me to just go easy on him with the increase

and we havnt actually got a contract etc , but will be drawing one up asap
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07-11-2018, 09:14   #17
pc7
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Still do it all by the book, letter (use the template), 90 days notice, stick to the amount the calculator shows you. Peoples circumstances can change, you are a business not a friend (while its great to have a good relationship). With all the interference in the market currently just do it all by the book.
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07-11-2018, 10:07   #18
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Do not give a contract...if you do they have more rights and if you need to sell they are allowed to stay and you have a sitting tenant. Leave as is. You will be devaluing your property as when you go to sell only those with cash will be able to afford it as banks want vacant possession.

If you do decide to give a contract make sure there is a breakout clause that the landlord can use the residential tenancies act notices to leave. Put in a page with the part 4 notices as on the rtb website.

They are still in a part4 cycle with a year left.
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07-11-2018, 10:13   #19
tvjunki
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Still do it all by the book, letter (use the template), 90 days notice, stick to the amount the calculator shows you. Peoples circumstances can change, you are a business not a friend (while its great to have a good relationship). With all the interference in the market currently just do it all by the book.
Agreed.
If you charge more than the allowance your lovely tenant could go to rtb and after years of paying over the amount can claim over charging and you will have to pay compensation which will be large and pay back the allowed amount.

If you see so many of us have different understanding of the law.

I would check this all with citizens information as a back up and they will check with rtb.
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07-11-2018, 15:20   #20
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Bear in ind that you are restricted to 2% per annum increase for teh first increase in respect of an existing tenancy that was in being before the RPZ legislaiton came in. 4% per annum allowed after the increase.

If you wait until the tenancy rolls over, or perhaps indicated to the tenants that you don't want to commence a new part IV tenancy, you oculd increase by 4% per annum since the last rent was set. As set out below:


R x (1 + 0.04 x t/m)

€1050 x ( 1 + 0.04 * 88/12) = €1358.00


You have lost out by not increasing the rent before or immediately after teh RPZ legislaiton came in and by not increasing it each year. That loss will carry forward as long as the RPZ remains in being. It may also impact the price you would get if you sold the house, though it sounds like a house that could sell to an owner occupier rather than an investor so it might not have too much of an impact.

Any generousity towards your current tenants will follow the house to all future tenants while the RPZ system is in place. So you cannot be nice/generous to your current tenants without that generousity also applying to all future tenants.

you are well behind market rent, if i were you i would be raising by as much as the legislation permits. If the current tenancy is close to expiring (and it probably is) I would consider either not starting a new Part IV with these tenancts or increasing to the maximum (using the formula above) on the rollover of part IV.
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07-11-2018, 16:02   #21
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what if the house isn't registered with the prtb ???

or no contract
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07-11-2018, 16:29   #22
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Originally Posted by tvjunki
Next thing is once you have increase the rent keep increasing the rent as your property will devalue if the rents do not keep up with market rents.

Why is this?
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07-11-2018, 16:33   #23
amcalester
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Why is this?
Future owners are bound by the current below market rent making the house less attractive to prospective investment buyers.
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07-11-2018, 16:34   #24
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what if the house isn't registered with the prtb ???

or no contract
the legislation over-rides any contract anyway, so lack of a contract does not matter. OP could contract for 2,500 per month, and it does not over-ride the RPZ pricing restrictions - even where both landlord and tenant are happy with the contracted rate. 1 year after agreeing a contract, the RTB could overturn the rent increase and leave landlord out of pocket.

Registration with the RTB is required and should happen. Even if not registered, the legislation still applies, and the RPZ calculations and requirements for a formal rent review process still apply.

There's just no wriggle room, even where a landlord and tenant agree otherwise.
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07-11-2018, 17:38   #25
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Honestly OP if market rate is between 16-1700 per month. I would consider doing substantial work to the property to get it up to market rate. In the past I wouldn’t have increased rent for long term tenants if they were hassle free knowing that I could charge whatever I want after they leave. The fact the government are constantly changing rules, the last thing you want is to be snookered when they eventually do leave. After talking to some ea. This RPZ directly affects resale value as well so protect your own interests.

Even if you increased to 1200. That’s an opportunity cost of an extra 6k per annum. That’s some serious cash that can’t be ignored. If you did work. With that difference. You could easily recoup it.
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07-11-2018, 23:53   #26
tvjunki
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Bear in ind that you are restricted to 2% per annum increase for teh first increase in respect of an existing tenancy that was in being before the RPZ legislaiton came in. 4% per annum allowed after the increase.

If you wait until the tenancy rolls over, or perhaps indicated to the tenants that you don't want to commence a new part IV tenancy, you oculd increase by 4% per annum since the last rent was set. As set out below:


R x (1 + 0.04 x t/m)

€1050 x ( 1 + 0.04 * 88/12) = €1358.00


You have lost out by not increasing the rent before or immediately after teh RPZ legislaiton came in and by not increasing it each year. That loss will carry forward as long as the RPZ remains in being. It may also impact the price you would get if you sold the house, though it sounds like a house that could sell to an owner occupier rather than an investor so it might not have too much of an impact.

Any generousity towards your current tenants will follow the house to all future tenants while the RPZ system is in place. So you cannot be nice/generous to your current tenants without that generousity also applying to all future tenants.

you are well behind market rent, if i were you i would be raising by as much as the legislation permits. If the current tenancy is close to expiring (and it probably is) I would consider either not starting a new Part IV with these tenancts or increasing to the maximum (using the formula above) on the rollover of part IV.
As op have a lease in place before 2016 they have to put 24 in the formula then after that can put 12 in for yearly review. This is an existing tenancy not a new one after Dec 2016.
You set this for 2years then review yearly.
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08-11-2018, 01:03   #27
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have contacted the tenant and to be honest he is cool with an increase as he knows he paying wayyyy less that market average ( its a 4 bed ) other 3 beds in the area are between 1550-1650 and he is paying me 1050

we actually have a great relationship in that regard , and he looks after the place

to point out , he's over 7 years in the house and ive never raised the rent , what he is paying now is what he paid from day 1

new gas boiler was fitted last year and he never asked a penny , other small stuff he's never asked a penny

he called me yesterday to say his intention is to eventually buy the house off me and he knows its below market value and for me to just go easy on him with the increase

and we havnt actually got a contract etc , but will be drawing one up asap

What? the ? he called you, letting you know his intention to buy off you?? at this point, you might be able to use that to keep goodwill, but you are under no obligation to sell to him, but if you let them stay another year, it looks like they will be entitled to a 6 year tenancy, Im not sure how that works, I thought 6 year tenancy was already in place and Im not sure what the situation is now regarding selling up and ending a tenancy. If your post quoted below is accurate, it could be tricky for you, Ive known tenants who were nice when it suited them, what happens if you dont want to sell to this guy and he decides to not be nice, I guess if its not registered you could register it now and thats a starting point. Id a tenant who told me the same thing and I thought it was some cheek, Id follow the advice of posters here and seek some advice as advised, this all shows that being friendly and not treating it as a business can bring difficulty to the landlord.
I was friendly myself, I actually think it would be better to not be even friendly, just blank, I think that can be difficult as a landlord of a one off let.
This shows to me at least that its not possible to give preferential rates to tenants by landlords compared to what they can achieve as you can be screwed for it (namely by the passing on of the letting rate to new tenants and to new purchasers), no matter how nice you are.

Best advice here, other than get advice, do a complete renovation and get market rate, dont know where you stand if you're not rtb registered.


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what if the house isn't registered with the prtb ??? or no contract
You need to be, aside from being the law, stops anyone messing you about, and hanging you out to dry.
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08-11-2018, 09:03   #28
Anthonylfc
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from day one he said he wanted to eventually buy the house

i mean if he doesnt like my increase can't i just serve him with notice to end tenancy and then re-let to him at diff price etc ??

( i'm not and wouldn't do that to the chap ) just seeing if that would be allowed or prohibited etc
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08-11-2018, 09:11   #29
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from day one he said he wanted to eventually buy the house

i mean if he doesnt like my increase can't i just serve him with notice to end tenancy and then re-let to him at diff price etc ??

( i'm not and wouldn't do that to the chap ) just seeing if that would be allowed or prohibited etc
No, you can't re-let it to him (or anyone else) at a rent of your choosing.

The max rent you can charge is that churned out by the formula, circa €1200.

Do you want to sell to him? It's a bit like me telling a taxi driver I'm going to buy his car off him at the end of the journey, not really my decision.
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08-11-2018, 12:05   #30
Anthonylfc
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No, you can't re-let it to him (or anyone else) at a rent of your choosing.

The max rent you can charge is that churned out by the formula, circa €1200.

Do you want to sell to him? It's a bit like me telling a taxi driver I'm going to buy his car off him at the end of the journey, not really my decision.
yep , just want the value to match what i owe and i'll cut the noose around my neck , im not an invester hoping to make money from rent

my circumstances changed when i lived in it so i decided to rent it out and pay for itself
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